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Thick PCB

juberset
 

How thick can you make a PCB ?

I want to use one for mechanical strength as well as
electrical wiring.

Jim Ubersetzig
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sam_jiangs
 

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Sam Jiang
Re: Thick PCB

 

At 04:58 PM 2/20/02 +0000, juberset wrote:

How thick can you make a PCB ?

I want to use one for mechanical strength as well as
electrical wiring.
We routinely get PCBs made 1/8" thick (by a production house) for that very purpose. Its not cheap - they cost 3 or 4 times the cost of a standard 1/16" board. But the customer wanted it that way and paid for it. So - no problem!

dwayne


Dwayne Reid <dwayner@...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
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Re: Thick PCB

[email protected]
 

In a message dated 20-Feb-02 11:00:13 Central Standard Time,
jim.ubersetzig@... writes:


How thick can you make a PCB ?

Jim: I haven't "looked ahead" to see if someone with more cerebral mass has
already more intelligently answered, already, but here's MY 2? "hobby
experience" worth toward this question:

"FR-4", the Fire Retardent green epoxy-glass presently more common than the
previously-popular G-10 "same thing" comes in 1/64" through 1/8" thick
versions with NO copper at all, copper only on ONE side, copper on BOTH
sides, 1/2, 1.0, and 2.0 oz. "weights) (the copper-thickness; I never learned
how thick an "ounce" is!). The 1/8" is plenty tough! But if you needed
something as thick as 1/4", to drive Sherman tanks across (that'd mess up the
nicest solder-masks and PTH!!!), I THINK you would have to do one of TWO
things: Order some SPECIAL-made, or find who may have already done so, and
still has some on hand, he's willing to sell, or two, GLUE-UP some, putting
non-copper-sides together. I have never learned the howzits of multi-layer
PCB-makin', but in that, layers are heat-laminated in a 'spensive press, once
the inner-layers of copper are etched. Drilling is last. Whew, a 'spensive
mess!

Anyway, the PRESS for glueing that up to make thicker (multi-layer) boards is
not only expensive, but incredibly powerful in terms of PSI on the laminate,
and I THINK they can also heat the layup. Find a jovial PCB firm near yoy
and go hassle 'em!

Jan Rowland, old troll


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Thick PCB

caveteursus
 

If you have to do it yourself, you can laminate two boards with epoxy
resin -- won't be fireproof anymore, however.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., JanRwl@A... wrote:
In a message dated 20-Feb-02 11:00:13 Central Standard Time,
jim.ubersetzig@l... writes:


How thick can you make a PCB ?

Jim: I haven't "looked ahead" to see if someone with more cerebral
mass has
already more intelligently answered, already, but here's MY
2? "hobby
experience" worth toward this question:

"FR-4", the Fire Retardent green epoxy-glass presently more common
than the
previously-popular G-10 "same thing" comes in 1/64" through 1/8"
thick
versions with NO copper at all, copper only on ONE side, copper on
BOTH
sides, 1/2, 1.0, and 2.0 oz. "weights) (the copper-thickness; I
never learned
how thick an "ounce" is!). The 1/8" is plenty tough! But if you
needed
something as thick as 1/4", to drive Sherman tanks across (that'd
mess up the
nicest solder-masks and PTH!!!), I THINK you would have to do one
of TWO
things: Order some SPECIAL-made, or find who may have already
done so, and
still has some on hand, he's willing to sell, or two, GLUE-UP some,
putting
non-copper-sides together. I have never learned the howzits of
multi-layer
PCB-makin', but in that, layers are heat-laminated in a 'spensive
press, once
the inner-layers of copper are etched. Drilling is last. Whew,
a 'spensive
mess!

Anyway, the PRESS for glueing that up to make thicker (multi-layer)
boards is
not only expensive, but incredibly powerful in terms of PSI on the
laminate,
and I THINK they can also heat the layup. Find a jovial PCB firm
near yoy
and go hassle 'em!

Jan Rowland, old troll


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: How I make Pcbs

High Tech
 

This was bounced back so I am posting it here.


Sean
I actually purchased my tank at Circuit Specialists.
Here is the spec sheet on it.

As you can see it uses a standard fish tank heater and pump. The air is
pumped into the side at the top and it travels down the side to small holes
in the bottom its that simple.
You just want gentle agitation of the ferric chloride. Pick up the FeCl at
any radio shack. The heater need to be set till the tank is warm to the
touch. It takes only about 3-5 mins to etch the board. Use gloves and other
safety equipment.
Hope this helps
Derek

-----Original Message-----
From: duzallcnc [mailto:duzallcnc1@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 2:29 AM
To: High Tech
Subject: Re: How I make Pcbs


Hi Derek,
I made a tank like you described with a heater. while I was at the
store buying the heater I wondered about the pump. Is there a
particular arraingement for the output? Can you give detials of your
solder tank and its operation.
Thanks
Sean




- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "High Tech" <hightechsystems@a...> wrote:
Hi everyone
I thought I might share how I have been making circuit boards for
years.
I have made 1000's of boards using a method that some do not like
but I have
had excellent results with. First I design the board on my computer
using an
old program that runs in dos but is very easy to use.
I then print this out on my HP970 ink jet and make multiple copies
of the
board.
Then I use the blue sheets from Techniks Inc. using a copier to lay
the
final trace to the blue sheet.
Iron on the copper board using a setting on my iron of 3 yours
might very,
for 1min. till the traces can be seen through the back of the blue
sheet.
Use little pressure let the iron do the work if traces are smearing
or
spreading then the heat is too high or your applying too much
pressure.
You then peel the blue sheet off when it barely warm not yet cold.
If you
have a bad trace such as a cross over this can be corrected very
easily by
using a dental tool to scrape off the connected traces.

After that I just put it in the tank that has a heater and aquarium
pump
3min. and you have a board.
I dip my finished boards in a solder tank to coat the traces never
had a bad
board.
My boards are used on lots of equipment you don't need fancy
lettering or
green coating, my boards are put in a box and never seen. They have
been
working for 7years on equipment so I must be doing it right.
There are other things I do to protect the trace such as electrical
coating
etc.
Hope this helps some out there get started.
Derek B.
High-Tech Systems
Re: ultrasonic cleaners

[email protected]
 

Jon:

Here are some various electronic links. Perhaps one or more will be of
interest/use to you. I realize Radio Shack is a Yank firm, but I have seen
them there in smaller towns outside London, so perhaps there is one near you.
The ones here, at least, carry "basic" books, and if you can find one with a
helpful/friendly staffer, you might become a PhD in a week!

Regards, and good luck! Jan Rowland, Old Ugly Yank with attitude.

<A href="aol://5863:126/mB:197359">Electronic Projects</A>
<A href=">Electronics</A>
<A href=">Don Lancaster's GURU'S LAIR home page</A>
<A href=">Diana's Electronics Info Page</A>
<A href=">555 tutorial</A>
<A href=">HowStuffWorks - Learn how Everything Works!</A>
ultrasonic cleaners

J Mitchell
 

Hi,

I have been lurking on this list for ages, as I want to learn more about electronics (especially interfacing pic chips to the real world), but as of yet I am still learning and mostly confused! :o)

Although I can assemble small project PCBs and roughly understand how they work, my understanding of why "that" resistor is "there" is next to zero.

I have a couple of questions for the group.

1. are there any good basic electronic foundation tutorials on the net? all the ones I find are too basic (like what a resistor is)

2. Anyone here have any experience of ultrasonic cleaning baths? I have the schematic for the electrical side, with an explanation of many of the components, but I have no idea what specific components to use, anyone interested in looking at the schematic, helping me make one of these and furthering my electrical experience and understanding?

thanks in advance

Jon

PS: Anyone here ever known someone to buy one of the cheap (under $300) fibrescopes? (also known as a borescope or endoscope)... I would love one of these, but I suspect they are trash.
Re: ultrasonic cleaners

 

Some good places to look for links to tutorials:



A good place for links and to ask for help learning
electronics:


The ultrasonic cleaner schematics should have part
numbers for the transistors. I'd suggest going to the
Electronics_101 list, post the schematic to the files
section and ask for help there. I'm on that list also,
there are over 1000 members.

Steve Greenfield

--- J Mitchell <jonster_man@...> wrote:
Hi,

I have been lurking on this list for ages, as I want
to learn more about electronics (especially
interfacing pic chips to the real world), but as of
yet I am still learning and mostly confused! :o)

Although I can assemble small project PCBs and
roughly understand how they work, my understanding
of why "that" resistor is "there" is next to zero.

I have a couple of questions for the group.

1. are there any good basic electronic foundation
tutorials on the net? all the ones I find are too
basic (like what a resistor is)

2. Anyone here have any experience of ultrasonic
cleaning baths? I have the schematic for the
electrical side, with an explanation of many of the
components, but I have no idea what specific
components to use, anyone interested in looking at
the schematic, helping me make one of these and
furthering my electrical experience and
understanding?

thanks in advance

Jon

PS: Anyone here ever known someone to buy one of
the cheap (under $300) fibrescopes? (also known as a
borescope or endoscope)... I would love one of
these, but I suspect they are trash.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
Re: ultrasonic cleaners

J Mitchell
 

Thanks, checking it out now!

No part numbers on the schematic :o( but its a very simple looking circuit.... will try the 101 group.

jon

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Greenfield
To: Homebrew_PCBs@...
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] ultrasonic cleaners


Some good places to look for links to tutorials:



A good place for links and to ask for help learning
electronics:


The ultrasonic cleaner schematics should have part
numbers for the transistors. I'd suggest going to the
Electronics_101 list, post the schematic to the files
section and ask for help there. I'm on that list also,
there are over 1000 members.

Steve Greenfield

--- J Mitchell <jonster_man@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been lurking on this list for ages, as I want
> to learn more about electronics (especially
> interfacing pic chips to the real world), but as of
> yet I am still learning and mostly confused! :o)
>
> Although I can assemble small project PCBs and
> roughly understand how they work, my understanding
> of why "that" resistor is "there" is next to zero.
>
> I have a couple of questions for the group.
>
> 1. are there any good basic electronic foundation
> tutorials on the net? all the ones I find are too
> basic (like what a resistor is)
>
> 2. Anyone here have any experience of ultrasonic
> cleaning baths? I have the schematic for the
> electrical side, with an explanation of many of the
> components, but I have no idea what specific
> components to use, anyone interested in looking at
> the schematic, helping me make one of these and
> furthering my electrical experience and
> understanding?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Jon
>
> PS: Anyone here ever known someone to buy one of
> the cheap (under $300) fibrescopes? (also known as a
> borescope or endoscope)... I would love one of
> these, but I suspect they are trash.


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games


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Printing, just printing PCB layouts

caveteursus
 

I was wondering if anyone had a better way of "printing" PCB outlines
for reproduction.

I use Ultiboard as my design, routing program. It allows saving the
document to Adobe through Distiller. When I open the document (in
Acrobat) and magnify it, however, it looks as if the doc has been
saved as a somewhat rough bit-mapped file. If I just print the
diagram to my laserjet, everything looks great.

For now, I have been fixing up the jaggies in a drawing program.
Time consuming.

Anyone have a better way -- scanning in hi-res produces too big a
file btw.
Re: Printing, just printing PCB layouts

 

At 05:43 PM 2/26/02 +0000, caveteursus wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had a better way of "printing" PCB outlines
for reproduction.

I use Ultiboard as my design, routing program. It allows saving the
document to Adobe through Distiller. When I open the document (in
Acrobat) and magnify it, however, it looks as if the doc has been
saved as a somewhat rough bit-mapped file. If I just print the
diagram to my laserjet, everything looks great.
PrintGL from Cary Ravitz. <>

dwayne


Dwayne Reid <dwayner@...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
Plated Thru Hole at Home

j_hallows
 

Other than using eyelets has anyone made Plated Thru Hole at Home and
can give some tips?
Re: Printing, just printing PCB layouts

Karlis
 

Maybe you are using incorrect settings for Distiller? IIRC there was
something about resolution (DPI).
KPL

I was wondering if anyone had a better way of "printing" PCB outlines
for reproduction.

I use Ultiboard as my design, routing program. It allows saving the
document to Adobe through Distiller. When I open the document (in
Acrobat) and magnify it, however, it looks as if the doc has been
saved as a somewhat rough bit-mapped file. If I just print the
diagram to my laserjet, everything looks great.

For now, I have been fixing up the jaggies in a drawing program.
Time consuming.

Anyone have a better way -- scanning in hi-res produces too big a
file btw.





To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to


Re: Printing, just printing PCB layouts

Dave Hylands
 

Maybe you are using incorrect settings for Distiller? IIRC there was
something about resolution (DPI).
KPL
Distiller does have a resolution setting, but this may not help you.

Distiller keeps vector objects in the PostScript as vector objects in the
PDF. It has the ability to resample raster objects, so if the underlying
image in the PostScript has more resolution, then you can improve things by
turning off resampling. Turn it off for all image types (under the
Compression Tab in Job Options). I would set Compression to ZIP, so that
you're using lossless compression.

Otherwise, the resolution setting is for PostScript that queries to
determine what raster resolution is being used. I would set it to a number
like 1200 or 2400, and only set it smaller if you're experiencing file
size/display speed issues.

In Acrobat, if you crank up the magnification and you see the pixels getting
bigger, then you're looking at raster objects. If the pixels stay at screen
resolution, then you're looking at vector objects.

Acrobat normally displays at around 75 dpi, so at the maximum zoom setting
of 1600%, you're one screen pixel corresponds to approximately 1200 dpi.

Most newer laser printers are 600 or 1200 dpi.

Dave Hylands
Re: Plated Thru Hole at Home

[email protected]
 

In a message dated 27-Feb-02 10:42:43 Central Standard Time,
j_hallows@... writes:


Other than using eyelets has anyone made Plated Thru Hole at Home and
can give some tips?

DITTO! I have OFTEN needed "onesy-twosey" PCB's with PTH, and have had to
use "jumper wires", eyelets, or have 'em made by the local PCB house for $450
each! Seems plating-through should be within the realm of us ol'
home-brewers who can make a double-sided board, if we just knew the steps,
and where to get the chemistry to plate the holes before etching.

You DO know, doncha, that the PTH is done FIRST, then "SOLDER-plating" of the
desired pattern (including through the holes!), and etch LAST, with chemistry
that will etch copper, but NOT "solder".

Someone TELL us how! GOOD topic!
Re: Plated Thru Hole at Home

 

At 10:43 PM 2/28/02 -0500, JanRwl@... wrote:
In a message dated 27-Feb-02 10:42:43 Central Standard Time,
j_hallows@... writes:


Other than using eyelets has anyone made Plated Thru Hole at Home and
can give some tips?
I use 2 methods:

'Track Pins' made by Harwin (UK, I think). We used to get them from Arrow/Bell but I don't know if they still have them.

These are a stick of tapered pins that you push into the hole, then snap off. Nice tight fit into a #66 hole. Quick, fast, reliable. Only down side is that they are good for vias only - they fill the hole so you can't put a component lead through.


Multicore makes a system called Copperset <>

This is a little stick of solid solder which has copper and tin electroplated over it. It is then scored at intervals slightly more than the average PCB thickness. You drill the via holes to the correct diameter, then insert the stick and snap off the vias one at at time. You then use an impact punch to squash the via - doing so causes the solid solder rod to expand the copper / tin coating so as to grip the sides of the hole in the PCB. Solder both sides of the via, then vacuum out the solder if you need to put a component lead in.

I have one and use if occasionally - it works well but is actually more work than the Harwin Track pins I mentioned earlier.

It works best if you use it before the board is populated - place the board on a smooth steel surface, insert the feed-through pins, then set them with the impact punch.

dwayne


Dwayne Reid <dwayner@...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
.-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-
`-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
Plated Thru-Holes

electronic_workshop
 

This link has a good description using conductive ink to actiavte the
holes and then plate on that.



I'm using eyelets.
Recently I got some eyelet samples form Mill-Max 0.037 OD and 0.024 ID

Any know of and smaller eyelets ?
Re: Plated Thru-Holes

j_hallows
 

Yes I read all these but does anyone have any experince?



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "electronic_workshop" <hans@c...> wrote:
This link has a good description using conductive ink to actiavte
the
holes and then plate on that.



I'm using eyelets.
Recently I got some eyelet samples form Mill-Max 0.037 OD and 0.024
ID

Any know of and smaller eyelets ?
Re: Plated Thru Hole at Home

j_hallows
 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., JanRwl@A... wrote:
each! Seems plating-through should be within the realm of us ol'
home-brewers who can make a double-sided board, if we just knew the
steps,
and where to get the chemistry to plate the holes before etching.
Could not agree more. I know the thoery but the practice it's a whole
different ball park.


You DO know, doncha, that the PTH is done FIRST, then "SOLDER-
plating" of the
desired pattern (including through the holes!), and etch LAST,
with chemistry that will etch copper, but NOT "solder".
Took me sometime to figure this one out. But it's not solder but
tinned. And the process is called pattern plating.

As a homebrewer it is too expensive for me to send boards out to
make. If I could only find out a simple way to make plated thru holes
at home without killing myself. And eyelets and baluns are too time
consuming.
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