开云体育

--- alienrelics <alienrelics@...> wrote:

Found a cool link- how to build a $20 hot air pen for soldering
surface mount!

Try this under "Soldering hints and tips":

Here's the Rat Shack $10 desoldering pen he mentions:

I'm off to Rat Shack!

Steve Greenfield

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Hi everyone.
Just found this group and I have been skimming through the posts.
I'm interested in building a CNC PCB mill/drill. Stepper motors,
linear bearings/rods, antibacklash nuts on Acme rod... and a Black
and Decker RTX. The resolution works out to 0.0005" per full step and
0.00025" if I half step.

Is 1/2 or 1/4 of a thousands a good resolution for this project?

Does anyone have links to similar projects?

Hints? Tips? Insight?

Thanks
mike

n4onl wrote:

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Russell Shaw <rjshaw@i...> wrote:

n4onl wrote:

Hints? Tips? Insight?

There's a home-brew cnc yahoo group: cad_cam_edm_dro.

I found this group from a post in CCED. I hoped I'd get info here
since Bill (list mom) might consider this Off Topic in that group.

That's how i found this group too;)

n4onl wrote:

Hi everyone.
Just found this group and I have been skimming through the posts.
I'm interested in building a CNC PCB mill/drill. Stepper motors,
linear bearings/rods, antibacklash nuts on Acme rod... and a Black
and Decker RTX. The resolution works out to 0.0005" per full step and
0.00025" if I half step.

Is 1/2 or 1/4 of a thousands a good resolution for this project?

Does anyone have links to similar projects?

Hints? Tips? Insight?

There's a home-brew cnc yahoo group: cad_cam_edm_dro.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Russell Shaw <rjshaw@i...> wrote:

n4onl wrote:

Hi everyone.
Just found this group and I have been skimming through the posts.
I'm interested in building a CNC PCB mill/drill. Stepper motors,
linear bearings/rods, antibacklash nuts on Acme rod... and a Black
and Decker RTX. The resolution works out to 0.0005" per full step

and

0.00025" if I half step.

Is 1/2 or 1/4 of a thousands a good resolution for this project?

Does anyone have links to similar projects?

Hints? Tips? Insight?

There's a home-brew cnc yahoo group: cad_cam_edm_dro.

I found this group from a post in CCED. I hoped I'd get info here
since Bill (list mom) might consider this Off Topic in that group.

Thanks
mike

No, your question would not be considered off topic on the
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO group. It directly deals with the design and building of
a hobby CNC machine.

No direct experience with anti-backlash acme screws or a machine based
on linear bearings and rods, but I have done some PCB drilling on my
Shoptask and on my Bridgeport. My resolution was on the Shoptask at the
time was .00025" and that worked out just fine. I would actually venture
a guess that you could get by with resolution in the .0005" - .001"
range. For the spindle I am a big fan of using a collet style Foredom
flexshaft hand piece. This lets you mount the motor remotely so you have
a small light spindle on the machine and gives you a spindle speed of
15,000 - 20,000 RPM depending upon the motor and handpiece you use. It
worked well for me when I used one in my Shoptask. I am now using a
Precise 40,000 RPM spindle in the Bridgeport and that works even better,
but can be a little spendy.

Tim
[Denver, CO]
Back-up CAD_CAM list mom

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "Tim Goldstein" <timg@k...> wrote:

No, your question would not be considered off topic on the
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO group. It directly deals with the design and

building of

a hobby CNC machine.

Thanks Tim, thats good to know.

No direct experience with anti-backlash acme screws or a machine

based

on linear bearings and rods, but I have done some PCB drilling on my
Shoptask and on my Bridgeport. My resolution was on the Shoptask at

the

time was .00025" and that worked out just fine. I would actually

venture

a guess that you could get by with resolution in the .0005" - .001"
range.

I've been doing some searching (see links below) and although I
havent yet found many Hobby PCB Routing/Drilling sites but the
commercial ones gave me some needed info. One unit that sells for
$6k+ uses 0.00025" resolution and says MIT, NASA, ATT... use their
products. With that in mind I agree that 0.0005" to 0.001" resolution
would be fine for hobby use. I'll probably start using the Gecko 201
drives I bought from you (10 microstep, info for others) and then use
it to make my own Drivers (probably L298 based) for this unit. It
will probably double as an engraver. Something else to play with. :)

I've also been emailng with Alan Marconett KM6VV whos also a member
of both groups.

For the spindle I am a big fan of using a collet style Foredom
flexshaft hand piece. This lets you mount the motor remotely so you

have

a small light spindle on the machine and gives you a spindle speed

of

15,000 - 20,000 RPM depending upon the motor and handpiece you use.

It

worked well for me when I used one in my Shoptask. I am now using a
Precise 40,000 RPM spindle in the Bridgeport and that works even

better,

but can be a little spendy.

Tim
[Denver, CO]
Back-up CAD_CAM list mom

This is more of a For The Fun Of It Project and won't see a lot of
use so i'll be sticking to the RTX. But I agree that for frequent use
and greater speed the Foredom Flexshaft would be a much better option.

This project is also to get some Hands On experience with CNC,
Stepper Motors, Linear Motion, CAM Software... before I build my CNC
router, which is the reason I bought the Gecko's.

Thanks
mike








Links at bottom for more

Hi,
You can mill circuit boards using a homemade machine and
a Dremel type tool. I use a Dremel set on number 3. My feed
rate is 6" per minute. I have a picture at:



Of a board milled by my machine.

Any Questions, I will answer here in this conference.


John

At 16:53 01/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

You can mill circuit boards using a homemade machine and
a Dremel type tool. I use a Dremel set on number 3. My feed
rate is 6" per minute. I have a picture at:



Of a board milled by my machine.

Any Questions, I will answer here in this conference.

...and I see you are still charging $18 for your thin little booklet too.

To potential purchasers of this booklet...as far as I can tell from having paid $18 to read it, it doesn't say anything that isn't already available for free in the archives of this group, or via the various other links that members of this group have posted.

Regards,
Tony

Tony,
You should also say the $18 included shipping and handling
to your country. You left out your shipping but I still shipped.
One year has passed. I have designed several more cheap CNC
machines for hobbiests. Have you finished your book on milling
circuit boards? A year is a long time!

John



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:

At 16:53 01/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

You can mill circuit boards using a homemade machine and
a Dremel type tool. I use a Dremel set on number 3. My feed
rate is 6" per minute. I have a picture at:



Of a board milled by my machine.

Any Questions, I will answer here in this conference.

...and I see you are still charging $18 for your thin little

booklet too.

To potential purchasers of this booklet...as far as I can tell from

having

paid $18 to read it, it doesn't say anything that isn't already

available

for free in the archives of this group, or via the various other

links that

members of this group have posted.

Regards,
Tony

Now, let's not all get cranky. No pun intended. Well, OK, pun
intended.

Moderator

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Many peole have built my stepper motor drivers. I posted all
schematics and artwork for free...

Best Regards
Hans W

At 17:54 01/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

Tony,
You should also say the $18 included shipping and handling
to your country. You left out your shipping but I still shipped.

You're right, and my heart bleeds for you. However, even subtracting the shipping, it was an expensive way of buying 15 sheets of paper - and at least if they'd been blank sheets I could have re-used them...

One year has passed. I have designed several more cheap CNC
machines for hobbiests. Have you finished your book on milling
circuit boards?

No, but in the intervening year I have added more *free* articles to my own website, on other topics. Work on other stuff has gotten in the way of paying serious attention to PCB milling, but it is still on the list.

And by the way, for the benefit of other visitors to John's website, before you pay $35 for his plans of a 4th axis constructed out of "Two gears, a floppy drive stepping motor and some PVC" (to quote John' own words), check out:



which describes how to construct a CNC 4th axis that, unlike John's design, is actually usable for light milling of materials harder than soft wax or wood - I have successfully used it to machine items in brass and steel, for example.

A year is a long time!

You're right...and a year on, $18 for sweet FA is still way too much.

Regards,
Tony

Tony,
Learn to read! $20 not $35. My 4th axis "Pooka" can be built
with hand tools. To build your designs a person needs a machine
shop. Lets face it your designs are nothing new. You must own a
bunch of old mags that you steal from. My designs are innovative
and fun! Keep putting up free stuff, because nobody is going
to pay you for something they can buy cheaper. Get a life!

Where is the moderator! My first message and this guy shows
up!


John



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:

At 17:54 01/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

Tony,
You should also say the $18 included shipping and handling
to your country. You left out your shipping but I still shipped.

You're right, and my heart bleeds for you. However, even

subtracting the

shipping, it was an expensive way of buying 15 sheets of paper -

and at

least if they'd been blank sheets I could have re-used them...

One year has passed. I have designed several more cheap CNC
machines for hobbiests. Have you finished your book on milling
circuit boards?

No, but in the intervening year I have added more *free* articles

to my own

website, on other topics. Work on other stuff has gotten in the way

of

paying serious attention to PCB milling, but it is still on the

list.

And by the way, for the benefit of other visitors to John's

website, before

you pay $35 for his plans of a 4th axis constructed out of "Two

gears, a

floppy drive stepping motor and some PVC" (to quote John' own

words), check

out:



which describes how to construct a CNC 4th axis that, unlike John's

design,

is actually usable for light milling of materials harder than soft

wax or

wood - I have successfully used it to machine items in brass and

steel, for

example.

A year is a long time!

You're right...and a year on, $18 for sweet FA is still way too

much.

Regards,
Tony

John, let comments like his roll off your back like water off a
duck. Don't return insult for insult, either of you.

I like John's principles- use good-enough parts so you don't spend
a fortune. Not everyone -needs- to machine steel, me for instance.
I'm also one of those people who does not have a machine shop,
who's current milling machine is a drill press and clamps and who's
lathe is currently just a wood lathe.

Steve, the moderator

--- crankorgan <john@...> wrote:
-snip-

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:

-snip-

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Steve -

It is unfortunate that this has ended up as a slanging match, and I apologize for my part in that.

My intention, when I saw what looked like a pretty blatant piece of product marketing on John's part (pointing the members of this eGroup at his web page offering his booklet for sale), was to point out that the product might not live up to expectations as to value-for-money (as it most definitely had not, in my case).

I believe that if you put stuff up for sale, you'd better be prepared to defend how much you charge for it.

Regards,
Tony

My concern was that it was becoming personal.

Tony, your website looks like you are pretty advanced. Is it
possible that John's paper is aimed more at the beginner? Reviews
are most definitely on topic but keep in mind that a reasoned
explanation is a lot more useful than a slam.

Posting your On Topic website, commercial or not is allowed here
but only if you stay around to answer questions. John is obviously
staying to take part, as are you.

I was sent a 5.25 inch disk, Commodore formatted, that contains a
Basic program for a Commodore PET computer. It is for milling and
drilling PCBs. That is his machine in the Files section. I have a
C128 in the basement that I'm going to try and read it with. I'm
not going to set up a PET, don't have one, but I'm looking forward
to picking over the code and seeing how he did it.

Otherwise I'm thinking of tearing apart an HP pen plotter. Use the
electronics with beefed up stepper drivers and drive a homebuilt
engraver. Then I could just use a vector drawing program like
CorelDraw, Illustrator, etc. to drive it with HPGL driver.

Has anyone here bought and maybe built one of John Nachbaur's
plans?

Steve Greenfield

--- Tony Jeffree <tony@...> wrote:

Steve -

It is unfortunate that this has ended up as a slanging match, and
I
apologize for my part in that.

My intention, when I saw what looked like a pretty blatant piece
of product
marketing on John's part (pointing the members of this eGroup at
his web
page offering his booklet for sale), was to point out that the
product
might not live up to expectations as to value-for-money (as it
most
definitely had not, in my case).

I believe that if you put stuff up for sale, you'd better be
prepared to
defend how much you charge for it.

Regards,
Tony



At 13:20 01/04/2002 -0800, you wrote:

John, let comments like his roll off your back like water off a
duck. Don't return insult for insult, either of you.

I like John's principles- use good-enough parts so you don't

spend

a fortune. Not everyone -needs- to machine steel, me for

instance.

I'm also one of those people who does not have a machine shop,
who's current milling machine is a drill press and clamps and

who's

lathe is currently just a wood lathe.

Steve, the moderator

--- crankorgan <john@...> wrote:
-snip-

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:

-snip-

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Steve,
Don't take the plotter apart until you look at:




Also, hooking up a Dremel or other tool to a Plotter
has a drawback. Pen-up and pen-down signals are too fast. If
you use a dashpot to slow the solenoid, the X Y will start moving
before the Dremel is down all the way. A plotter can make really
nice boards. It is possible to gut a plotter and drive it using
GCode files. Then using the Z axis movement you can get the timing
right.

John

Good point about speed of pen-up and -down. Oops, you're
Kleinbauer. I know a Nachbauer who makes Theremins, hence my
mistake.

I did try a Staedler 313 (Red) pen, just discovered I already had
one. I was etching some boards I'd made with a vinyl cutter and so
I drew onto a bare area with the Staedler 313 and some permanent
pens, the kind they sell at Radio Shack remarked as "Etch Resist".
IE, laundry marking pens.

My acid (Ammonium Persulfate(sp?)) was weak so it took a long time
to etch. The laundry marking pen started out with a few breaks, and
ended up pretty bad. The Staedler 313 was nearly perfect. That was
just me drawing it, I'd expect better from a plotter moving the pen
at a more constant speed.

The vinyl cutter? I drew it in CorelDraw and cut it out of vinyl
sign plastic and stuck it to the board. I didn't do nice traces, it
was done as large areas of copper isolated by thin etched strips.
This was at the limits of small size of the cutter and the vinyl.

Steve Greenfield

--- crankorgan <john@...> wrote:

Steve,
Don't take the plotter apart until you look at:




Also, hooking up a Dremel or other tool to a Plotter
has a drawback. Pen-up and pen-down signals are too fast. If
you use a dashpot to slow the solenoid, the X Y will start moving
before the Dremel is down all the way. A plotter can make really
nice boards. It is possible to gut a plotter and drive it using
GCode files. Then using the Z axis movement you can get the
timing
right.

John

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