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[hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question
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In a message dated 2/19/02 9:11:13 PM Central Standard Time,
raul_de_jalapeno@... writes: Hi big G!So what you are saying is that pretty much any model of Leslie would work and a B+ supply is readily available? What's "B+" mean? Would the 6 pin cable and plugs still work or does this require something different? I think what I'm going to do is find the Leslie and know there's a way to make it work and then worry about the how to do it part after I've got the goods! Thanks you for your help! "Big G" :) |
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In a message dated 2/19/2002 10:24:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gdhiatt@... writes: So what you are saying is that pretty much any model of Leslie would workBV/CV and earlier models required B+ voltage from the Hammond tone cabinet in order to power the preamp. Leslies with 122-style six-pin hook-ups provide this B+ on pin 5. The reason Hammond did this was so people would buy a tone cabinet rather than hanging "just any old amp" or hi-fi etc on the output lines. The A-100 was the first console to not require a tone cabinet (the spinets didn't, either, and if I remember right, Hammond was the first organ company to market a spinet). Leslies with 6-pin 147-style "universal" hookup, as well as 9 and 11 pin Leslies, do not provide that B+ voltage, that's why you might need a B+ supply. That's also why you want to make sure you're not interchanging a 122 on a 147 hook-up or vice-versa. To respond to another post, there's LOTS of differences between an A and an A-100 - age (1935-1937 vs 1959-1965, 1962-1975 for A-105's), vibrato (A-100's have it, A's dont unless they have the AV upgrade kit, but A's did have a tremulant), percussion (A-100's have it, A's don't), speakers (A's require a tone cabinet or Leslie, and B+ supply somewhere, A-100's have speakers and reverb), and case (A's have a B-3 type case, although not as deep. A-100's have traditional organ style case). Doug, who likes his A-105 a whole lot so far... (hard to believe, it's not even been two years I've been puttering with Hammonds ... and yes, for those wondering, I am far more a 'technical guy' than a player, but I'm working on that, too). |
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Raul, so is this what you are saying: The B+ current comes BACK from the Tone
cabinet to the pre-amp in the console? If thats so that's really interesting to me (I'm learning a lot)... Common sense would say that the power starts at the console (because that's what plugs into the wall) and goes to the tone cabinet... That's an interesting thought that a signal is going in the opposite direction. Here's another question... is there another reason, from an engineering standpoint, why the amp would be in the tone cabinet instead of the console? My best guess is that they had to lighten it somehow and that was a good place to put it. Also in the "B" type consoles there isn't any place to put anything in there. I'm just wondering if having the amp away from the tone generator makes for a cleaner signal. Thanks again for your ideas and comments. George |
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Raul de Jalapeno
Hi big G!
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All your A would need is a B+ supply. Many models of Leslies have such a supply ready for the console. The alternative is to purchase a B+ supply from Goff, Prokeys, etc. and install it in the console. I can also supply you with a schematic for a simple, well-filtered supply to do the job in your choice of tube or solid-state. I cheated with my CV: I installed a Hammond MkIV reverb assembly right into the console cabinet. I modified it's power supply to provide the B+ for the pre-amp. Raul ----- Original Message -----
From: gdhiatt@... To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:47 PM Subject: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Y'all I know you know about my DXR20 tone cabinet... Just suppose... just suppose I found a Leslie someplace. What would I need to do to hook up my Model A to it? Could I just plug it in or does it require getting some other equipment? I assume I'd need to have a Leslie with a power amp in it or have a separate amp. How does that work anyway do Leslies have an amp in them? I'm wondering because I thought I should be on the lookout for an opportunity to get a Leslie and should start to know something about what I should be looking for. George Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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I really don't know what a Model A is, but the leslie is unique that it either has a 6,9,or 11 pin outlet which will take almost any Hammond, and those hammonds that have thier own speaker built in, can, thru adapters be hooked up to a leslie. If your hammond already has pins on it at the bottom then count the pins and go on the internet (e-bay) and try to find a leslie, even one with more or less pins and they have adapters to fit, (hammond organ.com or keyword hammond organ or leslie)and in a matter of days you can find one, then call a hammond organ dealer. Hey, there are all sorts of possibilities. By the way, I think model A is actually Model A 100, which does support a leslie and has it's own internal speaker. If that be the case you should get someone (professional) to do all of your hook ups, this is good because with the switches you can have both speakers on at the same time, or just the internal (without the spinning horns) or just the leslie. Go for it. Please give me an update, or if you need some advice, e-mail me. I look forward to chatting with you.
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I really don't know what a Model A is, but the leslie is unique that it either has a 6,9,or 11 pin outlet which will take almost any Hammond, and those hammonds that have thier own speaker built in, can, thru adapters be hooked up to a leslie. If your hammond already has pins on it at the bottom then count the pins and go on the internet (e-bay) and try to find a leslie, even one with more or less pins and they have adapters to fit, (hammond organ.com or keyword hammond organ or leslie)and in a matter of days you can find one, then call a hammond organ dealer. Hey, there are all sorts of possibilities. By the way, I think model A is actually Model A 100, which does support a leslie and has it's own internal speaker. If that be the case you should get someone (professional) to do all of your hook ups, this is good because with the switches you can have both speakers on at the same time, or just the internal (without the spinning horns) or just the leslie. Go for it. Please give me an update, or if you need some advice, e-mail me. I look forward to chatting with you.
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Raul de Jalapeno
George,
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You got it. Leslies come with different cable types (6, 9, 11 pin), depending on how they are designed. Some of the design considerations are: pre-amp level connection from the console/speaker level connection from the console, availability of B+ feed for the console, inclusion of a reverb channel, etc. and several others. Goff, Speakeasy and a host of others carry the adapter kits to make your A match the Leslie you choose. Best to run your choice by the group first, since folks like Chris Clifton, Steve Hayes and others can give you the upshot on what adapters are available, etc. Now, as regards "B+": That's the high voltage that's needed to operate the vacuum tube elements in the preamp. For consoles like your A, my CV or Ken Godfrey's BCV, the B+ is supplied by the tone cabinet's power amplifier. In my C-3, the power supply components are built into the pre-amp. So if you set aside your tone cabinet for a Leslie, we have to supply this voltage (+200, to be exact) from another source. It can come from SOME Leslies, or the add-on power supply I mentioned. Raul ----- Original Message -----
From: gdhiatt@... To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question In a message dated 2/19/02 9:11:13 PM Central Standard Time, raul_de_jalapeno@... writes: > Hi big G! > All your A would need is a B+ supply. Many models of Leslies have such a > supply ready for the console. The alternative is to purchase a B+ supply > from Goff, Prokeys, etc. and install it in the console. I can also supply > you with a schematic for a simple, well-filtered supply to do the job in > your choice of tube or solid-state. I cheated with my CV: I installed a > Hammond MkIV reverb assembly right into the console cabinet. I modified > it's power supply to provide the B+ for the pre-amp. So what you are saying is that pretty much any model of Leslie would work and a B+ supply is readily available? What's "B+" mean? Would the 6 pin cable and plugs still work or does this require something different? I think what I'm going to do is find the Leslie and know there's a way to make it work and then worry about the how to do it part after I've got the goods! Thanks you for your help! "Big G" :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Laddie Williams
The model A is the first hammond ever put on the market. It was built in two versions. It never had a chorus as we
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now understand chorus. It has a hell of a bite and a lot of natural brilliance. Pop Organist Lenny Dee, in his prime, used a modified A in preference to a B-3. Of course, never without a Leslie. ----- Original Message -----
From: marcus briddell To: hammond_zone@... ; gdhiatt@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question I really don't know what a Model A is, but the leslie is unique that it either has a 6,9,or 11 pin outlet which will take almost any Hammond, and those hammonds that have thier own speaker built in, can, thru adapters be hooked up to a leslie. If your hammond already has pins on it at the bottom then count the pins and go on the internet (e-bay) and try to find a leslie, even one with more or less pins and they have adapters to fit, (hammond organ.com or keyword hammond organ or leslie)and in a matter of days you can find one, then call a hammond organ dealer. Hey, there are all sorts of possibilities. By the way, I think model A is actually Model A 100, which does support a leslie and has it's own internal speaker. If that be the case you should get someone (professional) to do all of your hook ups, this is good because with the switches you can have both speakers on at the same time, or just the internal (without the spinning horns) or just the leslie. Go for it. Please give me an update, or if you need some advice, e-mail me. I look forward to chatting with you. >From: gdhiatt@... >Reply-To: hammond_zone@... >To: hammond_zone@... >Subject: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question >Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:47:46 EST > >Y'all I know you know about my DXR20 tone cabinet... Just suppose... just >suppose I found a Leslie someplace. What would I need to do to hook up my >Model A to it? Could I just plug it in or does it require getting some >other >equipment? I assume I'd need to have a Leslie with a power amp in it or >have >a separate amp. How does that work anyway do Leslies have an amp in them? >I'm wondering because I thought I should be on the lookout for an >opportunity >to get a Leslie and should start to know something about what I should be >looking for. George _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Raul de Jalapeno
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---- Original Message -----
From: dougsyolists@... To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Doug, who likes his A-105 a whole lot so far... (hard to believe, it's not even been two years I've been puttering with Hammonds ... and yes, for those wondering, I am far more a 'technical guy' than a player, but I'm working on that, too). Ha! So Raul is not alone!! I thought I was the only one who knows more tubes than chords! Raul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Peter D Abrams
gdhiatt@... wrote:
Raul, so is this what you are saying: The B+ current comes BACK fromActually - If you think a little bit about it. The majority of the needed HV supply is going to be at the amp. The preamp doesn't need very much. Why reinvent the wheel and have it both places, and If it's gonna be in one place, the Amp/speaker side makes more sense. Why did they do this? Well. If you ran out and bought just the organ, yer dead in the water. But Hammond also sold the tone cabs. That *also* make the organ actually work. Marketing madness? Quite. Don Leslie had to make that work when he was trying to sell his spinny speakers as well. It may look crazy now, but it was business as usual in those days. I can come up with at least 5 things you can buy today that need "Item B" to make Item A work at all. It's the same ol you know what. later.... pda Jax Fl. Here's another question... is there another reason, from an |
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Raul de Jalapeno
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----- Original Message -----
From: gdhiatt@... To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Raul, so is this what you are saying: The B+ current comes BACK from the Tone cabinet to the pre-amp in the console? If thats so that's really interesting to me (I'm learning a lot)... Common sense would say that the power starts at the console (because that's what plugs into the wall) and goes to the tone cabinet... That's an interesting thought that a signal is going in the opposite direction. Yes. As was pointed out, hammond made sure you had to have a tone cabinet to make the console work so you wouldn't rush to use another manufacturer's amp. Is there another reason, from an engineering standpoint, why the amp would be in the tone cabinet instead of the console? My best guess is that they had to lighten it somehow and that was a good place to put it. Also in the "B" type consoles there isn't any place to put anything in there. I'm just wondering if having the amp away from the tone generator makes for a cleaner signal. Actually, George, the idea of getting the amp out of the console wasn't for weight or anything like that. In the '30s and 40s', many, many manufacturers of audio equipment would place their power amps near the speakers an run high-level preamp outputs over to the main amp. I think it's more the engineering of the time. You'll notice that while the B, C, and D kept to the pre-amp only scenario, the A-100, L-100, etc. had the amps in the console. All the spinets had internal power amps, I believe. Raul Thanks again for your ideas and comments. George Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Chris Clifton
I'd guess also that in the early days Hammond saw there main market as large
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halls, where remote siting of the speakers and the console would have been necessary. Also acoustically it would have been better to place the speakers in an enclosure designed to do just one job rather than share a cabinet with the rest of the works. When home organs became popular more compact designs were introduced. In many homes it was probably going to be a lot easier to get one large wooden box accepted than two, even if it meant compromising the sound. "Husband dearest, if you think you're going to put those two great big boxes in my lounge.....................!" I can see the marketing logic in making it so that only Hammond speakers could be used, could this be the real reason for Laurens' dislike of the Leslie? Chris Clifton There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Douglas Adams ----- Original Message -----
From: <gdhiatt@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Raul, so is this what you are saying: The B+ current comes BACK from theTone cabinet to the pre-amp in the console? If thats so that's reallyinteresting to me (I'm learning a lot)... Common sense would say that the power startsat the console (because that's what plugs into the wall) and goes to the toneconsole? My best guess is that they had to lighten it somehow and that was a goodput anything in there. I'm just wondering if having the amp away from the tone --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (). Version: 6.0.324 / Virus Database: 181 - Release Date: 14/02/02 |
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Laddie Williams
I am not sure about the two big boxes, but I am reasonably sure that Hammond was hung up on pipe organ sound and
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saw the Leslie as beating his time. He would have been better off coming out with a pipe organ. It is the only way to get the pipe organ sound. The B-3 sound is so unique with a Leslie that it is an instrument in its own right. It has no peer other than its "brothers and sisters" and stands alone in the world of music. I hear one at least two or three times a day providing the background to a TV or radio commercial. That is not an intended slur...it its a complment. Nothing but a B-3 sounds like a B-3. Hammond did not know enough to realize he had arrived. ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Clifton To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:23 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question I'd guess also that in the early days Hammond saw there main market as large halls, where remote siting of the speakers and the console would have been necessary. Also acoustically it would have been better to place the speakers in an enclosure designed to do just one job rather than share a cabinet with the rest of the works. When home organs became popular more compact designs were introduced. In many homes it was probably going to be a lot easier to get one large wooden box accepted than two, even if it meant compromising the sound. "Husband dearest, if you think you're going to put those two great big boxes in my lounge.....................!" I can see the marketing logic in making it so that only Hammond speakers could be used, could this be the real reason for Laurens' dislike of the Leslie? Chris Clifton There is a theory which states that if anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. Douglas Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: <gdhiatt@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:15 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question > Raul, so is this what you are saying: The B+ current comes BACK from the Tone > cabinet to the pre-amp in the console? If thats so that's really interesting > to me (I'm learning a lot)... Common sense would say that the power starts at > the console (because that's what plugs into the wall) and goes to the tone > cabinet... That's an interesting thought that a signal is going in the > opposite direction. > > Here's another question... is there another reason, from an engineering > standpoint, why the amp would be in the tone cabinet instead of the console? > My best guess is that they had to lighten it somehow and that was a good > place to put it. Also in the "B" type consoles there isn't any place to put > anything in there. I'm just wondering if having the amp away from the tone > generator makes for a cleaner signal. > > Thanks again for your ideas and comments. > > George > > > Visit The Hammond Zone > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (). Version: 6.0.324 / Virus Database: 181 - Release Date: 14/02/02 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Laddie Williams
LOL!!!
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Laddie ----- Original Message -----
From: Raul de Jalapeno To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question ---- Original Message ----- From: dougsyolists@... To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Doug, who likes his A-105 a whole lot so far... (hard to believe, it's not even been two years I've been puttering with Hammonds ... and yes, for those wondering, I am far more a 'technical guy' than a player, but I'm working on that, too). Ha! So Raul is not alone!! I thought I was the only one who knows more tubes than chords! Raul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Peter D Abrams
For some interesting information regarding the Hammond/Leslie
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relationship, check this out: regards, pda Jax Fl. Chris Clifton wrote: I can see the marketing logic in making it so that only Hammond |
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I agree, thanks from me, too...John Cammish
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Ken & Dianne Godfrey
Marcus,
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No, in this case, a Model A is just an A. George has the real deal: the ORIGINAL Hammond organ. A piece of history from the mid 30's that Laurens Hammond probably inspected himself, before it went out the door! BCV-KG -----Original Message----- |
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Ken & Dianne Godfrey
Big G,
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Or, you can leave your DXR20 hooked up to the A (to provide B+ voltage), and ADD the Leslie of your choice, and select either or both with a classic half-moon Echo switch! BCV-KG -----Original Message----- |
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Ken & Dianne Godfrey
George,
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You're right on both counts (weight / space, and reduced signal interference / hum pick-up). BCV-KG -----Original Message----- |
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