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[hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question
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Ken & Dianne Godfrey
Kind of like Columbus, still looking for China, huh? Didn't realize he'd
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found someplace BETTER! BCV-KG -----Original Message----- |
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Hi Group,
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Just as a bit of info on the design of early Hammonds and other electronic equip with the amp in the tone cabinet as opposed to inside the console. In the early days of electronics it was common practice to put the amp in the TC because of several factors. The most important one being that old style circuits generated a great amount of heat and there needed to be much natural air flow and space in order to keep things cool above and under the chassis. Can you imagine what would happen to an amp, such as the type used in a C40, if mounted inside the closed console? It would melt the wax off the caps, cook the tar out of the transformers and fry in short order (or drive you away from the keyboard after playing a few pieces) to say nothing of what all that heat would do to the rest of the organ. Also, the power supply (B+ portion) generated the greatest percentage of all the heat, thus the reason that it was in the TC on the amp chassis. The reason for all the heat is that the power produced by those old units, even though rated at 40 watts, was much higher than today's 40 watt units and, yesterday's tube circuits weren't as efficient a design as today's are. If you want to prove this to yourself, just look at the difference in size of the tubes and other components over the years. With the old tubes, it was necessary to provide area of glass for dissipation of heat, and plate size to prevent overheating and warping of the plates and other elements. The way that the early tubes heated up, one would get quite a burn if touched with bare fingers, yet, many of the newest tubes can be pulled from the socket by hand if you have tough fingers or a thin rag for protection. The old tubes (type 2A3 and etc.) would start a rag smoking and it could even start to smolder and burst into flame with time. In addition, the older balanced circuit amps had twice as many tubes per stage as today's circuits and only one stage per envelope. The heat developed in the circuitry of a BV/C40 is considerably more than that produced by the circuitry in an A100 which is self contained and doesn't require the old, higher power consuming amps, to drive the speakers. So, as can be seen, Hammond was not trying to corner the speaker/amp market, it was building to the requirements of the era of design to say nothing of the fact that the amp was designed to handle the heavy bass requirements of an organ, a leaning more toward bass, instrument. Lyle, Hammond Master Tech On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:28:14 -0700 "Raul de Jalapeno" <raul_de_jalapeno@...> writes: ----- Original Message -----________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: . |
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Richard B. Ahlvin
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----- Original Message -----
From: <felix-at-home@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Just as a bit of info on the design of early Hammonds and other<snip> So, as can be seen, Hammond was not trying to corner the speaker/ampno,No,NO!!! Are you trying to say Hammond used good engineering and tried and true construction practices of the day to build quality lasting industrial strength well designed equipment? HOGWASH!!! The only thing Hammond ever did (as do ALL companies) is to conspire, yes, I mean "industrial espionage". They steal ideas then to thwart competition, by designing products to be as incompatible with "standard practice" as possible! It of course has never occurred to manufacturers to try to make a product FOR a paying customer, the way that paying customer wants it. After all, it is distinctly un-American to even consider raping the public by providing a well designed, lasting item that lures the unsuspecting customer into unknowingly exchanging their hard earned (or Government subsidy) cash for superior products that do nothing but reward the company's sound business practices by providing (here comes the dirty word)---profit!! To be PC, we must ALWAYS penalize companies for success! Hammond put the B+ in the tone cabinet 'to prevent other brands from working with Hammonds.' They made the silly 7-pin part male and part female connector not so that a Hammond dealer would not accidentally plug a 4-channel series 12 cabinet into a 2 channel H-100, but specifically to keep any of Don Leslie's stuff from interfacing with Hammond stuff. (Then Don "stole" the idea and immediately made a 7-pin to 6-pin adapter...) Your explanation is not even faintly reasonable as there is NO CONSPIRACY in it! Sorry, I just can't buy your explanation... R. Ahlvin |
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Laddie Williams
Now, now, now Lets not get carried away!!! Profit is not a dirty word.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Richard B. Ahlvin To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question ----- Original Message ----- From: <felix-at-home@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question > Just as a bit of info on the design of early Hammonds and other > electronic equip <snip> > So, as can be seen, Hammond was not trying to corner the speaker/amp > market, it was building to the requirements of the era of design to say > nothing of the fact that the amp was designed to handle the heavy bass > requirements of an organ, a leaning more toward bass, instrument. no,No,NO!!! Are you trying to say Hammond used good engineering and tried and true construction practices of the day to build quality lasting industrial strength well designed equipment? HOGWASH!!! The only thing Hammond ever did (as do ALL companies) is to conspire, yes, I mean "industrial espionage". They steal ideas then to thwart competition, by designing products to be as incompatible with "standard practice" as possible! It of course has never occurred to manufacturers to try to make a product FOR a paying customer, the way that paying customer wants it. After all, it is distinctly un-American to even consider raping the public by providing a well designed, lasting item that lures the unsuspecting customer into unknowingly exchanging their hard earned (or Government subsidy) cash for superior products that do nothing but reward the company's sound business practices by providing (here comes the dirty word)---profit!! To be PC, we must ALWAYS penalize companies for success! Hammond put the B+ in the tone cabinet 'to prevent other brands from working with Hammonds.' They made the silly 7-pin part male and part female connector not so that a Hammond dealer would not accidentally plug a 4-channel series 12 cabinet into a 2 channel H-100, but specifically to keep any of Don Leslie's stuff from interfacing with Hammond stuff. (Then Don "stole" the idea and immediately made a 7-pin to 6-pin adapter...) Your explanation is not even faintly reasonable as there is NO CONSPIRACY in it! Sorry, I just can't buy your explanation... R. Ahlvin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Laddie Williams
Good point.. Now that I think of it.. when I was a kid.. my mom's tall Hammond speaker caught something afire that
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got in it. I am warned!! ----- Original Message -----
From: felix-at-home@... To: hammond_zone@... Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question Hi Group, Just as a bit of info on the design of early Hammonds and other electronic equip with the amp in the tone cabinet as opposed to inside the console. In the early days of electronics it was common practice to put the amp in the TC because of several factors. The most important one being that old style circuits generated a great amount of heat and there needed to be much natural air flow and space in order to keep things cool above and under the chassis. Can you imagine what would happen to an amp, such as the type used in a C40, if mounted inside the closed console? It would melt the wax off the caps, cook the tar out of the transformers and fry in short order (or drive you away from the keyboard after playing a few pieces) to say nothing of what all that heat would do to the rest of the organ. Also, the power supply (B+ portion) generated the greatest percentage of all the heat, thus the reason that it was in the TC on the amp chassis. The reason for all the heat is that the power produced by those old units, even though rated at 40 watts, was much higher than today's 40 watt units and, yesterday's tube circuits weren't as efficient a design as today's are. If you want to prove this to yourself, just look at the difference in size of the tubes and other components over the years. With the old tubes, it was necessary to provide area of glass for dissipation of heat, and plate size to prevent overheating and warping of the plates and other elements. The way that the early tubes heated up, one would get quite a burn if touched with bare fingers, yet, many of the newest tubes can be pulled from the socket by hand if you have tough fingers or a thin rag for protection. The old tubes (type 2A3 and etc.) would start a rag smoking and it could even start to smolder and burst into flame with time. In addition, the older balanced circuit amps had twice as many tubes per stage as today's circuits and only one stage per envelope. The heat developed in the circuitry of a BV/C40 is considerably more than that produced by the circuitry in an A100 which is self contained and doesn't require the old, higher power consuming amps, to drive the speakers. So, as can be seen, Hammond was not trying to corner the speaker/amp market, it was building to the requirements of the era of design to say nothing of the fact that the amp was designed to handle the heavy bass requirements of an organ, a leaning more toward bass, instrument. Lyle, Hammond Master Tech On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:28:14 -0700 "Raul de Jalapeno" <raul_de_jalapeno@...> writes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: gdhiatt@... > To: hammond_zone@... > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Leslie speaker question > > > Raul, so is this what you are saying: The B+ current comes BACK > from the Tone > cabinet to the pre-amp in the console? If thats so that's really > interesting > to me (I'm learning a lot)... Common sense would say that the > power starts at > the console (because that's what plugs into the wall) and goes to > the tone > cabinet... That's an interesting thought that a signal is going in > the > opposite direction. > Yes. As was pointed out, hammond made sure you had to have a tone > cabinet to make the console work so you wouldn't rush to use another > manufacturer's amp. > > Is there another reason, from an engineering standpoint, why the > amp would be in the tone cabinet instead of the console? > My best guess is that they had to lighten it somehow and that was > a good > place to put it. Also in the "B" type consoles there isn't any > place to put > anything in there. I'm just wondering if having the amp away from > the tone > generator makes for a cleaner signal. > Actually, George, the idea of getting the amp out of the console > wasn't for weight or anything like that. In the '30s and 40s', many, > many manufacturers of audio equipment would place their power amps > near the speakers an run high-level preamp outputs over to the main > amp. I think it's more the engineering of the time. You'll notice > that while the B, C, and D kept to the pre-amp only scenario, the > A-100, L-100, etc. had the amps in the console. All the spinets had > internal power amps, I believe. > > Raul > > Thanks again for your ideas and comments. > > George > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > Visit The Hammond Zone > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Visit The Hammond Zone > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: . Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |
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Ken & Dianne Godfrey
Hope that won't be our cats! Ever seen Christmas vacation?
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BCV-KG -----Original Message----- |
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