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Re: [hammond_zone] Joey D
开云体育For you guys that live in the U.K. you might want
to take a drive to London this Sunday evening as Joey Defrancesco is playing at
the Jazz Cafe in Camden Town.
?
See the gig guide for more details. I will be down
there...I havn't heard him play before, have any of you?
?
Darren |
Re: [hammond_zone] Re: Hammond M3 and my foul up...
David Bentley
In article <9ca397+4gdt@...>, scalaqna@... writes
Take it from me (someone who fitted the Goff TWG cap kit). Leave well alone!!!! I fitted the kit to my '62 C3 a few years ago and regretted it. The sound became very bright and "brittle" sounding so that the classic 888000000 sound ended up sounding like 686000000. It took 3 attempts at recalibrating the generator (not for the faint hearted, very tedious and also possibly dangerous as you can damage the fine wires going to the pick up coils) before I was happy with the sound. The final recalibration was done after measuring all the outputs on a friend's C3 with a great sound (the voltages were not the same as in the C3 manual either). This subject has been beaten to death on the Hamtech list over the years. Right nowThey (can caps) are available from some place in Mexico I think, but apparently the quality is poor. It is much simpler to leave the cans in place and just fit some modern electrolytics to the same value or higher inside the preamp -- David Bentley |
Power Supply Info
Gren
Hi Peter, and other gurus (a Hammond guru would possible be a Huru)
My M101 has had a hum for some time and although I replaced the large electrolytics and the rectifier bottle (sorry tube) I still cant get rid of it .. With a great deal of care <ouch> I have measured the output from the cathode of the rectifier and I suspect I have a heater to cathode leakage. Not having a clue how to check that I wondered if it was worth (or even dangerous) to use a bridge instead of the old bottle rectifier. I know there are surge problems with this mod but I know of several older beasts that had this mod done. I have having difficuly getting hold of good quality valves and the last replacement I tried in it started to spark over on power up. Any advise would be of help. Gren |
Another Hammond Fan...now from Chile
Guillermo Garcia Huidobro
Dear Peter,
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I have enjoyed the dialogue you are having with scalaqna. I have a very special attraction for those M3 Spìnets. Although I own a A-105 Console, a L111 Spinet and a XB2 Hammond Suzuki, I still remember my exitement when I played around 1960 a Hammond M3, at a class mate friend home in Chile. Then I played at a Chilean Radio Station Theater during 1964 for a while another M3. The first one was mahogany the second one was light pine. Wonderful instruments. Beautiful cabinetry, strong parts, reliables. I bought my Spinet L-111 (like the one used to play Keith Emerson) in 1967. I liked it of course, but it was not the same stuff. The cabinet was lighter than the M3, the Tone Generator (TG) not as close to the B3 as the M3, the Vivrato was awful, no scanner. The percussion not the same as M3/B3s That was the beginning of the Hammond decline. As scalaqna, I was always dreaming for a B3. Finally in 1976, when I was studying at Cambridge (UK), I managed to buy a brand new A-105. Another mahogany, like a C3, but with internal amplifier. Then We moved to Guatemala, where I bought a brand new Leslie 122, quite difficult to get by that time. A perfect combination. While I was playing the Spinet L-111 at Clubs, between 1967-72, I bought a second hand Leslie-145 for the Spinet from a friend that has bought a second hand A-100, and upgraded his leslie to a 122. That bloody spinet changed a lot. With a good Leslie you do not care for the weak Hammond Vivrato and the second class percussion of spinets. Never-the-less with a spinet you are forced to get the most only from the middle part of the keyboard. First of all because there are no low keys and the high ones lack the whole set of drawbars. I have told you all this because I am facing hum problems with my A-105. The Chilean Hammond dealer who happens to be a restore fan of ageing and dying Hammonds made for me all the minimum changes with regards to vacuum tubes and capacitors. But I got that bloody hum. I blame the pre-amplifier. I am decided to buy a Trek Solid State Pre-Amp which it seems to be the way to solve those hum problems (which I know could come as well from the TG), but I would gain reverberation as well. But I have a horrible doubt. And here comes at last my question: Do you know if the Trek Solid State Pre Amp could change the quality of the percussion sound? Or the scanner-vivrato quality? I would appreciate very much your opinion. Thanks a lot, Guillermo ggha@... ----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter D Abrams" <pabrams@...> To: <hammond_zone@...> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Re: Hammond M3 and my foul up... Hey there Brian, et al, |
Re: [hammond_zone] Re: Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Peter D Abrams
Hey there Brian, et al,
I'll snip a lot out of this, as you and I seem to be the talkers in this bunch so far, and I don't want to bore the rest to tears. And This one won't be brief on it's own behalf. Your original post lives. So here goes... scalaqna@... wrote: I still feel that there has been a change in the amount of "highs"If you turn out to be a true fanatic (watch out) I suggest would suggest a Silly Scope. I have a Tek 465. These are available on ebay in the <$300 range. I grew up with these things, so I don't even have to look at it to set things up. If you do persue that line, get some decent probes, but not necessarily Tek ones. The 6109 probes still sell for upwards of 300 bucks! find something cheaper, probe wise. If you don't feel the need for something like that, a digital MM will do just fine. I was told that a recap of the TG would brighten the highs and midsWhat I meant by that is that there are quite a few veteran/professional organ fixers out there who caution doing the TG cap replacement. When hammond was in business, the caps were matched to the pickup coils by hand, using a set baseline. What this means to you and me is this - the pickup coils were wound to an accepted tolerance. The caps were matched to account for that. They all were supposedly the same, but they weren't. From Harv Olsen and other's accounts, you had a barrel fulla .105 caps, and you measured the Q curve of that cap, and you put it in a bale of other caps that fit the same criteria. The Q was what determined which caps were matched with which TG pickup range. Simple. Next, when the cap/pickups were actually hooked up together, they would adjust the output level of each pickup coil to a known reference. All TG's leaving the factory met this spec. So. What we have is a really old organ, with wax caps. They have probably drifted all over the place, mostly becoming a lot larger in value than originally spec'd. So. Let me throw just one more piece of phlegm into this. Capacitors, especially ones that have rather small values (.105mf/.225mf) are usually designed to handle things around 60Hz. The hammond TG depends on these things to be able to deal with TG freqs approaching 6 KHZ. 100 times larger. Also they are intended for circuits exceeding 600VDC, where the TG is way lower. Microvolts. In a nutshell, the only way to deal with this is: 1. Get/find caps that are stable at audio freqs, and either have the original curves (um, nobody has them) and try to make it sound like it should by messing with the TG magnets. BTW, the published TG output freq charts I've seen are way off base. Don't rely on them. 2. Put the caps in, and live with it. So far, for my BC-105 (a '63 A105 guts transplanted into a BC case, with all of the structural mods) Sounds great. Much better than before the replacement of the Mylars. But - I rebuilt the preamp before I did the mod. 3. Like I said in the first post, do the preamp first. Most folks I've talked to say that this is the big cheese. The recap should come after, in my (and significant others) opinion. 4. If you have Mylar that're purple/red in appearance, (they can be found in organs from late '63 on), and you can date the organ to '63/64, Don't Touch'm!!! These organs are godlike in their sound. Walk slowly to the nearest Church, and thank the lord of your choice. You've got the best thing hammond ever did. Send me the serial number and model. You'll thank me for it. ha. The bigNope. The big electrolytics can be readily found at Mouser and other fine electronic places. What you *can't* do is replace any of the Can caps that stick out above the chassis. The common technique is to replace them under the hood, and clip the cans outta the circuit. The amp still looks normal, but the caps doing the real work are down under. Tip - make the values bigger in regards to the filter/electro caps. It never hoits, won't detract from the sound, and gives a little more reserve if you are doin a lot of Bass playin. You mentioned that parts are still available for these M-3's... IProbably from exposure to the sun. Nobody I know has a remedy for mottled keys. The M series keys are the same as the B/C keys, after a certain period. If your M-3 keys have rounded edges on the front, I know somebody that can get you this type. If they look just like the B-tree keys, then you can get them in a lot of places. Email me privately. You know. I did all I could. It's also missing the "music stand" (IHa! I have the Music Rack for mine, but I'm missing the fold down bracket for it. At the present time, it props up just nicely. I can scan dimensions for you, or build one, if need be. I have also acquired (yesterday) an Hammond B-3 organ that is cleanWorking on the M3 is probably the best way to get aquainted with the Btree, especially if it's in good shape. 98% of what you work on regarding the M3 will apply to the big guy. Amp/wise, there's more to it, as the B3 doesn't have one! Give me some serial numbers, etc. I know some folks that can date these pups to the day. PS/Also - what I said about Electrolytics is also a big deal in leslie's. The amps in the spinny things are power amps, not just preamps. It is essential for the preservation of these things that you shotgun the big caps asap. Once again, the original transformers are not easy to find, and you'll be better off buying seoarate caps for the replacements. Here are some specs for you:Ha! wish I knew. My '55 says the same. Serial# - 106921I never had a m100. I'm assuming the VBL is the same. Once again... Thanks for all of your help. You have been a wealthIt's been a pleasure. I only Rue the day when the real techs find this place and rip me to shreds!! pda Not a Vendor, not a Retail guy. Just another person that loves this stuff. Bigtime. Jax Fl. |
Re: [hammond_zone] New poll for hammond_zone
Matt Boden
Being new to the world of the hammond, I'm not exactly sure which model I've got, but this is what I think it is:
Hammond L (100? Not sure, but it is a spinnet) Leslie 247 (although rummaging around on the net I found a picture which looked exactly like mine, and had the number 225 or something.....it's the 'furniture' cabinet) Hammonds are new to me, but I've been playing keys for a while and also have the pleasure of owning a fender rhodes 73 mach II, a korg polysix, and an ARP oddesey. I am livign in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at . |
New poll for hammond_zone
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
hammond_zone group: What type of Hammond Organ do you own? o M-3 o M-2 o M o M-100 series o B-3 o B-2 o B o A o AB o A-100 o C-3 o C-2 o C o LSI Hammond o T,H or other Series To vote, please visit the following web page: Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! |
Re: Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Hi Peter-
I am going to finish what I started writing the other day, this time hopefully uninterrupted ;) This is what I wrote the other day, and I'll just pick up where I left off.. Thank you so much for the prompt and thorough reply. I really do enjoy my Spinet, and I want to see it work, and I am willing to put the time and money into the repairs if necessary. Fortunately, I am less than two hours away from Speakeasy Vintage Music, and I have spoken to Steve Hayes, and he is great. I am really considering taking the organ to him at one point, and having him do a once over... However, I also would like the experience of knowing all about them, as this will not be the only one I will be owning in my lifetime. I recieved the Hammond M-Series Service Manual, and it has been a great help to me. I now know where everything is, and what to replace! I then checked the wire on the drawbar (as you stated) and it certainly was the culprit! I think all Hammond Organs should be sold with a soldering iron, and rosin-core solder! Thanks again... I was so flustered from what I thought I might have done that I didn't check one of the most obvious things. That's been fixed... I still feel that there has been a change in the amount of "highs" and "mids" that I heard prior to my mishap... Maybe this is my imagination, but I have a pretty good ear for that kind of stuff... What type of test equipment should I have available? I do have a Vacuum Tube tester that works quite well, and the tubes look as though they were replaced in the last 15 or so years (Sylvania vs. the Original Hammond Tubes) though I have not tested them as of yet. I was told that a recap of the TG would brighten the highs and mids considerably. You mentioned something about falling into "black holes" when recapping the TG. I was just wondering what you meant by that... I don't think I am so much intimidated about rebuilding, just as long as I know what I am getting into.. I would just like to replace those old wax caps with something that will last... Plus the Amplifier (if It's worth it) I would like to rebuild. Right now there is not a lick of hum, or crackle or anything... The signal is quite clean.... Probably better that I expected it to be... This leads me to believe that it may be better left untouched. The big electrolytic caps are hard to find aren't they? Those are probably what I am most worried about. Does Goff include detailed instructions with their kits (I hope)? You mentioned that parts are still available for these M-3's... I would love to replace just the white Upper and Lower Manual Keys, since for some reason, about 5 of the 8 keys of each octave have become discolored due to the use of another batch of plastic I guess. They are almost gray and appear speckled. It would be fine if they were all like that, but I'd like to clean it up some.. You know. I did all I could. It's also missing the "music stand" (I forget the appropriate name for that)... I think it would be a great project. I have also acquired (yesterday) an Hammond B-3 organ that is clean inside and out (it even has the cloth bag full of screws next to the preset bars)... Looks like nobody ever touched the thing... The inside wasn't monkeyed with at all, and it's just cherry. It had a minimal service done on it not too long ago by the previous owner, and it started right up and played. As I learn more about it, I will let the group know. Howevwer, I am more interested in getting the Spinet up and running because it is alot simpler an architecture, and it's a great way to get my hands dirty... I would like to see it perform as new if you know what I mean. Any help would be greatly appreciated... Thanks again, Peter. Here are some specs for you: 1958 Hammond M-3 Form A1 (What does this mean?) Serial# - 106921 Amplifier - AO-29-1H (the Service Manual Mentions the "H" Type Amplifiers where a change was made.. I am assuming that I have this type of Amplifier) Also, the Vibrato Line Box looks alot like that of the one used in the M-100 vs. the M3. Any suggestions as to why that is? Once again... Thanks for all of your help. You have been a wealth of accurate and useful information. Best Regards, Brian --- In hammond_zone@y..., Peter D Abrams <pabrams@b...> wrote: Good evening Brian...What parts, butdo you know.. A Baby B-3...Nope. I've got an M-3. Love it. A 1955 that I bought for Unless I Absolutely Have To, I'll never tear this thing apart tofix the Consoles. Parts are still available. I'm thinking about a completeback (Loweron accidentally), I seemed to have blown out an entire Drawbar have#7) and it sounds as though now I have to recap the entire thing,You have a Solid State mind in a Tube world. Listen up. hurt the Tone Generator by flipping the power on and off. It'sentirely mechanical. Blowing out an entire drawbar is also something thatdoesn't happen, there's a wire that comes from the lower manual keyboardsounds more like that wire has become disconnected. It happens all thetime. wouldsince the higher tones are somewhat weaker than prior to my switches,it cost)?If anything happened as a result of the fast flipping of it's possible that you may have damaged a capacitor/resistor in theto keep tones from bleeding into each other and never have anysignificant voltages applied to them. Also - have you tried reseating thetubes? the amp. www.goffprof.com. When you get the M-3 manual, figure out whichand lucky, get the parts, and rebuild the amp. Replace all the caps,replace all the resistors. www.mouser.com. The wax caps are way beyond theirout the Power transformer. Dead Horse. Almost impossible to find.it, and see. TG cap replacement is a big deal to some people, and itleads you down a lot of black holes.replaceI can probably do the work myself. I am kicking myself as understandeverything I can, and I know there are kits out there to do this.Only for the TG and Vib box. Goff used to sell kits for the art of the rebuild, and screwed it up. They *will* rebuild ampsif you send them in, but expect to pay more for that than you did forthe whole rig!isI think the caps would apply to both the M-3 and the B3 since it Soundspretty much the same tone generator. Any help would be great!Yeah, pretty much. I actually don't know if they sell a kit great. You'll have to call and ask.lot of good info there, and it might enlighten you a bit as to how allthe parts fit together.guy in hardDover, PA who manufactures Tube Leslie Pre-Amps, and those very with.to come by Transformers...Steve Hayes. Speakeasy Vintage Music. He has a good reputation, and incredible. I've bought stuff from him. I don't think he makesrig you have is an excellent deal, don't let that fool you intothinking you shouldn't spend good money to make it work. Nothing is moredeflating than trying to fix something, and hearing that Pop, seeing thatFlash, and knowing that you won't be playing your hammond tonight. If it*does* happen, just be grateful that the thing didn't electrocute you inthe process.Thanks in Advance!Regards and best of luck, |
Re: [hammond_zone] Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Peter D Abrams
Gren and all,
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Here's a good description for the fold back procedure: later, pda Gren wrote: |
Re: [hammond_zone] Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Gren
开云体育Many thanks Peter
?
>???? I have both types. The differences are
2-fold:
?
I am quite happy to get in there with a
soldering iron ..
Where can I get some details of doing a
'foldback' mod ?
?
I have a workshop manual for the
M
?
Your information was of great help and got my
juices going .. thanks again.
Gren
|
Re: [hammond_zone] So many organists so little music
Peter D Abrams
Gren, again,
There's a ton of stuff out there. ya just have to look. For starters, Rufus has quite a few solos and other hammond organ things on his site, starting with this one: Go to the web rings and find some more: There's a ton of stuff out there. Have a happy. If we don't see you back here in a few months, then we'll worry. pda Jax Fl. |
Re: [hammond_zone] Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Peter D Abrams
Yo Gren.
Gren wrote:I have both types. The differences are 2-fold: 1. In the distribution number of working tonewheels. The Consoles have 96 tonewheels, of which 91 actually do something, the other 5 are there for balance. The M-3 Has the same 96 Tonewheels, but only 86 of them work. (I'm pulling this from memory) The missing tones on the M series are on the bottom, if I recall correctly. 2. Wiring - While the M's have the same tonal range of the consoles, they do not incorporate "foldback" in the upper octaves. On a console, when you get to that tone #91, they repeat the previous octave. If you pull out drawbar #9, for example, it gets to the highest note it can do, and then repeats the last octave until you run out of keys. In the case of #9, it does this trick for almost 1 1/2 octaves. This is where that hammond console sound rules, and why. On a spinet, you run out of tones when you run out of tones. no foldback. You can modify this to sound just like a console. You'll need a "foldback kit". You can't really buy them, you have to either tear another organ apart, or find somebody that has done so, and then the fun begins. Some of the spinets need extra full-length bussbars to make this work, some don't. They will all need a pile of contacts and some involved rewiring of the manuals. It's not an easy mod, but compared to buying a console, itsa piece'o'duck. It just depends on what you can do, skill wise. later, pda I would love |
Re: [hammond_zone] So many organists so little music
Dan & Connie Sinasac
I believe it is just a matter of time before this MP3 idea will happen
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as more people get on the net. I know there are some wonderful players out there but they are a long way from getting material to the net. There is some older stuff I'm sure that maybe could be loaded for access. -----Original Message-----
From: Gren [mailto:potbelliedpigs@...] Sent: April 25, 2001 4:07 PM To: hammond_zone@... Subject: [hammond_zone] So many organists so little music Just a thought here but with so many organists I am amazed with the lack of music. I wonder if it is not time for someone to start a Hammond MP3 source .. whether that be a web site or just plain mailing. Personally I would love to hear some of the beautiful sounds which eminate from the worlds best organ. By the look of the patronage of this list we do have a good supply of organists and some great Hammonds .. come on guys .. what do you think those keyboards are for. Gren Visit The Hammond Zone To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: hammond_zone-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |
Re: [hammond_zone] Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Gren
开云体育Very interesting mail .. so does anyone have
knowledge on how different the M100 tonewheels differ from the B3 ? I know the
B3 has more harmonics than the M100 series but by how much ..? I would love an A
or B or even C purely because of the larger manuals but wouldn't it be nice to
be able to produce those harmonics on the M100 .. (which I have) How many more
tonewheels does an A,B,C have than an M ?
?
I love my M and but having played an A100 with its
richer feel I must admit that I am seriously thinking of looking around for an
A,B or C just for the richer sound and fuller harmonics.
?
Gren
? |
So many organists so little music
Gren
Just a thought here but with so many organists I am amazed with the lack of
music. I wonder if it is not time for someone to start a Hammond MP3 source .. whether that be a web site or just plain mailing. Personally I would love to hear some of the beautiful sounds which eminate from the worlds best organ. By the look of the patronage of this list we do have a good supply of organists and some great Hammonds .. come on guys .. what do you think those keyboards are for. Gren |
Re: [hammond_zone] Hammond M3 and my foul up...
Peter D Abrams
Good evening Brian...
scalaqna@... wrote: Nope. I've got an M-3. Love it. A 1955 that I bought for parts, but Unless I Absolutely Have To, I'll never tear this thing apart to fix the Consoles. Parts are still available. I'm thinking about a complete refinish for the case. It's a nice box. My question is, after pulling a stupid move (possibly a surge ofYou have a Solid State mind in a Tube world. Listen up. Short of a 20 megaton bomb going off inside of it, I doubt you have hurt the Tone Generator by flipping the power on and off. It's entirely mechanical. Blowing out an entire drawbar is also something that doesn't happen, there's a wire that comes from the lower manual keyboard assembly to the back of the drawbar. Have you checked that? It sounds more like that wire has become disconnected. It happens all the time. since the higher tones are somewhat weaker than prior to myIf anything happened as a result of the fast flipping of switches, it's possible that you may have damaged a capacitor/resistor in the A0-29 amp. *Not* the caps on the TG itself. The TG caps are filters to keep tones from bleeding into each other and never have any significant voltages applied to them. Also - have you tried reseating the tubes? Goff has cap kits for the TG and the Vibrato Line box, but not the amp. www.goffprof.com. When you get the M-3 manual, figure out which series M-3 amp you have (there are several) and if you feel brave and lucky, get the parts, and rebuild the amp. Replace all the caps, replace all the resistors. www.mouser.com. The wax caps are way beyond their design life, and are responsible for most of the "tone" of the instrument. The electrolytics are very crucial, as they hang off the power supply, and if they decide to short, they'll possibly take out the Power transformer. Dead Horse. Almost impossible to find. The TG caps would be next, But I would rebuild the preamp, play it, and see. TG cap replacement is a big deal to some people, and it leads you down a lot of black holes. I can probably do the work myself. I am kicking myself asOnly for the TG and Vib box. Goff used to sell kits for amps/preamps, but most of the folks who bought them didn't understand the art of the rebuild, and screwed it up. They *will* rebuild amps if you send them in, but expect to pay more for that than you did for the whole rig! I think the caps would apply to both the M-3 and the B3 since it isYeah, pretty much. I actually don't know if they sell a kit specific kit for an M-3, I've got one TG cap rebuilt B-3 here. Sounds great. You'll have to call and ask. If you haven't, you might want to check out the hammond FAQ. A lot of good info there, and it might enlighten you a bit as to how all the parts fit together. BTW- I have a M, M2, M3, M100 Service Manual on it's way to me inSteve Hayes. Speakeasy Vintage Music. He has a good reputation, and apparently has a secret Leslie magnet that he uses to collect them with. incredible. I've bought stuff from him. I don't think he makes replacement power xfmrs for an M-3. The only replacement I know is another M-3. One (and only) one word of caution - If you feel the least bit intimidated about any of this, think about it. $300 bucks for the rig you have is an excellent deal, don't let that fool you into thinking you shouldn't spend good money to make it work. Nothing is more deflating than trying to fix something, and hearing that Pop, seeing that Flash, and knowing that you won't be playing your hammond tonight. If it *does* happen, just be grateful that the thing didn't electrocute you in the process. Thanks in Advance!Regards and best of luck, pda Jax Fl. |
Hammond M3 and my foul up...
I seem to be the only person here with a spinet. I own a 1958
Hammond M-3 and a Leslie 825. Not a bad little setup for $300. What do you know.. A Baby B-3... My question is, after pulling a stupid move (possibly a surge of power to the Tone Generator by shutting it down and turning it back on accidentally), I seemed to have blown out an entire Drawbar (Lower #7) and it sounds as though now I have to recap the entire thing, since the higher tones are somewhat weaker than prior to my mishap... Any suggestions as to why that drawbar might have blown out, and where I can purchase a new capacitor set (and how much would it cost)? I can probably do the work myself. I am kicking myself as we speak for my slip up... I would like to restore it, and replace everything I can, and I know there are kits out there to do this. I think the caps would apply to both the M-3 and the B3 since it is pretty much the same tone generator. Any help would be great! BTW- I have a M, M2, M3, M100 Service Manual on it's way to me in the mail, and it should be here any day now. I also know of a guy in Dover, PA who manufactures Tube Leslie Pre-Amps, and those very hard to come by Transformers... Thanks in Advance! Brian |
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