Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
Hi, using a Hammond A100 and a Leslie 145... the Hammond has a variable line output that I feed into a Neo Ventilator, which in turn feeds two active 150w studio speakers. The Neo Ventilator has a very nice adjustable level overdrive effect that I balance with the audio to the Leslie 145... This can give me an ultra clean sound to a 'Jon Lord' growl when needed. :)
DaveH (Deep South, UK)
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
Hi Chris, thanks for the clarification.? I spent a little time online and now have a better understanding.? This site gives a good description of the Leslie console kit near the bottom of the page:
?
?
-Dave
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
I have the trek effects loop fitted plus trek output (low pass very usefull for pedals). I have to say that I’ve not had opportunity to test many effects, and the ones I have were a little disappointing, meaning when performing I use a kurzweil controller on the GarageBand rock B3 for dirty Hammond and use the B3 stock for everything Hammond through the Leslie
Chris Suttle
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
In a standard 122 installation there is an isolating transformer
in the connector kit, the DC speed control voltage is applied to
the centre tap of the secondary of this transformer. The centre
tap of the organ pre-amp output transformer is solidly connected
to ground inside the pre-amp.
On 16/12/2024 02:56, david_l_manley via
groups.io wrote:
With this direct out circuit, if the B3 is wired for a Leslie
122 doesn't the 'G' output have a DC bias (inserted via the
transformer output stage center tap) dependent on the Leslie
speed setting?? Wouldn't you want to AC couple the output in
that case?
?
Searching for Trek II reverb info, I found some sale listings
on Reverb that show a factory (?) option for an effects insert
path.? Does anybody know anything about this?? There is very
little info online about this reverb circuit.? Is Trek still in
business?? I'm tempted to do a little reverse engineering.
--
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
With this direct out circuit, if the B3 is wired for a Leslie 122 doesn't the 'G' output have a DC bias (inserted via the transformer output stage center tap) dependent on the Leslie speed setting?? Wouldn't you want to AC couple the output in that case?
?
Searching for Trek II reverb info, I found some sale listings on Reverb that show a factory (?) option for an effects insert path.? Does anybody know anything about this?? There is very little info online about this reverb circuit.? Is Trek still in business?? I'm tempted to do a little reverse engineering.
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
Removing the 0-001 capacitor connected from the top of the level
control pot to the wiper in that line out circuit would likely
reduce the treble somewhat. The effect of that capacitor would be
to boost the treble, especially at lower level settings. You could
also experiment with a capacitor and potentiometer connected in
series across the level control pot.
On 14/12/2024 16:11, Ron Kassof via
groups.io wrote:
I've used this circuit on my 1955 B2/Trek II preamp and it's
pretty nice. I have noticed that it's a little trebly in output
so I've wondered if there's an easy way to add a tone control to
tame it, or a crossover to create a subwoofer output to
emphasize the bass/pedals. Of course, a way to feed the signal
back into the Leslie to create an effects send/return loop would
be great but I expect that that would be a bit more complex.
?
Also, Kon's Zener diode overdrive circuit is floating around
out the in the internet, and on one of my hard drives,
somewhere.
--
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
I've used this circuit on my 1955 B2/Trek II preamp and it's pretty nice. I have noticed that it's a little trebly in output so I've wondered if there's an easy way to add a tone control to tame it, or a crossover to create a subwoofer output to emphasize the bass/pedals. Of course, a way to feed the signal back into the Leslie to create an effects send/return loop would be great but I expect that that would be a bit more complex.
?
Also, Kon's Zener diode overdrive circuit is floating around out the in the internet, and on one of my hard drives, somewhere.
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
Hi Dave,
?
Glad you like the video. With the Line out, I can easily add distortion pedals (also a reverb), and I have experimented with many. It seems easier to get the really overdriven Jon Lord sounds than the slightly distorted/overdriven sounds. In the end, none of the pedals I tried with or without the Leslie amp seemed as good as a good quality tube guitar amp, at least for the sounds I like the most. Unfortunately, the line out idea works better with a 147 amp than the 122. I'm attaching a picture of the Line Out document that I used.?
?
Best of luck,
- Jason
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
Hi Jason,
?
Thanks for the reply.? I really enjoyed the video - great playing and sounds on Hoedown.
?
I'll take a look for the direct box schematics you mentioned.? I wonder if there's an easy effects insert possible at or inside the Trek reverb interface?? My first guess this would be the easiest, since it is already an 'inserted effect'?? I'll have to do some digging around.
?
-Dave
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Re: 1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
I have a pretty similar set up and also prefer an overdriven rock sound. I think many classic players used various guitar amps to drive their Leslies, and I have gotten my favorite results this way as well. The "problem" with the normal Hammond closed loop with a 122 is that it does not allow us to add effects between the Hammond and Leslie. Although it can be a headache and requires some work, I think making a direct out box and combining it with a different amp and/or effects to drive the Leslie is the best way to get a great rock tone.?
The first step is to make a direct out box to attenuate the very hot/strong signal for the Hammond. I found a schematic diagram on this list years ago which worked very well. It involves a some cheap electrical components and a little soldering. You then will have a dial (to dial down the strength of the signal) and a 1/4" jack, so that you can run a line into your effects or amp. There is then the problem of connecting that back into your Leslie, by passing your 122 amp. There are various ways to do this, and others can probably better help you with the best way for you.?
I use a Carr Slant 6V guitar amp to drive my 122/147, and you can hear the result here:
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1959 B3 and 122R Leslie recommended upgrades
Hi All,
?
I have a very clean unmodified 1959 B3 and a 122R Leslie.? The only mod is the Trek II reverb.? The only change to its sound I'd consider would be an option to give it the 'grind' sound typical in some rock settings, not the full on distortion ala Deep Purple, but just some grit when desired.
?
The unit is fully functional and while fairly noise free it does have a low level hum.? I have nothing to compare it to, so don't know if it is considered 'normal'.
?
I bought the A0-28 capacitor kit and the Leslie 122 rebuild kit from Tonewheel General Hospital.? I have a lot of electronics experience, so have no questions about safety, or changing out components, but I am looking for any general comments, things to look for, etc while I have the unit opened up for these changes.
?
Also, I see some change in brightness from the Leslie's OC3/VR105 when changing the rotor speed.? Is this normal due to the way the Leslie speed is indicated via changing the voltage sent to the Leslie?
?
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Hello to everyone old and new.
Sorry, if I was unclear in my attempt to explain. Plus/Minus are polarities normaly used in DC circuits. It was just the terminology I was commenting on.
The terms could be used to express the polarity of a speaker and I believe, the Leslie woofer (C15L) has a red dot to designate one end of the voice coil so you can rely on that all speakers of this type and brand are in phase when you connect them to one source.
I never saw a documentation saying which of the green or black wires that are coming from the crossover go to the red dot. The same applies for the treble driver. It has a red dot, too. ?When you had two woofers in the same box it's obvious that they have to be wired in phase otherwise you have a so called acoustical short circuit.
But positioned already a couple of feet away from each other the phase wouldn't matter any more given that the drums have an undeterminate position against each other anyway.?
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Am 08.12.2024 um 20:49 schrieb Dennis Wage (N9OQ) < dwage@...>:
I'm not sure why you're saying that. Maybe you can explain more.
If I'm using 2 Leslies at the same time and one of them has the 15" driver wired wrong, the 2 woofers will be out of phase. This is not ideal.
Maybe it's terminology. Phase and polarity.
But there is a right and a wrong way to wire the drivers.
?
DW
|
Re: Hello to everyone old and new.
I'm not sure why you're saying that. Maybe you can explain more.
If I'm using 2 Leslies at the same time and one of them has the 15" driver wired wrong, the 2 woofers will be out of phase. This is not ideal.
Maybe it's terminology. Phase and polarity.
But there is a right and a wrong way to wire the drivers.
?
DW
|
Re: Hello to everyone old and new.
Hi Dennis,?
welcome back again. There is no plus or minus in crossover networks.?
Everything is AC, so to say. Where is a distinction made, just follow the nomenclature.
— Christoph?
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Am 08.12.2024 um 16:48 schrieb Dennis Wage (N9OQ) <dwage@...>:
?
Since I've sworn off all social media, I'm back to mailing lists—hoping I'm still welcome here.
I'm currently rebuilding a crossover, where maintaining correct polarity is critical, especially since I sometimes run two Leslies. My research into the nomenclature for the *L* and *S* on S(ocket)7 and P(lug)7 indicates they stand for *Large* and *Small*, which makes sense, right? Further investigation suggests that the *Large* terminal is typically the positive connection.
Upon examining the cable that goes from the amp to the dividing network, the red wire is indeed soldered to the *Large* pin. Yet on the schematic, *L* is labeled **BLK** and *S* is labeled **RED**. Looking further down the signal path, it turns out *L (BLK)* is actually the positive, while *S (RED)* is the negative.
Any insights on this discrepancy?
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Re: Looking for Chris Clifton
Thanks. I realized I would have to get to the underside of the board and have already lifted the board off the chassis to see if there any obvious short. I didn’t see anything that looked burnt. Based on your last note regarding that there shouldn’t be any AC voltage at the transistors, I’ve decided to not proceed any further. Thank you for your assistance and advice.?
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On Dec 8, 2024, at 3:44 AM, Chris Clifton via groups.io <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:
?
At some point in the repair process you would have to get to the
back of the amplifier board in order to unsolder a faulty
component. That's not particularly easy on the T-series. Whether
you lift the chassis off the pedal board, (my preferred method) or
lift the circuit board off the chassis. There are a lot of wires
connected to that board. It is possible to work on the board
without disconnecting any wires, but if one accidentally gets
disconnected, then you have a new fault to trace.
On 07/12/2024 22:38, Ned Lucas via
groups.io wrote:
Haha, yeah, I’m thinking the same thing. I’ve kept my B3, C3 (x2)
and A100 running for 20 years but solid state stuff is new to me.
I’d hate to junk this but that may be the play here. I’be taken
the Leslie unit out to access the boards. The Leslie was
functioning alright ie it was firing up and spinning properly so I
guess someone will probably want it.?
?
Pin 17 and the collector of Q604 should be 25 volts DC (not
AC!) when measured with the negative lead of the meter to
ground (any point on the chassis) and positive to the point
where you're measuring. It should never be an AC voltage,
and certainly not 60 volts. Voltages around all the
transistors should in the first instance be measured as DC
voltages.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if you've bitten off
more than you can chew with this. From your comments, you
appear to have no understanding of what we are trying to do
here. I can't teach you all you need to know by email.
On 07/12/2024 17:56, Ned Lucas
via groups.io wrote:
Well, just looking at the voltages at Q604 (the transistor
with the heat sink),?
Pin #17 (which should be the Collector voltage of
+25vac) I’m reading +60vac. ?When I put the positive probe
on the C leg and the negative probe on the chassis I read
0 vac.?
On the Base and Emittor, I’m reading 0 vac.?
On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Ned
Lucas via groups.io <nedlucas@...>
wrote:
?
Thank you so much!
On Dec 7, 2024, at 4:31 AM,
Christoph via groups.io <kuku@...>
wrote:
?
Oh, typos:
unfortunately. I just wanted
Am 07.12.2024 um 10:22 schrieb
Christoph via
< kuku@...>:
Ned,
did you check the power supply
voltages ??
Funnily, the other day I was
able to download?
the T-500 Service manual from?.
Unfotunately I forgot to
download part II, which contains most of
the circuit diagrams. I kusted wanted to
lookup the points where to measure the
15 and 35V.
unfortunately. I just wanted ... ?15 and 25V
When I try to dowload it now
I‘m getting
?Item not available due to
issues with theitem‘s content“ Anyone
knowing an alternate source?
—
Christoph?
--
--
|
Hello to everyone old and new.
Since I've sworn off all social media, I'm back to mailing lists—hoping I'm still welcome here.
I'm currently rebuilding a crossover, where maintaining correct polarity is critical, especially since I sometimes run two Leslies. My research into the nomenclature for the *L* and *S* on S(ocket)7 and P(lug)7 indicates they stand for *Large* and *Small*, which makes sense, right? Further investigation suggests that the *Large* terminal is typically the positive connection.
Upon examining the cable that goes from the amp to the dividing network, the red wire is indeed soldered to the *Large* pin. Yet on the schematic, *L* is labeled **BLK** and *S* is labeled **RED**. Looking further down the signal path, it turns out *L (BLK)* is actually the positive, while *S (RED)* is the negative.
Any insights on this discrepancy?
|
Re: Looking for Chris Clifton
At some point in the repair process you would have to get to the
back of the amplifier board in order to unsolder a faulty
component. That's not particularly easy on the T-series. Whether
you lift the chassis off the pedal board, (my preferred method) or
lift the circuit board off the chassis. There are a lot of wires
connected to that board. It is possible to work on the board
without disconnecting any wires, but if one accidentally gets
disconnected, then you have a new fault to trace.
On 07/12/2024 22:38, Ned Lucas via
groups.io wrote:
Haha, yeah, I’m thinking the same thing. I’ve kept my B3, C3 (x2)
and A100 running for 20 years but solid state stuff is new to me.
I’d hate to junk this but that may be the play here. I’be taken
the Leslie unit out to access the boards. The Leslie was
functioning alright ie it was firing up and spinning properly so I
guess someone will probably want it.?
?
Pin 17 and the collector of Q604 should be 25 volts DC (not
AC!) when measured with the negative lead of the meter to
ground (any point on the chassis) and positive to the point
where you're measuring. It should never be an AC voltage,
and certainly not 60 volts. Voltages around all the
transistors should in the first instance be measured as DC
voltages.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if you've bitten off
more than you can chew with this. From your comments, you
appear to have no understanding of what we are trying to do
here. I can't teach you all you need to know by email.
On 07/12/2024 17:56, Ned Lucas
via groups.io wrote:
Well, just looking at the voltages at Q604 (the transistor
with the heat sink),?
Pin #17 (which should be the Collector voltage of
+25vac) I’m reading +60vac. ?When I put the positive probe
on the C leg and the negative probe on the chassis I read
0 vac.?
On the Base and Emittor, I’m reading 0 vac.?
On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Ned
Lucas via groups.io <nedlucas@...>
wrote:
?
Thank you so much!
On Dec 7, 2024, at 4:31 AM,
Christoph via groups.io <kuku@...>
wrote:
?
Oh, typos:
unfortunately. I just wanted
Am 07.12.2024 um 10:22 schrieb
Christoph via
< kuku@...>:
Ned,
did you check the power supply
voltages ??
Funnily, the other day I was
able to download?
the T-500 Service manual from?.
Unfotunately I forgot to
download part II, which contains most of
the circuit diagrams. I kusted wanted to
lookup the points where to measure the
15 and 35V.
unfortunately. I just wanted ... ?15 and 25V
When I try to dowload it now
I‘m getting
?Item not available due to
issues with theitem‘s content“ Anyone
knowing an alternate source?
—
Christoph?
--
--
|
Re: Looking for Chris Clifton
Obviously there is something seriously wrong with this organ if I’m getting 60vac at pin 17.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2024, at 5:38 PM, Ned <nedlucas@...> wrote:
? Haha, yeah, I’m thinking the same thing. I’ve kept my B3, C3 (x2) and A100 running for 20 years but solid state stuff is new to me. I’d hate to junk this but that may be the play here. I’be taken the Leslie unit out to access the boards. The Leslie was functioning alright ie it was firing up and spinning properly so I guess someone will probably want it.? On Dec 7, 2024, at 3:49 PM, Chris Clifton via groups.io <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:
?
Pin 17 and the collector of Q604 should be 25 volts DC (not AC!)
when measured with the negative lead of the meter to ground (any
point on the chassis) and positive to the point where you're
measuring. It should never be an AC voltage, and certainly not 60
volts. Voltages around all the transistors should in the first
instance be measured as DC voltages.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if you've bitten off more
than you can chew with this. From your comments, you appear to
have no understanding of what we are trying to do here. I can't
teach you all you need to know by email.
On 07/12/2024 17:56, Ned Lucas via
groups.io wrote:
Well, just looking at the voltages at Q604 (the transistor with
the heat sink),?
Pin #17 (which should be the Collector voltage of +25vac) I’m
reading +60vac. ?When I put the positive probe on the C leg and
the negative probe on the chassis I read 0 vac.?
On the Base and Emittor, I’m reading 0 vac.?
On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Ned Lucas
via groups.io <nedlucas@...>
wrote:
?
Thank you so much!
On Dec 7, 2024, at 4:31 AM,
Christoph via groups.io
<kuku@...> wrote:
?
Oh, typos:
unfortunately. I just wanted
Am 07.12.2024 um 10:22 schrieb
Christoph via
< kuku@...>:
Ned,
did you check the power supply
voltages ??
Funnily, the other day I was able to
download?
the T-500 Service manual from?.
Unfotunately I forgot to download
part II, which contains most of the circuit
diagrams. I kusted wanted to lookup the points
where to measure the 15 and 35V.
unfortunately. I just wanted ... ?15 and 25V
When I try to dowload it now I‘m
getting
?Item not available due to issues
with theitem‘s content“ Anyone knowing an
alternate source?
—
Christoph?
--
|
Re: Looking for Chris Clifton
Haha, yeah, I’m thinking the same thing. I’ve kept my B3, C3 (x2) and A100 running for 20 years but solid state stuff is new to me. I’d hate to junk this but that may be the play here. I’be taken the Leslie unit out to access the boards. The Leslie was functioning alright ie it was firing up and spinning properly so I guess someone will probably want it.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2024, at 3:49 PM, Chris Clifton via groups.io <clifton.christopher@...> wrote:
?
Pin 17 and the collector of Q604 should be 25 volts DC (not AC!)
when measured with the negative lead of the meter to ground (any
point on the chassis) and positive to the point where you're
measuring. It should never be an AC voltage, and certainly not 60
volts. Voltages around all the transistors should in the first
instance be measured as DC voltages.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if you've bitten off more
than you can chew with this. From your comments, you appear to
have no understanding of what we are trying to do here. I can't
teach you all you need to know by email.
On 07/12/2024 17:56, Ned Lucas via
groups.io wrote:
Well, just looking at the voltages at Q604 (the transistor with
the heat sink),?
Pin #17 (which should be the Collector voltage of +25vac) I’m
reading +60vac. ?When I put the positive probe on the C leg and
the negative probe on the chassis I read 0 vac.?
On the Base and Emittor, I’m reading 0 vac.?
On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Ned Lucas
via groups.io <nedlucas@...>
wrote:
?
Thank you so much!
On Dec 7, 2024, at 4:31 AM,
Christoph via groups.io
<kuku@...> wrote:
?
Oh, typos:
unfortunately. I just wanted
Am 07.12.2024 um 10:22 schrieb
Christoph via
< kuku@...>:
Ned,
did you check the power supply
voltages ??
Funnily, the other day I was able to
download?
the T-500 Service manual from?.
Unfotunately I forgot to download
part II, which contains most of the circuit
diagrams. I kusted wanted to lookup the points
where to measure the 15 and 35V.
unfortunately. I just wanted ... ?15 and 25V
When I try to dowload it now I‘m
getting
?Item not available due to issues
with theitem‘s content“ Anyone knowing an
alternate source?
—
Christoph?
--
|
Re: Looking for Chris Clifton
Pin 17 and the collector of Q604 should be 25 volts DC (not AC!)
when measured with the negative lead of the meter to ground (any
point on the chassis) and positive to the point where you're
measuring. It should never be an AC voltage, and certainly not 60
volts. Voltages around all the transistors should in the first
instance be measured as DC voltages.
To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if you've bitten off more
than you can chew with this. From your comments, you appear to
have no understanding of what we are trying to do here. I can't
teach you all you need to know by email.
On 07/12/2024 17:56, Ned Lucas via
groups.io wrote:
Well, just looking at the voltages at Q604 (the transistor with
the heat sink),?
Pin #17 (which should be the Collector voltage of +25vac) I’m
reading +60vac. ?When I put the positive probe on the C leg and
the negative probe on the chassis I read 0 vac.?
On the Base and Emittor, I’m reading 0 vac.?
On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Ned Lucas
via groups.io <nedlucas@...>
wrote:
?
Thank you so much!
On Dec 7, 2024, at 4:31 AM,
Christoph via groups.io
<kuku@...> wrote:
?
Oh, typos:
unfortunately. I just wanted
Am 07.12.2024 um 10:22 schrieb
Christoph via
< kuku@...>:
Ned,
did you check the power supply
voltages ??
Funnily, the other day I was able to
download?
the T-500 Service manual from?.
Unfotunately I forgot to download
part II, which contains most of the circuit
diagrams. I kusted wanted to lookup the points
where to measure the 15 and 35V.
unfortunately. I just wanted ... ?15 and 25V
When I try to dowload it now I‘m
getting
?Item not available due to issues
with theitem‘s content“ Anyone knowing an
alternate source?
—
Christoph?
--
|
Dave Hawnt
Christoph
Dennis Wage (N9OQ)
