Re: Tonewheel Generator - BEARINGS
Although I've come across several instances of noisy, and even
seized bearings, these have all responded to lubrication. Often
the best way to get oil where it's needed without waiting for it
to make its way through the oiling wicks is to use a syringe to
apply a drop of oil directly to each bearing. Depending on the
model of organ it may be necessary to disconnect some of the
wiring to the generator to be able to move the generator to get
access to the underside.
I doubt that there is any practicable way of replacing bearings,
the amount of work involved in dismantling, and more importantly
reassembling a generator would make it difficult if not impossible
to replace bearings. Indeed, I'm by no means certain that it's
even possible to reassemble a generator without the original
factory tooling and jigs. I'd consider any tone wheel generator
that had bearings so badly worn as to require replacement as
beyond economic repair
On 02/02/2023 18:07, Wayne Tarling via
groups.io wrote:.
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Hello Community
I haven't heard much about
"bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages
about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about
"failed bearings".
Considering there are some
144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed"
bearing?? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se.
I won't go into a lot of
detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix.
If more information is
needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the
problem is and what I have done ....so far.
Regards to all.
Wayne
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Tonewheel Generator - BEARINGS
Hello Community
I haven't heard much about "bearing problems" in any of the discussions. A few messages about Hammond lube (which I have lots of), but nothing about "failed bearings".
Considering there are some 144 or more bearings, has anyone had a problem with a "failed" bearing?? If so, is there any easy "fix" per se.
I won't go into a lot of detail yet, particularly if there is indeed an easy fix.
If more information is needed, I can certainly provide a lot more detail of what the problem is and what I have done ....so far.
Regards to all. Wayne
|
any hammond friends in the kc area / please contact me i may have a few items on interest.? gil
I like tonewheel general hospital
On 11/8/2022 5:00 PM, Gesine wrote:
And a corollary --
where to order Hammond oil?
I see B&H and other places have a Hammond Suzuki product
that says it is Hammond oil -- want to check with you peeps,
since this looks very different than the Hammond oil in the long
thin tube, that we bought for many years from Hammond --
Thanks!? Gesine ?
?
--
Rich Reid
208-861-9263
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Christoph,
no, it's the 8th (grey) drawbar, according to the installation manual. The 9th drawbar keeps untouched. I added one more wire that I soldered to this DB and runs into the unit. The SPDT switch allows me to connect the 8th busbar either to the unit's trigger input when percussion is on, or to the 8th DB with perc off.
Best regards!
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Uwe, you mean, 9th Drawbar when switched ?on“? I don‘t quite get it. :) — Christoph?
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Am 13.12.2022 um 15:57 schrieb Uwe Menrath <uwe.menrath@...>:
?Forgot to mention that I also installed the Trek II unit to my C-2 instead of doing the maximum sugery. Sounds fine! In addition, I added a switch to the unit that allows me to turn on percussion deliberately and doesn't omit the 8th drawbar when switched off.
Best regards!
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Forgot to mention that I also installed the Trek II unit to my C-2 instead of doing the maximum sugery. Sounds fine! In addition, I added a switch to the unit that allows me to turn on percussion deliberately and doesn't omit the 8th drawbar when switched off.
Best regards!
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Oh, thanks for the correction!
On 12/10/2022 12:15 PM, b3nut wrote:
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The percussion from the Trek II only gets vibrato
applied in V series organs. In the 2 series the perc signal goes
in post-scanner at the terminal the output of the scanner feeds
into, essentially the same as the 3 series does internally.?
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
The percussion from the Trek II only gets vibrato applied in V series organs. In the 2 series the perc signal goes in post-scanner at the terminal the output of the scanner feeds into, essentially the same as the 3 series does internally.?
On Dec 9, 2022 9:12 AM, Scott Hawthorn <organfreak@...> wrote:
It is almost exactly the same, because the percussion sound comes
from the same source as the Hammond percussion: the actual tone
generator tones. The reason that people say it sounds different is
that if the vibrato is 'on,' the percussion also gets "vibratoe-d"
instead of coming through the straight channel. That's never
bothered me. For me, the defect is something else: You cannot
preset the volume of it before switching it on. So if you
miss-estimate where to put the slider, it can come on at a volume
you didn't plan-for.?
I ran this by Mike Smoke, the Trek II inventor, and once he
understood my suggestion, finally, he said there wasn't enough
room on the box to install an on/off? switch!
On 12/9/2022 6:51 AM, mrk7421 via
groups.io wrote:
I am considering just
doing a " quicky" preamp conversion.....I would just add the
percussion switches and probably set them on top of the organ.
Someone mentioned that the TrekII sound is not the same....
that is my concern.. I tend to favor slow percussion decay. I
would hate to spend 300 bucks and find out I don't like it
So I just want to wire up a AO28 and the switches and just
get it to work.
I am not a tech but I have a tech who will help me . But I
am just curious if anyone has done this and could offer some
info
Thanks .... Mark
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Mark, I had a C2 with smooth drawbars and Trek percussion and it was one of the best sounding Hammonds I’ve ever played.. I know of other payers who have, or have played, C2’s who would agree.. I found no difference between the Hammond and Trek percussion.. Trek is actually better if you like the 5th harmonic and it’s adjustability.. go with the Trek. Craig
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Thanks for mentioning that, I have a trek 2. ?I’ve never hooked it up, but I need to set that up I’d love to be able to adjust Percussion decay on the fly. My favorite sound is the percussion second harmonic slow with the tremolo on the scanner vibrato. It’s
perfect for intros of haunting songs :-)
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On Dec 9, 2022, at 09:36, Scott Hawthorn <organfreak@...> wrote:
?
I just remembered to add: On the Trek II, you can make the decay as slow as you want.
But there are other trick that have been on records by Don Patterson, Jack McDuff and Jimmy Smith, and others, to make the percussion harmonic seem to linger longer. You can pull out some of that drawbar so that that tone lingers longer. Another thins that's
sometimes done is to slow down the decay by turning the percussion decay knob on the back of the AO-28. You can also add a pot in place of the percussion volume resistor that's under the shielded box that's in the middle of the preamp. The bigger that resistor
value is, the louder it will be.
On 12/9/2022 7:12 AM, Scott Hawthorn wrote:
It is almost exactly the same, because the percussion sound comes from the same source as the Hammond percussion: the actual tone generator tones. The reason that people say it sounds different is that if the vibrato is 'on,' the percussion also gets "vibratoe-d"
instead of coming through the straight channel. That's never bothered me. For me, the defect is something else: You cannot preset the volume of it before switching it on. So if you miss-estimate where to put the slider, it can come on at a volume you didn't
plan-for.?
I ran this by Mike Smoke, the Trek II inventor, and once he understood my suggestion, finally, he said there wasn't enough room on the box to install an on/off? switch!
On 12/9/2022 6:51 AM, mrk7421 via groups.io wrote:
I am considering just doing a " quicky" preamp conversion.....I would just add the percussion switches and probably set them on top of the organ.
Someone mentioned that the TrekII sound is not the same.... that is my concern.. I tend to favor slow percussion decay. I would hate to spend 300 bucks and find out I don't like it
So I just want to wire up a AO28 and the switches and just get it to work.
I am not a tech but I have a tech who will help me . But I am just curious if anyone has done this and could offer some info
Thanks .... Mark
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
I just remembered to add: On the Trek II, you can make the decay
as slow as you want.
But there are other trick that have been on records by Don
Patterson, Jack McDuff and Jimmy Smith, and others, to make the
percussion harmonic seem to linger longer. You can pull out some
of that drawbar so that that tone lingers longer. Another thins
that's sometimes done is to slow down the decay by turning the
percussion decay knob on the back of the AO-28. You can also add a
pot in place of the percussion volume resistor that's under the
shielded box that's in the middle of the preamp. The bigger that
resistor value is, the louder it will be.
On 12/9/2022 7:12 AM, Scott Hawthorn
wrote:
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Show quoted text
It is almost exactly the same, because the percussion sound
comes from the same source as the Hammond percussion: the actual
tone generator tones. The reason that people say it sounds
different is that if the vibrato is 'on,' the percussion also
gets "vibratoe-d" instead of coming through the straight
channel. That's never bothered me. For me, the defect is
something else: You cannot preset the volume of it before
switching it on. So if you miss-estimate where to put the
slider, it can come on at a volume you didn't plan-for.?
I ran this by Mike Smoke, the Trek II inventor, and once he
understood my suggestion, finally, he said there wasn't enough
room on the box to install an on/off? switch!
On 12/9/2022 6:51 AM, mrk7421 via
groups.io wrote:
I am considering just
doing a " quicky" preamp conversion.....I would just add the
percussion switches and probably set them on top of the organ.
Someone mentioned that the TrekII sound is not the
same.... that is my concern.. I tend to favor slow
percussion decay. I would hate to spend 300 bucks and find
out I don't like it
So I just want to wire up a AO28 and the switches and
just get it to work.
I am not a tech but I have a tech who will help me . But
I am just curious if anyone has done this and could offer
some info
Thanks .... Mark
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Have you considered buying a a-100? I love mind… they’re not super expensive?
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On Dec 9, 2022, at 08:51, mrk7421 via groups.io <MRK7421@...> wrote:
?
I am considering just doing a " quicky" preamp conversion.....I would just add the percussion switches and probably set them on top of the organ.
Someone mentioned that the TrekII sound is not the same.... that is my concern.. I tend to favor slow percussion decay. I would hate to spend 300 bucks and find out I don't like it
So I just want to wire up a AO28 and the switches and just get it to work.
I am not a tech but I have a tech who will help me . But I am just curious if anyone has done this and could offer some info
Thanks .... Mark
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
It is almost exactly the same, because the percussion sound comes
from the same source as the Hammond percussion: the actual tone
generator tones. The reason that people say it sounds different is
that if the vibrato is 'on,' the percussion also gets "vibratoe-d"
instead of coming through the straight channel. That's never
bothered me. For me, the defect is something else: You cannot
preset the volume of it before switching it on. So if you
miss-estimate where to put the slider, it can come on at a volume
you didn't plan-for.?
I ran this by Mike Smoke, the Trek II inventor, and once he
understood my suggestion, finally, he said there wasn't enough
room on the box to install an on/off? switch!
On 12/9/2022 6:51 AM, mrk7421 via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am considering just
doing a " quicky" preamp conversion.....I would just add the
percussion switches and probably set them on top of the organ.
Someone mentioned that the TrekII sound is not the same....
that is my concern.. I tend to favor slow percussion decay. I
would hate to spend 300 bucks and find out I don't like it
So I just want to wire up a AO28 and the switches and just
get it to work.
I am not a tech but I have a tech who will help me . But I
am just curious if anyone has done this and could offer some
info
Thanks .... Mark
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
I am considering just doing a " quicky" preamp conversion.....I would just add the percussion switches and probably set them on top of the organ.
Someone mentioned that the TrekII sound is not the same.... that is my concern.. I tend to favor slow percussion decay. I would hate to spend 300 bucks and find out I don't like it
So I just want to wire up a AO28 and the switches and just get it to work.
I am not a tech but I have a tech who will help me . But I am just curious if anyone has done this and could offer some info
Thanks .... Mark
|
Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Hi there, yes, there is a easy to install solution: the TrekII TP-2B Percussion unit. Fast and quite easy to install.? Not the same sound as the original thing, but quite good.? Advantages:
- adjustable levels for the harmonics.
- Easy to install
Disadvantages:
- You will loose one drawbar
I personally would prefer this method above with the TrekII. Because the C-2 is then still original. And not a Frankenstein C-3.? The C-2 is great sounding with the AO-10. For me slightly better fatter Sound than the AO-28. I had the same decisions two years ago. I decided to let her original. I had already bought everything for the big operation: - Drawbarbase unit - smooth drawbars (I had in mine C-2 the ratcheted) - Percussion Switches - Matching transformer? - the percussion switch under the B key - AO-28? Quite expensive. But my decision was against the full convert to a franken C-3. I just used the smooth drawbars. The C-2 is a great organ!? With the trekII also with adding of the percussion feature. And she remains original.? Best regards Gerhard
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Am I imagining things? I'm sure I've seen after market percussion
kits that can be added to C-2 organs without major surgery.
On 09/12/2022 10:03, Uwe Menrath wrote:
Hi Mark,
I've got a 1950 C-2, too, and I love it, due to it's beautiful
quatrefoil style cabinet. Didn't know there were non ratcheting
C-2's, though.
Of course it is possible to install an AO-28 preamp into your
organ. But it means major surgery: You'd also have to replace the
drawbar base by one from a B/C-3, A-100 or similar organ and to
get that percussion switch assembly also. The switch ass'y may
also come from a M-3. Last but not least you'd have to move the
start/run switches to another place. In other words: You'd convert
your organ into a C-3.
Good luck!
--
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Re: Adding PERCUSSION to 1954 C-2
Hi Mark,
I've got a 1950 C-2, too, and I love it, due to it's beautiful quatrefoil style cabinet. Didn't know there were non ratcheting C-2's, though.
Of course it is possible to install an AO-28 preamp into your organ. But it means major surgery: You'd also have to replace the drawbar base by one from a B/C-3, A-100 or similar organ and to get that percussion switch assembly also. The switch ass'y may also come from a M-3. Last but not least you'd have to move the start/run switches to another place. In other words: You'd convert your organ into a C-3.
Good luck!
|
Depending which country you live in, you will either need a standard 115v coil relay or 230v coil relay, with contacts rated for the purpose of running the motors in that type of Leslie. If you are determined to stick with a coil type relay, I recommend you just buy a new one of the correct type from your usual electronics supplier and fit it under the chassis.?
There are plenty of techs out there will have good used 115vac P&B open coil relays if you have a preference for ‘originality’ in this application, including me (I have a dozen or more but I’m in Australia and I suspect you’re not).?
However, I consider there's absolutely no reason to go looking for the original type and brand (not manufactured for many years now), and brand new modern coil relays are reliable.?
There are additional strategies to reduce the ‘pop’ associated with 147 switching if you find it still pops after replacing the relay. Solid state relays don’t solve the pop issue in some cases either, it’s about managing the switching transient into the inductive load (into the motors).
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Sirs,
A gentleman came to me needing to have a 147 amp repaired as it is making a huge pop when switching speeds. I will begin by replacing the two blocking caps wired to the motor outlets on the amp,along with a third cap wired across the octal plug and hopefully this will cure it. As I was checking the other components I noticed one set of points on the relay are very worn and pitted badly so I suggested this ahould also be replaced,which he agreed to. My go-to is always TWGH but I find no listing other than the solid state conversion. Are these original style relays all used up, and if so would I be wise to use the box type relay offered by Antique Electronics (Tubes and More)? I would rather not use the solid state unit having installed them on two seperate occasions a few years ago and both failed within a year,so I have little faith in them and prefer original style parts wherever possible.
Thank you in advance,
?John
|
Sirs,
A gentleman came to me needing to have a 147 amp repaired as it is making a huge pop when switching speeds. I will begin by replacing the two blocking caps wired to the motor outlets on the amp,along with a third cap wired across the octal plug and hopefully this will cure it. As I was checking the other components I noticed one set of points on the relay are very worn and pitted badly so I suggested this ahould also be replaced,which he agreed to. My go-to is always TWGH but I find no listing other than the solid state conversion. Are these original style relays all used up, and if so would I be wise to use the box type relay offered by Antique Electronics (Tubes and More)? I would rather not use the solid state unit having installed them on two seperate occasions a few years ago and both failed within a year,so I have little faith in them and prefer original style parts wherever possible.
Thank you in advance,
?John
|
I like tonewheel general hospital
On 11/8/2022 5:00 PM, Gesine wrote:
And a corollary --
where to order Hammond oil?
I see B&H and other places have a Hammond Suzuki product
that says it is Hammond oil -- want to check with you peeps,
since this looks very different than the Hammond oil in the long
thin tube, that we bought for many years from Hammond --
Thanks!? Gesine ?
?
--
Rich Reid
208-861-9263
|
Uwe Menrath
Christoph
Geoff