X-66 Series 12 Tone Cabinet Schematic
Greetings - would anyone happen to have a schematic for the series 12 tone cabinet for the X-66 organ?? Mainly interested in the connector pin out configurations and tone selector switch.
Thanks
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Re: Leslie fitting kit instructions.
From the Fishorgans site Chris provided -?
? I always found this helpful,?
You'll find? a wiring diagram for a typical 122 speed switching
kit as used with a C-3 here, .
Note that the 122 and 147 use different speed switching systems.
Although they both use the same type 6-pin cable their wiring
schemes are incompatible, dangerously so! The 251 is different
again, although it has more in common with the 147 than the 122.
Again, the differences make it dangerous to plug a 251 into a
connection meant for either of the other two, or vice versa.
This,
may be useful, a list of most, if not all, standard Leslie
connector kits with links to their wiring diagrams,
On 28/03/2020 20:42, Adrian Rose via
Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Guys,ive bought a rough old C3 ,145 and 222rv.(?750)
the console has a 428-13 box inside(which is for a 122 series),but
theres all sorts of wires loose coming out of it
Its only got a speed switch and no MEE.
So theres only one box not two in the console.
Has anyone on here got any wiring instructions for this.
Failing that ,anyone got a NOS 122 fitting kit ?
I have got a kit that came off an organ for a 251 ( 012617).Is
that wired the same.Of course i havnt got a wiring diagram for
that either.
Adrian
--
|
Re: Leslie fitting kit instructions.
You'll find? a wiring diagram for a typical 122 speed switching
kit as used with a C-3 here, .
Note that the 122 and 147 use different speed switching systems.
Although they both use the same type 6-pin cable their wiring
schemes are incompatible, dangerously so! The 251 is different
again, although it has more in common with the 147 than the 122.
Again, the differences make it dangerous to plug a 251 into a
connection meant for either of the other two, or vice versa.
This,
may be useful, a list of most, if not all, standard Leslie
connector kits with links to their wiring diagrams,
On 28/03/2020 20:42, Adrian Rose via
Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Guys,ive bought a rough old C3 ,145 and 222rv.(?750)
the console has a 428-13 box inside(which is for a 122 series),but
theres all sorts of wires loose coming out of it
Its only got a speed switch and no MEE.
So theres only one box not two in the console.
Has anyone on here got any wiring instructions for this.
Failing that ,anyone got a NOS 122 fitting kit ?
I have got a kit that came off an organ for a 251 ( 012617).Is
that wired the same.Of course i havnt got a wiring diagram for
that either.
Adrian
--
|
Leslie fitting kit instructions.
Hi Guys,ive bought a rough old C3 ,145 and 222rv.(?750)
the console has a 428-13 box inside(which is for a 122 series),but theres all sorts of wires loose coming out of it
Its only got a speed switch and no MEE.
So theres only one box not two in the console.
Has anyone on here got any wiring instructions for this.
Failing that ,anyone got a NOS 122 fitting kit ?
I have got a kit that came off an organ for a 251 ( 012617).Is that wired the same.Of course i havnt got a wiring diagram for that either.
Adrian
|
Re: Homemade Half Moon Footswitch
After my last post, I googled the LBB and looked at it on their
website. As you say it does have a two pole mains connector. As
the Leslie is powered through the LBB, it effectively also has a
two pole connector. I would say that the small shock you are
getting is almost certainly coming from the Leslie, due to the
charging current of the interwinding capacitance, rather than any
breakdown of insulation. The best work around, without going to
the trouble of providing a mains ground to the Leslie chassis, is
to find which way round the mains input plugs are fitted when you
don't get a shock, both the inlet to the LBB, and the wall plug.
Then mark the plugs so that you always fit them this way around.
Maybe Booker Labs will be happy to fit a three prong, grounded
mains inlet for you when they do the other mods. The only possible
downside of grounding old equipment with this problem is that
enough current may flow to ground to trip modern safety breakers.
You may remember the recent discussion about replacing the mains
wiring on a B-3. Some people said they always update to three
prong grounded mains connectors when rewiring, others said no
because of problems with safety circuit breakers tripping. There's
no easy answer to this, one of the joys of using vintage
electrical equipment! I well remember 40+ years ago when clubs
started fitting saftey circuit breakers to their stage power
supply to protect artistes, even brand new Hammonds and Leslies in
perfect working order could sometimes cause these circuit breakers
to trip out.
It's certainly not much of a shock. A little more so than licking
a 9V battery.
I'm glad, going by your explanation, that I'm having the pros look
it over. The LBB does, in fact, have a two-prong outlet. Next time
it happens, I'll have to test the Leslie itself with my
multimeter.
Many thanks!
--
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Re: Homemade Half Moon Footswitch
It's certainly not much of a shock. A little more so than licking a 9V battery.
I'm glad, going by your explanation, that I'm having the pros look it over. The LBB does, in fact, have a two-prong outlet. Next time it happens, I'll have to test the Leslie itself with my multimeter.
Many thanks!
|
Re: Homemade Half Moon Footswitch
Well, to start with, 12 volts isn't enough to give you a shock.
You could for example grab one terminal of a car battery with each
hand and not feel a thing, even with wet hands. Secondly, you're
not switching a high current 12 volt source to ground, you're
connecting 12 volts through a resistor to ground. When the switch
is open, this 12 volts is used to switch the internal logic of the
LBB to one state, when the switch closes the 12 volt input to the
logic becomes 0 volts and the logic changes state and operates the
internal switching? to change the Leslie speed.
If you're sometimes getting a small shock from the switch this
suggests that some AC mains current is getting to the chassis
ground of the Leslie or the LBB. This shouldn't be able to happen
if everything is properly grounded to a three pin power outlet. If
there was anything more than the slightest leakage, the safety
breaker on current house wiring systems would trip and cut the
power off. If you're using a two pin power oulet, it's not
uncommon for mains transformers in vintage equipment (such as a
122 Leslie) to have enough leakage (strictly speaking the charging
current of inter winding capacitance rather than an actual
connection) to cause sufficient AC voltage to appear on the
chassis of the Leslie, and thus the chassis of any connected
equipment, to cause a "tingling" sensation when the chassis is
touched.? If the two pin mains plug isn't polarised, you may well
find that you get a tingle with the plug in one way round but not
the other.
I just got off the phone with James and Tom at Booker Labs.
They heard about my post through the grapevine and have offered
to look the switch over while they’re modding my LBB.?
To satisfy your curiosity, though, it’s just an spdt footswitch
and a TRS jack in a tiny enclosure. The tip and ring are
connected to the outer lugs of the switch and the ground is
connected to the center lug. Thinking about it, what should
really surprise me is that it doesn’t always shock you, since
it’s sending 12V to ground either way. I’m clearly missing
something.?
Thanks for offering to help, regardless!?
Andrew
--
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Re: Homemade Half Moon Footswitch
I just got off the phone with James and Tom at Booker Labs. They heard about my post through the grapevine and have offered to look the switch over while they’re modding my LBB.?
To satisfy your curiosity, though, it’s just an spdt footswitch and a TRS jack in a tiny enclosure. The tip and ring are connected to the outer lugs of the switch and the ground is connected to the center lug. Thinking about it, what should really surprise me is that it doesn’t always shock you, since it’s sending 12V to ground either way. I’m clearly missing something.?
Thanks for offering to help, regardless!?
Andrew
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Re: Homemade Half Moon Footswitch
Please post a diagram of exactly what you have built, I have an LBB and will try to help you.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2020, at 16:25, andrew.bryce.howard@... wrote: I'm having a weird problem. I bought a Booker LBB to use my guitar with my Leslie 122. It works quite nicely. It requires a footswitch to change speeds. So I built one. The standard for the CU-1 Half Moon switches is that you ground either the tip or the ring to select fast/slow. Oddly, to my mind, what you're grounding is 12V. Now, sometimes, but only on occasion, those 12 volts will get passed into the casing of the footswitch and the cable connectors and give you a slight shock. How does the CU-1 handle this? Is the whole mechanism electrically isolated? Or am I missing some essential information about how this is meant to work? Why, for instance, doesn't it always shock me if it's passing 12V to ground no matter which speed is selected? I'm very confused. Thanks for any help you can give.
|
Homemade Half Moon Footswitch
I'm having a weird problem. I bought a Booker LBB to use my guitar with my Leslie 122. It works quite nicely. It requires a footswitch to change speeds. So I built one. The standard for the CU-1 Half Moon switches is that you ground either the tip or the ring to select fast/slow. Oddly, to my mind, what you're grounding is 12V. Now, sometimes, but only on occasion, those 12 volts will get passed into the casing of the footswitch and the cable connectors and give you a slight shock. How does the CU-1 handle this? Is the whole mechanism electrically isolated? Or am I missing some essential information about how this is meant to work? Why, for instance, doesn't it always shock me if it's passing 12V to ground no matter which speed is selected? I'm very confused. Thanks for any help you can give.
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Re: Hammond PR 40 Reverb Issues
Thank you one and all for the help and words of encouragement,it all helps. I was drawing from my guitar amp knowledge when I changed the transformer because if it were an output trans that far out of balance it would sound terrible,or worse. Is there an "off the shelf" transistor I can use? Other than using a heat sink when installing them I know very little and usually run scared. As for a better soldering iron Scott, I've gotten comfortable with my woodburning pencil with the rusty nail for a tip so i dont want to change and learn all over again,but good advice nonetheless.
Best Regards,
On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 11:12, Ali Asreco <aliasreco@...> wrote: Keep going John in all peace. Friday the 13th is the special lucky day here in France. So enjoy it!
Once in a while I pray to God about our Hammond... And God is good... Better than Friday the 13th.
Blessings?
Ali On Tue, 3 Mar 2020, 06:18 john alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io, <keysnleslie122= [email protected]> wrote: I was born on Friday the 13th. The amp cleaned up and quieted down nicely with the new caps and the bass was more full and round, but it was still noisy with reverb on so I probed further. I ended up replacing some plate load resistors and did much head scratching. I isolated the reverb transformer and its secondaries, then measured each to the center tap, brown/209 ohms and blue/279 ohms, so I swapped in a better unit measuring 229/245 ohms. These two actions cured the issue. I played it for 5 days with no problems,until tonite when I reinstalled it,sounded wonderful, then POP......! Reverb now MIA,except for some noise,and the return works when touching the springs, but with reverb off still good,nice and quiet. Should I give up or purchase a large hammer?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:09, j f Thank you Scott,
The kit arrived and I will perform the surgery later today, and report back.
Regards, ?John On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 0:30, Scott Hawthorn
Replace the caps with the kit from Tonewheel General Hospital.
On 2/16/2020 9:20 PM, john
alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io wrote:
Gentlemen,
I am hoping someone can shed some light on my issues, the primary
one being distortion and some "frying egg" noise. The distortion
is more pronounced on lower notes especially with multiple notes
played together. This occurs only when reverb is on. All tubes are
fine as tested in another PR 40 and I replaced the RCA cable from
necklace to amp. Two other minor issues, the reverb is switchable
using the chorale/tremolo switch. The console is outfitted with
the Trek II SS1 preamp if I remember the model correctly, the Trek
folks asked me some questions then said it was a very early model,
and lastly, the bass isn't as strong as on my other PR 40.
Tomorrow, with assistance I will try to confirm both 15"s are
working. In summary the unit plays clean with reverb off but gets
ugly when the reverb is on.
Thank You one and all,
?John
|
Re: Hammond PR 40 Reverb Issues
Keep going John in all peace. Friday the 13th is the special lucky day here in France. So enjoy it!
Once in a while I pray to God about our Hammond... And God is good... Better than Friday the 13th.
Blessings?
Ali
On Tue, 3 Mar 2020, 06:18 john alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io, <keysnleslie122= [email protected]> wrote: I was born on Friday the 13th. The amp cleaned up and quieted down nicely with the new caps and the bass was more full and round, but it was still noisy with reverb on so I probed further. I ended up replacing some plate load resistors and did much head scratching. I isolated the reverb transformer and its secondaries, then measured each to the center tap, brown/209 ohms and blue/279 ohms, so I swapped in a better unit measuring 229/245 ohms. These two actions cured the issue. I played it for 5 days with no problems,until tonite when I reinstalled it,sounded wonderful, then POP......! Reverb now MIA,except for some noise,and the return works when touching the springs, but with reverb off still good,nice and quiet. Should I give up or purchase a large hammer?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:09, j f Thank you Scott,
The kit arrived and I will perform the surgery later today, and report back.
Regards, ?John On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 0:30, Scott Hawthorn
Replace the caps with the kit from Tonewheel General Hospital.
On 2/16/2020 9:20 PM, john
alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io wrote:
Gentlemen,
I am hoping someone can shed some light on my issues, the primary
one being distortion and some "frying egg" noise. The distortion
is more pronounced on lower notes especially with multiple notes
played together. This occurs only when reverb is on. All tubes are
fine as tested in another PR 40 and I replaced the RCA cable from
necklace to amp. Two other minor issues, the reverb is switchable
using the chorale/tremolo switch. The console is outfitted with
the Trek II SS1 preamp if I remember the model correctly, the Trek
folks asked me some questions then said it was a very early model,
and lastly, the bass isn't as strong as on my other PR 40.
Tomorrow, with assistance I will try to confirm both 15"s are
working. In summary the unit plays clean with reverb off but gets
ugly when the reverb is on.
Thank You one and all,
?John
|
Re: Leslies for an H-100 and R-100
Both are single channel Leslies, and the organs are two channel.
The short answer is that neither is a good match for either organ.
However, there was a 122 kit made for connecting the 122 to an
H-100. Basically the kit took the two channels available at the
tone cabinet outlet of the H mixed them together and amplified
them to a suitable level (the tone cabinet outlets have a much
lower level than typically required for a leslie) and provided
speed switching control. Presumably, the same principle could be
applied to connecting the 860, or indeed almost any other single
channel Leslie. I don't believe that there ever was an "off the
peg" kit.
The R-100 really does require a two channel Leslie, 700, 710, 720
or HL722/822 would suit. I've also seen R-100's connected to 610
Leslies, (one of the few organs a 610 is good for!)
On 03/03/2020 15:42, Anthony Leeman
wrote:
There are 2 available a 122 and an 860. Is either one a for either
organ?
?
--
|
Re: Leslies for an H-100 and R-100
|
Leslies for an H-100 and R-100
There are 2 available a 122 and an 860. Is either one a for either organ?
?
|
Re: Hammond PR 40 Reverb Issues
I did not follow this. thread in full but since I’m being at revising some PR40s at the moment, I found that one cause for noisy or weak reverb can be the transistor 2N306? in the receiver circuit of the spring reverb (AO-33-1). The 100uF emitter capacitor often is anoter culprit. I dropped in some standard silicon NPN transistor with an hfe (current gain) of 100-300 and it made reverb come back.?
BTW, it is totally normal that the Ohm values of the primary windings differ. Important is the winding ratio. And this is a constant. The difference in the ?ohmage“ is that the windings are stacked one upon the other with the circumference changing resultig in different wire lenghts for either winding.
So changing the OT is a shot in the dark.
— Christoph
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Or maybe a better soldering iron?
On 3/2/2020 9:18 PM, john
alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io wrote:
I was born on Friday the 13th. The amp cleaned up and quieted down
nicely with the new caps and the bass was more full and round, but
it was still noisy with reverb on so I probed further. I ended up
replacing some plate load resistors and did much head scratching.
I isolated the reverb transformer and its secondaries, then
measured each to the center tap, brown/209 ohms and blue/279 ohms,
so I swapped in a better unit measuring 229/245 ohms. These two
actions cured the issue. I played it for 5 days with no
problems,until tonite when I reinstalled it,sounded wonderful,
then POP......! Reverb now MIA,except for some noise,and the
return works when touching the springs, but with reverb off still
good,nice and quiet. Should I give up or purchase a large hammer?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:09, j f
Thank you Scott,
The kit
arrived and I will perform the surgery later today, and
report back.
Regards,
?John
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 0:30, Scott Hawthorn
Replace the caps with the kit from Tonewheel
General Hospital.
On
2/16/2020 9:20 PM, john alluneedtoknow via
Groups.Io wrote:
Gentlemen,
I am hoping someone can shed some light on my
issues, the primary one being distortion and some
"frying egg" noise. The distortion is more
pronounced on lower notes especially with multiple
notes played together. This occurs only when reverb
is on. All tubes are fine as tested in another PR 40
and I replaced the RCA cable from necklace to amp.
Two other minor issues, the reverb is switchable
using the chorale/tremolo switch. The console is
outfitted with the Trek II SS1 preamp if I remember
the model correctly, the Trek folks asked me some
questions then said it was a very early model, and
lastly, the bass isn't as strong as on my other PR
40. Tomorrow, with assistance I will try to confirm
both 15"s are working. In summary the unit plays
clean with reverb off but gets ugly when the reverb
is on.
Thank You one and all,
?John
|
Re: Hammond PR 40 Reverb Issues
Or maybe a better soldering iron?
On 3/2/2020 9:18 PM, john
alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I was born on Friday the 13th. The amp cleaned up and quieted down
nicely with the new caps and the bass was more full and round, but
it was still noisy with reverb on so I probed further. I ended up
replacing some plate load resistors and did much head scratching.
I isolated the reverb transformer and its secondaries, then
measured each to the center tap, brown/209 ohms and blue/279 ohms,
so I swapped in a better unit measuring 229/245 ohms. These two
actions cured the issue. I played it for 5 days with no
problems,until tonite when I reinstalled it,sounded wonderful,
then POP......! Reverb now MIA,except for some noise,and the
return works when touching the springs, but with reverb off still
good,nice and quiet. Should I give up or purchase a large hammer?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:09, j f
Thank you Scott,
The kit
arrived and I will perform the surgery later today, and
report back.
Regards,
?John
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 0:30, Scott Hawthorn
Replace the caps with the kit from Tonewheel
General Hospital.
On
2/16/2020 9:20 PM, john alluneedtoknow via
Groups.Io wrote:
Gentlemen,
I am hoping someone can shed some light on my
issues, the primary one being distortion and some
"frying egg" noise. The distortion is more
pronounced on lower notes especially with multiple
notes played together. This occurs only when reverb
is on. All tubes are fine as tested in another PR 40
and I replaced the RCA cable from necklace to amp.
Two other minor issues, the reverb is switchable
using the chorale/tremolo switch. The console is
outfitted with the Trek II SS1 preamp if I remember
the model correctly, the Trek folks asked me some
questions then said it was a very early model, and
lastly, the bass isn't as strong as on my other PR
40. Tomorrow, with assistance I will try to confirm
both 15"s are working. In summary the unit plays
clean with reverb off but gets ugly when the reverb
is on.
Thank You one and all,
?John
|
Re: Hammond PR 40 Reverb Issues
I was born on Friday the 13th. The amp cleaned up and quieted down nicely with the new caps and the bass was more full and round, but it was still noisy with reverb on so I probed further. I ended up replacing some plate load resistors and did much head scratching. I isolated the reverb transformer and its secondaries, then measured each to the center tap, brown/209 ohms and blue/279 ohms, so I swapped in a better unit measuring 229/245 ohms. These two actions cured the issue. I played it for 5 days with no problems,until tonite when I reinstalled it,sounded wonderful, then POP......! Reverb now MIA,except for some noise,and the return works when touching the springs, but with reverb off still good,nice and quiet. Should I give up or purchase a large hammer?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:09, j f <keysnleslie122@...> wrote: Thank you Scott,
The kit arrived and I will perform the surgery later today, and report back.
Regards, ?John On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 0:30, Scott Hawthorn <organfreak@...> wrote:
Replace the caps with the kit from Tonewheel General Hospital.
On 2/16/2020 9:20 PM, john
alluneedtoknow via Groups.Io wrote:
Gentlemen,
I am hoping someone can shed some light on my issues, the primary
one being distortion and some "frying egg" noise. The distortion
is more pronounced on lower notes especially with multiple notes
played together. This occurs only when reverb is on. All tubes are
fine as tested in another PR 40 and I replaced the RCA cable from
necklace to amp. Two other minor issues, the reverb is switchable
using the chorale/tremolo switch. The console is outfitted with
the Trek II SS1 preamp if I remember the model correctly, the Trek
folks asked me some questions then said it was a very early model,
and lastly, the bass isn't as strong as on my other PR 40.
Tomorrow, with assistance I will try to confirm both 15"s are
working. In summary the unit plays clean with reverb off but gets
ugly when the reverb is on.
Thank You one and all,
?John
|
Re: Unknown hammond organ
#built
Piano Mover picking up in North Florida on Wednesday. Gotta get it to Central Florida.
You seem to have succeeded!
That is an H-100 series Hammond. There were two versions of the
H-100 series, those with serial numbers below 15,000, which had an
all valve (tube) amplification system, and those with serial
numbers above 15,000 in which some pre-amplifier functions are
transistorised. All models had valve power amplifiers however.
There was also an HX model, same electronics but with a "split"
style cabinet with the keyboards section supported on two chrome
pillars above the bass pedal section. The HX had no built in
speakers and needed a matching external passive speaker cabinet.
On 02/03/2020 13:39, Anthony Leeman
wrote:
can't seem to post a picture to old to understand how
?
?
--
|
Re: Low output of lower manual low octave of B3
I had the same issue with?a customer's B3, and spent hours troubleshooting, and even removing the matching transformer and deGaussing it.? No luck.? Got a donnor matching transformer from another organ and it fixed the?problem.? Not saying this is the problem your having but once you exhaust all other possibilities, keep this in mind. You should replace the resistors and cap in the Matching tranny first. Jay's Organ Service
On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 4:04 PM Randall via Groups.Io <ogaci54= [email protected]> wrote: I know this has been asked many times, and have heard something about the "foldback", but, what should I look for when it comes to low volume level on the lower manual notes between the lowest C and the next C ? I cannot do a nice walking bass as it barely audible with normal settings.
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Anthony Leeman
Christoph
Jay