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Since we seem to have some options for proper HV connectors, what about wire?? My amp has a separate power supply and the interconnect cable it came with is not the original, and I highly suspect it's not up to safely delivering ~3kV.? I anticipated coming up with a bundle (11 conductors as I recall) plus HV and grounded shield that used some kind of silicone wire for B+ and teflon for the rest but haven't done any research on this yet.? What would be the prevailing wisdom for ~6ft of B+ cable?? Separately shielded within the bundle?? Extra isolation between wires with sheathing?? I have NO IDEA what best practice is for this configuration and no real world example to follow.
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Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Mark, I have never looked into this but what about solid spark plug wires? I know you can buy that in bulk and the quality? is all over the board. Usually?the quality of the wire itself is fine but the insulation is the variable. What do you think? Bob W4JFA
On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 8:19?AM Mark Brueggemann K5LXP via <qrq_cw= [email protected]> wrote:
Since we seem to have some options for proper HV connectors, what about wire?? My amp has a separate power supply and the interconnect cable it came with is not the original, and I highly suspect it's not up to safely delivering ~3kV.? I anticipated coming up with a bundle (11 conductors as I recall) plus HV and grounded shield that used some kind of silicone wire for B+ and teflon for the rest but haven't done any research on this yet.? What would be the prevailing wisdom for ~6ft of B+ cable?? Separately shielded within the bundle?? Extra isolation between wires with sheathing?? I have NO IDEA what best practice is for this configuration and no real world example to follow.
?
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Spark plug wire is ok so long as it is not of the ‘resistive’ type, (I’m dating myself with that!). For all my projects above 1KV, I use boiler igniter wire. This stuff is good to 20KV and has a silicon insulation. I’ve use other that was sort-of ‘double insulated’, (main insulation with an outer jacket). But that was extremely stiff and I often though if too tight a bend were made, the insulation would break! I’d hit the local auto parts jobber to see what they have available or maybe an electrical store. Also on an afterthought, some test-lead cable is also rated to 6KV. A few options for you. ? Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire ? Mark, I have never looked into this but what about solid spark plug wires? I know you can buy that in bulk and the quality? is all over the board. Usually?the quality of the wire itself is fine but the insulation is the variable. ?
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? Hello Mark
?
??Have a look?at Peter's web site .
? He stocks the HRG58-20-2 cable made by the German company Hivolt.de, which is rated to 20kV.
? He will also advise on suitable connectors to go with it and can also provide ready made cable assemblies.
?
??
?
? I always like to have plenty of headroom when dealing with 5kV or over.
?
? 73s Tracey G5VU
?
?
?
?
?
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----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Brueggemann K5LXP via groups.io < qrq_cw@...>
Sent: 23/11/2024 13:19:57
Subject: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire
Since we seem to have some options for proper HV connectors, what about wire?? My amp has a separate power supply and the interconnect cable it came with is not the original, and I highly suspect it's not up to safely delivering ~3kV.? I anticipated coming up with a bundle (11 conductors as I recall) plus HV and grounded shield that used some kind of silicone wire for B+ and teflon for the rest but haven't done any research on this yet.? What would be the prevailing wisdom for ~6ft of B+ cable?? Separately shielded within the bundle?? Extra isolation between wires with sheathing?? I have NO IDEA what best practice is for this configuration and no real world example to follow.
?
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Solid spark plug wires are not resistive wires. You have a good point about being stiff. I now remember buying some bulk plug wires that were stranded, not resistive wire. I now remember making a set for a boat engine. Check this link...
Some are resistive and some are not. The more I think about it, the more I feel that they can work.
Bob W4JFA
Spark plug wire is ok so long as it is not of the ‘resistive’ type, (I’m dating myself with that!). For all my projects above 1KV, I use boiler igniter wire. This stuff is good to 20KV and has a silicon insulation. I’ve use other that was sort-of ‘double insulated’, (main insulation with an outer jacket). But that was extremely stiff and I often though if too tight a bend were made, the insulation would break! I’d hit the local auto parts jobber to see what they have available or maybe an electrical store. Also on an afterthought, some test-lead cable is also rated to 6KV. A few options for you. ? Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob via
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire ? Mark, I have never looked into this but what about solid spark plug wires? I know you can buy that in bulk and the quality? is all over the board. Usually?the quality of the wire itself is fine but the insulation is the variable. ?
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I have substituted neon light hv wire ( inside a conduit? ) for a 12KV@ 3Amps? feed on a Continental FM transmitter.? It's lasted 12 years so far.
W4DNR
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On 2024-11-23 7:37 am, Mike Sawyer via groups.io wrote:
Spark plug wire is ok so long as it is not of the 'resistive' type, (I'm dating myself with that!). For all my projects above 1KV, I use boiler igniter wire. This stuff is good to 20KV and has a silicon insulation. I've use other that was sort-of 'double insulated', (main insulation with an outer jacket). But that was extremely stiff and I often though if too tight a bend were made, the insulation would break! I'd hit the local auto parts jobber to see what they have available or maybe an electrical store. Also on an afterthought, some test-lead cable is also rated to 6KV. A few options for you.
?
Mod-U-Lator,
Mike(y)/W3SLK
?
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire
?
Mark, I have never looked into this but what about solid spark plug wires? I know you can buy that in bulk and the quality?
is all over the board. Usually?the quality of the wire itself is fine but the insulation is the variable.
?
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Belden does make an 8 mm silicone solid wire spark plug wire.? You can buy the wire in bulk.? It's probaly the same stuff that Summit is selling.? For those that don't know, Summit and DX eng. are both owned by Tim Duffy
Kim Herron W8ZV kim.herron@... 1-616-677-3706
On Saturday, November 23, 2024 at 11:46:23 AM EST, Bob via groups.io <w4jfabob@...> wrote:
Solid spark plug wires are not resistive wires. You have a good point about being stiff. I now remember buying some bulk plug wires that were stranded, not resistive wire. I now remember making a set for a boat engine. Check this link...
Some are resistive and some are not. The more I think about it, the more I feel that they can work.
Bob W4JFA
Spark plug wire is ok so long as it is not of the ‘resistive’ type, (I’m dating myself with that!). For all my projects above 1KV, I use boiler igniter wire. This stuff is good to 20KV and has a silicon insulation. I’ve use other that was sort-of ‘double insulated’, (main insulation with an outer jacket). But that was extremely stiff and I often though if too tight a bend were made, the insulation would break! I’d hit the local auto parts jobber to see what they have available or maybe an electrical store. Also on an afterthought, some test-lead cable is also rated to 6KV. A few options for you. ? Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob via
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire ? Mark, I have never looked into this but what about solid spark plug wires? I know you can buy that in bulk and the quality? is all over the board. Usually?the quality of the wire itself is fine but the insulation is the variable. ?
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I believe Tim is the president not the owner of DX Engineering.
Belden does make an 8 mm silicone solid wire spark plug wire.? You can buy the wire in bulk.? It's probaly the same stuff that Summit is selling.? For those that don't know, Summit and DX eng. are both owned by Tim Duffy
Kim Herron W8ZV kim.herron@... 1-616-677-3706
On Saturday, November 23, 2024 at 11:46:23 AM EST, Bob via groups.io <w4jfabob@...> wrote:
Solid spark plug wires are not resistive wires. You have a good point about being stiff. I now remember buying some bulk plug wires that were stranded, not resistive wire. I now remember making a set for a boat engine. Check this link...
Some are resistive and some are not. The more I think about it, the more I feel that they can work.
Bob W4JFA
Spark plug wire is ok so long as it is not of the ‘resistive’ type, (I’m dating myself with that!). For all my projects above 1KV, I use boiler igniter wire. This stuff is good to 20KV and has a silicon insulation. I’ve use other that was sort-of ‘double insulated’, (main insulation with an outer jacket). But that was extremely stiff and I often though if too tight a bend were made, the insulation would break! I’d hit the local auto parts jobber to see what they have available or maybe an electrical store. Also on an afterthought, some test-lead cable is also rated to 6KV. A few options for you. ? Mod-U-Lator, Mike(y)/W3SLK ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob via
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2024 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire ? Mark, I have never looked into this but what about solid spark plug wires? I know you can buy that in bulk and the quality? is all over the board. Usually?the quality of the wire itself is fine but the insulation is the variable. ?
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Using spark plug wire sounds clever but any spec I found for it shows "spiral wound" or "copper alloy" conductors rated in ohms per foot.? So even seeming "solid core" wires are intentionally providing some kind of resistance or impedance for that application.? What I was hoping for is a specific wire folks have seen used in existing designs, e.g. Belden XXXX implying it was qualified or at least used with some success for this application.? The Drake amp has a separate power supply - what does it use for HV?? What do contemporary amps use in their HV supply, even for short interconnects?
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Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Dear Mark,
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Here is a picture of the HV cable I use in most all of my
amplifier build projects, mostly for the internal, point-to-point
Anode circuitry.
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The Specs are:
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SUPRENANT CABLE? CORPORATION
#20 AWG Tinned, Stranded
105 degree C.
40 KV Max
Style 3239
VW-1 or CSA
TV-40
XLPVC
BSI 197906
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I get reels of this at a time, and Surplus Sales
of Nebraska is my go-to supplier.
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The heavier broadcast class amplifiers all use
10 AWG Stranded, but that’s strictly for
cabinet-to-cabinet flexibles.
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’73,
?
Hal Mandel
W4HBM
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Years ago I built a supply for a L4B amp. Someone on Ebay was selling the cables that Drake used. It has control wires plus the high voltage cable in one sheath. Mike
Using spark plug wire sounds clever but any spec I found for it shows "spiral wound" or "copper alloy" conductors rated in ohms per foot.? So even seeming "solid core" wires are intentionally providing some kind of resistance or impedance for that application.? What I was hoping for is a specific wire folks have seen used in existing designs, e.g. Belden XXXX implying it was qualified or at least used with some success for this application.? The Drake amp has a separate power supply - what does it use for HV?? What do contemporary amps use in their HV supply, even for short interconnects?
?
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Red 7mm solid copper core spark plug ignition wire sold by the foot Made in USA
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US $1.58/FT
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This wire also comes in other colors.
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I have not used this particular wire so I cannot rate it.? But “most” sparkplug wire is rated at (+,-) 40KV and some much higher.? One could call Ton’s Performance
and verify the voltage rating.
The wire would also have to stand up to rapid pulses.
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I have a roll of similar wire I use in refurbishing SB-220 and other similar amps as well as my two Henry #K premier amps. The henry’s run ~4600 Vdc in the SSB
position.
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Maybe this helps, maybe not.
?
Walter
KR4HV
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Good quality coax. With SHV connectors.
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McMaster-Carr sells high-quality HV wire, in several sizes and volt-ratings:
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HERE:
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--
73,
~Alan
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On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 01:10 PM, Walter wrote:
Hey... just a quick FYI (for future use):
When posting web links, everything AFTER the question mark - and including the question mark (?) - in the destination URL, can be removed (i.e., deleted). That info is [generally] specific to you, your browser, your login, etc.
?
It is NOT needed nor required to access the target webpage.
?
?Your link should have looked like this:
?
?
//
73,
~Alan
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Mcmaster carrs prices are absurd....and are? per foot !!?
I used rolls of belden 10 kv test prod wire.? It comes in red or black.? 18 ga stranded...and silicone rubber...and flexible as spaghetti.? ? Rated for 10 kv and aprx .1988" OD.? I would not use it externally though....... it's prone to nicks on anything. And it will also self seal.?
On the hb amp, for EXTERNAL? B+? ?between racks,? I gave up on connectors and hv wire.? ? Just used RG-393, since I have a 200' roll of it.? ?I used those cinch down fittings, that are used for strain relief for cables.? Also called cable glans.? U can even get em in sweeping right angles.?
Inside the cabinet, the braid of the RG-213 / RG-393 is peeled way back, like 2"- 3"...then chopped off.? ?Perhaps? 1/2" to 3/4" of braid exposed. (and 2-3"? of center conductor and dielectric).? Copper strap is wrapped around the exposed braid. Machine screwed and soldered.? ?Other end of the same copper strap is machine screwed to the chassis.? Center conductor gets a crimped and soldered lug...and goes to B+.? The cable glans provides for strain relief.? A ty-rap can be placed around the 213 / 393 outer jacket, for extra strain relief.?
Same rigmarole at the other end of the coax on next rack cabinet.? Then the B+ is on the center conductor, and the braid is 100% bonded to the chassis at each end of the cable.? ?Then there is no way to kill urself.?
RG-59U? will easily pass a 30 kv hi-pot test.? 213 U will pass a 50 kv hi-pot test...and 393 teflon coax would be through the stratosphere.? ?213-u was used in some labs to handle 50 kvdc on a daily basis.?
With coax, the issue is not the dielectric? HV standoff...... it's how far back u peel the braid at each end.? ?That's called....'surface creep' ....and typ, 1" per 10 kv is recommended.?
On that 6700 vdc supply I built years ago, it used oil caps.....and was also wired externally to a bank of 20x 2000uf lytics.? ?I used Belden? 10 kv test prod wire....and new millens at each end...to get from small rack, to small mating box above it.? ? ? I got my forearm close to the B+ external wire......and all the hair on my forearm stuck straight out !? That freaked me out.?
Inside the HV supply / RF deck, anything will work as long as its HV rated.?
You can get proper HV connectors for 213 / 393 coax.? They look almost identical to a PL-259 / SO-239 on the outside, on the inside, they have the tubular insulation that is 2-3-4" long for 10-15-20 kv rating.? ?They are stupid expensive, but are abt the only real deal HV connector made for coax.?
At the telco I worked at, the electrical sub contractor who looked after the 450 kva / 2000 kva vault xfmr, had a 0-100 kv? hi-pot tester.? ?I don't have access to this stuff since being retired.? ? Never did get to test some 393 teflon coax.?
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Thanks for the heads up, Alan
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From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Alan - W5ARM via groups.io
Sent: 12 December, 2024 9:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire
?
On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 01:10 PM, Walter wrote:
Hey... just a quick FYI (for future use):
When posting web links, everything AFTER the question mark (?) in the destination URL, can be removed. That info is (generally) specific to you, your browser, your login, etc.
It is NOT needed nor required to access the target webpage.
?Your link should have looked like this:
|
Thanks for sending twice.
?
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From: [email protected]
<[email protected]> On Behalf Of Alan - W5ARM via groups.io
Sent: 12 December, 2024 9:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] HV Wire
?
On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 01:10 PM, Walter wrote:
Hey... just a quick FYI (for future use):
When posting web links, everything AFTER the question mark (?) in the destination URL, can be removed. That info is (generally) specific to you, your browser, your login, etc.
It is NOT needed nor required to access the target webpage.
?Your link should have looked like this:
|
Bob
HaL Mandel
Alan - W5ARM