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Re: Lists and Hercules and LSoft

 

Hello!
Oh okay good reason. back them they just did not want to explain what
did happen. Did they say how old these tapes were? And what sort of
drive would have been used for them? I think Dave M here must have the
style of tape drive it would have been used on.

Oh and Peter funny thing, right after the message I am replying to, is
the request from the list-bot for me to confirm your message.

Dave they are done. It worked, and the target won't be able to do
anything for a week.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 3:00 AM Peter Coghlan <groups@...> wrote:

Gregg Levine wrote:


Back when Hercules was still growing up and the original list was not
as big as it is now, I made an interesting suggestion; Basically we
could find out if the list server software from LSoft was still
available from VM, we could track down a copy and get to run on
Hercules running VM/370 Release 6.
I approached Lsoft about this some years ago. As far as I recall, the
response back then was fairly positive but there were a number of snags.
Firstly, Listserv for VM was archived on old tapes and no working drive
was available to read them. Secondly, it is not going to run on VM/370 R6
without a lot of work. It's about 30 years since I last saw Listserv on
VM but as far as I recall, it is mostly written in REXX. I suspect it
makes a lot of use of EXECIO which I don't think we have at present.
There are other smaller issues but I think this one is the showstopper at
the moment.


Naturally this was before I found out that two things did happen, one
of them was that LSoft made the bad decision to get out of the list
server on the appropriate IBM mainframe that we would be emulating for
VM/370 Release 6. The second was that of how such a mainframe would
find itself connected to the Internet. And naturally running that
release. It's possible that IBM did create a preliminary stack for
networking via TCP/IP protocols but, sadly a lot of the software we
would need is not available.
The good news is that having TCP/IP connectivity on VM/370 R6 is not a
requirement to run Listserv. On VM, Listserv exchanged mail in the form
of spool files with a mail transfer agent (such as Lsoft Lmail or the
Crosswell Mailer) on the same VM system or with an off-system MTA by
sending the spool files over NJE links to other systems. The latter is
possible now on VM/370 R6 so mail can be transferred to an external system
which has TCP/IP connectivity where it can be gatewayed into the SMTP world.

I have an NJE link set up to my VMS system (running HUJI-NJE) which can get
mail to and from the outside by routing it through the PMDF MTA on VMS.
This is a bit fragile yet and there are issues with preventing spam etc but
it seems to work most of the time.

None of this is is likely to turn into a viable replacement for Yahoo
groups before they go away (although Listserv can host files in general as
well as mailing lists) but it is fun to play with.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Re: Test!

 

test
Re: Lists and Hercules and LSoft

 

Gregg Levine wrote:

Oh okay good reason. back them they just did not want to explain what
did happen. Did they say how old these tapes were? And what sort of
drive would have been used for them? I think Dave M here must have the
style of tape drive it would have been used on.
I finally managed to locate the email exchange in question in my mail archives.
It turned out to be from nine years ago and unfortunately, my memory has been
playing tricks on me :-(

It was copies of old BITEARN NODES files that Lsoft had stashed on old 6250bpi
round tapes, not old copies of Listserv software. Unfortunately, I have no
information about how Lsoft feels about hobbyists running old versions of
Listserv after all. Sorry for raising hopes.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system.
Sad world, they can't find old Listserv copies so far. Does anyone plan to
re-write Listserv server from scratch or so?

Also I hope that someone could find RELAY (both Rexx and Pascal sources) and
XYZZY software for communications. That is similar like IRC chat for
Internet. I had a copy of XYZZY with sources but lost them due to my hard
drive failure. Does anyone still have a copy of XYZZY chat program with
source codes?

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?

Tim
Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)

 

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On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:
I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system.
Sad world, they can't find old Listserv copies so far.   Does anyone plan to
re-write Listserv server from scratch or so?
You're getting ahead of yourself. Don't worry about application servers like LISTSERV (yet). 
Also I hope that someone could find RELAY (both Rexx and Pascal sources) and
XYZZY software for communications.  That is similar like IRC chat for
Internet.   I had a copy of XYZZY with sources but lost them due to my hard
drive failure.
So pull them off your backup. (That's the SRE in me talking, oops.)
Does anyone still have a copy of XYZZY chat program with
source codes?
Ditto for worrying these if they can't be found. 
Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?

THAT question I like.

I would suggest the following priorities:

First, be glad you're not talking MVS.? RSCS drops into VM/370 R6, and VM R6 even has TAG support.? OTOH, MVS NJE would require major hacks in JES2.

Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.? Fix it.?? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).

Third, you need a more modern RSCS and its associated tools:
  • RSCS server that matches the RSCS V1R3 Program Product documentation on BitSavers, supporting:
    • remote commands
    • remote operators
    • store and forward of files
    • forwarding of messages
    • routing to distant systems
  • IDENTIFY
  • NAMEFIND
  • NAMES
  • SENDFILE
  • NOTE
  • BSMTP gateway for mail

You won't have chat without TCP/IP (below), but I think it would be worth the wait.

Fourth, consider TCP/IP and its associated tools:
  1. TCP/IP server which uses the API of the IBM TCP/IP V1R2 as much as possible.?
    The API is critical because it allows public domain software to be backported.
  2. The RXSOCKET library adapted for the VM/370 implementation of TCP/IP and REXX.
  3. RSCS tools (above) adapted for TCP/IP.
  4. TELNET server
  5. mail gateway
  6. mail client
  7. file retrieval clients
  8. IRC client

That's pretty long list right there.?

Don't bother with writing servers that you can connect to off-system:

  • Chat servers
  • Internet-facing Mail servers
  • Mailing list servers
  • File servers (VMARC files on UNIX file servers are good enough for IBM, so they're good enough for us)

-ahd-
Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:
I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system.
Sad world, they can't find old Listserv copies so far. Does anyone plan to
re-write Listserv server from scratch or so?

Also I hope that someone could find RELAY (both Rexx and Pascal sources) and
XYZZY software for communications. That is similar like IRC chat for
Internet. I had a copy of XYZZY with sources but lost them due to my hard
drive failure. Does anyone still have a copy of XYZZY chat program with
source codes?

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
From the original author of the Pascal version of Relay:

Between VT moving away from VM/XA as part of Y2K and the demise of Bitnet, it's been a long time since I've been sure I knew where the RELAY source was. Even if I had a copy, he'd need a legal copy of the Pascal/VS compiler to build it (I used that because Clarkson had a license for it, and the licensing on the runtime allowed me to ship a RELAYV2 MODULE that had the runtime linked in. The C compilers for VM didn't allow that.) I admit being surprised that anybody still has an RSCS network large enough to make running RELAY worthwhile. Also, unless he has a VM system that does IUCV, the Relay code won't work. And if we're talking VM/370 R6 that won't fly. If he's on VM/SP R6 that would be a different story.
Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

Timothy Stark wrote:


I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system.
Sad world, they can't find old Listserv copies so far.
Who said anything about "can't find"? I said that I misremembered asking
about old Listserv code. It turns out I had been asking about something
else entirely therefore I know nothing at all about the status of old
Listserv code.


Does anyone plan to re-write Listserv server from scratch or so?
That seems a bit premature.


Also I hope that someone could find RELAY (both Rexx and Pascal sources) and
XYZZY software for communications. That is similar like IRC chat for
Internet. I had a copy of XYZZY with sources but lost them due to my hard
drive failure. Does anyone still have a copy of XYZZY chat program with
source codes?
I don't have either, never had.


Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?
I have an idea for this but given my record on other stuff, it's going to
take a while before anything usable appears.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

Hi,

there already IS a TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6: it is the NICOF package which can be found in the files section of the original H390-VM files section as well as the equivalent section of the groups.io group. It can furthermore be found at github (

It is based on VMCF (not IUCV, not available in R6), using proxy-VMs for various sevices interfacing external Java programs which provide the "real" communication services, being the real-machine TCP/IP sockets in case of the TCP/IP stack. The TCP/IP stack provided by NICOF is similar to the bsd-socket API. The newest version 0.7.0 provides both SOCK_STREAM and SOCK_DGRAM sockets (version 0.6.0 only STREAM sockets). There is also a FTP server for a CMS virtual machine, so accessing CMS files from the outside with your preferred FTP client program is easy (even with drag and drop, if your ftp client does it).?
All this is more or less well documented in the PDF of the distributions, along with installing in various scenarios, the easiest being the playground installation in a freshly unpacked Sixpack 1.2 system.

Greetings
Hans

(this thread came to my attention as i received a notification that some Hercules group was migrated to groups.io, so i became aware of the whole migration story and i registered to some of the new hercules-related groups... Many thanks to all who take care of the Hercules, VM, MVS etc. knownledge not going lost!)
Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

From the original author of the Pascal version of Relay:
Between VT moving away from VM/XA as part of Y2K and the demise of
Bitnet, it's been a long time since I've been sure I knew where the
RELAY source was. Even if I had a copy, he'd need a legal copy of the
Pascal/VS compiler to build it (I used that because Clarkson had a
license for it, and the licensing on the runtime allowed me to ship a
RELAYV2 MODULE that had the runtime linked in. The C compilers for VM
didn't allow that.) I admit being surprised that anybody still has an
RSCS network large enough to make running RELAY worthwhile. Also,
unless he has a VM system that does IUCV, the Relay code won't work.
And if we're talking VM/370 R6 that won't fly. If he's on VM/SP R6
that would be a different story.
Someone is working on RSCS and IUCV for VM/370 R6. I have good knowledge of pascal language so that I can port that to other modern C language.

There are many IRCD source codes on github and others for Internet.

Does anyone have any copy of Relay V1 (REXX version)? I know that Relay V2 is Pascal version. I used Relay on BITNET while I was student at University.
Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)

 

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?
THAT question I like.
My long term plan is to leverage the TCP/IP and IUCV support I've written for
Hercules to support TCP/IP on MUSIC/SP. This requires adding IUCV support
to VM/370 R6 which I've started but it's going to take a while.


Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.?
Fix it.?? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).
I think EXECIO support is the most urgent requirement.


Third, you need a more modern RSCS and its associated tools:

* RSCS server that matches the RSCS V1R3 Program Product documentation
on BitSavers, supporting:
o remote commands
o remote operators
o store and forward of files
o forwarding of messages
o routing to distant systems
I think I've got pretty much all of the above done execpt for remote operators.
It's not released yet but I've given it to anyone who wants to try it out.

Haven't I told you about this already Drew?


* IDENTIFY
I've written a hack to do this some time ago. I should dig it up and see about
getting it finished.


* NAMEFIND
* NAMES
I wouldn't regard these as a priority. We can think about them when we
get to the point of having so many people to communicate with that we
cannot remember who is who. REXX with EXECIO should go a long way to
implementing them.


* SENDFILE
You forgot to mention RECEIVE. I've done limited hacks for both SENDFILE and
RECEIVE. They need some more work but they are not as cumbersome as
SPOOL PUN / TAG DEV PUN / PUNCH and ORDER / READCARD and they have some
limited NETDATA support too.


* NOTE
* BSMTP gateway for mail
I haven't done anything on these yet.


You won't have chat without TCP/IP (below), but I think it would be
worth the wait.
I wouldn't regard it as a priority. I'm very close to be able to do chat
over NJE. I don't see any compelling reason to have TCP/IP based chat from
VM.


Fourth, consider TCP/IP and its associated tools:

1. TCP/IP server which uses the API of the IBM TCP/IP V1R2 as much as
possible.
The API is critical because it allows public domain software to be
backported.
MUSIC/SP uses the IUCV form of that API to do TCP/IP so this is what I'm
aiming at implementing for VM/CMS long term. Unfortunately, some public
domain software may also use the VMCF API. It would be easier to
implement the clients with the simpler VMCF interface too. However,
using VMCF means having to implement some sort of TCPIP virtual machine
server to traslate from VMCF into something that can get outside of VM
to a TCP/IP network and that is quite beyond me.


2. The RXSOCKET library adapted for the VM/370 implementation of TCP/IP
and REXX.
Not much use until REXX can do basic stuff like EXECIO.


3. RSCS tools (above) adapted for TCP/IP.
I don't know what you mean here.


4. TELNET server
I'm not sure I see the need for a telnet server when Hercules already has
this built in.


5. mail gateway
My suggestion is to move the mail off system using NJE to a system which
can gateway it to the SMTP world. I think this was often a preferable way
to do it anyway because IBM's SMTP server implementaion for VM was not great.


6. mail client
I've got some ideas but not done anything. Can't do everything.


7. file retrieval clients
8. IRC client

That's pretty long list right there.

Don't bother with writing servers that you can connect to off-system:

* Chat servers
* Internet-facing Mail servers
* Mailing list servers
* File servers (VMARC files on UNIX file servers are good enough for
IBM, so they're good enough for us)
I'm close to being able to do a file server now so that's where I'm going
with it.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

FWIW, Bernd Oppolzer over on IBM-MAIN has been promoting his substantial updates to the Stanford Pascal package for a few years now. He even has a version working on MVS3.8j and VM/CMS. If the Pascal version source were available his compiler might well be usable in place of the Pascal/VS compiler. His Pascal home page is here:



Just a thought, should things ever get that far.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Timothy Stark
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2019 8:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

From the original author of the Pascal version of Relay:
Between VT moving away from VM/XA as part of Y2K and the demise of
Bitnet, it's been a long time since I've been sure I knew where the
RELAY source was. Even if I had a copy, he'd need a legal copy of the
Pascal/VS compiler to build it (I used that because Clarkson had a
license for it, and the licensing on the runtime allowed me to ship a
RELAYV2 MODULE that had the runtime linked in. The C compilers for VM
didn't allow that.) I admit being surprised that anybody still has an
RSCS network large enough to make running RELAY worthwhile. Also,
unless he has a VM system that does IUCV, the Relay code won't work.
And if we're talking VM/370 R6 that won't fly. If he's on VM/SP R6
that would be a different story.
Someone is working on RSCS and IUCV for VM/370 R6. I have good knowledge
of pascal language so that I can port that to other modern C language.

There are many IRCD source codes on github and others for Internet.

Does anyone have any copy of Relay V1 (REXX version)? I know that Relay V2 is
Pascal version. I used Relay on BITNET while I was student at University.
Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.

 

FWIW, Bernd Oppolzer over on IBM-MAIN has been promoting his substantial updates to the Stanford Pascal package for a few years now. He even has a version working on MVS3.8j and
VM/CMS. If the Pascal version source were available his compiler might well be usable in place of the Pascal/VS compiler. His Pascal home page is here:



Just a thought, should things ever get that far.

Peter
Yes, Standard Pascal is open source compiler package. It is possible to build RELAYV2 pascal files into execute for VM R6 system.
Also I can port it to OpenVMS version and Linux platforms with JNet or HUJI-NJE software.

Thanks for let me know that.
Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)

 


Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.?
Fix it.???? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).
Firstly often on VM/370 in order when you try and "fix it" you uncover a
whole leaning tower of Pisa of missing bits of code.
I wonder where you read that. The REXX on VM/370 is solid. It may appear
flaky but what is flaky is the loadable "C" run time.
It stole the DOS active flag on the grounds no one uses DOS. The trouble is
VM uses the flag and if something crashes the store clean up routine messes
up and CMS has to be re-ipled.
There is a fix but you need to re-link everything that uses the "C" loadable
run-time and I havn't got round to doing this yet.
It’s the one thing that makes CMS unreliable so its top of my list, well it
was until Yahoo broke things.

If any one needs it fixing quickly all the source and instructions are
available.

Dave
G4UGM
Greetings to everyone who has just arrived and arrived when we announced

 

Hello!
(wearing my assistant list management hat)
Would all of you confirm that your settings work? Would those of you
who want their settings changed please contact me off list.

And Dave M, you get those six machines back. They are busy selecting
others for a stranger case job.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)

 

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On 10/20/19 12:09 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.?
Fix it.???? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).



      

      
Firstly often on VM/370 in order when you try and "fix it" you uncover a
whole leaning tower of Pisa of missing bits of code.

    

    
"I'm shocked, shocked!" -- Casablanca

    
I'm reminded of when, working as a contractor in Kingston, I
      found in the VM/XA SP 2 version of DIRECTXA that a table lookup
      routinely yielded a null pointer error, and it only silently
      worked because under CMS the machine check old PSW is always zero
      (CMS doesn't ever receive machine checks).? Or at least it
      worked until I added a field to the table.? (I did of course fix
      it.)

    

    
Written by humans, modified by humans, used by humans.

    

    
I wonder where you read that. The REXX on VM/370 is solid. It may appear
flaky but what is flaky is the loadable "C" run time.


    

      
help rexx ( more 


      
Usage Notes:

      
1.? The BREXX interpretr is somewhat flakey.? Please report any problems you
??? encounter to the H390-VM group on Yahoo.? Try out REXXTRY EXEC!

    

    
also: 


    

      
help rexx

REXX Overview

      
The VM/370 Sixpack features an integrated version of BREXX.? REXX procedures
have a filetype of EXEC, and must begin with "/* on the first line. 


      
Note that this is an incomplete port of BREXX to VM/370.? In particular the
external variable and subcommand interfaces are not operational.


    

    
The external variable interface (and an EXECIO module exploiting
      it) is rather important.? 

      

      Can BREXX load/execute assemble packages such as RXUSERFN?? it
      requires NUCEXT? support, which of course is another rabbit hole
      (or as you put it, a leaning Tower of Pisa).

    

    
In general ...

      

      While I seem to specialize in noting where things fall short, I'm
      not dismissing the efforts of you, Peter, and the many others to
      have gotten things to where they are in VM/370 Release 6 for
      Hercules.? Not at all.? I'm just trying to give constructive
      reviewer criticism to help improve things.

    

    
-ahd-

    

    

  


				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
			
				
	
		
	

		
			

			
			

			
			
				
				

					

						
							
							

							Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
							
						
					

				

				

			
			

				

					


						
							

								
								
							

						
					

					

						
							


						
						 
						
							
							
						
						
					

				

			

			

			

				
On 10/20/19 5:32 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?
THAT question I like.
My long term plan is to leverage the TCP/IP and IUCV support I've written for
Hercules to support TCP/IP on MUSIC/SP.  This requires adding IUCV support
to VM/370 R6 which I've started but it's going to take a while.
Huh?? Do you have a S/370 copy of MUSIC/SP?? The 6.x demo is S/390 (I thought)

				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
			
				
	
		
	

		
			

			
			

			
			
				
				

					

						
							
							

							Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
							
						
					

				

				

			
			

				

					


						
							

								
								
							

						
					

					

						
							


						
						 
						
							
							
						
						
					

				

			

			

			

				

  
  




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On 10/20/19 5:32 AM, Peter Coghlan
      wrote:

    

    

      
Drew Derbyshire wrote:



    

    

      

        
Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.?? 
Fix it.???? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).



      

      
I think EXECIO support is the most urgent requirement.

    

    Agreed.? But for that the external variable support is needed.

    

      

        
Third, you need a more modern RSCS and its associated tools:

 * RSCS server that matches the RSCS V1R3 Program Product documentation
   on BitSavers, supporting:
     o remote commands
     o remote operators
     o store and forward of files
     o forwarding of messages
     o routing to distant systems

      

    

    
also (I had forgotten):

    
    
      
  • configuration via file
    • 
      
  • MSGNOH support
    
      
    • 
      
  • link passwords
    • 
    

    
Go through BitSavers manual for the RSCS PP R3.? No need to me to
      repeat it all here.? (Nor you to have redocument all if you get
      your support matching.)

    

    

      

        

      

      
I think I've got pretty much all of the above done execpt for remote operators.
It's not released yet but I've given it to anyone who wants to try it out.

Haven't I told you about this already Drew?

    

    
I'm aware you're working on it, we got a link up to my test
      system.? Have you got a CTC driver?? (Useful for second level VMs)

    

    

      

        
 * IDENTIFY



      

      
I've written a hack to do this some time ago.  I should dig it up and see about
getting it finished.



      

        
 * NAMEFIND
 * NAMES



      

      
I wouldn't regard these as a priority.  We can think about them when we
get to the point of having so many people to communicate with that we
cannot remember who is who.  REXX with EXECIO should go a long way to
implementing them.

    

    From prior experience, I tell you that the critical number of
    avatars (i.e. real people or even yourself on multiple systems) is
    about 2. Typing out out SENDFILE foo exec MAINT AT VERONICA more
    than once is a pain, and error prone.? 

    

      

        
 * SENDFILE



      

      
You forgot to mention RECEIVE.  I've done limited hacks for both SENDFILE and
RECEIVE.  They need some more work but they are not as cumbersome as
SPOOL PUN / TAG DEV PUN / PUNCH and ORDER / READCARD and they have some
limited NETDATA support too.

    

    I also forgot RDRLIST and PEEK.

    

      

        
 * NOTE
 * BSMTP gateway for mail



      

      
I haven't done anything on these yet.

    

    Get the underlying support, I'll write them.? I was writing
    BSMTP code when UUCP was still a thing.

    

      

        
You won't have chat without TCP/IP (below), but I think it would be 
worth the wait.



      

      
I wouldn't regard it as a priority.  I'm very close to be able to do chat
over NJE.  I don't see any compelling reason to have TCP/IP based chat from
VM.

    

    Because the server is a pain in the butt.? :-)
    

      

        
Fourth, consider TCP/IP and its associated tools:

1. TCP/IP server which uses the API of the IBM TCP/IP V1R2 as much as
   possible.
   The API is critical because it allows public domain software to be
   backported.



      

      
MUSIC/SP uses the IUCV form of that API to do TCP/IP so this is what I'm
aiming at implementing for VM/CMS long term.  Unfortunately, some public
domain software may also use the VMCF API.  It would be easier to
implement the clients with the simpler VMCF interface too.  However,
using VMCF means having to implement some sort of TCPIP virtual machine
server to traslate from VMCF into something that can get outside of VM
to a TCP/IP network and that is quite beyond me.



      

        
2. The RXSOCKET library adapted for the VM/370 implementation of TCP/IP
   and REXX.



      

      
Not much use until REXX can do basic stuff like EXECIO.



      

        
3. RSCS tools (above) adapted for TCP/IP.



      

      
I don't know what you mean here.

    

    I mean NAMES, NOTE, and SENDFILE all playing well with mixed (RSCS |
    TCP/IP) networks.

    

      

        
4. TELNET server


      

      
I'm not sure I see the need for a telnet server when Hercules already has
this built in.

    

    
Well, why do any of it? 

    

    
Actually, this needs logical device support, so it is probably
      not be worthwhile.
    

    

      

        
5. mail gateway


      

      
My suggestion is to move the mail off system using NJE to a system which
can gateway it to the SMTP world.  I think this was often a preferable way
to do it anyway because IBM's SMTP server implementation for VM was not great.

    

    

      When I say mail gateway I mean a basic DVM which passes mail
      between the VM system and a trusted external (modern) host.? IBM's
      SMTP server implementation for VM was great ... for 1987.? That
      was a long time ago.? Basically, it's support for the mail client.
      

    

    
The RSCS BSMTP gateway may be sufficient.

    

      

        
6. mail client


      

      
I've got some ideas but not done anything.  Can't do everything.

    

    Given the base TCP/IP? and REXX, I can kick in on that.? I once
    wrote an mail client with a line mode editor in REXX for Clarkson. 

  


				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
			
				
	
		
	

		
			

			
			

			
			
				
				

					

						
							
							

							Re: Greetings to everyone who has just arrived and arrived when we announced
							
						
					

				

				

			
			

				

					


						
							
								
								
									Richard Harper
								
							
						
					

					

						
							


						
						 
						
							
							
						
						
					

				

			

			

			

				





开云体育
Mine seem to be working.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


				
					
					

					


-------- Original message --------
From: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@...> 
Date: 20/10/2019  23:25  (GMT+00:00) 
Subject: [h390-vm] Greetings to everyone who has just arrived and arrived when we announced 

Hello!
(wearing my assistant list management hat)
Would all of you confirm that your settings work? Would those of you
who want their settings changed please contact me off list.

And Dave M, you get those six machines back. They are busy selecting
others for a stranger case job.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."




					


				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
			
				
	
		
	

		
			

			
			

			
			
				
				

					

						
							
							

							Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
							
						
					

				

				

			
			

				

					


						
							

								
								
							

						
					

					

						
							


						
						 
						
							
							
						
						
					

				

			

			

			

				
Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/20/19 5:32 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:
Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?
THAT question I like.
My long term plan is to leverage the TCP/IP and IUCV support I've written for
Hercules to support TCP/IP on MUSIC/SP.  This requires adding IUCV support
to VM/370 R6 which I've started but it's going to take a while.
Huh?? Do you have a S/370 copy of MUSIC/SP?? The 6.x demo is S/390 (I 
thought)
MUSIC doesn't have to be running in order to make use of the support I've
developed for MUSIC TCP/IP.  My idea is that that VM/370 could be made
capable of using the same IUCV and TCP/IP support built into Hercules
while running in S/370 mode that MUSIC uses while running in S/390 mode.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
			
				
	
		
	

		
			

			
			

			
			
				
				

					

						
							
							

							Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
							
						
					

				

				

			
			

				

					


						
							

								
								
							

						
					

					

						
							


						
						 
						
							
							
						
						
					

				

			

			

			

				





开云体育
Drew,
?
Sorry for the top post. I think the HELP needs revising! I have found that the BREXX is pretty reliable and executes most standard REXX (as opposed to VM flavoured) EXECs just fine.
In fact when I was doing some testing several EXECs worked when I wasn’t expecting them too.
?
As you say EXECIO and NUCXLOAD are the two bits that stick out like a sore thumb. 
?
Sadly just when I think its time to do some more work on VM something else breaks that needs doing right now, so whilst its on my ToDo list it slips further down most days..
?
Dave
P.S. I remember a nasty when I first started work. Some COBOL that I needed to change but couldn’t figure out how it worked. There was a nasty bit of code that I could see should fail but didn’t.
Of course the bug was on the “IF” above that caused it to be skipped. It was doing a character compare and was missing the dreadful “ALL” word so it always failed and the gash code was never called…. 
?
?
?

				
					
					

					


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Drew Derbyshire
Sent: 21 October 2019 01:20
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
?
On 10/20/19 12:09 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
?
Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.?
Fix it.???? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).
?
?
Firstly often on VM/370 in order when you try and "fix it" you uncover a
whole leaning tower of Pisa of missing bits of code.
"I'm shocked, shocked!" -- Casablanca
I'm reminded of when, working as a contractor in Kingston, I found in the VM/XA SP 2 version of DIRECTXA that a table lookup routinely yielded a null pointer error, and it only silently worked because under CMS the machine check old PSW is always zero (CMS doesn't ever receive machine checks).? Or at least it worked until I added a field to the table.? (I did of course fix it.)
Written by humans, modified by humans, used by humans.
I wonder where you read that. The REXX on VM/370 is solid. It may appear
flaky but what is flaky is the loadable "C" run time.
help rexx ( more 
Usage Notes:
1.? The BREXX interpretr is somewhat flakey.? Please report any problems you
??? encounter to the H390-VM group on Yahoo.? Try out REXXTRY EXEC!
also: 
help rexx
?
REXX Overview
The VM/370 Sixpack features an integrated version of BREXX.? REXX procedures
have a filetype of EXEC, and must begin with "/* on the first line. 
Note that this is an incomplete port of BREXX to VM/370.? In particular the
external variable and subcommand interfaces are not operational.
The external variable interface (and an EXECIO module exploiting it) is rather important.? 

Can BREXX load/execute assemble packages such as RXUSERFN?? it requires NUCEXT? support, which of course is another rabbit hole (or as you put it, a leaning Tower of Pisa).
In general ...

While I seem to specialize in noting where things fall short, I'm not dismissing the efforts of you, Peter, and the many others to have gotten things to where they are in VM/370 Release 6 for Hercules.? Not at all.? I'm just trying to give constructive reviewer criticism to help improve things.
-ahd-

					


				
				
				
			

			
			

	

	
			

			

				
					

				
				
			

			

				

					

				

			

			
			
			

			


				
	



		
			
		
	

	
	
	
	


	

		
		
		
		
		
	

	

		
		
		
		
		
	

	
	

		
		
		
		
	



	

		

			
	
		

			
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