Self destruct finals

Peter Burnett All Messages By This Member #115154 I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Ken N2VIP All Messages By This Member #115155 开云体育 The self-destruct finals feature is unique to the original, non-nd, FT-817. Your FT-818 should be fine, but I'd suggest pulling batteries out of the unit if you plan on storing it for an extended period, similar to almost any battery-powered device. Ken, N2VIP toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Aug 11, 2024, at 13:57, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Peter Burnett All Messages By This Member #115156 开云体育 Thanks Ken.? P Burnett toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 11 Aug 2024, at 20:14, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: ?The self-destruct finals feature is unique to the original, non-nd, FT-817. Your FT-818 should be fine, but I'd suggest pulling batteries out of the unit if you plan on storing it for an extended period, similar to almost any battery-powered device. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 11, 2024, at 13:57, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Ron Wright All Messages By This Member #115160 The problem was not the internal battery running down to 0 volts, but rather like running down to around 5V or some low voltage.? The PA in the 817 and 818 are wired directly to the power input or internal battery all the time and are not switched with the ON/OFF switch.? Most rigs are wired this way. What would happen at the low out of spec voltage the PA would start to self oscillate on it's own and kill itself.? I am sure this happen to my FT817 when I had stored it with rechargeable batteries, after 6 months turned the rig on and the PA was dead.? When replacing the PA it was advised to reverse the input and output RF coax connections to help prevent this. But I had understood Yaesu in their new redesign f the PA in the mid to late life of the 817 supposedly corrected the oscillation issue, but I also understand Yaesu never admitted it happening.? There were some who took variable power supplies and did verify the PA would self oscillate on it's own. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@... On Sunday, August 11, 2024 at 03:30:06 PM EDT, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: Thanks Ken.? P Burnett On 11 Aug 2024, at 20:14, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: ? The self-destruct finals feature is unique to the original, non-nd, FT-817. Your FT-818 should be fine, but I'd suggest pulling batteries out of the unit if you plan on storing it for an extended period, similar to almost any battery-powered device. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 11, 2024, at 13:57, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Peter Burnett All Messages By This Member #115161 开云体育 Thanks for your input Ron.? There has been a lot of useful stuff posted on this issue, some of it confusing (to me) and some contradictory.? I wanted to ensure that my 818 was in no immediate danger but should I invest in some replacement output transistors as insurance for the future. This would appear to be a sensible course of action. However, one contributor quite rightly pointed out that there are a lot of inferior Chinese copies flooding the market place. Another contributor suggested a source of supply where it was reasonably certain they would be genuine. Hmm! The second conundrum is it going to be worthwhile to try and get my old 817 back up and running on tx, or just be content to use it as rx only. Is it really going to be a practical proposition anyway? The general consensus is that the 818 board can be “shoehorned” into the elderly 817s, but there aren’t any available and Yaesu can’t advise a delivery date or are not interested ( my interpretation). Another suggestion was to find a company/person willing to produce a short run copy, buy the output transistors and populate the rest of the board as required. I don’t mind admitting this is a non starter for me unless I can find someone in the UK to do the job for me. It is starting to sound like an expensive exercise.? I think the sensible thing at this stage is to sit tight, see if, in fact, the 818 boards become available from Yaesu and someone does succeed in grafting it into a dead 817.? Hope my interpretation reflects the current state of play.? G4BLL P Burnett toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 12 Aug 2024, at 01:13, Ron Wright via groups.io <lt_wright_flg@...> wrote: ? The problem was not the internal battery running down to 0 volts, but rather like running down to around 5V or some low voltage.? The PA in the 817 and 818 are wired directly to the power input or internal battery all the time and are not switched with the ON/OFF switch.? Most rigs are wired this way. What would happen at the low out of spec voltage the PA would start to self oscillate on it's own and kill itself.? I am sure this happen to my FT817 when I had stored it with rechargeable batteries, after 6 months turned the rig on and the PA was dead.? When replacing the PA it was advised to reverse the input and output RF coax connections to help prevent this. But I had understood Yaesu in their new redesign f the PA in the mid to late life of the 817 supposedly corrected the oscillation issue, but I also understand Yaesu never admitted it happening.? There were some who took variable power supplies and did verify the PA would self oscillate on it's own. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@... On Sunday, August 11, 2024 at 03:30:06 PM EDT, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: Thanks Ken.? P Burnett On 11 Aug 2024, at 20:14, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: ? The self-destruct finals feature is unique to the original, non-nd, FT-817. Your FT-818 should be fine, but I'd suggest pulling batteries out of the unit if you plan on storing it for an extended period, similar to almost any battery-powered device. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 11, 2024, at 13:57, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Ken N2VIP All Messages By This Member #115162 开云体育 Peter, Pretty much everything you've said is correct, I think you've got a good handle on the situation, BUT I want to point out that our discussions so far have been about Yaesu America, your distributor may have stock in repair boards and may even still be repairing FT-817s. I'd encourage you to contact Yaesu near you and enquirer- you may get lucky and your FT-817 may get a reprieve and get a new set of finals! Good luck, Ken, N2VIP toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Aug 12, 2024, at 11:57?AM, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ?Thanks for your input Ron.? There has been a lot of useful stuff posted on this issue, some of it confusing (to me) and some contradictory.? I wanted to ensure that my 818 was in no immediate danger but should I invest in some replacement output transistors as insurance for the future. This would appear to be a sensible course of action. However, one contributor quite rightly pointed out that there are a lot of inferior Chinese copies flooding the market place. Another contributor suggested a source of supply where it was reasonably certain they would be genuine. Hmm! The second conundrum is it going to be worthwhile to try and get my old 817 back up and running on tx, or just be content to use it as rx only. Is it really going to be a practical proposition anyway? The general consensus is that the 818 board can be “shoehorned” into the elderly 817s, but there aren’t any available and Yaesu can’t advise a delivery date or are not interested ( my interpretation). Another suggestion was to find a company/person willing to produce a short run copy, buy the output transistors and populate the rest of the board as required. I don’t mind admitting this is a non starter for me unless I can find someone in the UK to do the job for me. It is starting to sound like an expensive exercise.? I think the sensible thing at this stage is to sit tight, see if, in fact, the 818 boards become available from Yaesu and someone does succeed in grafting it into a dead 817.? Hope my interpretation reflects the current state of play.? G4BLL P Burnett On 12 Aug 2024, at 01:13, Ron Wright via groups.io <lt_wright_flg@...> wrote: ? The problem was not the internal battery running down to 0 volts, but rather like running down to around 5V or some low voltage.? The PA in the 817 and 818 are wired directly to the power input or internal battery all the time and are not switched with the ON/OFF switch.? Most rigs are wired this way. What would happen at the low out of spec voltage the PA would start to self oscillate on it's own and kill itself.? I am sure this happen to my FT817 when I had stored it with rechargeable batteries, after 6 months turned the rig on and the PA was dead.? When replacing the PA it was advised to reverse the input and output RF coax connections to help prevent this. But I had understood Yaesu in their new redesign f the PA in the mid to late life of the 817 supposedly corrected the oscillation issue, but I also understand Yaesu never admitted it happening.? There were some who took variable power supplies and did verify the PA would self oscillate on it's own. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@... On Sunday, August 11, 2024 at 03:30:06 PM EDT, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: Thanks Ken.? P Burnett On 11 Aug 2024, at 20:14, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: ? The self-destruct finals feature is unique to the original, non-nd, FT-817. Your FT-818 should be fine, but I'd suggest pulling batteries out of the unit if you plan on storing it for an extended period, similar to almost any battery-powered device. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 11, 2024, at 13:57, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Ron Wright All Messages By This Member #115163 G4BLL, What is the part number for the transistor in the FT817/8's PA.? I'd like to get some. I like dealing with Digi-Key for they do sell what they list, actual manufacture's parts. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@... On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 01:27:39 PM EDT, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: Peter, Pretty much everything you've said is correct, I think you've got a good handle on the situation, BUT I want to point out that our discussions so far have been about Yaesu America, your distributor may have stock in repair boards and may even still be repairing FT-817s. I'd encourage you to contact Yaesu near you and enquirer- you may get lucky and your FT-817 may get a reprieve and get a new set of finals! Good luck, Ken, N2VIP On Aug 12, 2024, at 11:57?AM, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? Thanks for your input Ron.? There has been a lot of useful stuff posted on this issue, some of it confusing (to me) and some contradictory.? I wanted to ensure that my 818 was in no immediate danger but should I invest in some replacement output transistors as insurance for the future. This would appear to be a sensible course of action. However, one contributor quite rightly pointed out that there are a lot of inferior Chinese copies flooding the market place. Another contributor suggested a source of supply where it was reasonably certain they would be genuine. Hmm! The second conundrum is it going to be worthwhile to try and get my old 817 back up and running on tx, or just be content to use it as rx only. Is it really going to be a practical proposition anyway? The general consensus is that the 818 board can be “shoehorned” into the elderly 817s, but there aren’t any available and Yaesu can’t advise a delivery date or are not interested ( my interpretation). Another suggestion was to find a company/person willing to produce a short run copy, buy the output transistors and populate the rest of the board as required. I don’t mind admitting this is a non starter for me unless I can find someone in the UK to do the job for me. It is starting to sound like an expensive exercise.? I think the sensible thing at this stage is to sit tight, see if, in fact, the 818 boards become available from Yaesu and someone does succeed in grafting it into a dead 817.? Hope my interpretation reflects the current state of play.? G4BLL P Burnett On 12 Aug 2024, at 01:13, Ron Wright via groups.io <lt_wright_flg@...> wrote: ? The problem was not the internal battery running down to 0 volts, but rather like running down to around 5V or some low voltage.? The PA in the 817 and 818 are wired directly to the power input or internal battery all the time and are not switched with the ON/OFF switch.? Most rigs are wired this way. What would happen at the low out of spec voltage the PA would start to self oscillate on it's own and kill itself.? I am sure this happen to my FT817 when I had stored it with rechargeable batteries, after 6 months turned the rig on and the PA was dead.? When replacing the PA it was advised to reverse the input and output RF coax connections to help prevent this. But I had understood Yaesu in their new redesign f the PA in the mid to late life of the 817 supposedly corrected the oscillation issue, but I also understand Yaesu never admitted it happening.? There were some who took variable power supplies and did verify the PA would self oscillate on it's own. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@... On Sunday, August 11, 2024 at 03:30:06 PM EDT, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: Thanks Ken.? P Burnett On 11 Aug 2024, at 20:14, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: ? The self-destruct finals feature is unique to the original, non-nd, FT-817. Your FT-818 should be fine, but I'd suggest pulling batteries out of the unit if you plan on storing it for an extended period, similar to almost any battery-powered device. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 11, 2024, at 13:57, Peter Burnett via groups.io <g4bll.peter@...> wrote: ? I have an 817 (ser. No; 1D) no rf output and an 818 ( ser. no; 8J) still healthy.? Do I understand correctly that my 818 will not self destruct if I forget to charge it and the internal battery runs down to zero volts? Peter G4BLL ? -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Geert Jan de Groot All Messages By This Member #115164 On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 09:42 PM, Ron Wright wrote: What is the part number for the transistor in the FT817/8's PA.? I'd like to get some. You may want to reflect on this one. For one, there have been a number of PA module revisions because the semiconductor devices have changed (the old device is out of production). Unfortunately, the different devices need different matching and hence the matching circuit changed between different revisions of the PA PCB. So, you can't just swap between different devices because the circuit needs to change. ? At the very least, if you want to order spare semiconductor devices, you must check the module you have to check the devices your module has. ? And there is a second issue. The devices consist of a ceramic substrate with two edge contacts (gate and drain) and a big contact in the middle, that serves as source, as well as heat sink. The source is connected to the assembly to remove the heat as well as provide a good ground contact. Replacing the devices is a non trivial exercise, not to mention the small 0204 devices in the vicinity that fly away if you use hot air (don't ask how I know). So, replacing the semiconductor itself is non trivial. You probably want to swap the module. And there is another issue. I am pretty sure that, after replacement, you will need to adjust the BIAS settings and adjust the gain of the full TX chain - you need to do this for replacing the devices and certainly when replacing the PA module. All in all, it is not as easy as replacing a 2N2222, it is more involved. ? Geert Jan
Geert Jan de Groot All Messages By This Member #115165 EDIT: I forgot to include the casing of these devices. Here it is.
Peter Burnett All Messages By This Member #115166 开云体育 Thanks for highlighting the full extent of what’s involved here Geert. I watched a video on UT which covered the physical aspects of replacing the finals but didn’t go in to the re-setting necessary. This has only served to convince me that my old 817 receiver will remain just that.? Cheers 73 Peter P Burnett toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 13 Aug 2024, at 11:32, Geert Jan de Groot via groups.io <pe1hzg@...> wrote: ? EDIT: I forgot to include the casing of these devices. Here it is. <Screenshot 2024-08-13 at 12.23.48.png> -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Geert Jan de Groot All Messages By This Member #115167 On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 01:01 PM, Peter Burnett wrote: This has only served to convince me that my old 817 receiver will remain just that. I am pretty sure if you call Yaesu UK they will be able to sell you a FT818 output module that will fit your FT817 and it won't mortgage your house. The techs are pretty nice to work with.
ZL2ALW All Messages By This Member #115176 Hi Peter, and all. I found this as it is in Europe it could fix your problem. Regards Andrew Barnett ZL2ALW
D. Scott MacKenzie All Messages By This Member #115178 开云体育 About $40 USD ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ZL2ALW via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2024 7:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ft817] Self destruct finals ? Hi Peter, and all. I found this as it is in Europe it could fix your problem. Regards Andrew Barnett ZL2ALW
Mike All Messages By This Member #115183 Yaesu UK told me the correct final board for my FT-817ND is CB1333005. It's in stock at ?18.77 + shipping + VAT. ? -- Mike G8GYW
Peter Burnett All Messages By This Member #115186 开云体育 Hi Mike? I will contact them tomorrow. Thanks for that.? 73 Peter P Burnett toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 14 Aug 2024, at 14:44, Mike via groups.io <mail@...> wrote: ? Yaesu UK told me the correct final board for my FT-817ND is CB1333005. It's in stock at ?18.77 + shipping + VAT. ? -- Mike G8GYW -- Peter Burnett G4BLL
Mike All Messages By This Member #115189 They use FedEx so shipping and VAT doubles the price. ? -- Mike G8GYW

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