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Hi all,
? ?I'm considering a solar panel purchase for portable qrp. Something in the neighborhood of 20-30 watts.
? ?Many on the web have sketchy, ambiguous, or contradictory specs. Any guidance would be appreciated. Tnx.?
Joe N1KHB
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Bioenno has been solid with their support for batteries and panels. I have 5-6 batteries and 3 panels 28W-180W.?
Buy quality.?
Doug
W4DBL?
Doug Lynch
President?
Aries International, LLC
?
D: +1-321-415-2191
M:?+1-478-318-2655
?
E: Doug@...?
Port Orange, FL
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On Apr 26, 2024, at 23:30, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1KHB@...> wrote:
?Hi all,
? ?I'm considering a solar panel purchase for portable qrp. Many on the web have sketchy, ambiguous, or contradictory specs. Any guidance would be appreciated. Tnx.?
Joe N1KHB?
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I saw the same thing. Various manufacturers with dubious claims. I think it probably cost more, but I bought a small folding bioenno panel and haven’t regretted it.?
Dan --. Please pardon any mispelings or errors.
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On Apr 26, 2024, at 9:47?PM, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Hi all, ? ?I'm considering a solar panel purchase for portable qrp. Something in the neighborhood of 20-30 watts. ? ?Many on the web have sketchy, ambiguous, or contradictory specs. Any guidance would be appreciated. Tnx.? Joe N1KHB
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Many quote the maximum output at solar noon, midsummer, clear sky and the panel angled at the sun.
Obviously this can be even x10 the actual output even on a good day in the other half of the year unless you live closer to or in the tropics.
Three 100W panels, special charging electronics and a suitable battery system. Car batteries are best value but heavy. Li batteries may take deep cycles well. NiMH less tricky, can be similar volume capacity to Li, but much heavier and expensive other than AA size. Lead Acid gel don't like repeated deep discharge.
Likely for a rig the duty cycle is 1:5 unless in a pile-up/contest.·
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SLAs are actually made for deep cycle use. Depth of discharge affects lifespan to a degree however.? ? ?Car batteries are a different animal designed for short duration starting only.
On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 5:30 AM, Mike EI9FEB <ei9feb@...> wrote: Many quote the maximum output at solar noon, midsummer, clear sky and the panel angled at the sun.
Obviously this can be even x10 the actual output even on a good day in the other half of the year unless you live closer to or in the tropics.
Three 100W panels, special charging electronics and a suitable battery system. Car batteries are best value but heavy. Li batteries may take deep cycles well. NiMH less tricky, can be similar volume capacity to Li, but much heavier and expensive other than AA size. Lead Acid gel don't like repeated deep discharge.
Likely for a rig the duty cycle is 1:5 unless in a pile-up/contest.·
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The OP is asking about portable QRP usage, so car batteries are right out, SLA are an option but heavy, LiFePO4 batteries are likely a better choice.
As for a solar panel, a three-panel array is not practical, there are quality brands out there, Bioenno seems well-regarded here, but I think there's no way to provide specifications for solar panels given the number of variables involved. I would suggest going with a well-regarded brand, over-provisioning the solar panel to the extent its practical to deploy easily in portable use, and realize that you can't run just off the solar panel - you'll need a battery and the solar panel/array you deploy is just to hopefully maintain the charge on the batteries.
Good luck, please share your decision with us when you decide,
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On Apr 27, 2024, at 07:43, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
?SLAs are actually made for deep cycle use. Depth of discharge affects lifespan to a degree however.? ? ?Car batteries are a different animal designed for short duration starting only.
Joe N1KHB? On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 5:30 AM, Mike EI9FEB <ei9feb@...> wrote: Many quote the maximum output at solar noon, midsummer, clear sky and the panel angled at the sun.
Obviously this can be even x10 the actual output even on a good day in the other half of the year unless you live closer to or in the tropics.
Three 100W panels, special charging electronics and a suitable battery system. Car batteries are best value but heavy. Li batteries may take deep cycles well. NiMH less tricky, can be similar volume capacity to Li, but much heavier and expensive other than AA size. Lead Acid gel don't like repeated deep discharge.
Likely for a rig the duty cycle is 1:5 unless in a pile-up/contest.·
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I've always used a 7 ah SLA with good results. The weight is manageable for the short carry distances I frequent. If lithium ion ever becomes competitive enough I may transition at some point. ? ?I actually have a 30 watt panel to use but it's rather large and clumsy, so I'm hoping that newer ones are more efficient for the size. I've had this one for decades, but last time I checked it was still living up to the original specs.? ? ?Thanks to all for suggestions and observations.
Joe N1KHB? ?
On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 9:28 AM, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: The OP is asking about portable QRP usage, so car batteries are right out, SLA are an option but heavy, LiFePO4 batteries are likely a better choice.
As for a solar panel, a three-panel array is not practical, there are quality brands out there, Bioenno seems well-regarded here, but I think there's no way to provide specifications for solar panels given the number of variables involved. I would suggest going with a well-regarded brand, over-provisioning the solar panel to the extent its practical to deploy easily in portable use, and realize that you can't run just off the solar panel - you'll need a battery and the solar panel/array you deploy is just to hopefully maintain the charge on the batteries.
Good luck, please share your decision with us when you decide, Ken, N2VIP On Apr 27, 2024, at 07:43, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
?SLAs are actually made for deep cycle use. Depth of discharge affects lifespan to a degree however.? ? ?Car batteries are a different animal designed for short duration starting only.
Joe N1KHB? On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 5:30 AM, Mike EI9FEB <ei9feb@...> wrote: Many quote the maximum output at solar noon, midsummer, clear sky and the panel angled at the sun.
Obviously this can be even x10 the actual output even on a good day in the other half of the year unless you live closer to or in the tropics.
Three 100W panels, special charging electronics and a suitable battery system. Car batteries are best value but heavy. Li batteries may take deep cycles well. NiMH less tricky, can be similar volume capacity to Li, but much heavier and expensive other than AA size. Lead Acid gel don't like repeated deep discharge.
Likely for a rig the duty cycle is 1:5 unless in a pile-up/contest.·
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On 4/27/2024 2:23 PM, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io wrote: I've always used a 7 ah SLA with good results. The weight is manageable for the short carry distances I frequent. If lithium ion ever becomes competitive enough I may transition at some point.
? ?I actually have a 30 watt panel to use but it's rather large and clumsy, so I'm hoping that newer ones are more efficient for the size. I've had this one for decades, but last time I checked it was still living up to the original specs.
? ?Thanks to all for suggestions and observations.
Joe N1KHB You might consider something like this: I have one and find it very well designed.? It has separately switchable 12V and 120VAC (600W) outputs, and a capacity of 250WH. It includes an input for a 12V solar panel for charging (standard XT60 connector) and also has a built in 120VAC charger that is VERY fast.? It can charge it from dead to full in about an hour or less. The front panel displays state of charge and also predicted run time at the current discharge rate. Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com
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Are you looking for specifically folding/portable? There are plenty of small/affordable panels available. Try to avoid amorphic unless it's a newer tech. You tend to get much better power per inch out of bi-crystalline or mono-crystalline, even better with CIGS.? I've had good luck watching the local Craigslist or Faecesbook?marketplace. But I also pick them up occasionally on amazon when I can catch a sale.? Eco-Worthy, Renogy, Allto, Future Solar, NewPowa are a few I've gotten. I used to buy Instapark but I don't think they make them anymore. More important than the panels is a good regulator. There's a local mom-and-pop here in Michigan makes great little MPPT regulators (DIY Solar For U), But renogy has a number of PWM and MPPT options available that are reasonably affordable and more reliable than China-no-name. Surprisingly, I've heard really good things about a new little one I just got for basic PWM setup. You see them all over amazon, ebay and aliexpress from multiple sellers. Seems the newest iteration is the 6v/12v 10a version. Here's just one example:?? (you won't get as good of charge rate as you would with a more expensive MPPT controller, but they seem to work pretty good)? Although there is one drawback that I find to be a plus. They have load monitoring and shut down at about 10.5v on the load output. (you can always connect straight to the power source if you want to risk draining a battery lower - these were made for outdoor water pumps for things like fountains, simple plant watering, hydroponic stuff, etc)? They turn back on again when the battery is back to about 12.5v There are some simple, 'in-line' MPPTs that are getting good ratings. I picked up one of these for my RV? but I'm curious about this one also:?? Those don't contain any 'load' output so they won't do any load monitoring for you.
For stuff more elaborate, the low-end entry points for good regulators are Renogy and Victron if you want any kind of power monitoring. These are nice because they have addons which make monitoring wireless (bluetooth) capable but they are still affordable. (although they ream you on the bluetooth addon) . They both seem to make PWM and MPPT versions in multiple amperage ratings.
Next is good power packs or batteries. If going lithium, I recommend LiFePO4 as it will be less prone to 'kaboom' of large lithium poly or lithium ion packs and will recharge much longer. The power per cell is lower, but you usually get more power on their 12v equivalent. (lipo/lion are 3.7 and usually chain 3 cells for 11.1v, lifepo4 are 3.2v and usually chain 4 cells for 12.8v).? On lithiums, try to find cells/packs that have a built in power monitoring / charge protection and that have a good rating.? Otherwise, a good AGM or gel cell lead acid can't be beat for reliability. I have no experience with thiis one, but I just ran into it the other day and I'm curious. They're large, single-cell LiFePO4 but apparently designed so they can be chained in series or parallel (e.g. get 4 of them for a 12v source and connect?+->- on the bridges between - even on LiFePo4 I'd recommend some kind of air spacer between or even a heatsink to keep heat even when charging). Like I say, I have no experience with them but the store seems to have good reviews:? SW
Hi all,
? ?I'm considering a solar panel purchase for portable qrp. Many on the web have sketchy, ambiguous, or contradictory specs. Any guidance would be appreciated. Tnx.?
Joe N1KHB?
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After buying garbage I now use various PowerFilm panels with a Buddipole power controller John ve3ips Sent with a Palm Pilot @300 baud from a copper a landline
I blog at
Radio: it's not just a hobby, it's a life$$$tyle
Throw a wire in a tree and go make QSO
-- John VE3IPS Radio is a Lifestyle not a Hobby Oprah added the ARRL Handbook to her list
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Hi John,
You are after rather more power than I am, but because I am walking, the amount of time for the panels to be out of the pack and charging the radio is very limited. (1hr every second day)
It is actually challenging to get panels light enough to be better than carrying more batteries!
The '817 has 3x18650 cells.(149g) The panel is 184g, and actually delivers 12V 1A in direct sun. They are compatible with directly charging 3x LiIon cells with no charge electronics (The BMS will protect against overcharge and the zener protects the radio from overvoltage)
I have used powerfilm panels for work projects a decade ago, but the output is so low they don't charge the battery a useful amount in the time available. (They also seemed to be optimistically specd.)
However I thought I would look at powerfilm again. Using a needs 14 panels, and 5x the area of what I have above. i.e it will be a 1.25m by 270mm area of mylar film.
Weight will be : 5.9*14=82g for the power film. This is a bunch of them so at a minimum we should stick them to some thin nylon. So PF panels with adhesive are 8g, non sil nylon is 50g/m, wires plugs etc 30g
8*14 + 50*0.4 +30g = 129g
So a bit lighter than what I have. From my point of view they are infeasibly large for the power I need given it is often in windy conditions. Again my requirement is driven by only getting one hour of direct sun every two days. If you got to deploy your panels for 4 hours every day it would be a totally different story.
The digikey price of USD547 is a bit prohibitive too...
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Doug Lynch NNJ4EM
Mike EI9FEB
John