|
From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
Bird Cupps
|
Bird,?
Not sure of details of your particular system, but if you have basic straight cut slip fit ends on this pipe, I have used simple cutting of a slot with portaband, hacksaw,etc, just to get one end to slightly open or slightly close to allow mating. Once started, a block of wood to protect blows from a hammer on the other end often drives joint home and self aligns. Lots of light taps around circumference for larger pipes.?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 8:11 AM Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
Bird Cupps
|
Hi Bird,
I bought 5¡± spiral from Rockler. I forget the gauge but it is stout and was lower gauge than others in similar price range.
I don¡¯t know what the standard industry practice is but hose clamps (and I bought really good ones) do not work. It is not possible to compress the pipe of this gauge with hose clamps. I ended up using HVAC connectors from box store to connect pipe to pipe by using sheet metal screws. You can find these with crimped ends on both sides.
My Elbows and Y fittings from Rockler had reduced ends. While spiral pipe received these and the hose clamps appear to do the job it really is not a durable connection without screws. At least that was my experience.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
?From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
Bird Cupps
|
I think cutting a slot is the way to go. I bought these adapter fittings which are supposed to join two fittings, and they are the real buggers.
Where I have a slot cut, I¡¯ve been using the clamp to suck the fitting together a tiny bit to get it started into the adapter; then I just remove the clamp. Everything will get screwed together for the long haul, but at this point I¡¯m still just cutting and fitting to get everything laid out.
Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 8:38 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Bird,
I bought 5¡± spiral from Rockler. I forget the gauge but it is stout and was lower gauge than others in similar price range.
I don¡¯t know what the standard industry practice is but hose clamps (and I bought really good ones) do not work. It is not possible to compress the pipe of this gauge with hose clamps. I ended up using HVAC connectors from box store to connect pipe to pipe by using sheet metal screws. You can find these with crimped ends on both sides.
My Elbows and Y fittings from Rockler had reduced ends. While spiral pipe received these and the hose clamps appear to do the job it really is not a durable connection without screws. At least that was my experience.
Imran
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
?From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
Bird Cupps
|
What was your source?
The straight sections are often joined by a reduced diameter pipe with a bead of larger diameter to center the pipe.? There is no crimping involved.? Insert and pop rivet or screw together...
I have run some spiral but much prefer the snap lock variety like norfab, onieda etc.
Marlowe McGraw
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 8:45 AM Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: I think cutting a slot is the way to go. I bought these adapter fittings which are supposed to join two fittings, and they are the real buggers.
?Where I have a slot cut, I¡¯ve been using the clamp to suck the fitting together a tiny bit to get it started into the adapter; then I just remove the clamp. Everything will get screwed together for the long haul, but at this point I¡¯m still just cutting and fitting to get everything laid out.
?Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
> On Jul 14, 2021, at 8:38 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Bird,
>
> I bought 5¡± spiral from Rockler. I forget the gauge but it is stout and was lower gauge than others in similar price range.
>
> I don¡¯t know what the standard industry practice is but hose clamps (and I bought really good ones) do not work. It is not possible to compress the pipe of this gauge with hose clamps. I ended up using HVAC connectors from box store to connect pipe to pipe by using sheet metal screws. You can find these with crimped ends on both sides.
>
> My Elbows and Y fittings from Rockler had reduced ends. While spiral pipe received these and the hose clamps appear to do the job it really is not a durable connection without screws. At least that was my experience.
>
> Imran
>
> On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
>
> ?From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
>
> I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
>
> I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
>
> I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
>
> Bird Cupps
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
Go to an hvac supply house they have all the fittings, the spiral pipe works with fittings specific to it - m/f couplers, long rad 90¡¯s, 45¡¯s etc¡ no crimping is required, its all screwed together with sheet metal screws and I then silicone the joint. I have used an angle grinder and jigsaw to cut the pipe¡
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:56 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? What was your source?
The straight sections are often joined by a reduced diameter pipe with a bead of larger diameter to center the pipe.? There is no crimping involved.? Insert and pop rivet or screw together...
I have run some spiral but much prefer the snap lock variety like norfab, onieda etc.
Marlowe McGraw On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 8:45 AM Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: I think cutting a slot is the way to go. I bought these adapter fittings which are supposed to join two fittings, and they are the real buggers.
?Where I have a slot cut, I¡¯ve been using the clamp to suck the fitting together a tiny bit to get it started into the adapter; then I just remove the clamp. Everything will get screwed together for the long haul, but at this point I¡¯m still just cutting and fitting to get everything laid out.
?Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
> On Jul 14, 2021, at 8:38 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Bird,
>
> I bought 5¡± spiral from Rockler. I forget the gauge but it is stout and was lower gauge than others in similar price range.
>
> I don¡¯t know what the standard industry practice is but hose clamps (and I bought really good ones) do not work. It is not possible to compress the pipe of this gauge with hose clamps. I ended up using HVAC connectors from box store to connect pipe to pipe by using sheet metal screws. You can find these with crimped ends on both sides.
>
> My Elbows and Y fittings from Rockler had reduced ends. While spiral pipe received these and the hose clamps appear to do the job it really is not a durable connection without screws. At least that was my experience.
>
> Imran
>
> On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
>
> ?From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
>
> I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
>
> I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
>
> I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
>
> Bird Cupps
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
I too found the "tolerance" for pipe and fittings a challenge. I ended up getting a tool that crimps the part that slips inside the pipe. The disappointing part of that is you end up with a big restriction fighting airflow wherever to crimp.
It was so frustrating that for the new shop I bit the bullet and used Nordfab. $$$ but so much easier to use.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Bird Cupps Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 9:12 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [FOG] working with spiral pipe From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here: I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much. I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?! I hope your day is going together better than this pipe. Bird Cupps
|
I¡¯ve been using spiral pipe since I started woodworking. Your fittings should have a large end and a small end, so you need to be cognizant of which end goes inside vs. outside. On the spiral pipe itself, you have to grind down the ¡°bead¡± on the outside when it¡¯s going into another fitting, just for the distance it slips inside. They do make joiners, that slip inside on both ends of straight pipe to add two pieces of pipe together.
I slip/tap/pound the pieces together, drill holes through the pipe and fitting and then pop rivet at 120? increments around the pipe. Then using aluminum foil tape, I wrap the joint and take care to seal the tape down well. Use aluminum pop rivets and they are real easy to drill out to change configurations later down the road when you need to¡ it¡¯s harder to get the aluminum foil tape off than the rivets.
I¡¯ve moved all my pipe from shop to shop and re-use it in the next configuration. While spiral isn¡¯t cheap, it¡¯s no where near the cost of Nordfab style pipe and fittings.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 6:44 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
I think cutting a slot is the way to go. I bought these adapter fittings which are supposed to join two fittings, and they are the real buggers.
Where I have a slot cut, I¡¯ve been using the clamp to suck the fitting together a tiny bit to get it started into the adapter; then I just remove the clamp. Everything will get screwed together for the long haul, but at this point I¡¯m still just cutting and fitting to get everything laid out.
Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
On Jul 14, 2021, at 8:38 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Bird,
I bought 5¡± spiral from Rockler. I forget the gauge but it is stout and was lower gauge than others in similar price range.
I don¡¯t know what the standard industry practice is but hose clamps (and I bought really good ones) do not work. It is not possible to compress the pipe of this gauge with hose clamps. I ended up using HVAC connectors from box store to connect pipe to pipe by using sheet metal screws. You can find these with crimped ends on both sides.
My Elbows and Y fittings from Rockler had reduced ends. While spiral pipe received these and the hose clamps appear to do the job it really is not a durable connection without screws. At least that was my experience.
Imran
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
?From the division of mostly silent reader and listener here:
I have a question which I hope will prompt some ideas. I am installing some dust collection using spiral pipe and fittings. Not much experience with the stuff (as in none) and I¡¯m finding a lot of variety in the sizes of supposedly common-sized materials. I am using hose clamps and lubrications to try and get these #($*-ers together. Some pieces go together like, well, hand in glove. Others, not so much.
I do understand that there are male/female parts. And I bought the materials from a single supplier. Is frustration just part of the beauty of this material? Are there installation tips that might help me? Should I have shelled out for the clamp together pipe?!
I hope your day is going together better than this pipe.
Bird Cupps
|
Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
|
?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
|
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me.
?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
|
Kevin,
I was always curious about smaller number gauge being bigger wire in diameter until I read sometime ago it was due to drawing attempts. 1 gauge was the thickest wire and then it would be re-drawn a 2nd time to be made thinner, hence 2nd gauge. So on and so forth. It was a history book of sort and I forget the reference.
Imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Kevin Wells <kjwells54@...> wrote: ? Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Speaking of metal sheet gauges - I just learned a lot on this webpage:?
Reminds me of my upholstery work where the button sizes are in numbers that seem like inches, but not quite. Turns out upholstery work goes back to Euro hatmakers, textile mfg, and clockmakers who stuck to the "French inch", the "ligne" back in the early days of standardization.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:48 PM Kevin Wells < kjwells54@...> wrote: Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
that was interesting. Dave Davies
Speaking of metal sheet gauges - I just learned a lot on this webpage:?
Reminds me of my upholstery work where the button sizes are in numbers that seem like inches, but not quite. Turns out upholstery work goes back to Euro hatmakers, textile mfg, and clockmakers who stuck to the "French inch", the "ligne" back in the early days of standardization.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:48 PM Kevin Wells < kjwells54@...> wrote: Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
I think sheetmetal gauge is based on this, the weight per square foot per inch of thickness. This is why different materials can be different gauge for the same thickness:
As the gauge number increases, the material thickness decreases. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers¡¯ Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. For galvanized material, the decimal by gauge and weight per pound is different than steel due to the coating weight. Example 1: A 10 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.1345 inches will weigh 41.82 * 0.1345 = 5.625 pounds per square foot. Example 2: A 10 gauge galvanized sheet which has a thickness of .1382 inches will weigh 41.37 * .1382 = 5.718 pounds per square foot.
I know in shotguns it¡¯s based on the diameter of how many balls you get out of a pound of lead. Wire gauge is a whole different situation entirely. Probably why in manufacturing they have gotten away from most gauge call outs and now specify thickness of the material.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: .? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Thanks Brian and Imran. And let¡¯s not get into pipe sizing¡.maybe the metric system has some advantages (or many advantages).
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:03 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: I think sheetmetal gauge is based on this, the weight per square foot per inch of thickness. This is why different materials can be different gauge for the same thickness:
As the gauge number increases, the material thickness decreases. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers¡¯ Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. For galvanized material, the decimal by gauge and weight per pound is different than steel due to the coating weight. Example 1: A 10 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.1345 inches will weigh 41.82 * 0.1345 = 5.625 pounds per square foot. Example 2: A 10 gauge galvanized sheet which has a thickness of .1382 inches will weigh 41.37 * .1382 = 5.718 pounds per square foot.
I know in shotguns it¡¯s based on the diameter of how many balls you get out of a pound of lead. Wire gauge is a whole different situation entirely. Probably why in manufacturing they have gotten away from most gauge call outs and now specify thickness of the material.
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: .? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Definitely don't get into pipe sizing ! Dave Davies
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Kevin Wells < kjwells54@...> wrote: Thanks Brian and Imran. And let¡¯s not get into pipe sizing¡.maybe the metric system has some advantages (or many advantages). On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:03 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: I think sheetmetal gauge is based on this, the weight per square foot per inch of thickness. This is why different materials can be different gauge for the same thickness:
As the gauge number increases, the material thickness decreases. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers¡¯ Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. For galvanized material, the decimal by gauge and weight per pound is different than steel due to the coating weight. Example 1: A 10 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.1345 inches will weigh 41.82 * 0.1345 = 5.625 pounds per square foot. Example 2: A 10 gauge galvanized sheet which has a thickness of .1382 inches will weigh 41.37 * .1382 = 5.718 pounds per square foot.
I know in shotguns it¡¯s based on the diameter of how many balls you get out of a pound of lead. Wire gauge is a whole different situation entirely. Probably why in manufacturing they have gotten away from most gauge call outs and now specify thickness of the material.
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: .? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Thanks, I¡¯ve always wondered the same thing. This thread was prompting me to search google and you just saved me a rat hole
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 2:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] working with spiral pipe
?
I was always curious about smaller number gauge being bigger wire in diameter until I read sometime ago it was due to drawing attempts. 1 gauge was the thickest wire and then it would be re-drawn a 2nd time to be made thinner, hence 2nd
gauge. So on and so forth. It was a history book of sort and I forget the reference.
?
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values
change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed
to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me.
?
?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just
screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (Blastgateco.com), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with actual duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff
|
I have actually regretted using the tape instead of a sealant¡?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Roltgen <9namkcits@...> wrote:
?Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (Blastgateco.com), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with actual duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff
|
imran
Joe Jensen
Kevin Wells