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I'm tired of fumbling underneath the slider to find the saw start/stop buttons on my BF6 so am about to add switches to the end of the slider, with a 4-way curly cable back to the original switches. I'd be grateful if someone with this "remote switching" as standard could confirm that the cable simply routes out (away from the body of the machine) and hangs loose, so I can avoid re-inventing that particular wheel.?
Dave (in the UK)
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Hi Dave,
This may not be what you are looking for but may give you am idea. I prefer wireless over a cord. I don't think I put it in files, so I will do that. There are at least 2 more solutions in files. Both corded; one pendant and the other where the switch box is attached to the edge of the slider.
Imran
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I ran my cable out one of the plastic caps on the end of the chassis below the slider and hang the switch box off the F-channel on the side of the slider. I would suggest a lighter coil cord than what I used, it’s way heavier than needed although it has lasted 20+ years.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 5, 2023, at 2:01 PM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
I'm tired of fumbling underneath the slider to find the saw start/stop buttons on my BF6 so am about to add switches to the end of the slider, with a 4-way curly cable back to the original switches. I'd be grateful if someone with this "remote switching" as standard could confirm that the cable simply routes out (away from the body of the machine) and hangs loose, so I can avoid re-inventing that particular wheel.?
Dave (in the UK)
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Brian: I opted for a cable with 0.5mm2 wire. I realise that the cable only has to deal with the contactor coil current but I wanted something a little more robust than the minimum. It's a trivial thing, and seems obvious with hindsight, but I was going to put the switchbox on the end of the handhold at the end of the slider rather than on the side - clearly, the side of the slider would be better.
Imran: That's a great write-up. I use wireless to control extractors but (as a retired electronics engineer, amongst other things) I would not be comfortable using a simple wireless link for such a safety-critical task as controlling the saw, especially when it is so easy to use a curly cable which defaults to being safe if a wire breaks.?
Thanks to both.
Dave (in the UK)
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On 6-3-2023 11:31, aero_qfi wrote:
Brian: I opted for a cable with 0.5mm2 wire.
I would opt for a phone cable with rj10/11 connectors, cheap, easy to replace and relatively robust AFAICT: and (datasheet) Jonathan
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That’s 20 gauge, think I did 18 and it was way heavier than necessary. As Jonathan states, a phone could cord would probably work just as well. Pictures of mine attached below.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... www.lambtoolworks.com   
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On Mar 6, 2023, at 5:11 AM, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote:
On 6-3-2023 11:31, aero_qfi wrote:
Brian: I opted for a cable with 0.5mm2 wire.
I would opt for a phone cable with rj10/11 connectors, cheap, easy to replace and relatively robust AFAICT: https://nl.farnell.com/pro-signal/chp/patch-lead-coiled-4way-black/dp/107208 and https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/15037.pdf (datasheet) Jonathan
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On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 12:11 PM, Jonathan Martens wrote:
I would opt for a phone cable with rj10/11 connectors, cheap, easy to replace and relatively robust AFAICT
That's not a terribly good idea for 240V. Maybe some of the machines have LV switchgear but AFAICS the BF6 does not. Dave (in the UK)
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On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 04:26 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
a phone could cord would probably work just as well
It would be OK (OTT, even) from the current standpoint but I would be concerned about the insulation resistance for use with 240V ... better to use a cable that has an appropriate spec and avoid unpleasant surprises resulting from saving a few pounds/dollars/whatevers. Dave (in the UK)
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Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:56 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
?On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 04:26 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
a phone could cord would probably work just as well
It would be OK (OTT, even) from the current standpoint but I would be concerned about the insulation resistance for use with 240V ... better to use a cable that has an appropriate spec and avoid unpleasant surprises resulting from saving a few pounds/dollars/whatevers. Dave (in the UK)
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The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage, 24V is what mine is.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 3:51 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 12:11 PM, Jonathan Martens wrote:
I would opt for a phone cable with rj10/11 connectors, cheap, easy to replace and relatively robust AFAICT
That's not a terribly good idea for 240V. Maybe some of the machines have LV switchgear but AFAICS the BF6 does not. Dave (in the UK)
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On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Edited to add ... that I found the spec of the contactor shown on the parts listing: the coil voltage is 220V so I guess that's pretty conclusive Dave (in the UK)
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I don’t think any machinery has had high voltage to the control circuits in the last 50 years, so I highly doubt you have 220V to the buttons.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:37 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Dave (in the UK)
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Voltmeter on the wires would be the true answer….
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:37 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Edited to add ... that I found the spec of the contactor shown on the parts listing: the coil voltage is 220V so I guess that's pretty conclusive Dave (in the UK)
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I agree with Brian. ?Having those control circuits at 220V would be a violation of European safety standards. ?Put a volt meter on it.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 8:45 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
I don’t think any machinery has had high voltage to the control circuits in the last 50 years, so I highly doubt you have 220V to the buttons.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:37 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Dave (in the UK)
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Sorry, I added my edit (about contactor coil specs) to the earlier post before I saw your response.
I have just been to the workshop with the aim of making a measurement to put this discussion to bed. When I removed the cover to the electrical box I found the attached wiring diagram and, although it's very slightly different to the one in the manual, you can see that there is no transformer for the controls. Physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo and that the contactors are the same type listed on the parts list - with 220V coils.
I didn't mean to be argumentative about this but just wanted to prevent someone from assuming that a phone cable would be safe, when it may not be. In this case it would have been rather unsafe.
BTW, I'd intended to fix the auxiliary controls on the side of the slider but I like the idea of hooking them on, as shown in your photo.
Dave (in the UK)
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It shows .5 amp fuses in the control circuits…. But before I’d trust a piece of paper, I’d put the meter on the wires and definitely know for sure what the voltage is.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 10:46 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
Sorry, I added my edit (about contactor coil specs) to the earlier post before I saw your response.
I have just been to the workshop with the aim of making a measurement to put this discussion to bed. When I removed the cover to the electrical box I found the attached wiring diagram and, although it's very slightly different to the one in the manual, you can see that there is no transformer for the controls. Physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo and that the contactors are the same type listed on the parts list - with 220V coils.
I didn't mean to be argumentative about this but just wanted to prevent someone from assuming that a phone cable would be safe, when it may not be. In this case it would have been rather unsafe.
BTW, I'd intended to fix the auxiliary controls on the side of the slider but I like the idea of hooking them on, as shown in your photo.
Dave (in the UK)
<Specific wiring diagram.pdf>
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You might find this file from the archives useful. ?This was the original Remote Pendant design we all implemented back in 2001. ?It lists the coiled wiring.?
When I upgraded to a new Felder saw with built-in remote controls, I relocated my remote pendant to my stacker so I can hoist myself up to pick cherries. ?That coiled cable has been bomb-proof. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 10:00 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
It shows .5 amp fuses in the control circuits…. But before I’d trust a piece of paper, I’d put the meter on the wires and definitely know for sure what the voltage is.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Mar 8, 2023, at 10:46 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
Sorry, I added my edit (about contactor coil specs) to the earlier post before I saw your response.
I have just been to the workshop with the aim of making a measurement to put this discussion to bed. When I removed the cover to the electrical box I found the attached wiring diagram and, although it's very slightly different to the one in the manual, you can see that there is no transformer for the controls. Physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo and that the contactors are the same type listed on the parts list - with 220V coils.
I didn't mean to be argumentative about this but just wanted to prevent someone from assuming that a phone cable would be safe, when it may not be. In this case it would have been rather unsafe.
BTW, I'd intended to fix the auxiliary controls on the side of the slider but I like the idea of hooking them on, as shown in your photo.
Dave (in the UK)
<Specific wiring diagram.pdf>
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Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
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FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine.
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 1:14 PM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote: ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
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David Best,
[I’ll preface this with the statement that I’m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I’m not a consumer machine guy, but I’ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I’ve worked on.?
Thanks, James
FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
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imran
Jonathan Martens
David P. Best