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Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw?
Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Hi Jay, Lucky man to be in that position. I don't have any experience with Tersa, other than my moulder guy loves them on his Weinig. I think one big advantage is how quickly you can change knives, and you can have different steels for different materials. That said, I've been using both Byrd heads and the Oliver ITCH head for years. While the Tersa may give you a better finish right off the knives when new, the amount of service I get out of both of my carbide heads is incredible. I just ground the head in the Oliver for the first time in over 2 years. It was barely tearing out gnarly figured wood then. Outstanding given there are 6 furniture makers using it in my shop.
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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I upgraded a Powermatic 8” jointer to a Terminus (Teresa copy) and ran that for a couple of years. I found the Terminus knives to dull quickly but they were easy to change. ?I use hardwood exclusively and figured often and I still had the tear out issues. I then switched to a Byrd cutter head and I love the spiral carbide inserts. I now run a 12” SCMI jointer upgraded to a Byrd and I have a Byrd in my planer. If upgrading I’d seriously consider the Hermance insert cutter head.?
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw? Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Scallops with tersa are right angle Scallops with helical inserts are length wise or 90 to tersa ? Both have their advantages ?just depends on what u do.? In A hobby shop like mine traditional hand set 2 knife is more than fine. With proper jigs it’s no big deal. If I had a choice tersa Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 9:39 AM, Joe Jensen <joe@...> wrote:
? I upgraded a Powermatic 8” jointer to a Terminus (Teresa copy) and ran that for a couple of years. I found the Terminus knives to dull quickly but they were easy to change. ?I use hardwood exclusively and figured often and I still had the tear out issues. I then switched to a Byrd cutter head and I love the spiral carbide inserts. I now run a 12” SCMI jointer upgraded to a Byrd and I have a Byrd in my planer. If upgrading I’d seriously consider the Hermance insert cutter head.? On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw? Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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I have both the machines you’re looking at with Tersa. The president of Martin USA at the time recommended the Tersa, I have no regrets .
Tom Morris?
Wichita, KS
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I have Tersa on my Dual 51 and love it. ?Except when a contractor friend came over with 250 feet of 16” wide rough live oak to do S2S. ?We emptied the RL160 every single board. ?If you’re planning a lot of production with the planer, the chip volume with Tersa is easily 3-4 times that of my Dewalt lunchbox planer with spiral cutter.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:44 PM, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
I have both the machines you’re looking at with Tersa. The president of Martin USA at the time recommended the Tersa, I have no regrets .
Tom Morris?
Wichita, KS
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Recently, I was able to purchase a 1-year old local t45-54. ?I sold my JP and other personal belongings to generate $ and free up space. ?I would say that getting used local was what allowed it to make sense to me. ?A lower price than new with savings on tax and shipping. ?I have found that if you buy the right recent model Martin, the value holds up very nicely compared to many other manufacturers of other machinery. ? I have known people to recently sell for around what they paid. ?For the past 15 years, I have driven economical cars until they had over 170+k miles, and certainly find machinery to be a better use of $ than upscale cars. ?
For you, if asking about Tersa vs spiral, that suggests you are buying new, and that is where you pay tens of thousands more total, but you get to pick what you want.
For me, the machines came with spiral, which is an option that is associated with a significant price increase for each machine when buying new. ?I was wondering if that was best. ?I looked at forums and talked to people who had one or the other or both. I know 1 who had Tersa on his Martin, and changed to spiral and was happy with it. ?People with Tersa love Terse. ?People with Spiral love spiral. ?Seems like the spiral is more quiet, but on these machines, both are quiet. ?Then there are the obvious differences of how you change knives, longevity, cut seems great with both, chip size etc. ?In your case, if a toss up, you save $ with Tersa so you have to appreciate an advantage to justify the price increase.
My jointer came with an infeed extension that I wish I did not have as for space. ?Now that I have it, I do like it, but be aware, the infeed and outfeed extensions can't be retrofitted, and are not meant to be taken off. ?With the "Space savings" configuration, having the outfeed extension, works for space, but the infeed extension adds overall length. ?If you have the space, you may want both. ?I think the waxilit table that came with mine is of no value as I prefer Renaissance wax, but that is just me. ?Consider the 2nd outfeed roller I wish I had as that allows shorter pieces to come out so you can grab them without reaching under the rubber flaps.
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Thanks for the input on the cutter block selection. Rough cost is +$4k per machine for spiral over Tersa which breaks the bank if I didn't already.? Joel if you bought your machines recently there was an ad in California where a guy had both machines for one year and listed on woodweb by the dealer.? I reached out to the seller (dealer) and I didn't even get a reply back. That's pretty much been my experience with that same dealer when I was looking at a T65C.? Too bad I couldn't find these machines used!??
For the jointer I bought standard bed which is going to be good for me. The planer has options for collapsible 450MM infeed and outfeed tables or 1500MM permanently fixed I did not opt for either but thinking of adding the smaller extensions.? The Martin rep suggested I get the auto lubricator for the machine I don't have much else for options. Good to know on that roller only an owner would know small things like that make a big difference.?
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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When you get into Martin type quality of planer design, Tersa vs Spiral is more about dust collection than finish quality.? Tersa excels on a top end machine, Spiral compensates for design compromises.? You do need more cfm on your DC with Tersa for sure.?
Dave
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Thanks for the input on the cutter block selection. Rough cost is +$4k per machine for spiral over Tersa which breaks the bank if I didn't already.? Joel if you bought your machines recently there was an ad in California where a guy had both machines for
one year and listed on woodweb by the dealer.? I reached out to the seller (dealer) and I didn't even get a reply back. That's pretty much been my experience with that same dealer when I was looking at a T65C.? Too bad I couldn't find these machines used!??
For the jointer I bought standard bed which is going to be good for me. The planer has options for collapsible 450MM infeed and outfeed tables or 1500MM permanently fixed I did not opt for either but thinking of adding the smaller extensions.? The Martin rep
suggested I get the auto lubricator for the machine I don't have much else for options. Good to know on that roller only an owner would know small things like that make a big difference.?
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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I purchased those machines, and sold my TP-300 within 24 hours of placing it up for sale. ?I have known the dealer you are referring to for many years. ?It is not often that these become available recent model without too much use, and although the timing was not perfect, I found a way to make it happen as I did not think I would have that situation ever again. ?Now that I have them, I feel very fortunate, and while I did not "need" them, it is so much nicer and faster to process wood with separates, and I hope to have them until I can't do woodworking any more.
Personally, I would not get the folding planer infeed extension at this time, especially if you can confirm it can be easily added at a later time. ?I do not think you need support when feeding, but up to you. ?However, on the outfeed side, I think the 1500MM permanently fixed is very nice, especially if you use the "space saving configuration". ?It moves up and down with the table in a way that the wood always clears the overhanging jointer fence that protrudes behind the jointer. ?When you are feeding, nice to know you can feed multiple pieces or longer pieces, and they will not fall off the outfeed end.?
As for the Waxilit auto lubricator, maybe depends on your usage. ?For me, I like the Renaissance along with the Festool green Flies pads.
As an FYI, it is my understanding that you can't get the Waxilit table and the infeed fold-down together. ?One or the other. ?You may want to confirm that with the dealer. ?For me, I got the Waxilit I did not want, and that is of course the tradeoff for used, but for me it was worth it to not get everything exactly as I would have preferred due to the cost savings of used local over new. ?
I know a couple of people who have their machines against the wall and 1 that does not, and I think it is way nicer if you can have room to talk ?behind the planer (opposite the jointer) assuming you have them together. ?I moved a lot of things around to have that footprint, and am very happy I did that. ?
All personal preferences of course. ?Congratulations. ?
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I built a 42” x 26” extension for my 25.5 jp About 6’ from outfeed roll, Very handy , putting extensions on jointer bar style for 20” felder extensions and longer one with leg some day.
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 12, 2023, at 11:14 AM, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
I purchased those machines, and sold my TP-300 within 24 hours of placing it up for sale. ?I have known the dealer you are referring to for many years. ?It is not often that these become available recent model without too much use, and although the timing was not perfect, I found a way to make it happen as I did not think I would have that situation ever again. ?Now that I have them, I feel very fortunate, and while I did not "need" them, it is so much nicer and faster to process wood with separates, and I hope to have them until I can't do woodworking any more. Personally, I would not get the folding planer infeed extension at this time, especially if you can confirm it can be easily added at a later time. ?I do not think you need support when feeding, but up to you. ?However, on the outfeed side, I think the 1500MM permanently fixed is very nice, especially if you use the "space saving configuration". ?It moves up and down with the table in a way that the wood always clears the overhanging jointer fence that protrudes behind the jointer. ?When you are feeding, nice to know you can feed multiple pieces or longer pieces, and they will not fall off the outfeed end.? As for the Waxilit auto lubricator, maybe depends on your usage. ?For me, I like the Renaissance along with the Festool green Flies pads. As an FYI, it is my understanding that you can't get the Waxilit table and the infeed fold-down together. ?One or the other. ?You may want to confirm that with the dealer. ?For me, I got the Waxilit I did not want, and that is of course the tradeoff for used, but for me it was worth it to not get everything exactly as I would have preferred due to the cost savings of used local over new. ? I know a couple of people who have their machines against the wall and 1 that does not, and I think it is way nicer if you can have room to talk ?behind the planer (opposite the jointer) assuming you have them together. ?I moved a lot of things around to have that footprint, and am very happy I did that. ? All personal preferences of course. ?Congratulations. ?
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Please don't ever tell me how much you saved buying the two machines used : )? ?This is the lubricator from the catalog recommended by Martin. Not the waxilit version this is for the machine itself not material feeding.?  Jay Bowen Cleveland
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I would spring for the pump lube. There are several oil nipples on the planer and a pain to do with the hand pump they supply.
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To clarify, I was referring to the Waxilit. ?So, instead of telling you how much I saved, I will tell you how nice it is that you get to have the machines exactly how you want them with warranty, oh, and in the new color (unless you want to pay a premium to have the old color for some reason).?
Do carefully consider the longer jointer beds if you have the space. For me, if I was buying new, I would not have picked extensions. ?When I realized if I were to get used, ?I would have to deal with the longer infeed on the "Aircraft Carrier" it was almost a deal breaker. ?I had to make major changes in layout and dust collection to have it fit without being cramped. ?However, now that I have it, I am very happy to have the extra infeed and wish I had the extra outfeed also, especially since that does not change the overall layout when paired with the planer that is far proud of the jointer outfeed. ?Also nice to have that extra space on the infeed side not only for when flattening long boards, but to place several boards awaiting to be fed one at a time.
I think it is like a slider where everyone advises to go longer if you have the space as you will never regret and wish you had shorter. ?Just my 0.02 if and only if you have the space.
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Hi Joel, I’ve enjoyed reading along with this post. Would you care to share some pics of your new machines? As they say, a picture tells a thousand words!?
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On Mar 13, 2023, at 2:26 PM, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
? To clarify, I was referring to the Waxilit. ?So, instead of telling you how much I saved, I will tell you how nice it is that you get to have the machines exactly how you want them with warranty, oh, and in the new color (unless you want to pay a premium to have the old color for some reason).?
Do carefully consider the longer jointer beds if you have the space. For me, if I was buying new, I would not have picked extensions. ?When I realized if I were to get used, ?I would have to deal with the longer infeed on the "Aircraft Carrier" it was almost a deal breaker. ?I had to make major changes in layout and dust collection to have it fit without being cramped. ?However, now that I have it, I am very happy to have the extra infeed and wish I had the extra outfeed also, especially since that does not change the overall layout when paired with the planer that is far proud of the jointer outfeed. ?Also nice to have that extra space on the infeed side not only for when flattening long boards, but to place several boards awaiting to be fed one at a time.
I think it is like a slider where everyone advises to go longer if you have the space as you will never regret and wish you had shorter. ?Just my 0.02 if and only if you have the space.
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Joel, Did you get the auto drool scrubber option on those machines? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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No auto drool scrubber. ?That was way too expensive. ? I would rather spend the money on wood and a Greene and Greene furniture making workshop so some day, I will hopefully be able to make a beautiful sink-vanity like this for drool clean up. ....
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Designing and building for 50 years
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Jason Holtz
Joe Jensen
David P. Best
Dan Gavrilyuk
