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K700 Start up

 
Edited

Hi All,

I have been through the threads on K700 start up issues and haven't been able to resolve mine. I haven't spoken to Felder yet as its a long weekend. Here are the symptoms and my steps to remedy:

1. Saw started to have intermittent starts - jiggled the saw blade door to cycle the safety switch - rotated the main power switch and saw would start again.
2. This would happen at random times, cleaned the safety switch - still happening.
3. Finally went dead - no start at all.

I swapped out the start and run caps for new on hand, they come back in good state at test, but I may have goofed their wiring positions - see below pic

I took the blade guard door wiring out and jumped the slots to see if I could bypass the safety switch to test... will this work? - see pic below

I get proper voltage from the wall to the main power switch, but I don't here any magnetic clicks when saw is plugged in or power toggle flipped....

Both fuses test as working.

The saw is single phase, 2008 K700 with a 3Kw motor.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, specifically if I should be hearing any magnetic pops when power is activated??

Much Appreciated,

Alex
Bespoke Woodworking
 

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Hi Alex,

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It is difficult to help someone troubleshoot this way because after every observation there are multiple paths of action. But here is what I can share.

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  1. There is no relay activation when power is applied. They are inactive whether power is applied or not.
  2. 24VAC (safety circuit) has many switched in series and all switches need to be closed (and wiring connections solid) for the green start switch to have 24VAC on one of its terminals. If the start switch does not have 24VAC on one of its terminals then something in the safety circuit chain is open.
  3. If you have power at the green start switch, then pressing it should engage the start relay (labeled 1KS in the wiring diagram of 2007 KF700). Once start relay is energized its contacts will energize Run Relay (labeled 1K1 below). Start relay deenergizes when green button is let go.
    1. Start cap (1C2) and run cap (1C1) are engaged while start relay is engaged. Run cap remains engaged while motor is running.
  4. I would beep out each connection of the capacitor circuit using your machine wiring diagram and be assured that everything is connected correctly.
  5. The schematic below has the sliding door for the entire opening, I believe your machine has the hinged cover for the blade area. You can bypass the door switch by shorting the wires of the switch. For example in the case below, sliding door switch is 1S3. To short this switch you will short X2 blocks terminals 4 & 5. If the machine was wired correctly, in the case below, terminal 4 should have a wire labeled 1 and terminal 5 should have a wire labeled 2.

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HTH,

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Imran Malik

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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Bespoke Woodworking via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2024 11:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] K700 Start up

?

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi All,

I have been through the threads on K700 start up issues and haven't been able to resolve mine. I haven't spoken to Felder yet as its a long weekend. Here are the symptoms and my steps to remedy:

1. Saw started to have intermittent starts - jiggled the saw blade door to cycle the safety switch - rotated the main power switch and saw would start again.
2. This would happen at random times, cleaned the safety switch - still happening.
3. Finally went dead - no start at all.

I swapped out the start and run caps for new on hand, they come back in good state at test, but I may have goofed their wiring positions - see below pic

I took the blade guard door wiring out and jumped the slots to see if I could bypass the safety switch to test... will this work? - see pic below

I get proper voltage from the wall to the main power switch, but I don't here any magnetic clicks when saw is plugged in or power toggle flipped....

Both fuses test as working.

The saw is single phase, 2008 K700 with a 3Kw motor.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, specifically if I should be hearing any magnetic pops when power is activated??

Much Appreciated,

Alex
Bespoke Woodworking
 

Important Safety Advice:

In these no start situations please remove the blades. You never know when the machine is going to start and you don’t want to be reaching in period and absolutely NOT with safety disabled. Still got to watch for the arbor.

Imran
 

Hi Imran,

Thanks for the reply, and the safety reminder.

Your points above all make sense, and it would seem like I am not getting 24VAC to the green start button, which leads me to believe its the safety cover switch. I will confirm the capacitors as well.

I have attached the wiring diagram for my machine below. I can see the limiter switch for sliding cover at #1 and #2.? I think that is the one I want to short?

Much appreciated,

Alex
 

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The image is low res and hard to read. It appears you want to short X2 terminals 4 & 1.

I recommend that you just probe with a volt meter on AC setting starting from the transformer. You will see the voltage disappear where it is open.

Imran Malik

On Jun 29, 2024, at 1:50?PM, Bespoke Woodworking via groups.io <info@...> wrote:

?Hi Imran,

Thanks for the reply, and the safety reminder.

Your points above all make sense, and it would seem like I am not getting 24VAC to the green start button, which leads me to believe its the safety cover switch. I will confirm the capacitors as well.

I have attached the wiring diagram for my machine below. I can see the limiter switch for sliding cover at #1 and #2.? I think that is the one I want to short?

Much appreciated,

Alex

<wiring.jpg>
 

I guess the forum software compresses the image?

I think I can wrap my head around tracing the AC to where its open...

I will give it a shot. Thanks Imran.
 

So on the plug side of the main power switch I get 220v as I should, but on the other side of the switch when it is 'on' I get 14v?

I honestly don't know if I have cycled that switch 6x in the last 4 years.....
 

Solved.

Popped the switch out , burnt plastic.

Connected directly and off the saw goes.

If I was a little more electrically inclined, I guess I would know you should always start and the wall and work your way in??

Thanks for the help Imran.

Alex
 

Alex,

Download an app called Camscanner....it FREE!
You can shoot (with your phone camera) a document?and send it as a highly readable PDF file that can be magnified almost with no limit!

Kind regards,

Brian D. Milidrag
Cell?248.765.8411?


On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 2:34?PM Bespoke Woodworking via <info=[email protected]> wrote:
I guess the forum software compresses the image?

I think I can wrap my head around tracing the AC to where its open...

I will give it a shot. Thanks Imran.
 

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Well done Alex. Yes alway start at the input when suspecting power issue unless something obvious says otherwise.

If you have the time, please share a pic of the burnt plastic. Did you find any dust when you opened it? If the contacts were not allowed to mash by the dust, it can create a resistive connection which can get hot.

Imran Malik

On Jun 29, 2024, at 3:11?PM, Bespoke Woodworking via groups.io <info@...> wrote:

?Solved.

Popped the switch out , burnt plastic.

Connected directly and off the saw goes.

If I was a little more electrically inclined, I guess I would know you should always start and the wall and work your way in??

Thanks for the help Imran.

Alex

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