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I saw that the Felder parallel fence can be removed from the extension table, so you left with just the table extension.
I wonder if it is something that is comfortable to do (put the parallel fence on and off) and if it isn’t too long.
I originally thought to get the regular table extension and Lamb tool parallel fence,
But if the Felder parallel can easily perform both tasks, there is a significant price advantage. (Felder’s parallel guide costs $480, which is only $180 above the regular support table)
Any thoughts?
?
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I'm biased obviously, but the Felder parallel fence weighs about 26 pounds, and sticks out almost 2 meters from the blade when pulled out. Ours weigh about 8 pounds, and stick out 20" collapsed and 45" or so fully extended, much easier to walk/work around. You also have the option of digital accuracy with our units, which Felder doesn't offer.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, July 4, 2024 at 07:55:02 AM MST, netanel.belgazal@... <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
I saw that the Felder parallel fence can be removed from the extension table, so you left with just the table extension.
I wonder if it is something that is comfortable to do (put the parallel fence on and off) and if it isn’t too long.
I originally thought to get the regular table extension and Lamb tool parallel fence,
But if the Felder parallel can easily perform both tasks, there is a significant price advantage. (Felder’s parallel guide costs $480, which is only $180 above the regular support table)
Any thoughts?
?
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Brian,
Your parallel fence is a work of art.? The quality is palpable.? No dig on the Felder option, but just like Mac's Clamps, you cannot compare them to the Felder option.
I ended up buying a second set of Mac's Clamps and I am sure I will be buying another Lamb Parallel fence also.
PK
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I have the felder and like it. ?But I would go with brians
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I'm biased obviously, but the Felder parallel fence weighs about 26 pounds, and sticks out almost 2 meters from the blade when pulled out. Ours weigh about 8 pounds, and stick out 20" collapsed and 45" or so fully extended,
much easier to walk/work around. You also have the option of digital accuracy with our units, which Felder doesn't offer.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, July 4, 2024 at 07:55:02 AM MST, netanel.belgazal@... <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
I saw that the Felder parallel fence can be removed from the extension table, so you left with just the table extension.
I wonder if it is something that is comfortable to do (put the parallel fence on and off) and if it isn’t too long.
I originally thought to get the regular table extension and Lamb tool parallel fence,
But if the Felder parallel can easily perform both tasks, there is a significant price advantage. (Felder’s parallel guide costs $480, which is only $180 above the regular support table)
Any thoughts?
?
-- Michael Marsico
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PK, thank you for the recommendation and comments. One other thing, I haven't experienced it, but folks claim the Felder unit has a lot of parallax error due to the height of the hairline pointer over the scale. We designed ours where the hairline is within about .020" (half a mm) of the scale for the least amount of parallax possible.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, July 4, 2024 at 09:12:35 AM MST, PK <pk@...> wrote:
Brian,
Your parallel fence is a work of art.? The quality is palpable.? No dig on the Felder option, but just like Mac's Clamps, you cannot compare them to the Felder option.
I ended up buying a second set of Mac's Clamps and I am sure I will be buying another Lamp Parallel fence also.
PK?
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Thanks everyone,
If Felder's parallel guide sticks out 2m it is a deal breaker for me.
From what I see, you always need to calibrate the parallel fence to a the blade (and usually use the same calibration device as you do on the crosscut fence.
So I wonder what is the added value of using the DRO vs the analog version?
Brian - I'll PM you shortly about your fence.
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I use a specific procedure that I detailed in the DRO upgrade instructions, which i will attach here. It has been my experience that once set, they stay and don't need re-setting unless you change something.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, July 4, 2024 at 09:42:11 AM MST, <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
Thanks everyone,
If Felder's parallel guide sticks out 2m it is a deal breaker for me.
From what I see, you always need to calibrate the parallel fence to a the blade (and usually use the same calibration device as you do on the crosscut fence.
So I wonder what is the added value of using the DRO vs the analog version?
Brian - I'll PM you shortly about your fence.
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I have Brian’s parallel fence as well as the felder version. ?The felder version is good if you mainly want to use the table extension part. ?However it is not very accurate to read as compared to Brians. ?His gives you the ability to be very precise and has advantage of repeatability. ?I actually have never used the felder version since I got Brians. ?Occasionally I use the table extension part of FELDER’s ,but generally it just collects sawdust.
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On Jul 4, 2024, at 10:26?AM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? PK, thank you for the recommendation and comments. One other thing, I haven't experienced it, but folks claim the Felder unit has a lot of parallax error due to the height of the hairline pointer over the scale. We designed ours where the hairline is within about .020" (half a mm) of the scale for the least amount of parallax possible.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, July 4, 2024 at 09:12:35 AM MST, PK <pk@...> wrote:
Brian,
Your parallel fence is a work of art.? The quality is palpable.? No dig on the Felder option, but just like Mac's Clamps, you cannot compare them to the Felder option.
I ended up buying a second set of Mac's Clamps and I am sure I will be buying another Lamp Parallel fence also.
PK?
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David Best has a document that goes into detail on both the Felder and Lamb parallel fences.? That being said, there are two things that stopped me from going with the Felder parallel fence:
1. While you can do up to 39" parallel cut, the Felder item is really long and becomes a serious obstruction when working around the saw.? Storage of this really long and heavy item can be a challenge as well.? Even the short Lamb parallel fence can be somewhat of an obstruction when working around the saw, but it's much easier to work with.
2. The height of the hairline pointer on the Felder site gauge can easily cause your result to be up to 1/32" off (this is enough to cause mis-fitting of wood during assembly!!).? Actually, you can be up to 1/16" off if you're not paying attention.? This is the same problem with the Felder non-DRO stock flip-stop on the crosscut fence.? Frankly, it's a pain to use.
The Lamb parallel fence is actually quicker and easier to mount/un-mount when compared to the Felder.? See Felder demo here at the 14:23 minute point on this video:
These are the main reasons I went with the Lamb solutions.? I have been extremely impressed with the quality of materials as well as the design/engineering of the Lamb devices.? I have both the parallel fence and DRO flip-stop from Lamb Toolworks.? These are excellent devices and well worth the money.? In reality, if you are doing a cut that is larger than 24", the material is large enough where the crosscut fence can ensure a square cut.? In my situation, I was able to mount the measuring tape on my Lamb parallel fence to get a 27-1/2" cut.? The actual max distance will vary depending on your machine/setup.? In my opinion, the only time where you would need the Felder solution is if you are doing a larger parallel cut when the material has an uneven or rounded end (where the crosscut fence becomes useless).? I really don't see this scenario happening for 99% of the projects you work on.? Alternatively, a track saw could be the solution for that scenario.
Be aware that the edge of the sliding table is not 100% perfect.? There can be a 0.010" to 0.020" variance on the flatness of the mounting edge for the parallel fence.? This is actually pretty darn straight for an extruded aluminum product.? See here:
You can see that the edge goes to 0.010" pretty quickly and stays there until you get to the end of the sliding table where it drifts to 0.020".? I typically mount my parallel fence around 3-5 feet away from the crosscut fence and have it calibrated for that area.? I have the analog version and have had no problems with the accuracy.? The analog version is actually quicker to set for a particular distance than the DRO version.? For example it's very fast to slide the fence to exactly 10-1/2" and lock it in.? With the DRO, you have to move slowly and try to adjust/tap the rail until it's right at your chosen distance.? Though, if you're splitting hairs and 0.03" variance matters, then the DRO unit is probably what you want.
-Aaron
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Hi Aaron,
All great points, but one thing, your indicating of the side of the slider is not on the area that the fence mounts to. Try the vertical face on the inside of the prism, that's what locates the parallel fences, both mine and Felder's. My machine is the pre-X-roll and it has a large steel bar and it runs pretty much dead nuts. Not having the Felder X-roll, I haven't checked one.... so there may be machining tolerances from Felder there to deal with. It would be pretty easy to clamp a block to the steel table, or use your rip fence set at zero, and then mount the parallel fence all up and down the slider and check to that first zero you get and see if there is any variance.
Again, mine mounted on the steel rail repeats within .002-.003" all up and down the slider.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, July 4, 2024 at 10:42:19 AM MST, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
David Best has a document that goes into detail on both the Felder and Lamb parallel fences.? That being said, there are two things that stopped me from going with the Felder parallel fence:
1. While you can do up to 39" parallel cut, the Felder item is really long and becomes a serious obstruction when working around the saw.? Storage of this really long and heavy item can be a challenge as well.? Even the short Lamb parallel fence can be somewhat of an obstruction when working around the saw, but it's much easier to work with.
2. The height of the hairline pointer on the Felder site gauge can easily cause your result to be up to 1/32" off (this is enough to cause mis-fitting of wood during assembly!!).? Actually, you can be up to 1/16" off if you're not paying attention.? This is the same problem with the Felder non-DRO stock flip-stop on the crosscut fence.? Frankly, it's a pain to use.
The Lamb parallel fence is actually quicker and easier to mount/un-mount when compared to the Felder.? See Felder demo here at the 14:23 minute point on this video:
These are the main reasons I went with the Lamb solutions.? I have been extremely impressed with the quality of materials as well as the design/engineering of the Lamb devices.? I have both the parallel fence and DRO flip-stop from Lamb Toolworks.? These are excellent devices and well worth the money.? In reality, if you are doing a cut that is larger than 24", the material is large enough where the crosscut fence can ensure a square cut.? In my situation, I was able to mount the measuring tape on my Lamb parallel fence to get a 27-1/2" cut.? The actual max distance will vary depending on your machine/setup.? In my opinion, the only time where you would need the Felder solution is if you are doing a larger parallel cut when the material has an uneven or rounded end (where the crosscut fence becomes useless).? I really don't see this scenario happening for 99% of the projects you work on.? Alternatively, a track saw could be the solution for that scenario.
Be aware that the edge of the sliding table is not 100% perfect.? There can be a 0.010" to 0.020" variance on the flatness of the mounting edge for the parallel fence.? This is actually pretty darn straight for an extruded aluminum product.? See here:
You can see that the edge goes to 0.010" pretty quickly and stays there until you get to the end of the sliding table where it drifts to 0.020".? I typically mount my parallel fence around 3-5 feet away from the crosscut fence and have it calibrated for that area.? I have the analog version and have had no problems with the accuracy.? The analog version is actually quicker to set for a particular distance than the DRO version.? For example it's very fast to slide the fence to exactly 10-1/2" and lock it in.? With the DRO, you have to move slowly and try to adjust/tap the rail until it's right at your chosen distance.? Though, if you're splitting hairs and 0.03" variance matters, then the DRO unit is probably what you want.
-Aaron
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If funds are tight, you already have the shorter extension table and you are able to pickup the end assembly of the Felder parallel fence from someone whose is collecting dust then what I did may be an option. See link below.
As pointed out, Felder’s version sticks out too much. The parallax is not an issue for me, as I use the copy stick to set the parallel fence stop.
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On Jul 4, 2024, at 1:42?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote: ?David Best has a document that goes into detail on both the Felder and Lamb parallel fences.? That being said, there are two things that stopped me from going with the Felder parallel fence:
1. While you can do up to 39" parallel cut, the Felder item is really long and becomes a serious obstruction when working around the saw.? Storage of this really long and heavy item can be a challenge as well.? Even the short Lamb parallel fence can be somewhat of an obstruction when working around the saw, but it's much easier to work with.
2. The height of the hairline pointer on the Felder site gauge can easily cause your result to be up to 1/32" off (this is enough to cause mis-fitting of wood during assembly!!).? Actually, you can be up to 1/16" off if you're not paying attention.? This is the same problem with the Felder non-DRO stock flip-stop on the crosscut fence.? Frankly, it's a pain to use.
The Lamb parallel fence is actually quicker and easier to mount/un-mount when compared to the Felder.? See Felder demo here at the 14:23 minute point on this video:
These are the main reasons I went with the Lamb solutions.? I have been extremely impressed with the quality of materials as well as the design/engineering of the Lamb devices.? I have both the parallel fence and DRO flip-stop from Lamb Toolworks.? These are excellent devices and well worth the money.? In reality, if you are doing a cut that is larger than 24", the material is large enough where the crosscut fence can ensure a square cut.? In my situation, I was able to mount the measuring tape on my Lamb parallel fence to get a 27-1/2" cut.? The actual max distance will vary depending on your machine/setup.? In my opinion, the only time where you would need the Felder solution is if you are doing a larger parallel cut when the material has an uneven or rounded end (where the crosscut fence becomes useless).? I really don't see this scenario happening for 99% of the projects you work on.? Alternatively, a track saw could be the solution for that scenario.
Be aware that the edge of the sliding table is not 100% perfect.? There can be a 0.010" to 0.020" variance on the flatness of the mounting edge for the parallel fence.? This is actually pretty darn straight for an extruded aluminum product.? See here:
You can see that the edge goes to 0.010" pretty quickly and stays there until you get to the end of the sliding table where it drifts to 0.020".? I typically mount my parallel fence around 3-5 feet away from the crosscut fence and have it calibrated for that area.? I have the analog version and have had no problems with the accuracy.? The analog version is actually quicker to set for a particular distance than the DRO version.? For example it's very fast to slide the fence to exactly 10-1/2" and lock it in.? With the DRO, you have to move slowly and try to adjust/tap the rail until it's right at your chosen distance.? Though, if you're splitting hairs and 0.03" variance matters, then the DRO unit is probably what you want.
-Aaron
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That video with the indicator to the outside of the sliding table is misleading. ?The only reference surface on the sliding table that has been machined to be straight and parallel to the bearing ways of the sliding table is the top of the Prism feature along the edge. ?Neither the outside or inside vertical edge of the P-channels is flat or coplanar to the table movement or distance to the blade. Only the to “A-shaped” edges are machined to be accurate in this regard. ?
Here is a link to a video demonstrating the variance at the inside edge of the P-channel.
Here is a link to a video demonstrating that the top machined edges of the P-channel corrects for the variances in the table extrusion:
I own a use three different types of parallel fence systems on my Kappa 400 which I’ve described in detail in the document that Arron referenced. ?They all have their advantages and disadvantages. ?I do not recommend the Felder version for accurate parallel fence work - Brian’s is a distinctly better choice if you can live with the maximum width restriction of about 26” (compared to the 43” Felder version). ?And the upgrade of his fence to utilize a linear rail for the moving fence element must be a very nice improvement. ?The parallax error that is induced by the position of the index mark relative to the measurement rule on the Felder system makes it extremely tedious to set a distance that is accurate to within ±2mm. ?In this regard Brian’s fence is far superior.?
David Best www.davidpbest.com
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Jul 4, 2024, at 10:42?AM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:
David Best has a document that goes into detail on both the Felder and Lamb parallel fences.? That being said, there are two things that stopped me from going with the Felder parallel fence:
1. While you can do up to 39" parallel cut, the Felder item is really long and becomes a serious obstruction when working around the saw.? Storage of this really long and heavy item can be a challenge as well.? Even the short Lamb parallel fence can be somewhat of an obstruction when working around the saw, but it's much easier to work with.
2. The height of the hairline pointer on the Felder site gauge can easily cause your result to be up to 1/32" off (this is enough to cause mis-fitting of wood during assembly!!).? Actually, you can be up to 1/16" off if you're not paying attention.? This is the same problem with the Felder non-DRO stock flip-stop on the crosscut fence.? Frankly, it's a pain to use.
The Lamb parallel fence is actually quicker and easier to mount/un-mount when compared to the Felder.? See Felder demo here at the 14:23 minute point on this video:
These are the main reasons I went with the Lamb solutions.? I have been extremely impressed with the quality of materials as well as the design/engineering of the Lamb devices.? I have both the parallel fence and DRO flip-stop from Lamb Toolworks.? These are excellent devices and well worth the money.? In reality, if you are doing a cut that is larger than 24", the material is large enough where the crosscut fence can ensure a square cut.? In my situation, I was able to mount the measuring tape on my Lamb parallel fence to get a 27-1/2" cut.? The actual max distance will vary depending on your machine/setup.? In my opinion, the only time where you would need the Felder solution is if you are doing a larger parallel cut when the material has an uneven or rounded end (where the crosscut fence becomes useless).? I really don't see this scenario happening for 99% of the projects you work on.? Alternatively, a track saw could be the solution for that scenario.
Be aware that the edge of the sliding table is not 100% perfect.? There can be a 0.010" to 0.020" variance on the flatness of the mounting edge for the parallel fence.? This is actually pretty darn straight for an extruded aluminum product.? See here:
You can see that the edge goes to 0.010" pretty quickly and stays there until you get to the end of the sliding table where it drifts to 0.020".? I typically mount my parallel fence around 3-5 feet away from the crosscut fence and have it calibrated for that area.? I have the analog version and have had no problems with the accuracy.? The analog version is actually quicker to set for a particular distance than the DRO version.? For example it's very fast to slide the fence to exactly 10-1/2" and lock it in.? With the DRO, you have to move slowly and try to adjust/tap the rail until it's right at your chosen distance.? Though, if you're splitting hairs and 0.03" variance matters, then the DRO unit is probably what you want.
-Aaron
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I ordered the short (50cm) support rail and will get Brian’s parallel fence.?
?
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PK
imran
David P. Best