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Hello, you excellent people,
First time to the group, looking to take the plunge on (relatively) big iron ownership, hoping to run my selection process by you and hopefully reined in if it gets too crazy.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, averaging few hours a week in my two-car-garage-turned-shop. While I used Unisaws and Sawstops in the past, I never bought a table saw for myself, making do with a bandsaw, track saw, lately a miter saw and a peculiar contraption that goes by the name Shopsmith. After ten years in this mode, I just about had it. Sliding table has been on my mind for some time, though I never used one. Long story short, over several months I persuaded myself that I need one in my life.
Most of the work I do is with solid wood, though a recent remodel forced me to deal with cabinetry. Generally, while having a capability to work with sheet goods is appreciated, this is not where I see spending the majority of my time.
Given that I do not have a big space, I made a couple optimization decisions. First, I'd like a saw-shaper combo. While I never used a shaper before, I can see the usefulness of the tool. It also synergizes well with a sliding table, making the combp significantly cheaper than having it a standalone tool. I expect to use it as a router half of the time, and to mill end grain joints — most of the other half.
Second, I am seriously considering a short stroke. Cross-cutting a baltic birch sheet is the largest job I see myself doing, so a 1550mm table should be enough. For long boards, there's the rip fence and from what I understand, a shorter table actually makes it easier to access. This goes against my natural "more is better" instinct so I would appreciate pointing out if I am about to make an expensive mistake.
With that in mind, I have narrowed my Felder options to KF500 and KF700. The more expensive option is in the consideration mainly because of the DROs available for tilt and rip fence. Is it really worth the 40% higher cost? (For that matter, might I be equally happy with a Hammer option?) I am considering a belt-driven scoring blade and a dado option no matter the model I end up with.
Sorry for the long form. Please roast my selection and thought process. Any feedback is highly appreciated.
Cheers, Stan
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Stan, a couple of questions for clarification. ?
Will you need to move this machine around from time to time? Are you restricted to single-phase power? Do you know what “straight-line ripping” is? ?If not,?. ?This might seriously impact your perception of how long a sliding table you will want. ?
Some comments:
A short slider will have a lower resale value. ?I bring this up because so many people who are first-time slider buyers end up upgrading to a new machine to get a longer sliding table - yes, even those who work predominantly with solid wood making furniture.
Depending on which model you are looking at specifically, the KF700 weighs 40-60 percent more than the equivalent KF500. ?The weight difference is reflective of the more robust and rigid build quality of the 700 series. ?A KF500 is basically a Hammer machine guts/chassis with the X-Roll sliding table from the KF700 series. ?
The message archives on FOG are full of threads on commonly asked questions, and the search facility is pretty good. ?So avail yourself of the archive posts.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 24, 2025, at 4:03?PM, Stan K via groups.io <4279427@...> wrote:
Hello, you excellent people,
First time to the group, looking to take the plunge on (relatively) big iron ownership, hoping to run my selection process by you and hopefully reined in if it gets too crazy.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, averaging few hours a week in my two-car-garage-turned-shop. While I used Unisaws and Sawstops in the past, I never bought a table saw for myself, making do with a bandsaw, track saw, lately a miter saw and a peculiar contraption that goes by the name Shopsmith. After ten years in this mode, I just about had it. Sliding table has been on my mind for some time, though I never used one. Long story short, over several months I persuaded myself that I need one in my life.
Most of the work I do is with solid wood, though a recent remodel forced me to deal with cabinetry. Generally, while having a capability to work with sheet goods is appreciated, this is not where I see spending the majority of my time.
Given that I do not have a big space, I made a couple optimization decisions. First, I'd like a saw-shaper combo. While I never used a shaper before, I can see the usefulness of the tool. It also synergizes well with a sliding table, making the combp significantly cheaper than having it a standalone tool. I expect to use it as a router half of the time, and to mill end grain joints — most of the other half.
Second, I am seriously considering a short stroke. Cross-cutting a baltic birch sheet is the largest job I see myself doing, so a 1550mm table should be enough. For long boards, there's the rip fence and from what I understand, a shorter table actually makes it easier to access. This goes against my natural "more is better" instinct so I would appreciate pointing out if I am about to make an expensive mistake.
With that in mind, I have narrowed my Felder options to KF500 and KF700. The more expensive option is in the consideration mainly because of the DROs available for tilt and rip fence. Is it really worth the 40% higher cost? (For that matter, might I be equally happy with a Hammer option?) I am considering a belt-driven scoring blade and a dado option no matter the model I end up with.
Sorry for the long form. Please roast my selection and thought process. Any feedback is highly appreciated.
Cheers, Stan
<publickey - 4279427@... - 0xCAA04E5D.asc>
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Hi Stan:
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There are plenty of ‘solid wood people’ on this forum so I’m thinking you may well receive many relevant responses. I don’t know how big your space really is although a lot more machinery can be crammed and used in a ‘small space’ than
some think. It might be useful for you to tell us how much space you actually have. Please include the ceiling height, and whether the space has to function for other things like laundry, gardening equipment, cars, cellared wine (LOL), etc.
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I am almost exclusively a solid wood person. The question of how long a slider you should purchase has a couple of considerations of which manufactured-board processing is only one. A more important question is about the typical size of
projects you make. Do you see yourself making Krenov-sized cabinet-on-stand projects, or do you see yourself making king-size bed frames and large dining room tables? Volume is also important. If you only have one large dining room table project to make that’s
one thing. But if you see yourself making several dining room tables that’s another. As a solid wood person, the key reason to want a longer slider has to do with straight line ripping. I like to face plane solid timber to 70-80% dressed, then straight line
rip, then thickness to 100% on both sides, then select project components on the basis of colour, grain, working around cracks and defects, etc. For that process, I use my sliding tablesaw with 3200mm (10ft) slider all the time for ripping and crosscutting.
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If I had a 1550mm slider, I’d exceed that ripping length on almost every project I make. This would greatly reduce the usability of the slider as I’d have to rip on the bandsaw more often, and use a track saw, with associated losses of
efficiency, satisfaction, accuracy, etc. But short sliders can and do work for many. Maybe you can now see why I’ve asked about the size of your projects because this scenario (of needing a longer table) may not happen ‘on almost every project’ for you.
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So then, my vote would be to get the longest slider you can afford and fit into your shop. I understand that a 1550mm might be all you can fit. All good. There are NO downsides in my opinion with longer sliders. I came from a long-term
user of a Unisaw, to a Kappa 400 sliding table saw with 3200mm slider. Standing to the side is safe and excellent. The table is really not in the way. I perform conventional rips all the time without issue and it is safe to do so (in my opinion) because of
the robust overhead saw guard. And the additional weight of the sliding table saw is no big deal. I feared it would be, but using your body to push the outrigger and slider forward, and then your body to pull them back again (using a ‘butt’ bar) is very efficient.
If I’m doing a larger amount of small cross-cutting – for example a few thousand kumiko sticks – I will take off the outrigger. The actual momentum of even a large slider like mine is inconsequential (in my opinion). I’ve owned my slider for nearly 10 years
and have zero regrets – just make sure you get Mac’s pneumatic clamps!
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Regarding the Hammer, 500 or 700 series, I’m biased to the 700 series and higher. Is it worth the uptick? I say emphatically yes. However, if the price just doesn’t sit well with you, I’d actually go for the Hammer over the 500 series.
The Hammer is very functional and there’s plenty of Hammer owners who make outstanding items. I think it boils down to these factors:
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- Higher specification machines help you work must faster. Only you can decide if that is worth the additional outlay.
- Higher specifications often have a satisfaction factor. It is nice (but not necessary) to have fancy machinery to use. Only you can put a price on that.
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And finally, your dado comment is well received. That’s a definite for solid wood work. But the scoring blade? I have it, and I have used it on occasion (like half a dozen times only). But if that’s the difference between moving up a price
bracket I’d lose the scoring blade. I’m a hypocrite because I have an independent and powered scoring blade, and even though I don’t use it very often I do wish I had optioned the full 3-axis version. Ha!
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I hope this helps.
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Warm regards,
Lucky
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Dr David Luckensmeyer
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
?
Hello, you excellent people,
First time to the group, looking to take the plunge on (relatively) big iron ownership, hoping to run my selection process by you and hopefully reined in if it gets too crazy.
I am a hobbyist woodworker, averaging few hours a week in my two-car-garage-turned-shop. While I used Unisaws and Sawstops in the past, I never bought a table saw for myself,
making do with a bandsaw, track saw, lately a miter saw and a peculiar contraption that goes by the name Shopsmith. After ten years in this mode, I just about had it. Sliding table has been on my mind for some time, though I never used one. Long story short,
over several months I persuaded myself that I need one in my life.
Most of the work I do is with solid wood, though a recent remodel forced me to deal with cabinetry. Generally, while having a capability to work with sheet goods is appreciated,
this is not where I see spending the majority of my time.
Given that I do not have a big space, I made a couple optimization decisions. First, I'd like a saw-shaper combo. While I never used a shaper before, I can see the usefulness
of the tool. It also synergizes well with a sliding table, making the combp significantly cheaper than having it a standalone tool. I expect to use it as a router half of the time, and to mill end grain joints — most of the other half.
Second, I am seriously considering a short stroke. Cross-cutting a baltic birch sheet is the largest job I see myself doing, so a 1550mm table should be enough. For long boards, there's the rip fence and from what I understand, a shorter table actually makes
it easier to access. This goes against my natural "more is better" instinct so I would appreciate pointing out if I am about to make an expensive mistake.
With that in mind, I have narrowed my Felder options to KF500 and KF700. The more expensive option is in the consideration mainly because of the DROs available for tilt and rip
fence. Is it really worth the 40% higher cost? (For that matter, might I be equally happy with a Hammer option?) I am considering a belt-driven scoring blade and a dado option no matter the model I end up with.
Sorry for the long form. Please roast my selection and thought process. Any feedback is highly appreciated.
|
I agree with David and Lucky regarding the table length. I have never used the full 10-ft length of my slider, but I have come close enough that I do not regret it.?
Note that the outrigger takes space, as do clamps at the tail end. I usually have unused accessories stored near the tail end of the slider too.?
I work primarily with solids, and am a hobbyist also. I used a Unisaw for over 30 years before transitioning to a slider. The transition to a slider was challenging at times, but I am glad I did it.?
One of the very few subjects I disagree with Lucky about is ripping with the fence on a slider. After all of those years with a Unisaw I am accustomed to standing exactly where the slider is. Reaching over the slider, or standing to the right of the fence, just feels terribly awkward.?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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All good John; but you dare disagree with me!!
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I wonder whether part of it might be relative heights? But maybe not. I’m kind of long in the arm and stand 188cm so after some weeks of exposure to the slider, it seemed kind of easy for me to reach across
and perform a conventional rip. However, you might be the same height or taller but still find it ‘terribly awkward’. All good!
?
Warm regards,
Lucky
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
?
I agree with David and Lucky regarding the table length. I have never used the full 10-ft length of my slider, but I have come close enough that I do not regret it.?
Note that the outrigger takes space, as do clamps at the tail end. I usually have unused accessories stored near the tail end of the slider too.?
I work primarily with solids, and am a hobbyist also. I used a Unisaw for over 30 years before transitioning to a slider. The transition to a slider was challenging at times, but
I am glad I did it.?
One of the very few subjects I disagree with Lucky about is ripping with the fence on a slider. After all of those years with a Unisaw I am accustomed to standing exactly where the slider is. Reaching over
the slider, or standing to the right of the fence, just feels terribly awkward.?
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Hi Stan,
Welcome to the slider world. One thing I would like to add to the excellent advice you have already received is the advantage of the outrigger. I am not sure if one can be added to a machine with 1550 mm slider.
I bought KF700 with 2000 mm slider in 2002 not really understanding the benefit of the outrigger. I thought a wagon, that is no longer available, would be sufficient. Without outrigger you are stuck with the short xcut fence. This particular setup has gotten worse since the introduction of XRoll (mine is pre Xroll). The 90 deg registration of the short Xcut fence is suspect on the XRoll. Even if you are lucky to not have this issue, the ability to dial in the long xcut fence perfectly, on the outrigger, is way better than the short xcut fence. I would say they are not even in the same league. Same goes for setting for the angled cuts. The outrigger also opens options for angle setting with pin locating or even better with the length compensation option.
When considering outriggers 1500 is much better than 1300. The big advantage, IMHO, again is how the 90 deg registration is set.
Just my $0.02
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On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:19?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote: ? I agree with David and Lucky regarding the table length. I have never used the full 10-ft length of my slider, but I have come close enough that I do not regret it.?
Note that the outrigger takes space, as do clamps at the tail end. I usually have unused accessories stored near the tail end of the slider too.?
I work primarily with solids, and am a hobbyist also. I used a Unisaw for over 30 years before transitioning to a slider. The transition to a slider was challenging at times, but I am glad I did it.?
One of the very few subjects I disagree with Lucky about is ripping with the fence on a slider. After all of those years with a Unisaw I am accustomed to standing exactly where the slider is. Reaching over the slider, or standing to the right of the fence, just feels terribly awkward.?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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I think twice before disagreeing with you, sir!
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I am probably 12 cm shorter than you, and that may affect our different comfort level. The other factor is simple muscle memory - my body is screaming “no!” when I reach over the slider.?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Excellent advice Imran! I just assume getting a slider includes getting an outrigger. Thanks for bringing this into the discussion.
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And John, all good. We should ignore our muscle memory at our peril! Plus, I think my propensity for conventional ripping is in the minority, so you’re in good company. Take care mate (as we say here in Oz).
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Warm regards,
Lucky
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Dr David Luckensmeyer
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
?
Welcome to the slider world. One thing I would like to add to the excellent advice you have already received is the advantage of the outrigger. I am not sure if one can be added to a machine with 1550 mm slider.
I bought KF700 with 2000 mm slider in 2002 not really understanding the benefit of the outrigger. I thought a wagon, that is no longer available, would be sufficient. Without outrigger you are stuck with the
short xcut fence. This particular setup has gotten worse since the introduction of XRoll (mine is pre Xroll). The 90 deg registration of the short Xcut fence is suspect on the XRoll. Even if you are lucky to not have this issue, the ability to dial in the
long xcut fence perfectly, on the outrigger, is way better than the short xcut fence. I would say they are not even in the same league. Same goes for setting for the angled cuts. The outrigger also opens options for angle setting with pin locating or even
better with the length compensation option.
When considering outriggers 1500 is much better than 1300. The big advantage, IMHO, again is how the 90 deg registration is set.
On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:19?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
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I agree with David and Lucky regarding the table length. I have never used the full 10-ft length of my slider, but I have come close enough that I do not regret it.?
Note that the outrigger takes space, as do clamps at the tail end. I usually have unused accessories stored near the tail end of the slider too.?
I work primarily with solids, and am a hobbyist also. I used a Unisaw for over 30 years before transitioning to a slider. The transition to a slider was challenging at times, but
I am glad I did it.?
One of the very few subjects I disagree with Lucky about is ripping with the fence on a slider. After all of those years with a Unisaw I am accustomed to standing exactly where the slider is. Reaching over
the slider, or standing to the right of the fence, just feels terribly awkward.?
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Hello Stan,
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A few words about my experience as a hobbyist with a slider. I work in a single car garage (14x20 feet) and used a 3hp cabinet saw for a few decades before jumping into the ? slider pool ? at the end of 2021. From my perspective, once you start using a slider, and take the time to develop a few new ? behaviours ?, there is no turning back to a cabinet saw.
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My machine is a Hammer B3 with a 2000mm slider. My projects are probably 85/15% solid wood / panel material. I rarely have to perform long ripping operations (e.g. 8 feet) and on the few occasions I had to do it, I concocted a home-made platen that allowed me to carry out the task. Definitely not as easy or handy as the machines that David, David and John (that sounds like an interesting name for a partnership ?) operate, but this is the configuration that worked best for me, given space and budget.
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You mention your interest for a combination saw/shaper; this was my approach, along with a Hammer A3-31 jointer/planer combination. Again, the decision stemmed from the parameters I had to work with. I am totally happy with my choice, even though I am still learning everytime I spend time in the shop.
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The shaper was entirely uncharted territory for me and I am glad I went with the combination machine. One aspect you may wish to consider in your analysis is the ? physical effort ? difference between the Hammer and Felder series. My grey hair and painful hands and shoulders are a testament to the fact that I am happy the shaper guard on my Hammer machine is lighter than those on the Felder units. This may luckily not be an issue for you.
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As for ripping, this is a good example of the learning curve, but not the end of the world. Rather a matter of doing things differently. Right from the get go I decided to get a power feeder (DC-40) and a smile appears on my face everytime I use it. One change I made a few months ago was to replace the original horizontal tube (27 inches) with the longer one (42 inches). This allows me to position the feeder above the sawblade and act as safety guarding with conducting ripping operations with the feeder. This obviously takes some set up time, but the hourly rate I charge to myself is extremely low. ?
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One last thing: contrary to what you may have seen, heard or read, sliders are great for working with solid wood and even more so for handling small pieces (with the help of a Fritz und Franz jig) in a safe and precise way that is next to impossible to easily replicate on a cabinet saw.?
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Please forgive me for the long text; it likely reflects the pleasure I derive from my time in the shop. And, as somebody once said, I could have written a shorter text but it would have taken me a much longer time.
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Regards,
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Jacques?
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PS: Apologies if some of my input is covered in other posts that were done while I was writing.
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Imran,
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Thanks for mentioning the outrigger. I know that it is possible to use the outrigger on the Hammer machines with carriages 48 inches and up. Not sure about the shortest slider.
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Jacques
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Hello Stan,
You got some excellent feedback so far, I'll add few additional points to consider.
I am on the opposite side of Lucky, I am only 165cm[ 5'5"] and I find using the rip fence as a cabinet saw really cumbersome.
I used to own the Hammer K3, which is similar to the K500, with this saw, the on/off buttons are on the main body of the saw. Reaching out to turn on the saw got me uncomfortably close to a spinning blade when I was standing on the left side the slider. With the K700s, the buttons are on the left side of the saw, make it safer and easy. I also have on/off buttons on the slider itself, which is really nice when working with sheet goods.. The F&F jig is one of the most used jigs I have. I used it a lot to cut/rip small parts on the left side of the slider.
Take into consideration that not all of the slider is accessible, the outrgigger and clamps [another recommendation - mac Clamps] take up space. You can build jigs to overcome this problem or to rip on the right side, but it has it's downsides. I recently built a queen size bed, and ripping a 270cm [~9'] boards on the slider is stress free compare to trying to push it on rip fence.
The DROs on the x-cut fence and rip fence is nice addition.
I also have a slider in a 2-car garage and I am able to fit 3.2m slider, stand alone shaper, large bandsaw and 20" J/P. So it is possible to fit bigger machines than you initially think. It might need some adjustments, or removing the outrigger fence to gain some space back, but it is defensively doable.
If you can guide us on what exactly you are doing or building, we might be able to give some additional tips.
You mentioned that you would like to operate a Shaper. I just took last week the Alpine workshop. Joe is an excellent instructor and across the 4 workshop days, he demonstrates how to safely work with this tool and how versatile it is. It is highly recommend if you can take it. For the shaper - IMHO -? A power feeder is a must.
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I also owned several cabinet saws over a period of about 19 years until I finally got a slider.?? Like you, I was considering a short-stroke 6-1/2' sliding table (2050mm).?? I was talked out of that by this forum and ended up getting a 9 foot table (2800mm).? I am extremely glad I went that direction.?? Essentially, the general recommendation here is to get the longest slider you can fit in your shop (with anything over 10 feet being an exception).? I can easily rip an 8 foot plywood board (and have on several occasions).? Yes, you can rip on the right side of the blade, but the straight-line rip method that David has documented is inherently? more accurate.
?
On my most recent project, I had to rip and crosscut some 2-1/4" butcher block.? I just published videos of those cuts here:
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I am also using the 1500 outrigger that Imram mentioned.? The initial piece was 36" x 72" and I calculated the weight to be 148 lbs!? It was a challenge getting the piece up onto the slider, even with a FAT lift table!? I suppose I could have done this on a 6-1/2 foot slider, it would have not left room for clamps.? The longer sliding tables require a machine with a larger base (the Felder "S" models).?? This gives you much more stability when dealing with heavy and long materials.? While I could have --THEORETICALLY-- ripped this on a cabinet saw, it would be extremely difficult and the accuracy of the cut would suffer due to weight and shifting around while you ran it through the blade.? Accurate cross-cutting of this material would be absolutely impossible!? I guess my point here is that having a larger capacity machine can open up new types of possible projects.?? There has been stuff I have done on this slider that I would have never consider if I only had a cabinet saw (or even a smaller slider!).
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As a hobbiest, I have never felt that I missed out on not getting a digital-read-out for blade angle/height and the rip fence.? The analog dial for blade angle works just fine.? Blade height is easy to measure with an iGaging height gauge (or similar) because you'll end up with different size blades anyway (especially when you have to switch to DADO cutter).? The stock rip fence is accurate enough (unless your splitting hairs at a .2mm difference).
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That being said, the stock Felder flip-stop on the crosscut fence is a bad design which results in inaccurate cuts (based on a raised red-line sight gauge).?? A DRO on the crosscut fence is pretty much mandatory in my opinion for any sort of accurate work.? I like the 700 series fence better and Lamb Toolworks supplies an aftermarket DRO (unless you order the Felder DRO with the saw).?? If you decide on the 500 series (which is a smaller/shorter fence), Proscale now has a kit made for that machine:
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As far as shaper goes, there is going to be some difficulty/hassle when doing the switchover between saw and shaper operations.? I was considering adding a shaper to my setup, but ended up doing a router table as a saw outfeed instead.?? For me, it's really easy to put on a router fence and change bits (and then take it off and have the saw immediately usable again).? The shaper is going to be more involved for setup.?? I have also heard that you'll invest $$$$ in tooling afterwords, so the initial cost of the shaper is not your complete "spend".? It really depends if you think the return on investment is there.?? If you're doing stuff like huge doors and large moldings, I can see the benefit of a shaper.? I think other people here should comment more on this.
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-Aaron Inami
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Oh, one more comment.?? While some may put a high value on scoring blade, it really depends on what you work on.?? In my cabinet saw days, I commonly got pretty bad tear-out on various types of plywood.? Some plywood would be absolutely unusable while others came out okay.? You then have to make sure your out-side facing surface is on top when you cut without a scoring blade.? On some of my projects, both sides of the plywood were visible on the final product, so I needed an absolutely perfect cut on bottom-and-top.?? That is where a scoring blade brings its value.
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-Aaron Inami
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Could also be age. ?I’m not as nimble as I was at Lucky’s age, and I’m considerably shorter at just 6-feed, but I still rip with ease when standing to the left of the saw blade (outrigger side of the slider). ?(Hint: don’t disagree with Lucky. ?LOL). ? Granted, if I were cutting up 1,000 linear feet of oak flooring, I might prefer to stand on the right side of the slider. ?But I don’t believe I have EVER felt that need. ?So this notion of “where do I stand - OMG?” is, IMO, a bit of a red herring, and certainly an issue of personal preference. ?I wouldn’t let this particular conspiracy theory about sliding table saws dissuade or impact your decision ?- unless of course you’re making T&G flooring for a living. ?:-)?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 24, 2025, at 7:59?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
All good John; but you dare disagree with me!!?? ? I wonder whether part of it might be relative heights? But maybe not. I’m kind of long in the arm and stand 188cm so after some weeks of exposure to the slider, it seemed kind of easy for me to reach across and perform a conventional rip. However, you might be the same height or taller but still find it ‘terribly awkward’. All good! ? Warm regards, Lucky ? Dr David Luckensmeyer Designer & Maker @luckensmeyer M: 0413 013 115 ? I agree with David and Lucky regarding the table length. I have never used the full 10-ft length of my slider, but I have come close enough that I do not regret it.? Note that the outrigger takes space, as do clamps at the tail end. I usually have unused accessories stored near the tail end of the slider too.? I work primarily with solids, and am a hobbyist also. I used a Unisaw for over 30 years before transitioning to a slider. The transition to a slider was challenging at times, but I am glad I did it.? One of the very few subjects I disagree with Lucky about is ripping with the fence on a slider. After all of those years with a Unisaw I am accustomed to standing exactly where the slider is. Reaching over the slider, or standing to the right of the fence, just feels terribly awkward.? John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Stan, I agree with Imran. The outrigger is valuable in many respects, but for one reason, the alternative short crosscut fence option (at least on the KF500 and KF700 X-Roll implementations), does not consistently register 90° square when putting it on the machine or after changing angles. ?That’s been discussed here many times. ?An outrigger is extremely valuable even if just building chairs. ? I’m currently working on a cherry cabinet as part of my??and just this evening cut the miters for the cabinet corner joints. ?The cabinet side panels are 1600 mm long, and I wouldn’t relish the idea of doing this without an outrigger - and clamps.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 24, 2025, at 8:08?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
Excellent advice Imran! I just assume getting a slider includes getting an outrigger. Thanks for bringing this into the discussion. ? And John, all good. We should ignore our muscle memory at our peril! Plus, I think my propensity for conventional ripping is in the minority, so you’re in good company. Take care mate (as we say here in Oz). ?
Warm regards, Lucky ? Dr David Luckensmeyer Designer & Maker @luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115 ?
Welcome to the slider world. One thing I would like to add to the excellent advice you have already received is the advantage of the outrigger. I am not sure if one can be added to a machine with 1550 mm slider.
I bought KF700 with 2000 mm slider in 2002 not really understanding the benefit of the outrigger. I thought a wagon, that is no longer available, would be sufficient. Without outrigger you are stuck with the
short xcut fence. This particular setup has gotten worse since the introduction of XRoll (mine is pre Xroll). The 90 deg registration of the short Xcut fence is suspect on the XRoll. Even if you are lucky to not have this issue, the ability to dial in the
long xcut fence perfectly, on the outrigger, is way better than the short xcut fence. I would say they are not even in the same league. Same goes for setting for the angled cuts. The outrigger also opens options for angle setting with pin locating or even
better with the length compensation option.
When considering outriggers 1500 is much better than 1300. The big advantage, IMHO, again is how the 90 deg registration is set.
On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:19?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
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I agree with David and Lucky regarding the table length. I have never used the full 10-ft length of my slider, but I have come close enough that I do not regret it.?
Note that the outrigger takes space, as do clamps at the tail end. I usually have unused accessories stored near the tail end of the slider too.?
I work primarily with solids, and am a hobbyist also. I used a Unisaw for over 30 years before transitioning to a slider. The transition to a slider was challenging at times, but
I am glad I did it.?
One of the very few subjects I disagree with Lucky about is ripping with the fence on a slider. After all of those years with a Unisaw I am accustomed to standing exactly where the slider is. Reaching over
the slider, or standing to the right of the fence, just feels terribly awkward.?
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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David - if my math is correct, the delta between you and David is just 5cm, I am not sure if less than 2” is consider significantly :)
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At Alpine last week, I asked Joe why he drilled a hole in his bowmoulder. He told me to come and look at the deadbolt fence from the top. I responded with - I need a stool :/
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any way - Lucky is right?
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Hi Netanel:
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Da Best and I may only have a few centimetres of height difference, but you may not have factored in my “long arms” comment: Monkey length!
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Loved your comment about needing a stool to see Joe’s bowmould from the top. Now Joe is TALL!
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Warm regards,
Lucky
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Dr David Luckensmeyer
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
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David - if my math is correct, the delta between you and David is just 5cm, I am not sure if less than 2” is consider significantly :)
At Alpine last week, I asked Joe why he drilled a hole in his bowmoulder. He told me to come and look at the deadbolt fence from the top. I responded with - I need a stool :/
any way - Lucky is right?
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Netanel,?
Keep in mind that some civilizations focus on length, some on accuracy. ?Lucky is from Australia where everything is super-sized. ?But when doing tongue-and-groove operations,, according to my GF, a tenth of a millimeter often matters more than being off 5cm - point-of-view and situation dependent of course. ?LOL. ?I can confirm that Lucky has long arms. ? But I think the difference is more than 5cm height. ?As for me, the hollow leg with extension arm helps straddle the slider and the snooker table.
Sorry Lucky, I couldn’t resist. ? And John H.? ?We have yet to see your personna in situ. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 24, 2025, at 10:53?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
David - if my math is correct, the delta between you and David is just 5cm, I am not sure if less than 2” is consider significantly :)
?
At Alpine last week, I asked Joe why he drilled a hole in his bowmoulder. He told me to come and look at the deadbolt fence from the top. I responded with - I need a stool :/
?
any way - Lucky is right?
?
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David and David.
???
(I am done hijacking this thread)
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Stan,
Not sure where you are located but I just shared this on my FB group. A used machine can stretch one’s funds a long way. This one is in Texas. After seeing the building quality of my 2002 KF the rest of my Felders were bought used.
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David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer
imran