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?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
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TB III is the only PVA glue in my shop. I just don't see the need for the other types. I do have Rapid Fuze wood glue as well but TB III is used more.
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Yes date the container! Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 7:38 AM, David <david.hawxhurst@...> wrote:
?TB III is the only PVA glue in my shop. I just don't see the need for the other types. I do have Rapid Fuze wood glue as well but TB III is used more.
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I was going to switch to t3 because I thought it produced a harder glue line (higher solids) which is preferable for commercial veneer, even though I have not had issues with t2 for 25ish years. These are the glues that i just happen to have on hand.
I did a little non scientific experiment and found that?
t2 is super soft/ pliable (no surprise) ?48% solids 10-15 min open
T3 is much more stiff but still bendy 52% solids 20-25 min open T2 extend little bit bendy but snaps 49% solids 20-25 min open
So looks like my search for one glue does it all is over. Regular ol’ titebond is more than adequate for indoor furniture but would like more open time so will probably go with t3 for the open time and i think the color blends better with most woods, one thing I don’t like is that its runny.
For commercial veneer probably stick with t2 extend until its gone then maybe try some of the so called specially formulated PVA’s for veneer like unibond1. For shop sawn idk, I did a bit in the past but only when there was a frame surrounding the panel so I don’t know if they creeped, the joints never opened as far as I know. I don’t really want to use a urea or epoxy.?
Also probably obvious but definitely need to mix pva if it sits for awhile (not sure how long). I wasn’t thinking and just grabbed the t3 and t2 extend and the first ones i poured behaved differently, the t2 extend didn’t break at all which i thought was weird so i shook them and re-did it.
Here’s a pic and a vid…
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 8:15 AM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
|
Titebond hide glue. Unless you need water resistance, its my favorite. It doesn’t slide, really nice open time and reversible.
Bill B
Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
|
Guys, I use a bunch of different glues for different purposes. T2 is my general go to glue for interior stuff unless I want a darker glue line. Then I use T3 (for exterior as well). Both remain too flexible for any real veneer work. For almost 15 hrs I have been using Veneer Systems’ PPR urea glue?
Water mix, tintable for lighter colored veneers, super easy to work, good open time, and ROCK HARD when cured. Zero spring back. Machines well (no gumming up router or shaper cutters). Also has a long shelf life.?
We make this table with 16 resawn ?1/8” walnut plies. One vacuum-bagged glue-up and zero spring back.?
To speed up cure times we use cheap electric blankets covered with foil-bubble-foil insulation sheets.?
Best,
Fred Rossi
I was going to switch to t3 because I thought it produced a harder glue line (higher solids) which is preferable for commercial veneer, even though I have not had issues with t2 for 25ish years. These are the glues that i just happen to have on hand.
I did a little non scientific experiment and found that?
t2 is super soft/ pliable (no surprise) ?48% solids 10-15 min open
T3 is much more stiff but still bendy 52% solids 20-25 min open T2 extend little bit bendy but snaps 49% solids 20-25 min open
So looks like my search for one glue does it all is over. Regular ol’ titebond is more than adequate for indoor furniture but would like more open time so will probably go with t3 for the open time and i think the color blends better with most woods, one thing I don’t like is that its runny.
For commercial veneer probably stick with t2 extend until its gone then maybe try some of the so called specially formulated PVA’s for veneer like unibond1. For shop sawn idk, I did a bit in the past but only when there was a frame surrounding the panel so I don’t know if they creeped, the joints never opened as far as I know. I don’t really want to use a urea or epoxy.?
Also probably obvious but definitely need to mix pva if it sits for awhile (not sure how long). I wasn’t thinking and just grabbed the t3 and t2 extend and the first ones i poured behaved differently, the t2 extend didn’t break at all which i thought was weird so i shook them and re-did it.
Here’s a pic and a vid…
?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
Forgot to mention when I worked in the veneer dept. at Wall Goldfinger I believe we only used T2, we certainly never mixed glue and these were on boardroom tables 100k-200k and up in places like NYSE, Sprint (which actually went in the dumpster after 2 yrs because the new CEO’s wife didn’t like it) P&G which I was to project manager for, that one was a 40’ Horseshoe $230k and that was 20yrs ago.
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 9:33 AM, Fred Rossi <fred@...> wrote:
? Guys, I use a bunch of different glues for different purposes. T2 is my general go to glue for interior stuff unless I want a darker glue line. Then I use T3 (for exterior as well). Both remain too flexible for any real veneer work. For almost 15 hrs I have been using Veneer Systems’ PPR urea glue?
Water mix, tintable for lighter colored veneers, super easy to work, good open time, and ROCK HARD when cured. Zero spring back. Machines well (no gumming up router or shaper cutters). Also has a long shelf life.?
We make this table with 16 resawn ?1/8” walnut plies. One vacuum-bagged glue-up and zero spring back.?
To speed up cure times we use cheap electric blankets covered with foil-bubble-foil insulation sheets.?
Best,
Fred Rossi I was going to switch to t3 because I thought it produced a harder glue line (higher solids) which is preferable for commercial veneer, even though I have not had issues with t2 for 25ish years. These are the glues that i just happen to have on hand.
I did a little non scientific experiment and found that?
t2 is super soft/ pliable (no surprise) ?48% solids 10-15 min open
T3 is much more stiff but still bendy 52% solids 20-25 min open T2 extend little bit bendy but snaps 49% solids 20-25 min open
So looks like my search for one glue does it all is over. Regular ol’ titebond is more than adequate for indoor furniture but would like more open time so will probably go with t3 for the open time and i think the color blends better with most woods, one thing I don’t like is that its runny.
For commercial veneer probably stick with t2 extend until its gone then maybe try some of the so called specially formulated PVA’s for veneer like unibond1. For shop sawn idk, I did a bit in the past but only when there was a frame surrounding the panel so I don’t know if they creeped, the joints never opened as far as I know. I don’t really want to use a urea or epoxy.?
Also probably obvious but definitely need to mix pva if it sits for awhile (not sure how long). I wasn’t thinking and just grabbed the t3 and t2 extend and the first ones i poured behaved differently, the t2 extend didn’t break at all which i thought was weird so i shook them and re-did it.
Here’s a pic and a vid…
?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 06:33 AM, Fred Rossi wrote:
PPR urea glue?
Fred, ??? ????? I will agree with you on veneer glues. I've never liked any of the Tightbond glues for veneer work. The worst glue I've ever tried for veneer work was Tightbond Cold Press Glue. I do use Tightbond II for indoor general woodworking however. I use epoxy or Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue for exterior woodworking. I would not use Tightbond III for outside work. Do you know what the self life of Veneer Systems PPR is?? Weldwood Plastic Resin has a one year shelf life and it can be a problem finding fresh stock. Weldwood Plastic Resin works well for veneer work also, but it's pretty dark in color so best with reddish dark woods.? Tom Ruth
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I was burned really badly by the TB cold press glue. Will never use it again. I buy the large tubs of the PPR and it takes me about a year to finish one. I’ve never had a problem with shelf life. They sell a white tint powder to lighten it up if you are using light colored veneers.?
We often use white ash veneers?
and tint the glue.?
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 06:33 AM, Fred Rossi wrote:
PPR urea glue?
Fred,
???
????? I will agree with you on veneer glues. I've never liked any of the Tightbond glues for veneer work. The worst glue I've ever tried for veneer work was Tightbond Cold Press Glue. I do use Tightbond II for indoor general woodworking however. I use epoxy or Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue for exterior woodworking. I would not use Tightbond III for outside work. Do you know what the self life of Veneer Systems PPR is?? Weldwood Plastic Resin has a one year shelf life and it can be a problem finding fresh stock. Weldwood Plastic Resin works well for veneer work also, but it's pretty dark in color so best with reddish dark woods.? Tom Ruth
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
The go to veneer glue in our shop for flat work is Unibond 1. We used to use the Titebond Cold Press veneer glue but the solids settle out of it and are difficult to mix back up. The Unibond 1 does not suffer from that problem. For any large and or curved work, it's Unibond 800. No creeping with that stuff and you've got all the time in the world to get it rolled?out?and in the press right. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Jason, have you used unibond 1 for shop sawn? Hows the bleed through on commercial veneer like a white oak, crotch ect?
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 10:41 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? The go to veneer glue in our shop for flat work is Unibond 1. We used to use the Titebond Cold Press veneer glue but the solids settle out of it and are difficult to mix back up. The Unibond 1 does not suffer from that problem. For any large and or curved work, it's Unibond 800. No creeping with that stuff and you've got all the time in the world to get it rolled?out?and in the press right. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Jason, Interesting comment on the Unibond.? I’ve been talking to Darryl about my upcoming curved lamination project and am going with his gear (and GLUE!? The 800). ?
WRT Titebond.? For cabinet work (indeed any mortise/tenon type or edge applications for interior projects) I prefer TB2 but materially the 32 oz container.? Great form factor for me and about the right turnover wrt time.? That it’s TB vs other brands.? I don’t know how much it really matters (to me).? I’ve used the LeeValley stuff and never had a callback.? Among the things I overthink, PVA type wood glue isn’t one of them.? TB3 or epoxy for exterior work depending.? I end up buying it by the gallon as I prefer to use a tray for exterior glue ups (tend to be larger and I like to dip/brush dominos.? FWIW, the TB2 vs TB1 , for cabinet assembly, as I work pretty fast so open time isn’t a problem.
For trim, either drip less TB or CA.? Depends on the application, I keep and use both all the time.
Happy Friday all.
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 7:41 AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: The go to veneer glue in our shop for flat work is Unibond 1. We used to use the Titebond Cold Press veneer glue but the solids settle out of it and are difficult to mix back up. The Unibond 1 does not suffer from that problem. For any large and or curved work, it's Unibond 800. No creeping with that stuff and you've got all the time in the world to get it rolled?out?and in the press right. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Thank you all for the feedback. I am looking for general glue for edge gluing. I intend to get into laminating and veneering soon. Read about TB3 not good for veneering on WoodWeb many yrs ago. IIRC, it does not handle sun exposure well.
I got private feedback to look into Kleiberit 303. Sounds interesting, waiting on info on that.
Imran
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 10:41 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote: ? The go to veneer glue in our shop for flat work is Unibond 1. We used to use the Titebond Cold Press veneer glue but the solids settle out of it and are difficult to mix back up. The Unibond 1 does not suffer from that problem. For any large and or curved work, it's Unibond 800. No creeping with that stuff and you've got all the time in the world to get it rolled?out?and in the press right. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
I like the table… well done!
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Fred Rossi < fred@...> wrote:
Guys, I use a bunch of different glues for different purposes. T2 is my general go to glue for interior stuff unless I want a darker glue line. Then I use T3 (for exterior as well). Both remain too flexible for any real veneer work. For almost 15 hrs I have been using Veneer Systems’ PPR urea glue?
Water mix, tintable for lighter colored veneers, super easy to work, good open time, and ROCK HARD when cured. Zero spring back. Machines well (no gumming up router or shaper cutters). Also has a long shelf life.?
We make this table with 16 resawn ?1/8” walnut plies. One vacuum-bagged glue-up and zero spring back.?
To speed up cure times we use cheap electric blankets covered with foil-bubble-foil insulation sheets.?
Best,
Fred Rossi I was going to switch to t3 because I thought it produced a harder glue line (higher solids) which is preferable for commercial veneer, even though I have not had issues with t2 for 25ish years. These are the glues that i just happen to have on hand.
I did a little non scientific experiment and found that?
t2 is super soft/ pliable (no surprise) ?48% solids 10-15 min open
T3 is much more stiff but still bendy 52% solids 20-25 min open T2 extend little bit bendy but snaps 49% solids 20-25 min open
So looks like my search for one glue does it all is over. Regular ol’ titebond is more than adequate for indoor furniture but would like more open time so will probably go with t3 for the open time and i think the color blends better with most woods, one thing I don’t like is that its runny.
For commercial veneer probably stick with t2 extend until its gone then maybe try some of the so called specially formulated PVA’s for veneer like unibond1. For shop sawn idk, I did a bit in the past but only when there was a frame surrounding the panel so I don’t know if they creeped, the joints never opened as far as I know. I don’t really want to use a urea or epoxy.?
Also probably obvious but definitely need to mix pva if it sits for awhile (not sure how long). I wasn’t thinking and just grabbed the t3 and t2 extend and the first ones i poured behaved differently, the t2 extend didn’t break at all which i thought was weird so i shook them and re-did it.
Here’s a pic and a vid…
?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
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On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 10:58 AM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: I like the table… well done!
On Feb 11, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Fred Rossi < fred@...> wrote:
Guys, I use a bunch of different glues for different purposes. T2 is my general go to glue for interior stuff unless I want a darker glue line. Then I use T3 (for exterior as well). Both remain too flexible for any real veneer work. For almost 15 hrs I have been using Veneer Systems’ PPR urea glue?
Water mix, tintable for lighter colored veneers, super easy to work, good open time, and ROCK HARD when cured. Zero spring back. Machines well (no gumming up router or shaper cutters). Also has a long shelf life.?
We make this table with 16 resawn ?1/8” walnut plies. One vacuum-bagged glue-up and zero spring back.?
To speed up cure times we use cheap electric blankets covered with foil-bubble-foil insulation sheets.?
Best,
Fred Rossi I was going to switch to t3 because I thought it produced a harder glue line (higher solids) which is preferable for commercial veneer, even though I have not had issues with t2 for 25ish years. These are the glues that i just happen to have on hand.
I did a little non scientific experiment and found that?
t2 is super soft/ pliable (no surprise) ?48% solids 10-15 min open
T3 is much more stiff but still bendy 52% solids 20-25 min open T2 extend little bit bendy but snaps 49% solids 20-25 min open
So looks like my search for one glue does it all is over. Regular ol’ titebond is more than adequate for indoor furniture but would like more open time so will probably go with t3 for the open time and i think the color blends better with most woods, one thing I don’t like is that its runny.
For commercial veneer probably stick with t2 extend until its gone then maybe try some of the so called specially formulated PVA’s for veneer like unibond1. For shop sawn idk, I did a bit in the past but only when there was a frame surrounding the panel so I don’t know if they creeped, the joints never opened as far as I know. I don’t really want to use a urea or epoxy.?
Also probably obvious but definitely need to mix pva if it sits for awhile (not sure how long). I wasn’t thinking and just grabbed the t3 and t2 extend and the first ones i poured behaved differently, the t2 extend didn’t break at all which i thought was weird so i shook them and re-did it.
Here’s a pic and a vid…
?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
-- _____________________
Fred Rossi 617.905.6497
|
Yes I use it on shop sawn veneers also. I get almost no bleed through on most commercial veneers. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Thanks Jason, thats what i will be using for my veneer work from now on..
Don’t know why though, I did say that I never had issues with the t2…?
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 11:20 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Yes I use it on shop sawn veneers also. I get almost no bleed through on most commercial veneers. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
For everyday glue I use Titebond 50
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When I took a 2 semester veneering class, we started with the Titebond Cold Press stuff (because it was gifted to the school to try).? After several weeks of delaminations throughout the class, we stopped using it.?
A curved lamination (vanity below)? for personal use in that class was done with (in date) plastic resin glue (Weldwood), which was in date.? It took every bit of a 1 pound container to do that project.? It is the first bent lamination I ever did.
I've subsequently done a serpentine chest (photo is the original at Winterthur) using Unibond 800 and two years later, nothing has moved or delaminated.? The chest was done in a class of 3?+ a personal one for the instructor, so 4 x 4 = 16 drawer fronts.? That left plenty of time to roll glue, sandwich laminations, and get everything on the form and in the bag for bending under vacuum.? Unibond 800 has become my go-to.? Jeff
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 10:54 AM Mike S < Mike@...> wrote: Jason, Interesting comment on the Unibond.? I’ve been talking to Darryl about my upcoming curved lamination project and am going with his gear (and GLUE!? The 800). ?
WRT Titebond.? For cabinet work (indeed any mortise/tenon type or edge applications for interior projects) I prefer TB2 but materially the 32 oz container.? Great form factor for me and about the right turnover wrt time.? That it’s TB vs other brands.? I don’t know how much it really matters (to me).? I’ve used the LeeValley stuff and never had a callback.? Among the things I overthink, PVA type wood glue isn’t one of them.? TB3 or epoxy for exterior work depending.? I end up buying it by the gallon as I prefer to use a tray for exterior glue ups (tend to be larger and I like to dip/brush dominos.? FWIW, the TB2 vs TB1 , for cabinet assembly, as I work pretty fast so open time isn’t a problem.
For trim, either drip less TB or CA.? Depends on the application, I keep and use both all the time.
Happy Friday all. On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 7:41 AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: The go to veneer glue in our shop for flat work is Unibond 1. We used to use the Titebond Cold Press veneer glue but the solids settle out of it and are difficult to mix back up. The Unibond 1 does not suffer from that problem. For any large and or curved work, it's Unibond 800. No creeping with that stuff and you've got all the time in the world to get it rolled?out?and in the press right. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
titebond does have an "extended time" glue that I've used and like.
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On 2/11/22 8:15 AM, imranindiana wrote: ?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
|
imran
David
Bill Belanger
Fred Rossi
Jason Holtz
Albert Lee
Jeff
