|
All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
 This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
 HTH.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 1, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Terence via groups.io <terencewoolston@...> wrote: ?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>HTH. ?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 1, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Terence via groups.io <terencewoolston@...> wrote: ? Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>HTH. ?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes? ? Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>HTH. ?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Imran: ?My bad, the 5T1 does not show a 208V but the wiring diagram does show a 208V tap (the sequence is 400V, 230V 208 V) ?the wiring diagrams are Greek to me. ?Terry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes? ?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>HTH. ?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
The code is flashed by a LED. Short pause when counting long pause end of digit.
If the issue is low secondary voltages then the solution would be to change transformer. You are within +/-10% input voltage spec, so Felder should make it run on 208VAC.
I know this does not help your project situation.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Terence via groups.io <terencewoolston@...> wrote: ? Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes? ? Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>HTH. ?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote: ?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
I had the same problem when I moved from Virginia (240 supply) to California industrial park (208 supply). ?The solution was a buck/boost transformer between the panel and the Phase Perfect. ?Phase Perfect actually sold me the transformer - about $100 in 2005.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg. On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote: ?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
David: ?Thanks for the tip, I called PP and they will not supply but agreed with the fix in concept. ?Will source one here locally. ?Terry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I had the same problem when I moved from Virginia (240 supply) to California industrial park (208 supply). ?The solution was a buck/boost transformer between the panel and the Phase Perfect. ?Phase Perfect actually sold me the transformer - about $100 in 2005.
All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
fwiw, 208v is not "low voltage" in the sense of some defect.? ? It's just a different electrical distribution system.? It's very common in certain industries, for example, IT data centers.
As David says, you need a transformer to boost to 240v.? ?Generally speaking, systems designed for 240v cannot run on 208v.
|
All and especially Dave Kumm: ?
Thanks for the input. ?I checked the PP documentation and determined the manufactured leg, traced it, swapped wires to keep the T3 from the machine controls (trial & error there)…and voila…operational. ?Now I can return the brake board that Felder said that I needed and most importantly, get busy making lots of furniture pieces.
Thanks, Terry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg. On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote: ?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Terrence,
Glad you are up and running. Since we really want to learn from each other I am not exactly sure what was your issue.
One possibility is that the input to the PP was incorrect as described in the PP manual and when you swapped wires it fixed it. Although, in this scenario PP would be shutting down, not the Felder.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 1, 2022, at 9:18 PM, Terence via groups.io <terencewoolston@...> wrote: ?
All and especially Dave Kumm: ?
Thanks for the input. ?I checked the PP documentation and determined the manufactured leg, traced it, swapped wires to keep the T3 from the machine controls (trial & error there)…and voila…operational. ?Now I can return the brake board that Felder said that I needed and most importantly, get busy making lots of furniture pieces.
Thanks, Terry
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg. On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote: ?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Now that the machine is up and running, I'd check the voltages between the three legs and see what you have ( T1-T2, T2-T3, T1-T3 ) .? Compare to what is on the motor plate to see if you are within 10% .? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
All and especially Dave Kumm: ?
Thanks for the input. ?I checked the PP documentation and determined the manufactured leg, traced it, swapped wires to keep the T3 from the machine controls (trial & error there)…and voila…operational. ?Now I can return the brake board that Felder
said that I needed and most importantly, get busy making lots of furniture pieces.
Thanks, Terry
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg.
On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Dave’s approach never worked for me - even by switching the 24V transformer tap inside the machines to boost the output to the control circuits and moving the PP manufactured leg around. ?I’m glad you got it working, but 17 years ago I went down this path, same analysis that Dave laid out, and got nowhere. ?Buck/Boost transformer cleared everything up.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
All and especially Dave Kumm: ?
Thanks for the input. ?I checked the PP documentation and determined the manufactured leg, traced it, swapped wires to keep the T3 from the machine controls (trial & error there)…and voila…operational. ?Now I can return the brake board that Felder said that I needed and most importantly, get busy making lots of furniture pieces.
Thanks, Terry
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg. On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote: ?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
David, your reasoning is why I want the OP to check the output voltages to verify they are within spec for the machine.? Motors might run on lower voltage but they tend to get hot, especially the small frame motors used on newer machines.? The fix might well
be temporary and the need for a boost transformer could still be in the cards.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dave’s approach never worked for me - even by switching the 24V transformer tap inside the machines to boost the output to the control circuits and moving the PP manufactured leg around.
?I’m glad you got it working, but 17 years ago I went down this path, same analysis that Dave laid out, and got nowhere. ?Buck/Boost transformer cleared everything up.
All and especially Dave Kumm: ?
Thanks for the input. ?I checked the PP documentation and determined the manufactured leg, traced it, swapped wires to keep the T3 from the machine controls (trial & error there)…and voila…operational. ?Now I can return the brake board that Felder
said that I needed and most importantly, get busy making lots of furniture pieces.
Thanks, Terry
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg.
On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
It is amusing to see solutions without a clear problem statement.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 3, 2022, at 9:14 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote: ?
David, your reasoning is why I want the OP to check the output voltages to verify they are within spec for the machine.? Motors might run on lower voltage but they tend to get hot, especially the small frame motors used on newer machines.? The fix might well
be temporary and the need for a boost transformer could still be in the cards.? Dave
Dave’s approach never worked for me - even by switching the 24V transformer tap inside the machines to boost the output to the control circuits and moving the PP manufactured leg around.
?I’m glad you got it working, but 17 years ago I went down this path, same analysis that Dave laid out, and got nowhere. ?Buck/Boost transformer cleared everything up.
All and especially Dave Kumm: ?
Thanks for the input. ?I checked the PP documentation and determined the manufactured leg, traced it, swapped wires to keep the T3 from the machine controls (trial & error there)…and voila…operational. ?Now I can return the brake board that Felder
said that I needed and most importantly, get busy making lots of furniture pieces.
Thanks, Terry
Dave: ?I checked the 3 prongs at the plug, they read 120, 120, and 208…I have no idea how to move the 208 from the control circuit? ?The Dual spins the right way. ?Terry
I do not know industrial setups. It would definitely be worthwhile to measure all 3 outputs of the PP, phase to phase.
My assumption was that PP is receiving 208VAC phase to phase, if such a thing exists. If so, it should create 208VAC 3rd leg.
On Jun 1, 2022, at 4:26 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Check the output voltages on the PP.? The 208v only applies to a three phase application with three legs measuring 120v to ground vs 240 delta where the third leg measures 208v.? the two incoming legs still measure 120v to ground and the PP should manufacture
one leg at 208V that you don't want in the control circuit.? Dave
Imran: ?Year of production 2013, schematic shows 230V …no 208V tap. ?Brake board has no display window. ?Agreed on the low voltage…just no one can tell me how to re-set the machine parameters
to deal with the 208V. ?Terry
Terence,
My first guess would be that these voltages being low is the problem. Most digital circuits have low tolerance for low supply voltages.
What yr is your machine? Does your schematic show 208V tap?
Does your brake board flash any codes?
?Imran: ?The 5T1 does not have a 208V setting, only 230V with the +/-10%. ?Yes, it will start but not run. ?The secondary voltages on the right side of 5T1 are low, 20V although in the 30V slot. ?Terry
Terence,
Not sure what year is your machine but mine is from 2011. Because of some experiences, I can share some information that may be useful.
First, per the schematic the start function is built into the brake board. I have seen the brake board and it looks just the same as in my K975 (just higher current rating due to 7.53KW on dual51 vs 5.5KW on K975). I did have the brake board go
out on K975 and it would not start at all. It also blinked a 2 digit code, which I think was 55 but I am not positive. Point being it would not turn the motor, your case seems different.
Now there are 2 transformers in the machine. It would make perfect sense that on 5T1 you would need to move the L1 connection to 208V tab so all voltages shown on secondary are correct. You should be able to verify these voltages as well.
<image0.jpeg>
This is the 2T1, responsible for the 24VAC. It does not have a 208V tab. This would indicate to me that the 24VAC circuit is tolerant of 208V input.
<image2.jpeg>
HTH.
?All:
I need HELP. I moved my 7.35kw Dual 51 from a shop with 240V to a shop condo with 208V (two legs from a 3 phase utility supply to a single phase panel). ?The Dual runs on a Phase Perfect Phase converter. ?The Dual worked fine in the old shop but will not run
in the new...it starts up but when it hits full speed it shuts down.
I called Felder and they said to change the transformer tap to +10 to make up for the 208 to 230. ?This did nothing...same issue. ?Now the recommendation is to replace the brake board as this handles the task from start to run modes. ?I have no confidence in
that analysis as it worked just fine with 240V supply. ?In any case, since I am in the middle of a multi piece furniture production I absolutely must have the Dual operational. ?I ordered the brake board but want trouble shooting advice from some of the electrical
experts that know Felder and frequent the FOG.
Help!!
Best, Terry
|
Hy Imram . Could be so kind to repost those schematic with higher resolution picture . Thank you , VlAD , ROMANIA
|
imran
David P. Best
Industrial repair