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is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
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Nothing wrong with Accusize tools/cutters, not the highest quality but definitely not the worst. Mostly likely from the looks of it you snapped it off from leaning. Trying to tap 1/2-13 in steel by hand is kind of not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
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is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
Brian,
good to know about accusize. i am very fussy about keeping tap perpendicular checking with small square as i start. with a ratcheting T wrench using both hands there should not be much leaning but i can’t say i did not cause it being new to this.
Imran
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Nothing wrong with Accusize tools/cutters, not the highest quality but definitely not the worst. Mostly likely from the looks of it you snapped it off from leaning. Trying to tap 1/2-13 in steel by hand is kind of not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
Imran, it really helps to make a tap guide. ? See pages 222-223 in your Survival Guide. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Brian,
good to know about accusize. i am very fussy about keeping tap perpendicular checking with small square as i start. with a ratcheting T wrench using both hands there should not be much leaning but i can’t say i did not cause it being new to this.
Imran On Dec 13, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? Nothing wrong with Accusize tools/cutters, not the highest quality but definitely not the worst. Mostly likely from the looks of it you snapped it off from leaning. Trying to tap 1/2-13 in steel by hand is kind of not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
Thanks David. Good idea. do it commonly for holes that cannot be done in DP and need to be perfect. just did not think of doing so for tapping.
Imran
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 11:13 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran, it really helps to make a tap guide. ? See pages 222-223 in your Survival Guide. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Brian,
good to know about accusize. i am very fussy about keeping tap perpendicular checking with small square as i start. with a ratcheting T wrench using both hands there should not be much leaning but i can’t say i did not cause it being new to this.
Imran On Dec 13, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? Nothing wrong with Accusize tools/cutters, not the highest quality but definitely not the worst. Mostly likely from the looks of it you snapped it off from leaning. Trying to tap 1/2-13 in steel by hand is kind of not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
That's an obvious torque failure.? There's not a single "correct" hole size for a given thread.? The size of the hole determines the "thread engagement percentage" (100% would be the hole is the same as the the outer thread diameter).? 27/64" drill yields 75% engagement, which is too tight for your application.? 50-60% thread engagement is more appropriate for steel in a 1:1 diameter/thread depth ratio, which would be a 29/64" drill.? 75% is appropriate for softer materials, shorter lengths, and machine tool threading.? Get a copy of Machinery's Handbook.? ?Also, lube/cutting fluid has a big effect when threading, did you use plenty?
If you're making parts for the space shuttle or for a Felder tool, perfection of thread fit is or course critical, but for a lot of applications, looser tolerances will make threading easier and won't have any significant effect on the holding power.? Just the other day I thread some 1/2-13 holes in 3/8" HR steel and I use 7/16" drill and tap using a hand electric drill, and crank through in just a couple seconds per hole.
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Mark,
that is very useful information. the set came with drill for each tap. it is interesting, some time ago, i was measuring the nuts that the machine shop made and i found that they had over drilled. now it makes sense. also, did not have a clue regarding dia and depth ratio. as for fluid, i wetted all threads of the tap. any more it just drips. i am also using just 3 in 1 oil not cutting fluid. from your description it appears i need to use more.
i guess i need to educate myself a lot more.
Imran
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On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:18 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote: ?That's an obvious torque failure.? There's not a single "correct" hole size for a given thread.? The size of the hole determines the "thread engagement percentage" (100% would be the hole is the same as the the outer thread diameter).? 27/64" drill yields 75% engagement, which is too tight for your application.? 50-60% thread engagement is more appropriate for steel in a 1:1 diameter/thread depth ratio, which would be a 29/64" drill.? 75% is appropriate for softer materials, shorter lengths, and machine tool threading.? Get a copy of Machinery's Handbook.? ?Also, lube/cutting fluid has a big effect when threading, did you use plenty?
If you're making parts for the space shuttle or for a Felder tool, perfection of thread fit is or course critical, but for a lot of applications, looser tolerances will make threading easier and won't have any significant effect on the holding power.? Just the other day I thread some 1/2-13 holes in 3/8" HR steel and I use 7/16" drill and tap using a hand electric drill, and crank through in just a couple seconds per hole.
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I use a hand tap wrench mounted in a drill press.
After I drill the hole I mount the tap wrench.? It is
not powered just a guide.? Also, tapping fluid is used.
--
Jerry P
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
"You can observe a lot by watching."? Yogi Berra
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JP,
that is a great idea. i will see if i can adapt my gearwrench ratcheting handle to mount in the DP.
Imran
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On Dec 14, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Jerry P <Jerry-Pac-Man@...> wrote: ?I use a hand tap wrench mounted in a drill press.
After I drill the hole I mount the tap wrench.? It is
not powered just a guide.? Also, tapping fluid is used.
--
Jerry P
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
"You can observe a lot by watching."? Yogi Berra
|
Sorry to go off topic but I am unfamiliar with the Survival Guide. Is this only for a Felder slider or would it be worthwhile for all? Thanks.
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Imran, it really helps to make a tap guide. ? See pages 222-223 in your Survival Guide. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
|
On 12/13/20 9:56 PM, imranindiana via groups.io wrote: i am very fussy about keeping tap perpendicular checking with small square as i start Get a Tapping block
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oh? and if ya really? want to just drill a hole and tap it? Get a
free machining steel.? I like? any of the Leadloy? free machining
steels Ya can braise 'em but ya? can not weld? them and they cut
like Buttah.?
When tapped it's almost like they are self lubricating.?? you can
use 12L14.? The stuff is almost like machining Acetal plastic
On 12/13/20 7:55 PM, imranindiana via
groups.io wrote:
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Show quoted text
is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a
canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap &
drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered
HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way
in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the
drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal
knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing
defect?
i
am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just
wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am
not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
Most taps have a countersink on the end so that you can use a DP for alignment when hand tapping:  Use thread cutting fluid, not 3-in-1 oil.? It makes a big difference. Spiral taps are more expensive, but require less torque.? ? ? Chamfering the hole will ease starting. Get combo drill/taps: Then you can do it in one step on your drill press.? And if you do drill holes separately, still use the drill/tap in your hand tapper because drill part makes the tap self-aligning and you don't need to fuss with guides or eyeballing a square (obviously only applies to thru holes) ? ?
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As others have said, you need a tapping guide. I prefer a spring loaded tapping center, Fisher makes a good one: Then you need to clamp the part, drill the hole and while you are still over center, use the spring loaded tapping guid and run your tap. You want to get a two or three flute spiral point gun tap for 1/2-13 thru holes. You don’t have enough HP or arms long enough to roll tap (thread form) in 1/2-13 and then there is the whole issue of minor diameter, which when thread forming has to be spot on, like within .001”, not whatever drill size is close. It wil help a lot if you look at your thread chart and drill the next size up on the minor diameter, with that corse of a thread, at least .010 over size would be no issue. 
Last tip is to use Moly-Dee thread cutting fluid on steel, it stinks, it stains everything green, fingers included, but it will lower your torque requirements by probably close to half. In production we used to mix 510 Drawing oil, picture a thick honey consistency, with Moly-Dee and called it Gorilla Snot. The thick oil made it stick to the tap better and the moly-dee made it cut. I hate to think about how many 3/4-16 threads I cut in 347 Stainless Steel by hand when I was a kid… oh, and the tap handle had arms on it 12”-16" long on each side so you could get the leverage you needed. The tap handle below is a 16” long Starrett…. it’ll cost you unless you can find one used.
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Brian,
good to know about accusize. i am very fussy about keeping tap perpendicular checking with small square as i start. with a ratcheting T wrench using both hands there should not be much leaning but i can’t say i did not cause it being new to this.
Imran On Dec 13, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? Nothing wrong with Accusize tools/cutters, not the highest quality but definitely not the worst. Mostly likely from the looks of it you snapped it off from leaning. Trying to tap 1/2-13 in steel by hand is kind of not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
Thanks Brian. Very helpful. ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Brian Lamb Sent: Monday, December 14, 2020 10:36 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Broken Tap ? As others have said, you need a tapping guide. I prefer a spring loaded tapping center, Fisher makes a good one: Then you need to clamp the part, drill the hole and while you are still over center, use the spring loaded tapping guid and run your tap. You want to get a two or three flute spiral point gun tap for 1/2-13 thru holes. You don’t have enough HP or arms long enough to roll tap (thread form) in 1/2-13 and then there is the whole issue of minor diameter, which when thread forming has to be spot on, like within .001”, not whatever drill size is close. It wil help a lot if you look at your thread chart and drill the next size up on the minor diameter, with that corse of a thread, at least .010 over size would be no issue. 
Last tip is to use Moly-Dee thread cutting fluid on steel, it stinks, it stains everything green, fingers included, but it will lower your torque requirements by probably close to half. In production we used to mix 510 Drawing oil, picture a thick honey consistency, with Moly-Dee and called it Gorilla Snot. The thick oil made it stick to the tap better and the moly-dee made it cut. I hate to think about how many 3/4-16 threads I cut in 347 Stainless Steel by hand when I was a kid… oh, and the tap handle had arms on it 12”-16" long on each side so you could get the leverage you needed. The tap handle below is a 16” long Starrett…. it’ll cost you unless you can find one used. 
? ? good to know about accusize. i am very fussy about keeping tap perpendicular checking with small square as i start. with a ratcheting T wrench using both hands there should not be much leaning but i can’t say i did not cause it being new to this.
On Dec 13, 2020, at 8:29 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?Nothing wrong with Accusize tools/cutters, not the highest quality but definitely not the worst. Mostly likely from the looks of it you snapped it off from leaning. Trying to tap 1/2-13 in steel by hand is kind of not going to happen with any kind of consistency. ? ? is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price. i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect? <image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg> i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
?
?
|
Hi Imran,
I don’t see any clear indication of defect. ?I assume you are using a cutting fluid and hand operating the tap. ?I.E., the tap is not mounted in a hand drill, or drill press. Like you, I have broken plenty of taps of varying quality over the years. ?It is quite easy to break a tap when operating by hand. ?Minor misalignment will allow the tap to bind more as it cuts through the the metal. ?To minimize risk of breakage, one needs to back it out frequently to clear the chips, and then move forward again with plenty of lubrication. ?I’m sure you already know all these tips, but I mention them just in case.
If I use a tap mounted in a hand held drill, I set the clutch and reverse it when the clutch activates to clear the chips, then forward again. ?I’ve had poor luck when using taps mounted in the drill press.
Good luck,
Alex
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 4:56 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
Thanks Alex for the tips. I would like to share that Accusize was very accommodating. Spoke with a live body and a replacement tap is on the way. I have learned a lot from this thread in technique and methods and hope to do better in future taping endeavors ?
Imran
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On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:36 PM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote: ? Hi Imran,
I don’t see any clear indication of defect. ?I assume you are using a cutting fluid and hand operating the tap. ?I.E., the tap is not mounted in a hand drill, or drill press. Like you, I have broken plenty of taps of varying quality over the years. ?It is quite easy to break a tap when operating by hand. ?Minor misalignment will allow the tap to bind more as it cuts through the the metal. ?To minimize risk of breakage, one needs to back it out frequently to clear the chips, and then move forward again with plenty of lubrication. ?I’m sure you already know all these tips, but I mention them just in case.
If I use a tap mounted in a hand held drill, I set the clutch and reverse it when the clutch activates to clear the chips, then forward again. ?I’ve had poor luck when using taps mounted in the drill press.
Good luck,
Alex On Dec 13, 2020, at 4:56 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
I learned a lot too. ?Thanks for sharing. ?I ordered a guide as suggested. ?
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On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:08 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thanks Alex for the tips. I would like to share that Accusize was very accommodating. Spoke with a live body and a replacement tap is on the way. I have learned a lot from this thread in technique and methods and hope to do better in future taping endeavors ?
Imran On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:36 PM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote: ? Hi Imran,
I don’t see any clear indication of defect. ?I assume you are using a cutting fluid and hand operating the tap. ?I.E., the tap is not mounted in a hand drill, or drill press. Like you, I have broken plenty of taps of varying quality over the years. ?It is quite easy to break a tap when operating by hand. ?Minor misalignment will allow the tap to bind more as it cuts through the the metal. ?To minimize risk of breakage, one needs to back it out frequently to clear the chips, and then move forward again with plenty of lubrication. ?I’m sure you already know all these tips, but I mention them just in case.
If I use a tap mounted in a hand held drill, I set the clutch and reverse it when the clutch activates to clear the chips, then forward again. ?I’ve had poor luck when using taps mounted in the drill press.
Good luck,
Alex On Dec 13, 2020, at 4:56 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
I try to stay larger than 1/4" when hand tapping and use a Procunier or tapmatic whenever possible.? Hand tapping is turn about 1/4-1/2 turn and back off.? If you are tapping #4-40, buy a million taps and be ready to be frustrated.? I have a lot of English
machines and my Whitworth sets have three taps per size.? Start with the undersized one and move up as needed.? Downside is they are made in India and I've never found much in precision in tooling from there.? Dave
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I learned a lot too. ?Thanks for sharing. ?I ordered a guide as suggested. ?
On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:08 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Alex for the tips. I would like to share that Accusize was very accommodating. Spoke with a live body and a replacement tap is on the way. I have learned a lot from this thread in technique and methods and hope to do better in future taping
endeavors ?
Imran
On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:36 PM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
?Hi Imran,
I don’t see any clear indication of defect. ?I assume you are using a cutting fluid and hand operating the tap. ?I.E., the tap is not mounted in a hand drill, or drill press. Like you, I have broken plenty of taps of varying quality over the years. ?It
is quite easy to break a tap when operating by hand. ?Minor misalignment will allow the tap to bind more as it cuts through the the metal. ?To minimize risk of breakage, one needs to back it out frequently to clear the chips, and then move forward again with
plenty of lubrication. ?I’m sure you already know all these tips, but I mention them just in case.
If I use a tap mounted in a hand held drill, I set the clutch and reverse it when the clutch activates to clear the chips, then forward again. ?I’ve had poor luck when using taps mounted in the drill press.
Good luck,
Alex
On Dec 13, 2020, at 4:56 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap & drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing defect?
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
i am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
one more thing
When hand tapping? using a cutting tap or die ( as opposed to a
forming tap or die) Drive the tap in? about half a turn ( or so)?
and then back it out? a half turn (or so).? You will figure this
out? the forst time you do it.? What is happening is? you need to
"Break the Chip" that was forming as the tap or die cut into the
material.?
Backing it off like that? will? do a few things (1)? Replenish
the lube at the cutting? edges, (2) snap that off and make things
progress easier, (3)? it makes it way more possible? to extract a
broken tap and? (4) way less likely? that you will snap a tap.?
On 12/13/20 7:55 PM, imranindiana via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
is anyone familiar with accusize industrial tools? it is a
canadian co out of toronto. i recently purchased two tap &
drill sets metric and SAE. i went with them because they offered
HSS at reasonable price.
i used the 1/2-13 tap first time today and it broke mid way
in 1/2” CR1018 steel bar. yes, i did drill 27/64” hole with the
drill that came with the tap. just curious, folks with metal
knowhow, can you tell if this break shows a manufacturing
defect?
i
am sure they will send me a replacement tap but i am just
wondering if i should return the set or both sets because i am
not sure of the quality any more.
Imran
|
imran
David P. Best
Larry