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Felder AD941 vs SCM Fs41ES

 
Edited

I'm leaning toward the Fs41ES for a couple reasons:
A. Cheaper
B. Can be picked up locally in LA.
C. Both machines are probably going to be. overkill for my use, but I like the power height adjustment and ease of change over relative to the cheaper machines.
?
My main problem with the Scm vs the Felder is the fence cylinder in the back that requires to have the machine sit 16" from the wall- can someone please verify that vs the felder?
?
And of course any input would be appreciated!
?
Thanks?
 

Yes…true, but there are also features of the SCM that are better than the Felder such as:
1.) no need to flip dust shoot from Right hand to Left hand with the SCM.
2.) no need to lower the planer table more than 2 inches to shift from planer back to jointer mode thus potentially saving time and wear and tear on motor and electronics.
3.) table design is a simpler parallelogram and while I’ve not had to adjust the tables, Im told it is a much simpler process if the need arrises.

As far as the 16”…I keep my jointer in front of a 25” drum sander that I don’t use a lot and the bar sits in between the sander and another cabinet. If I have to use the sander I just pull the fence forward and insert the mobility lever in the J/P, and pull it out of the way and pull ?the sander forward. It works out fine.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Brian D. Milidrag
5300?John R Rd, Troy, MI 48085
Cell?248.765.8411


On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 1:24?AM JDhm via <Jdanohm=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm leaning toward the Fs41ES for a couple reasons:
A. Cheaper
B. Can be picked up locally in LA.
C. Both machines are probably going to be. overkill for my use, but I like the power height adjustable and ease of change over relative to the cheaper machines.
?
My main problem with the Scm vs the Felder is the fence cylinder in the back that requires to have the machine to sit 16" from the wall- can someone please verify that vs the felder?
?
And of course any input would be appreciated!
?
Thanks?
 

I did quite a bit of reading a while back, and ended up concluding that the FS41ES was the machine to get.? It seemed like the general opinion was that it was a better engineering combo machine.? Up here at Lake Tahoe, the high altitude forces one to de-rate the performance of a dust collection system.? I was leaning towards the FS41ES anyway, but the deciding factor was the dust collection not needing to trade sides allows for a shorter length of flex hose, and thus a lower static pressure in the duct work.? Unfortunately, I've never owned one of the Felder jointer/planer combos, so I cannot directly compare from personal experience.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
 

AD941 user here.

Mine is ~14" from the wall, I could get it a little closer, If you removed the fence you could almost have it flush, but you would be crazy to remove it, its got quite a bit of gravity.

People do mention about adjustment, but after the initial adjustment mine has been locked in, including after moving ~1,000 miles so very happy.
The Euro Comfort Guard is also what sold me after comming from a Hammer machine which has a similar fence to the MiniMax.
?
?
-Karl
 

I had a 2005 model AD741 and a 2007 model FS41ES side by side in my shop for a period of over 12 years.? I sold my AD741 about 3 years ago.? You can definitely get the AD741 closer to the wall than the FS41ES but the difference is not as much as you might think (I do not recall the amount but you still need clearance to account for the fence height and the fence support bar).? While the performance of each is similar, the FS41ES has much more convenient controls for engaging the feed drive and table lockdown.? I do think the jointer guard on the AD741 is superior especially with the Comfortguard.
Steve
 

Steve - were you using the Euro guard on the FS41ES??? Or was it the porkchop guard?
?
-Aaron Inami
 

Aaron,
I have both but was referring to the Euro guard.? The pork chop guard is a piece of junk.
Steve
 
Edited

Thank you this is helpful- FS41ES it is then. Now the questions is the Tersa head vs the Xylent. I was set on the Tersa until I realized I'll need to change blades with different types of wood? from my research it looks like most people end up with carbide blades on the tersa- than mind as well get the Xylent to begin with no?
 

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There are three grades of knives for the Tersa: HSS, M4, and Carbide. ?You can use any of them with any wood, but they each have different qualities with respect to edge durability and the resulting surface finish. ?The HSS and M4 have a very sharp edge and will give the best finish. ?The carbide blades are less sharp, the finish is not as smooth, but will last the longest. ?

Some tropical hardwood types contain higher amounts of silica which will dull the HSS quickly, and thus it’s advised to used the M4 or carbide on those woods. ?Teak has high silica and is best matched to the carbide blades. ?I run M4 on my J/P and have and zero “quick dulling” issues with that grade when used on all the common American hard and softwoods including Ash, Oak, Maple, etc, as well as with European Beech, as well as Cocobolo, SA Rosewood, Bubinga, Wenge, etc.. ?I only switch to carbide when machining Teak, although there may be other tropical hardwoods that also contains higher amounts of silica - others here may have broader experience with the exotic varieties.

I just changed blades on my Dual 51 4-knife Tersa head and it was under 10 minutes start-to-finish. ?Turning all the cutters on a spiral head to get a fresh edge is often an hour or more depending on sap buildup and the amount of cleaning required. ?The primary advantage of the spiral heads are lower noise, and more compact chips in the dust extractor. ?I love the Tersa system - great finish, easy knife changes, and extractor bags that fill more quickly but are not as heavy and easier to manhandle. ?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On Mar 26, 2025, at 6:52?PM, JDhm via groups.io <Jdanohm@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you this is helpful- FS41ES it is then. Now the questions is the Tersa head vs the Xylent. I was set on the Tersa until I realized I'll need to change blades with different types of wood? from my research it looks like most people end up with carbide blades on the tersa- than mind as well get the Xylent to begin with no?
 

AFTER, I got my FS41ES with the Xylent?head I was having a discussion?with Bryan from 360 degree machinery ( a GREAT source for this machine) and he agreed with David Best. I've?not yet had to change any of the cutters on the segmented head, so I can't testify to the ease or difficulty of the change...yet! I do love the machine though and am glad for having gotten it.

Kind regards,

Brian D. Milidrag
5300 John R Rd, Troy, MI 48085
Cell?248.765.8411??


On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 10:23?PM David P. Best via <dbestworkshop=[email protected]> wrote:
There are three grades of knives for the Tersa: HSS, M4, and Carbide.? You can use any of them with any wood, but they each have different qualities with respect to edge durability and the resulting surface finish.? The HSS and M4 have a very sharp edge and will give the best finish.? The carbide blades are less sharp, the finish is not as smooth, but will last the longest. ?

Some tropical hardwood types contain higher amounts of silica which will dull the HSS quickly, and thus it’s advised to used the M4 or carbide on those woods.? Teak has high silica and is best matched to the carbide blades.? I run M4 on my J/P and have and zero “quick dulling” issues with that grade when used on all the common American hard and softwoods including Ash, Oak, Maple, etc, as well as with European Beech, as well as Cocobolo, SA Rosewood, Bubinga, Wenge, etc..? I only switch to carbide when machining Teak, although there may be other tropical hardwoods that also contains higher amounts of silica - others here may have broader experience with the exotic varieties.

I just changed blades on my Dual 51 4-knife Tersa head and it was under 10 minutes start-to-finish.? Turning all the cutters on a spiral head to get a fresh edge is often an hour or more depending on sap buildup and the amount of cleaning required.? The primary advantage of the spiral heads are lower noise, and more compact chips in the dust extractor.? I love the Tersa system - great finish, easy knife changes, and extractor bags that fill more quickly but are not as heavy and easier to manhandle. ?


On Mar 26, 2025, at 6:52?PM, JDhm via <Jdanohm=[email protected]> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you this is helpful- FS41ES it is then. Now the questions is the Tersa head vs the Xylent. I was set on the Tersa until I realized I'll need to change blades with different types of wood? from my research it looks like most people end up with carbide blades on the tersa- than mind as well get the Xylent to begin with no?
 

JDhm,
I have the Tersa knives mostly because the Xylent head was not an option when I purchased the machine in 2007.? I have used the M42 knives since 2007 and they keep an edge longer than I expected.? I typically change edges when I feel more resistance when jointing (this is hard to quantify).? For my hobby use, I go through both edges on a set of M42 knives about once per year.? These knives handle over 98% of what I have thrown at them but it does tend to chipout with curly maple, birdseye maple, and quilted white oak.? If you do a lot of figured woods or species that are very hard on knives, I would probably opt for the Xylent head.? Like David mentioned, another consideration is the capacity of your dust collection bins.? If you have large capacity bins, the Tersa would be fine but if you have small capacity, the Xylent could be the better option.
Steve
 

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Hi JDhm

Here is a video of 1 knife change on tersa head, casually done in 26 secs. David is generous. A typical knife change takes me 2 mins. Add another min if you start in planer mode. The knives snap in place when the head spins.


Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Mar 26, 2025, at 10:23?PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?There are three grades of knives for the Tersa: HSS, M4, and Carbide. ?You can use any of them with any wood, but they each have different qualities with respect to edge durability and the resulting surface finish. ?The HSS and M4 have a very sharp edge and will give the best finish. ?The carbide blades are less sharp, the finish is not as smooth, but will last the longest. ?

Some tropical hardwood types contain higher amounts of silica which will dull the HSS quickly, and thus it’s advised to used the M4 or carbide on those woods. ?Teak has high silica and is best matched to the carbide blades. ?I run M4 on my J/P and have and zero “quick dulling” issues with that grade when used on all the common American hard and softwoods including Ash, Oak, Maple, etc, as well as with European Beech, as well as Cocobolo, SA Rosewood, Bubinga, Wenge, etc.. ?I only switch to carbide when machining Teak, although there may be other tropical hardwoods that also contains higher amounts of silica - others here may have broader experience with the exotic varieties.

I just changed blades on my Dual 51 4-knife Tersa head and it was under 10 minutes start-to-finish. ?Turning all the cutters on a spiral head to get a fresh edge is often an hour or more depending on sap buildup and the amount of cleaning required. ?The primary advantage of the spiral heads are lower noise, and more compact chips in the dust extractor. ?I love the Tersa system - great finish, easy knife changes, and extractor bags that fill more quickly but are not as heavy and easier to manhandle. ?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On Mar 26, 2025, at 6:52?PM, JDhm via groups.io <Jdanohm@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you this is helpful- FS41ES it is then. Now the questions is the Tersa head vs the Xylent. I was set on the Tersa until I realized I'll need to change blades with different types of wood? from my research it looks like most people end up with carbide blades on the tersa- than mind as well get the Xylent to begin with no?

 

What is your take about using only 2 real Tersa blades and 2 dummy blanks?

 

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I have myself, and know others (shipwrights mostly) who have used just 2 carbide in conjunction with 2 dull HSS knives to perform surfacing and thicknessing rough Teak. I also know people who configure the cutterhead with carbide on the right side of the head and M42 on the left and switch between the two when jointing depending on material ? A lot of this is driven by the cost of the carbide knives,

For instance, it cost me about $600 to replace the four 510mm Tersa blades on my Dual 51 with carbide. ?In contrast the same knife set in M42 is about $80.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On Mar 26, 2025, at 7:52?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:

What is your take about using only 2 real Tersa blades and 2 dummy blanks?

 

Is the difference in finish really noticeable? I mainly do cabinet shop work with trending materials (at the moment a lot of white oak and hard maple) also how is a 3hp cyclone with a 60 gallon bin is going to handle work with Tersa vs Xylent?

 

Yes, you can see the difference between Tersa and spiral. You can easily go from planer directly to 150-180 (my final grit when using hardwax)
with spiral I had to go down to 80-100 to remove some minor milling marks.?
?
60 gallon can handle it, it depends on how frequent you are willing to empty it. I can easily fill a 35 gallon in a single milling operation.

 

Oh wow that's significant.
What is a single milling operation for you?

 

I milled some lumber for a table. Did some 8/4 to 6/4. And some 5/4 to -16mm (currently between bandsaws, so had to mill the material vs resaw it)
Let’s say 50BF-60BF

 

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I did a search of the message archives, and several people mentioned improved chip density in the dust collector withe the spiral head and that the Tersa produces “fluffy chips” that take up more room be are lighter weight. ?The only quantifiable difference statement was an estimate of 20-pecent different in chip volume. ?Several people commented that the spiral head is better with difficult grains like Birds Eye, etc. unless the Tarsa knives were new. ?There are also a. number of comments that the spiral head requires more finishing effort to work out the “divots”. ?I just finished milling 100 BF of wide cherry from 5/4 rough (and twisted) ?to 22.5mm S4S stock, and ended up with 9 (? full) light bags of fluffy chips from my RL160 like shown below.

Chipsb - 1.jpeg

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On Mar 26, 2025, at 10:16?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:

Yes, you can see the difference between Tersa and spiral. You can easily go from planer directly to 150-180 (my final grit when using hardwax)
with spiral I had to go down to 80-100 to remove some minor milling marks.?
?
60 gallon can handle it, it depends on how frequent you are willing to empty it. I can easily fill a 35 gallon in a single milling operation.

 

David,
?
… why bother with going to the gym when your Felder units provide you with such an opportunity for exercise? ?
?
Thanks for the literature review. A lot of the knowledge of interest is generally available somewhere. The challenge is usually to find it in a timely fashion and accessible format.
?
Bonne journée ,
?
Jacques

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