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Shaper Cutter Set Suggestions #shapertools #shop-pics

 

Looking to add shaper tools for kitchen, vanity doors and drawer profiles.? I have a Felder KF7X with shaper plus 1-1/4 and 30mm spindles.? Also have router spindle. Simple, clean profiles is what I'm looking for.? I found some in group photos that are nice but don't know what these brands are: ?/g/felderownersgroup/photo/104482/1246059?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0? and ?.? Suggestions much appreciated.??
 

Whitehill tools adjustable cutters.?


I have both shaker and profile sets. Zero set feature is amazing for production runs.?

On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 11:06?AM Ron Corselli via <rcorselli=[email protected]> wrote:
Looking to add shaper tools for kitchen, vanity doors and drawer profiles.? I have a Felder KF7X with shaper plus 1-1/4 and 30mm spindles.? Also have router spindle. Simple, clean profiles is what I'm looking for.? I found some in group photos that are nice but don't know what these brands are: ?/g/felderownersgroup/photo/104482/1246059?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0? and ?.? Suggestions much appreciated.??

 

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Hi Ron, it’s been a while. ?Nice to see you are still woodworking and tuning in here.

I too am a fan of simple profiles, favoring Shaker style as the inspiration. ?For the two projects you called out, I used Freeborn brazed carbide cope & stick (aka “stile/rail”) profile cutter #PC-10-050 | PT-10-050 you can find?.? They make a number of profiles in both??and?. ?Both types are 4” diameter with 1? bore, although they will make other bore sizes on demand. ?The first example you called out was done in 2003 on a KF-700 of that era. ?

For panel raising and drawer front edging profiles, I used a Whitehill panel cutter with replaceable knives that support a variety of standard and custom profiles, but they tend to be ultra simple designs which I favor. ?I have??from them (190mm, 30mm bore, but in steel since that’s what they sold in 2002) and although I have all the stock profiles, I generally favor “J” and “B” styles because of their simplicity. ?One big advantage of this head/knife set is that the profile can be as wide as 40mm which is often desirable for simple esthetics, and I often tilt the cutter to further reduce the pronouncement of the profile. ?The biggest disadvantage of the 190mm diameter set is that at that size and on a KF700, it must be run as an over-cutter (on top of the material), which has its plusses and minuses. ?This is due to the mechanical interferences below the cast iron top in the shaper cavity. ?More on that topic?. ?With those simple cutters from Freeborn and Whitehill ?I have probably churned out the equivalent of 25 kitchens with plenty of??(including flat panel), and never needed to sharpen or get new knives.

There are plenty of other alternatives, particularly if you want “investment-grade” tooling. ?Given your focus on simplicity, check out?from Whitehilll for use with??(plus two additional cutters that support other profiles - ask them for specifics). ?Beware that those sets have a minimum stile/rail thickness of 22mm. ?You should also check out the sets from Rangate - they support stile/rial thickness of 19-25mm. ?And Rangate FINALLY introduced a?(similar to my Freeborn set) for their indexable??set. ?If you just want a simple bevel at the stile/rail profile, Rangate makes a?. ?But as you can see, tooling up will be a substantial investment. ?Rangate also makes a nice insert tooling set for?, but their width-of-cut is less than the Whitehill alternative, and their profiles are more severe in pronouncement. ?I really like the long shallow and simple panel profiles from Whitehill. ?Rangate panel profiles can be found in?.

I would suggest you first determine your budget for this tooling setup and figure out stile/rail thickness requirements. ?If you were planning to do a lot of frame-n-panel doors, then standardizing on a tool diameter that will go below the cast iron top would be an important consideration, and ideally tooling in the 160-180mm diameter would be ideal. ?It would also be ideal if they were “zero set” type which makes setup less error prone. ?That said, I’ve been very satisfied with my simpler and under $1,000 setup. ?Feel free to DM me if you want more specifics. ?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On Jun 7, 2024, at 8:06?AM, Ron Corselli via groups.io <rcorselli@...> wrote:

Looking to add shaper tools for kitchen, vanity doors and drawer profiles.? I have a Felder KF7X with shaper plus 1-1/4 and 30mm spindles.? Also have router spindle. Simple, clean profiles is what I'm looking for.? I found some in group photos that are nice but don't know what these brands are: ?/g/felderownersgroup/photo/104482/1246059?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0? and ?.? Suggestions much appreciated.??

 
Edited

Thanks David, good to be back.? Glad your still on the FOG!? I retired end of October so now I'll be spending a lot more time in the shop.? Much appreciate the detailed info and specific links which I will delve into thoroughly.? I do have a Garniga kitchen profile set (11-102, 20mm-28mm) and panel raising cutter (05-108) I got from Rangate some time ago.? Used it once on a kitchen build. But, I do need some classic/simple style for current plans.? I haven't explored what other knives or setups on the Garniga might be possible yet but will be on that now.? I really like that Freeborn profile too.? The Whiteside has good options and is still reasonable.? Now if only, I had bought Mac's clamps before the inflation hit!? More questions to follow I'm sure.

Photo of Garniga Kitchen profile:
 

Hi Ron, I did a review/summary of the Whitehill set here:
Its very versatile, but they have also started producing the "shaker" or bevel front (I think 15 or 20 deg) components for this set which means you don't need to buy an additional set for this profile, just a couple of components.? They will also do outside door profiles of whatever you want and the panel raisers mentioned above can be custom made to whatever design you want.
 

Hi David, I used the Whitehill set to make doors thinner than their 22mm limit and it works just fine if you're ok with the geometry of the joint it produces.? Images and footage are available in my video.
 

Yes, I've confirmed that a 15degree bevel front (shaker) is being produced now and you only need to pick up a couple of components to make it work, not a whole new set.? Can someone give me a quick tutorial on how to add an image to a post?? I'd like to share an image, but can't see an "insert image" button like all other forum software provides....
 

Thanks for the additional, info Brent.? There is an image add tab below the subject header.? If you click on that it has a drag and drop feature.? I'll try it now to add pic of kitchen profile I used once.? Hope it works.?
 

I discovered Rangate also has new bevel style profile knives that fit the head I already have.? However, the groove is only 5mm as opposed to their Stile and Rail set that David had listed above which has 6mm as does the Freeborn.? What material are you using for flat panels (painted and stained)?

Garniga 11102160030650 Kitchen Cabinet Set:
 

Ron, I have the Italian version of that Garniga set that allows for thicker doors. I think the US version goes down to 19mm thick typical for US construction. I have additional grovers for my set that you should be able to order. I have 6 and 7 mm in addition to the standard 5mm.
Myself I don’t care to use 1/4” ply for any flat panel doors. Just seems flimsy. In solid I use 12mm thick and rebate or cove the back. For paint grade I use 1/2” MDJ and treat the same. For me groove thickness is not critical building this way.
Good to know about the bevel being available for this set. What I like about this set is you can do true tenons if desired.
I demo the Rangate bevel shaker set in the Alpine workshops. It’s a nice precise fitting set but does not interchange with the old Garniga sets.

IMG_1564.jpeg
IMG_9023.jpeg
IMG_9022.jpeg

 

I recently built some simple square edge cabinet doors for my guest apartment. Using adjustable groovers for through tenons and the 6mm panel groove. Mesquite 12mm panels and ash frames.
Mesquite was left over from a door job.
 

Pictures of the through tenoned doors.

IMG_8315.jpeg
IMG_8314.jpeg

 

Hi Ron, the Whitehill set Andy refers to above includes the "bevel front" profile as standard and all of the options let you do long, traditional tenons too which is nice for higher end work.
 

Thanks for your input, Joe.? I did confirm with Rangate (where I originally purchased the kitchen set) they have larger groovers.? So, being able to add the simple profile inserts to it seems the best option.? Although, if I had known about the Whitehill, that would have been the way to go, much value with the components and features.??
I hadn't looked much at the longer tenon variation of the Garniga set, but now you mention it, that's something I'm going to explore.? If you have any more tips on how you're using it, please let me know.
BTW, a rebate and solid panel is another I'm going to do.? Do you attach a thin frame at the back or clips to hold it in?
-Ron
 

Ron, yes the different size Grover’s are good to have. I got them more to match my hollow chisel 6 mm bit for tenoned doors. When doing the thicker rebated panels they are captured in a groove just like a flat panel would be. Here is a picture of the back after assembly. I use my Garniga Multiuser cutter to rebate and put a small chamfer on in one pass. Other picture shows the stiles and rails before assembly. These doors were made with adjustable Grover’s and the Multiuse cutter.
I think I have pictures somewhere of using the Garniga cabinet set with tenons.
Some of my Garniga tools are 25 years old now and have served me well. I have tooling from many mfgs- Zuani, TWT, Leitz, Whitehill Oertli, Felder made by Stark, Freud, Steele and a bunch of US mfgs -Freeborn, LRH, Great Lakes and a few others. TWT, Leitz and Oertli are the best of the Euro mfgs and leaders in insert tools. Back many years though Garniga was the pioneer of insert tooling.

IMG_9129.jpeg
IMG_5920.jpeg

 

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Hi Joe,

Rookie question. What do you write with on the processed pieces. I see red identifications in your picture.

Imran Malik

On Jun 15, 2024, at 8:48?PM, Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...> wrote:

?Ron, yes the different size Grover’s are good to have. I got them more to match my hollow chisel 6 mm bit for tenoned doors. When doing the thicker rebated panels they are captured in a groove just like a flat panel would be. Here is a picture of the back after assembly. I use my Garniga Multiuser cutter to rebate and put a small chamfer on in one pass. Other picture shows the stiles and rails before assembly. These doors were made with adjustable Grover’s and the Multiuse cutter.
I think I have pictures somewhere of using the Garniga cabinet set with tenons.
Some of my Garniga tools are 25 years old now and have served me well. ?I have tooling from many mfgs- Zuani, TWT, Leitz, Whitehill Oertli, Felder made by Stark, Freud, Steele and a bunch of US mfgs -Freeborn, LRH, Great Lakes and a few others. TWT, Leitz and Oertli are the best of the Euro mfgs and leaders in insert tools. Back many years though Garniga was the pioneer of insert tooling.





<IMG_9129.jpeg>
<IMG_5920.jpeg>
 
Edited

Imran
It’s just a lumber crayon. I only use it if parts get wide belted. It will cause problems if used further along in the machining process.
 

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Thanks Joe. I have not researched this. I just place painters tape and write on it but figured pros probably have a better solution.

Imran Malik

On Jun 15, 2024, at 9:54?PM, Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...> wrote:

?[Edited Message Follows]

Imran
It’s just a lumber crayon. I only use it if parts get wide belted. It will cause problems if used further along in the machining process.
 

Imran,

A lumber crayon works very well on both rough and planed (surfaced) wood. As Joe indicated, sanding is required down the road. Since I do not have a belt sander, I use either a Pica red lead or small 0.5 and 0.7mm pencil once I have surfaced the wood.

Regards,

Jacques
 

On 16 Jun 2024 15:11, Jacques Gagnon <jacques.gagnon309@...> wrote:
A lumber crayon works very well on both rough and planed (surfaced) wood.
In my training as furniture maker (EU mainland) I was thought to mainly use a wood crayon for rough layout before sizing raw material, very rarely/sparingly on other occasions.?

On any processed surfaces and roughly dimensioned wood critical dimensions, like cut lines, joint layout lines and the like were to be made with at least a H, preferably 2H pencil or a marking knife.?
Don't overdo it as pressing hard when marking requires a lot of sanding.?
By methodical and mindfully marking on the side of the cut most of the times the marking lines would be removed sawing or would be the place to put your chisel in the final pairing cut of fitting/finishing joints.

Pairing marks and the like with HB pencil as these can be easily removed with some light sanding.?

Kind regards,?

Jonathan?

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