New Hammer N440 or Used/like new Minimax S45N
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWaemsey,(not sure if this is your name), No one has mentioned it in this thread but I thought people had issues with N4400. Have you searched it here? One I recall is related to the upper bearing support assembly. I don¡¯t have one so can¡¯t comment from personal experience but I suggest you learn about this particular issue before making a decision. Imran Malik On Mar 15, 2024, at 12:44?PM, wawmsey via groups.io <wawmsey@...> wrote:
?Thanks for all replies.. The MM16 (S400P) is not available in the UK. I guess the nearest equivalent is the S440P which while undoubtedly a superior saw is unfortunately out of my budget at approximately ?4500! The S45N appears to be the budget SCM/MiniMax offering and hence my hesitancy..? I guess I was hoping for some personal experience with the S45N to offer some sort of comparison to the more documented/reviewed N4400. Thanks? |
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGood. Just wanted to be sure you are aware and not get surprised afterwards even though you tried to research ?Imran Malik On Mar 15, 2024, at 1:05?PM, wawmsey via groups.io <wawmsey@...> wrote:
?Hi Imran Thanks for reply.? Yes I am aware that the N4400 is not without some flaws. I got the impression this particular issue wasn't universal and the 'fudged' solution is to to not over-tighten the knob locking/securing the guide assembly.. I'm sure the N4400 is an adequate saw just wondering if the ?750 cheaper S45N (admittedly 2nd hand) is an equal or even superior alternative..? |
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHere is a link illustrating the issue - make sure you can deal with this before you buy. ?It¡¯s a systemic problem with this N4400 machine, and makes veneer resewing a huge challenge:David Best DBestWorkshop@... https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/ https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Matt, I have had my N4400 for about 15 years. I cannot comment how it compares with much else as my previous bandsaw was a generic Taiwanese 14", and really forgetable. The N4400 has been utterly reliable and up to every task I have asked of it, bar one. The downside of my generation is an 11 1/2" resaw height ... and Murphy's Law states that I often have 12" boards to cut!? That said, the 4 hp motor is powerful, and I work with hardwoods from Australia as well as Rock Maple from the US. It tensions up a 1" Lenox Woodmaster Carbide blade. The original guides and tyres are still being used ( I did purchase replacement tyres but contaft glued the old ones while awaiting delivery, and they have had a second life ... that was 5 years ago). I have replaced the belt.? Some may view the table to be smaller-than-ideal, but it has been large enough for my needs. I did add a short extension to the front, and this has been enough. The fence is good and solid, and better since I installed a DRO. The guides are rather basic but do the job, could be upgraded to the ceramic type, but I know that I would not see any benefit as there is zero wander. I made a mod to the dust collection, and it is now pretty good. ? ? |
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The next size up is where you should be starting looking, since you've mentioned power feeders IMO.
Just to comfortably use a Woodmaster CT, or other carbide blade, which need more tension. I would suggest the Meber 600 on the bay being something to consider, not sure how much beyond 200 quid they want for it, (needs a new motor) Or Centauro CO, specifically the ones from 1980's to 1995 (note telescopic guidepost, but missing mitre slot) The both of those being fully adjustable, concerning the bare bones of things, i.e motor and lower wheel to suit the upper wheel compared to any other Italian, or other modern saw based on such designed, sticking to the recipe is as good as it gets for sheet metal saws, i.e the Hammer is based on such, whilst the S45n is unlike anything else. The difference between said Meber or Centauro of a certain era being the foot mounted motor, compared to flange or face mounted motors on everything else, so makes adjustability a bit simplified compared. Not that it would bother me, cutting a hole into the machine to "let in" the motor to accommodate adjustibility on any, in order to suit the upper wheel, that is, and not make any compromises regarding splitting the difference between motor and wheel. Nothing guaranteed without such adjustability, so might as well look for something which you don't mind painting, just as long as you can be certain the wheel bearings are still snug in the wheel bores. i.e hands on , listening for noises whilst hand turning wheels, seeing it run, not with a narrow blade.. If you want cheap, or soft start, (for pleasant sake) then you might consider looking for bargain 3 phase Italian stuff, and look up the real UK run forum, the woodhaven 2, and download Bob's "Induction motor issue PDF" which would guide you through your options regarding having considered such a machine, which should have 240v on the motor nameplate. and lead you down the rational route, (certainly a no brainer for me in regards to my situation) of choosing to go the VFD/inverter route. So say 500 quid saw, or twice that for something in real good nick/cutting well 200 logistics to get home, 100 quid for cheapie, or around double for UK VFD, If old and for the former, some tires and glue... if not ACM's thick vulcanized real rubber, might be pricey, bearings and belts off the shelf, though could spend something on expensive guides should you buy a feeder Oh and a tin of paint should the need arise, for twenty, bits and bobs not going to cost a fortune. Have a look through some posts which is on the other UK forum, i.e Startrite tablesaws for instance, which will simplify things concerning the VFD/inverter setup, For a bandsaw or TS, it's no more complicated than wiring a 13a plug, and learning about, say 15 parameters (motor commands to be entered) is no biggie, and you won't find conflicting advice about those important things, so rest assured, not like a sharpening thread. If you do consider to read Bob Minchin's PDF, (best I've ever read on the matter) it'll open up a world of three phase machines to you, should you want better, but for half as much. All the best Tom |
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imran
David P. Best
Tom Trees
Tom, thanks for sharing. I have a BSEE, but power systems was my least favorite class and I skipped a lot. :-)
Michael
On Mar 16, 2024, at 11:01?PM, Tom Trees <tomasgilgunn@...> wrote:
?The next size up is where you should be starting looking, since you've mentioned power feeders IMO.
Just to comfortably use a Woodmaster CT, or other carbide blade, which need more tension.
I would suggest the Meber 600 on the bay being something to consider, not sure how much beyond 200 quid
they want for it, (needs a new motor)
Or Centauro CO, specifically the ones from 1980's to 1995 (note telescopic guidepost, but missing mitre slot)
The both of those being fully adjustable, concerning the bare bones of things, i.e motor and lower wheel to suit the upper wheel
compared to any other Italian, or other modern saw based on such designed, sticking to the recipe is as good as it gets for sheet metal saws,
i.e the Hammer is based on such, whilst the S45n is unlike anything else.
The difference between said Meber or Centauro of a certain era being the foot mounted motor, compared to flange or face mounted motors on everything else, so makes adjustability a bit simplified compared.
Not that it would bother me, cutting a hole into the machine to "let in" the motor to accommodate adjustibility on any,
in order to suit the upper wheel, that is, and not make any compromises regarding splitting the difference between motor and wheel.
Nothing guaranteed without such adjustability, so might as well look for something which you don't mind painting,
just as long as you can be certain the wheel bearings are still snug in the wheel bores.
i.e hands on , listening for noises whilst hand turning wheels, seeing it run, not with a narrow blade..
If you want cheap, or soft start, (for pleasant sake) then you might consider looking for bargain 3 phase Italian stuff,
and look up the real UK run forum, the woodhaven 2, and download Bob's "Induction motor issue PDF"
which would guide you through your options regarding having considered such a machine, which should have 240v on the motor nameplate.
and lead you down the rational route, (certainly a no brainer for me in regards to my situation)
of choosing to go the VFD/inverter route.
So say 500 quid saw, or twice that for something in real good nick/cutting well
200 logistics to get home, 100 quid for cheapie, or around double for UK VFD,
If old and for the former, some tires and glue... if not ACM's thick vulcanized real rubber, might be pricey,
bearings and belts off the shelf, though could spend something on expensive guides should you buy a feeder
Oh and a tin of paint should the need arise, for twenty, bits and bobs not going to cost a fortune.
Have a look through some posts which is on the other UK forum, i.e Startrite tablesaws for instance,
which will simplify things concerning the VFD/inverter setup,
For a bandsaw or TS, it's no more complicated than wiring a 13a plug,
and learning about, say 15 parameters (motor commands to be entered)
is no biggie, and you won't find conflicting advice about those important things, so rest assured,
not like a sharpening thread.
If you do consider to read Bob Minchin's PDF, (best I've ever read on the matter)
it'll open up a world of three phase machines to you, should you want better, but for half as much.
All the best
Tom