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Did I imagine it, or did someone post a good while ago, that they successfully retro fitted a spiral cutter head into a Hammer planner.
I have a noise problem with my C3- 31 and I don't really want to change it for separates.
Thanks guys.
Trevor Lusty
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On 14-2-2024 18:28, Trevor Lusty wrote: Did I imagine it, or did someone post a good while ago, that they successfully retro fitted a spiral cutter head into a Hammer planner. Yes, it is in the files section written by Mark Thomas: /g/felderownersgroup/files/How%20tos,%20modifications,%20and%20other%20notes/Hammer%20C3-31%20planer%20head%20removal%20notes.pdf And here is another post with attachment by John Terdik: /g/felderownersgroup/message/117051Kind regards, Jonathan
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In Australia Felder will not sell me a spiral cutter head for my C3-31. My only option is an aftermarket version. Can anyone make recommendations here? Thanks?
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On 15 Feb 2024, at 6:34?am, Trevor Lusty <trevlusty@...> wrote:
?Thank you Jonathan
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Could you get a member from a different country to get one and send to you ?
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Show quoted text
On 14 Feb 2024, at 20:46, Philip Krisanski < Philip@...> wrote:
In Australia Felder will not sell me a spiral cutter head for my C3-31. My only option is an aftermarket version. Can anyone make recommendations here? Thanks? Philip? ?Thank you Jonathan
|
Hi Philip,
I came across there spiral heads once, but have no personal experience with?them. Have it look or contact them if they don't have the head listed you need.
Best of luck!
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft? Cyprus?
|
Hey
It's not only in Australia. They just don't want to sell it as an upgrade. I tried it several times (Belgium). In the end I bought mine through . It only mentions the A3-31 but it also works on the C3-31.?
Regards Bram
Op do 15 feb. 2024 14:02 schreef Roger S < rsinden@...>: Could you get a member from a different country to get one and send to you ?
Roger On 14 Feb 2024, at 20:46, Philip Krisanski < Philip@...> wrote:
In Australia Felder will not sell me a spiral cutter head for my C3-31. My only option is an aftermarket version. Can anyone make recommendations here? Thanks? Philip? ?Thank you Jonathan
|
Hey
Just jumped on my PC as it's easier to get the next bit of info. My experience with shelix is positive in the?way that they are very responsive to questions and updates on the?production wait time. However they can only do so much and rely on bryd to provide accurate data.? After I bought it I did have a conversation with them going back and forward a couple of times regarding my experience. Below you can find my initial review
I installed the cutter head into a Hammer C3-31. All-in-all the conversion process is relatively simple (I used a guide from JGT?) but it did take me a full day to get it done. To get it installed I had to do 2 modifications. A first was filling down the locking key of the drive pulley. The recess in the shaft wasn't deep enough (about 750 micrometer).?What bothered me more was that there was insufficient clearance between the shaft and the threads of the front nut (the real big one) to fully seat against ?the bearing. I ended up grinding down some of the threads in the nut since I didn't have appropriate washers.?
I 've done comparative measurements in terms of sound and current consumption. The sound level is between 10 and 15 dBA lower and the current consumption on my 3-phase 4HP motor is comparable, to slightly lower between the straight knifes.
In terms of cut quality, well that 's why we did it. Now I am able to plane strange grained exotic hardwoods like Azobe and Bilinga without tear-out.
As a conclusion, I would do it again but I did expect a more high end product.?
One final side note. I have my out feed table 50-100 micrometer below the top of the cutter head. This means that when using it on the C3 you are no longer able to rotate all knifes fully out of the way thus when cutting with the table saw with large overhangs on the right side of the blade, there might be some scratching on scratch prone materials.? While marking the drawing I also remembered that the 90° groove on the left side should start sooner. Now the tip of the locking screw (that has the same angle on its tip as the groove) landed right on the transition between flat and angled side making less good contact than if the two angled surfaces would contact. On the original head there is no flat spot and it immediately goes from threads into the 90° groove.?
? I believe at the end of conversation I did manage to explain all the points in sufficient detail. I don't know if they actually changed anything to the dimensions?/ production tolerances.
Regards Bram Hey
It's not only in Australia. They just don't want to sell it as an upgrade. I tried it several times (Belgium). In the end I bought mine through . It only mentions the A3-31 but it also works on the C3-31.?
Regards Bram Op do 15 feb. 2024 14:02 schreef Roger S < rsinden@...>: Could you get a member from a different country to get one and send to you ?
Roger On 14 Feb 2024, at 20:46, Philip Krisanski < Philip@...> wrote:
In Australia Felder will not sell me a spiral cutter head for my C3-31. My only option is an aftermarket version. Can anyone make recommendations here? Thanks? Philip? ?Thank you Jonathan
|
Thank you for your feedback.? Does the Shelix give a high quality finish? Is anyone using another type of cutter head that they could recommend?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 16 Feb 2024, at 5:40?am, Bram Baert <bram.baert@...> wrote:
? Hey
Just jumped on my PC as it's easier to get the next bit of info. My experience with shelix is positive in the?way that they are very responsive to questions and updates on the?production wait time. However they can only do so much and rely on bryd to provide accurate data.? After I bought it I did have a conversation with them going back and forward a couple of times regarding my experience. Below you can find my initial review
I installed the cutter head into a Hammer C3-31. All-in-all the conversion process is relatively simple (I used a guide from JGT?) but it did take me a full day to get it done. To get it installed I had to do 2 modifications. A first was filling down the locking key of the drive pulley. The recess in the shaft wasn't deep enough (about 750 micrometer).?What bothered me more was that there was insufficient clearance between the shaft and the threads of the front nut (the real big one) to fully seat against ?the bearing. I ended up grinding down some of the threads in the nut since I didn't have appropriate washers.?
I 've done comparative measurements in terms of sound and current consumption. The sound level is between 10 and 15 dBA lower and the current consumption on my 3-phase 4HP motor is comparable, to slightly lower between the straight knifes.
In terms of cut quality, well that 's why we did it. Now I am able to plane strange grained exotic hardwoods like Azobe and Bilinga without tear-out.
As a conclusion, I would do it again but I did expect a more high end product.?
One final side note. I have my out feed table 50-100 micrometer below the top of the cutter head. This means that when using it on the C3 you are no longer able to rotate all knifes fully out of the way thus when cutting with the table saw with large overhangs on the right side of the blade, there might be some scratching on scratch prone materials.? While marking the drawing I also remembered that the 90° groove on the left side should start sooner. Now the tip of the locking screw (that has the same angle on its tip as the groove) landed right on the transition between flat and angled side making less good contact than if the two angled surfaces would contact. On the original head there is no flat spot and it immediately goes from threads into the 90° groove.?
? I believe at the end of conversation I did manage to explain all the points in sufficient detail. I don't know if they actually changed anything to the dimensions?/ production tolerances.
Regards Bram Hey
It's not only in Australia. They just don't want to sell it as an upgrade. I tried it several times (Belgium). In the end I bought mine through . It only mentions the A3-31 but it also works on the C3-31.?
Regards Bram Op do 15 feb. 2024 14:02 schreef Roger S < rsinden@...>: Could you get a member from a different country to get one and send to you ?
Roger On 14 Feb 2024, at 20:46, Philip Krisanski < Philip@...> wrote:
In Australia Felder will not sell me a spiral cutter head for my C3-31. My only option is an aftermarket version. Can anyone make recommendations here? Thanks? Philip? ?Thank you Jonathan
|
Hi Phil,?
?If you're exploring alternative cutter blocks, you could also look into whether there's a Tersa cutterblock available:?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Ok thanks Tom. What is the advantage of tersa cutter blocks?
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On 16 Feb 2024, at 10:09?am, Tom Gensmer <tom@...> wrote:
?Hi Phil,?
?If you're exploring alternative cutter blocks, you could also look into whether there's a Tersa cutterblock available:?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hi Phil,
The link Tom included in his suggestion about tersa cutter blocks says it all. ?Tersa cutter blocks use full length straight knives like most of the older design planers and jointers. ?They just have a unique design that enables one to very quickly change out dull or damaged knives for new sharp knives. ?There is no need for specialty tools and there is no hassle with setting the knives.
Other than that, I see no advantage to Tersa cutter blocks.
Have a wonderful day,
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Show quoted text
On Feb 18, 2024, at 12:00?AM, Philip Krisanski <Philip@...> wrote:
Ok thanks Tom. What is the advantage of tersa cutter blocks? Thanks Phil? On 16 Feb 2024, at 10:09?am, Tom Gensmer <tom@...> wrote:
?Hi Phil,?
?If you're exploring alternative cutter blocks, you could also look into whether there's a Tersa cutterblock available:?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed “debate” is more
often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I’m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any “problems” are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: “loud”
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding – I don’t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don’t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I’m probably missing some things here? I think what I’m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers, the
Tersa knife system holds up very well. I’ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
?
But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don’t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I’m missing out on. So be it.
?
I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
?
?
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hi Lucky,
Thank you for taking the time to provide an excellent summary. I only have 2 things to add.
Spiral/Helical/Xylent produce small chips that pack well and result in less frequent chip removal from the dust collector. Tersa on the other hand produces nice fluffy chips that fill up the bin rather quickly.
I am not certain that this applies to all of the spiral category but on some machines the max depth of cut may be limited. I read that in a review from a business; even 1 extra pass doubles their labor and time to finish the job. Happy Tersa user Imran Malik
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 18, 2024, at 6:10?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed “debate” is more
often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I’m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any “problems” are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: “loud”
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding – I don’t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don’t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I’m probably missing some things here? I think what I’m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers, the
Tersa knife system holds up very well. I’ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
?
But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don’t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I’m missing out on. So be it.
?
I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
?
?
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hi Imran:
?
Nice! I forgot to mention the chip load/size which is definitely “nice and fluffy” for the Tersa (which is not an advantage). I don’t know about the max depth of cut. I can’t imagine the knife geometry would
be an issue – rather the specific machine specs and particularly the HP? But that reminds me that I read somewhere that the spiral head designs require less HP when compared to straight knife systems like the Tersa? Cheers.
?
?
Hi Lucky,
Thank you for taking the time to provide an excellent summary. I only have 2 things to add.
Spiral/Helical/Xylent produce small chips that pack well and result in less frequent chip removal from the dust collector. Tersa on the other hand produces nice fluffy chips that fill up the bin rather quickly.
I am not certain that this applies to all of the spiral category but on some machines the max depth of cut may be limited. I read that in a review from a business; even 1 extra pass doubles their labor and
time to finish the job.
?
Happy Tersa user Imran Malik
On Feb 18, 2024, at 6:10?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed “debate” is more
often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I’m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any “problems” are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: “loud”
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding – I don’t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don’t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I’m probably missing some things here? I think what I’m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers, the
Tersa knife system holds up very well. I’ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
?
But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don’t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I’m missing out on. So be it.
?
I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
?
?
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hi Lucky,
I have not used a spiral head but manufacturers claim that it requires less power. I assume it is due to the fact that the straight knife cuts the entire width at the same time but on spiral head, depending upon the geometry, very few carbide cutters are engaged at any given time.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 18, 2024, at 6:45?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Hi Imran:
?
Nice! I forgot to mention the chip load/size which is definitely “nice and fluffy” for the Tersa (which is not an advantage). I don’t know about the max depth of cut. I can’t imagine the knife geometry would
be an issue – rather the specific machine specs and particularly the HP? But that reminds me that I read somewhere that the spiral head designs require less HP when compared to straight knife systems like the Tersa? Cheers.
?
?
Hi Lucky,
Thank you for taking the time to provide an excellent summary. I only have 2 things to add.
Spiral/Helical/Xylent produce small chips that pack well and result in less frequent chip removal from the dust collector. Tersa on the other hand produces nice fluffy chips that fill up the bin rather quickly.
I am not certain that this applies to all of the spiral category but on some machines the max depth of cut may be limited. I read that in a review from a business; even 1 extra pass doubles their labor and
time to finish the job.
?
Happy Tersa user Imran Malik
On Feb 18, 2024, at 6:10?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed “debate” is more
often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I’m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any “problems” are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: “loud”
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding – I don’t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don’t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I’m probably missing some things here? I think what I’m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers, the
Tersa knife system holds up very well. I’ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
?
But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don’t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I’m missing out on. So be it.
?
I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
?
?
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
I'd only add that Tersa ( my favorite also ) is generally found on a higher end machine and benefits from a chipbreaker, pressure bar, and good hold downs similar to what is needed for a good straight knife machine.? A spiral is better on a lower end machine
as the head compensates for the lack of those items.? The chips are an issue as the Tersa needs better dust collection but the power needed for a spiral depends somewhat on it's design and the number of inserts.? Most high end planers are three phase and 7.5
hp so kind of irrelevant.? If i was buying a Hammer or 700 series I'd look at spiral.? A Format or Martin, I'd go Tersa.
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed “debate” is
more often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I’m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any “problems” are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: “loud”
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding – I don’t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don’t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I’m probably missing some things here? I think what I’m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers,
the Tersa knife system holds up very well. I’ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
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But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don’t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I’m missing out on. So be it.
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I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
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Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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?If i was buying a Hammer or 700 series I'd look at spiral.? A Format or Martin, I'd go Tersa.
Spiral? ≈?Pantorouter Tersa ?≈?Multirouter?
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David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Jonathan Martens
Tom Gensmer
David Luckensmeyer
imran
David P. Best