Thanks Aaron just got it set up so still babying it. Just took a slight bump back and it¡¯s good Tolve construction
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On Jul 20, 2023, at 12:22 PM, yoav g <ygortzak@...> wrote:
?
On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 11:13 AM Aaron Inami < ainami@...> wrote: I would check underneath your slider to make sure there isn't any material blocks in the sliders that would prevent you from pulling the slider all the way back.? Felder will ship the slider with some plastic or MDF blocks shoved in the slider rails so that the slider doesn't shift during shipping.? On my K700S, I can lock the slider in the full-back position and the mid position.
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Aaron, I do agree with much of what you stated.? My machines all have star-delta start.? I plan on wiring my new setup with larger wire to the Phase Perfect in case I do need to move up to a larger unit with a wide belt. The graph below shows the capacity of the 10, 15 and 20hp PP units.? The 10hp PP can deliver 70 amps for 10 seconds and 50+ amps for 20 seconds.? The plate on my 15hp L'invincible shows a 33 amp load for 240v 3ph. I do not run a 3ph dust collector, so that does not impact these electrical demands from the PP.  ? Here is the stated performance from Phase Perfect:  YMMV, And agreed -call PP? They are great! PK
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I¡¯m running a split to 3 phase VFD on my dust collector for that very reason. However, the Profil 45z needs a phase converter. Felder no longer offers a 240v vfd option on the spindle motor.
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2002 KF700sp (see attached PDF for detail).
I bought new and it was my personal (hobby) saw for most of its life. ?Past few years I¡¯ve been building cabinets with it. ?I¡¯m getting out of plywood work so I¡¯m going to reclaim space and replace with a cabinet saw. ?
I played with the shaper when I first got it but only ended up using it as a saw (so all the shaper tooling is basically new, many unused at all). ?Similarly the power feeder.
I¡¯d like $11k all in (I¡¯d rather not sell the tooling or accessories individually. ?Reasonable offers considered for the package).
I¡¯ve got a 7.5HP rotary phase converter which isn¡¯t included. ?If it mattered I¡¯d sell it ($1k) but would rather not as I need it for my wide belt sander and would need to replace.
I took pictures of all the blades and cutters and will send to any interested parties but didn¡¯t include them in the PDF.
Located Bainbridge Island, WA
Thanks,
Mike (206-225-3022, ?call or txt)
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This is one of the arguments for running a
VFD per machine even if you have a 3-phase source. You can program the
start ramp.
Thursday,
July 20, 2023 11:25 AM
I
think the statement that you can "run a 15HP machine on a 10HP Phase
Perfect" should be taken with a grain of salt.? In most cases, this is
possible.? With the exception of a dust collector, most woodworking
machines will likely not pull "Full Load Amps" when running.? My 4HP
table saw only pulls 1100 watts when it's just spinning the blade.? If
you are pushing through some 12/4 hardwood, the amperage will be
significantly higher than 1100 watts and will likely reach the 3000 watt
"full load amps".? The actual amount of current being pulled by a
machine is dependent on the type of machine and how hard you are pushing
it.
PK says he can start his 15HP L'Vincible jointer/planer.? I
think it's mostly due to the star-delta starting mechanism that doesn't
make the motor attempt to pull "full starting amps" during ramp up.?
Other machines may have different reactions.? I think it's entirely
possible that the 15HP machine could trip some overload monitor on the
Phase Perfect if he tries to push through some 21" hardwood with a large
5mm cut.
I could be totally wrong here, but I would ask Phase
Perfect support if you really want to be sure.
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I think the statement that you can "run a 15HP machine on a 10HP Phase Perfect" should be taken with a grain of salt.? In most cases, this is possible.? With the exception of a dust collector, most woodworking machines will likely not pull "Full Load Amps" when running.? My 4HP table saw only pulls 1100 watts when it's just spinning the blade.? If you are pushing through some 12/4 hardwood, the amperage will be significantly higher than 1100 watts and will likely reach the 3000 watt "full load amps".? The actual amount of current being pulled by a machine is dependent on the type of machine and how hard you are pushing it.
PK says he can start his 15HP L'Vincible jointer/planer.? I think it's mostly due to the star-delta starting mechanism that doesn't make the motor attempt to pull "full starting amps" during ramp up.? Other machines may have different reactions.? I think it's entirely possible that the 15HP machine could trip some overload monitor on the Phase Perfect if he tries to push through some 21" hardwood with a large 5mm cut.
I could be totally wrong here, but I would ask Phase Perfect support if you really want to be sure.
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On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 11:13 AM Aaron Inami < ainami@...> wrote: I would check underneath your slider to make sure there isn't any material blocks in the sliders that would prevent you from pulling the slider all the way back.? Felder will ship the slider with some plastic or MDF blocks shoved in the slider rails so that the slider doesn't shift during shipping.? On my K700S, I can lock the slider in the full-back position and the mid position.
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I would check underneath your slider to make sure there isn't any material blocks in the sliders that would prevent you from pulling the slider all the way back.? Felder will ship the slider with some plastic or MDF blocks shoved in the slider rails so that the slider doesn't shift during shipping.? On my K700S, I can lock the slider in the full-back position and the mid position.
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Just needed a bump, sorry?
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Ed,
If you want to email me I can walk you through my setup.
For the 10hp PP you need an 80 amp breaker, 15hp PP is a 125 amp breaker and the 20hp is 160 amp (all of this is in PP's manual).? I did a din rail setup for breakers for my machines.? It works.? In my shop I am building now I will do a 3ph sub panel.
I mounted the PP outside, so the noise is not a big deal in the shop.? I do agree that the noise would not be bearable for my ears if it were in the shop.? I would opt for the quiet version if mounting outside was not an option.
I have my profil 45z x-motion (10hp) connected to it and other machines too, including a 15hp J/P.
PK
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Hi all just started with my brand new kf700sp doesn¡¯t appear that the slider locks in the rear position. Is this standard?
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I reached out to Phase Perfect a few weeks ago because I was considering making the jump to 3-phase.? Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it's worth the overall cost and investment (due to how much effort is needed for a full permit type install).? One of the things was noise of the PP, which is actually considerable:
I spoke in depth with Phase Perfect service on the noise produced by different generations and models.? I found out that they have a ¡°QT¡± option on their 10/20/30 HP Performance models.? This QT option adds another inductor to reduce the high frequency electrical buzz/noise and it is a $430 option.? If you are mounting this inside your shop, the QT option might be a good idea so that the PP noise is not as intrusive/offensive.
-Aaron
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My profile 45z finally made its way to the port. Hoping to get it delivered in the next month. In preparation, I need to get a Phase Perfect wired up since this is my first three phase machine. I was planning to buy the 20HP enterprise unit. The shaper is 13.5HP, so I could probably get away with the 10HP or 15HP unit. I might add a wide belt some day or a 4 head molder to support the sawmill side of my hobby, so the extra capacity would be nice.
Questions I have:
Is buying direct from Phase Technologies the best way to go from a price/support perspective? Or are there dealers with better pricing/support?
Regarding wiring, to keep things simple at first, I was going to mount the PP right next to my 200A panel and feed it with 4ga and a 60A breaker. Then pull a direct line of 8ga to the shaper (60¡¯) with a twist lock receptacle. I¡¯m wondering what¡¯s the easiest way to protect the output side. Would you have a 2¡¯ run of 8ga to a single DIN rail 3 phase 40A breaker, then the 60¡¯ run to the shaper? Or would you need to match the 4ga on the input side to the output side up to the 40A breaker, then 8ga post breaker? Any suggestions on a breaker/supplier I can get this from online? All advice welcome. Thanks.
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Agreed and blocks and. Good 2x4 will pop that thing up quick Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 18, 2023, at 12:22 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Could probably use any decent engine hoist and slings...
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Jul 18, 2023, at 7:22 AM, tomruth@... wrote:
Not sure if this would work in your case. You can lift fairly heavy things with those heavy duty, ratchet, cargo tie down straps. One method, to tip it on its side, might be to run some of those straps from the unit to the ceiling of your shop. You will need four of them as they will only coil up so far lifting in pairs. I lifted a 500 lb steel "I" beam to the ceiling of my garage with the same method. Hardest part would be making an attachment point on your ceiling for the straps if you don't have exposed ceiling rafters. The straps would also give you some security for getting under it to work on it. Tom Ruth
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Could probably use any decent engine hoist and slings...
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Jul 18, 2023, at 7:22 AM, tomruth@... wrote:
Not sure if this would work in your case. You can lift fairly heavy things with those heavy duty, ratchet, cargo tie down straps. One method, to tip it on its side, might be to run some of those straps from the unit to the ceiling of your shop. You will need four of them as they will only coil up so far lifting in pairs. I lifted a 500 lb steel "I" beam to the ceiling of my garage with the same method. Hardest part would be making an attachment point on your ceiling for the straps if you don't have exposed ceiling rafters. The straps would also give you some security for getting under it to work on it. Tom Ruth
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? Sounds right.? Just not sure what happens with the tipping and weight but cribbing with 4x4 or 6x6 would be the safest. Here is a picture of a motor exchange these are 6x6 shaper is 2500#? You can do same with a jack.
 Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 17, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Greg Mix <gregnmix@...> wrote:
?Dave. I did ask a Felder Tech. Answer: Rent a floor jack to tip it up and set it down on blocks just high enough to get my arms and shoulder under it to do the work. The work goes something like this. Removing four screws around the basket that attach it to the motor. The fan should fall out, then clean the shaft with acetone. Next press the replacement fan onto the shaft and tighten its two clamping screws as firmly as I possibly can. Wait 30 minutes for the plastic in the fan to adjust, add thread lock to the screws, and tighten again. With that done the basket has to be put back on, its screws reseated and tightened. How you do all that and get enough leverage to tighten everything without being able to see what you're doing is kind of beyond me. To say nothing of the risk of injury if something moves inconveniently. I was hoping for a way to get it up high enough to get into it safely but the options seem to be diminishing.?
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Not sure if this would work in your case. You can lift fairly heavy things with those heavy duty, ratchet, cargo tie down straps. One method, to tip it on its side, might be to run some of those straps from the unit to the ceiling of your shop. You will need four of them as they will only coil up so far lifting in pairs. I lifted a 500 lb steel "I" beam to the ceiling of my garage with the same method. Hardest part would be making an attachment point on your ceiling for the straps if you don't have exposed ceiling rafters. The straps would also give you some security for getting under it to work on it. Tom Ruth
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Thank you, I will check that out today.
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Dave. I did ask a Felder Tech. Answer: Rent a floor jack to tip it up and set it down on blocks just high enough to get my arms and shoulder under it to do the work. The work goes something like this. Removing four screws around the basket that attach it to the motor. The fan should fall out, then clean the shaft with acetone. Next press the replacement fan onto the shaft and tighten its two clamping screws as firmly as I possibly can. Wait 30 minutes for the plastic in the fan to adjust, add thread lock to the screws, and tighten again. With that done the basket has to be put back on, its screws reseated and tightened. How you do all that and get enough leverage to tighten everything without being able to see what you're doing is kind of beyond me. To say nothing of the risk of injury if something moves inconveniently. I was hoping for a way to get it up high enough to get into it safely but the options seem to be diminishing.?
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Dave i think that is the best method .
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax
instagram.com/maccampshure/
Designing and building for 50 years
On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 09:53:47 PM CDT, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
Maybe ask a Felder tech how best to make the swap. Dave Davies
I haven¡¯t done this on the new style. The old style from memory it sat on the body and not the table .? So I would be cautious tipping at an angle. Secure blocking might be safer lifting with pry bar and block a stout pice of hardwood for prying up or use toe jacks or auto lift jack just make sure you block securely you will need 4x4 to crib.? Designing and building for 50 years ?Wade, Yes it has Felder's standard warranty and they say it's expired. Regardless, that they sell a machine with inaccessible parts that fall off and then want to charge me to repair it is a bit much. That's as politely as I can say it.? ? Mac, You're right, easy repair, it's just getting to it. Since you've done it, a few questions please. See attached sketch does it show what you did? I checked and if it goes all the way to rest on the table 60 degrees is about right. 1) How did you physically tip it, lever it up, a jack, ??? Any problems lowering it back down gently?? 2) Did you rest it on the end of the table or somehow support it against the cabinet before it got that far? 3) Since the front and back panels aren't the same length it's going to sit cockeyed against just one corner of the table. Any problem with it balancing? 4) How badly was it out of alignment once you finished?
<AD741 Motor Access.pdf>
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PK