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Re: VIP Program from Felder
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýNot sure if you would be interested in picking up from Dallas. If so call your rep and tell him that. You shoukd be place your order via phone and take advantage of the 10% (i hope). Imran On Dec 31, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Larry <larry@...> wrote:
?I had hemmed and hawed about buying a FAT 300 and decided I would order it today. Got most of the way through the process and was ready to order until I noticed that it was going to cost $500 to ship it. My 800# lathe was just a little more than that and it was shipped from Wisconsin...my guess is that the FAT 300 will be shipped from Dallas (I live in the Houston area).?
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Re: VIP Program from Felder
Since I've had my fat 300,and the salesman had to talk me into it, I've been overjoyed at what it does for you from taking the outrigger off, or sheets of ply off the back of a pickup right up to the saw. Awesome machine whatever the cost. Bill B¨¦langer On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:05 PM Larry <larry@...> wrote: I had hemmed and hawed about buying a FAT 300 and decided I would order it today. Got most of the way through the process and was ready to order until I noticed that it was going to cost $500 to ship it. My 800# lathe was just a little more than that and it was shipped from Wisconsin...my guess is that the FAT 300 will be shipped from Dallas (I live in the Houston area).? |
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Re: VIP Program from Felder
I had hemmed and hawed about buying a FAT 300 and decided I would order it today. Got most of the way through the process and was ready to order until I noticed that it was going to cost $500 to ship it. My 800# lathe was just a little more than that and it was shipped from Wisconsin...my guess is that the FAT 300 will be shipped from Dallas (I live in the Houston area).?
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Re: Dealing with woodworking machine companies - Harvey
to add to that drift, Cliff, I love it that GM went to stainless steel exhaust system back in 90s. My first car in USA was a new 1984 Toyota Celica. I drove short distances so muffler lasted maybe 3yrs. I had it replaced by Midas with life time warranty and definitely got my money¡¯s worth as I was probably on the 3rd or 4th muffler. Some pipe and hangers were replaced as well in the 14 yrs i had the car. Since then i have had 4 GM vehicles and none needed anything replaced on the exhaust. Owned S10 truck for 12 yrs and 03¡¯ & ¡®09 avalanches are still going ?
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Imran On Dec 31, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. <rohrabacher@...> wrote:
? On 12/30/20 10:19 PM, TJ Cornish wrote: whole point of an electric car is efficiency. If the charger HHAHAHAHA I remember in the s FORD did a survey on the cost to produce a stainless steel exhaust. They concluded that it'd be something like $120 more at retail to do so and nixed the idea. Car manufacturers will kill to save a nickel. |
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
Tip speed is most critical.? Feed speed can compensate for fast tip speed but not slow.? Number of flutes helps the cuts per inch but doesn't help when the tip speed slow other than potentially having each flute take less cut.? My experience with the 15K limit
on the Felder is that core box and cove bits give me the most problem as speed is slow and a fair amount of stock needs to be removed.? I run those bits at 23K but most others seem to work at the 15K range.? Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 12:21 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ?
Hi Joe, ? I did not post because I did not think I good useable info but here it is anyways. ? I choose b=100 because it has lines for the smallest cutter dia on all 4 plots. So I replotted b=100 lines from 4 diff graphs onto a single graph. Then I extrapolated for smaller spindle dia of 10mm & 20mm. Then extrapolated for cutter dia less than 100mm. So now we have this: ?
? However, 4¡± (100mm) is not a realistic cutting edge for a router bit. I thought anymore extrapolation (which would move 10mm & 20mm curves in NE direction) would likely be not valid. If Felder provided more data (for smaller cutter dia) for b=10 in their plots then it would be a more appropriate to repeat the above exercise. ? Here is the data for above graph
? Imran ?
From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Joe Jensen ? Number of flutes is important too. ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io ? would be interesting to put the data points from the 4 graphs to see if the relationship is linear. If so we can easily extrapolate if fir router use. ? Imran
? My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg> ? ? lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage. ? There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg> ? ? I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle? ? Imran
? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJust noted, Graph should say ¡°Extrapolated RPM for below 125mm Cutter Diameters) ? Imran ? From: [email protected] On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 12:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? Hi Joe, ? I did not post because I did not think I good useable info but here it is anyways. ? I choose b=100 because it has lines for the smallest cutter dia on all 4 plots. So I replotted b=100 lines from 4 diff graphs onto a single graph. Then I extrapolated for smaller spindle dia of 10mm & 20mm. Then extrapolated for cutter dia less than 100mm. So now we have this: ? ? However, 4¡± (100mm) is not a realistic cutting edge for a router bit. I thought anymore extrapolation (which would move 10mm & 20mm curves in NE direction) would likely be not valid. If Felder provided more data (for smaller cutter dia) for b=10 in their plots then it would be a more appropriate to repeat the above exercise. ? Here is the data for above graph ? Imran ? From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Joe Jensen ? Number of flutes is important too. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io ? would be interesting to put the data points from the 4 graphs to see if the relationship is linear. If so we can easily extrapolate if fir router use. ? Imran
? My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg> ? ? lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage. ? There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg> ? ? I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle? ? Imran
? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Joe, ? I did not post because I did not think I good useable info but here it is anyways. ? I choose b=100 because it has lines for the smallest cutter dia on all 4 plots. So I replotted b=100 lines from 4 diff graphs onto a single graph. Then I extrapolated for smaller spindle dia of 10mm & 20mm. Then extrapolated for cutter dia less than 100mm. So now we have this: ? ? However, 4¡± (100mm) is not a realistic cutting edge for a router bit. I thought anymore extrapolation (which would move 10mm & 20mm curves in NE direction) would likely be not valid. If Felder provided more data (for smaller cutter dia) for b=10 in their plots then it would be a more appropriate to repeat the above exercise. ? Here is the data for above graph ? Imran ? From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Joe Jensen
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 11:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? Number of flutes is important too. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io ? would be interesting to put the data points from the 4 graphs to see if the relationship is linear. If so we can easily extrapolate if fir router use. ? Imran
? My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg> ? ? lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage. ? There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg> ? ? I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle? ? Imran
? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýNumber of flutes is important too. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 10:42 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? would be interesting to put the data points from the 4 graphs to see if the relationship is linear. If so we can easily extrapolate if fir router use. ? Imran
? My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg> ? ? lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage. ? There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg> ? ? I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle? ? Imran
? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Last day to save 10% on Felder Accessories
VIP
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On Dec 31, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Mike Barrow via groups.io <lunatuna23@...> wrote:
?Imran, do you recall the discount code? Thanks! Mike Barrow On Dec 31, 2020, at 7:13 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: -- Mike Barrow |
imran
Bill Belanger
Larry
Joe Jensen