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Tilting shaper ideas

Geoff Shepherd
 

Hi Group... here's an idea I wanted to try on the tilting shaper using the
high-speed spindle - sliding dovetails. Usually a sliding dovetail is done
in two steps, one to mill the dovetail groove, and a second to mill the
dovetail "tongue", say in the end of a shelf or partition of a box or
cabinet.

When milling the dovetail tongue, the procedure I've alway seen is to stand
the piece up on end and guide it against the router table fence with the
dovetail bit partially exposed. Flip the piece over and repeat to create the
full tail.

I found an alternative to standing the work up on end is the following: tilt
the router spindle to the exact angle of the dovetail bit, then you can
guide the work flat on the table, even using the sliding table if you
prefer. The catch is that the dovetail depth is limited to the maximum width
of the dovetail bit, but this may be acceptable for many situations. As
before, you still have to make two passes to mill the tongues.

Tilting the bit precisely is really easy to do just by counting the crank
revolutions. For my 14-degree bit, it's seven crank revs. In my practice
setup, I milled the slot first, then measured the depth and narrow width
using a digital sliding calipers. This provided measurements for setting the
bit height and exposure. Exposure is the same as the slot depth. Height is:
(stock thickness - narrow width) / 2 ... this gives a good starting point
from which to fine-tune the adjustments, but given either plain luck or the
accuracy of the Felder system, my first try was exactly on (working in
metric made this whole test even easier).

I also played around with the tilting shaper and my existing router bit
collection. I found a very nice profile suitable for small picture frames
can be produced with my Porter-Cable "Traditional" profile bit tilted back
to 30-degrees, followed by a little clean-up with a 1/8" round-over at
0-degrees. Since the fancy bit I used creates a more-or-less 45-degree
profile on an edge, tilting to 30-degrees changes this to essentially a
15-degree profile. Comparing side-by-side it is hard to believe the same bit
made the new profile.

..Geoff
March Special

Wolfgang Geiger
 

Hi guys,

The new monthly special is now uploaded. I hope I picked the right mix
for you.

Wolfgang
FELDER USA
BF6 Dovetails Figured Out

Geoff Shepherd
 

Thanks to John Hartshorne's over-the-phone advice, I was able to get the
system-format aluminum extension table perfectly aligned with the dovetail
coupling system on my BF6-31. Using my parallel fence as a straight-edge
and a set of feeler gauges, I was able to get the extension aligned to
within .002". Not bad. Third time's the charm, right?

So, my theory of slightly different dovetail angles was all for naught.

I used a jig on my stationary belt sander to grind the adjustment bolt heads
flat and square. I lubricated the threads and washers of the clamping levers
with a bit of beeswax (before there was anti-seize compound, there were busy
bees). Then I followed John's procedure to start with the lower bolts first
and only bring the upper bolts into play last. In a way, it is like getting
all four legs of a table exactly the same length... if one of the bolts is
in or out too far in relation to the other three, the table does
not align well and will rock up and down. With the table aligned, I can
actually feel/hear a satisfying "thunk" sound as the bolt heads engage the
dovetail face simultaneously. I was also surprised at how much weight this
system can take without deflecting.

..Geoff
Re: Voting Results: Cutting Dados

Mark Rupersburg
 

Geoff Shepherd wrote:

Well, we're officially at 40 members.

I closed the poll for the dado survey, and the web site sent out a results
message that isn't terribly clear... the number after each option is the
number of votes received. So, it looks like "Other" wins, and a tie between
the high-speed spindle with straight bits vs. just using a hand-held router.
I suspect "Other" for most people probably means another table saw... or
maybe a dado plane (or that CNC milling machine in the corner, used just for
dados of course). :-)
It may be that some keep a Unisaw used just for dados and big, ugly ripping. My shop
isn't big enough to 2 saws -- unlike some in the PHL area ;-)

Last year I hand dug 90 cubic yards for an exterior entrance to my basement shop. Next
year I'm getting a backhoe to increase the size of my basement by 12 x 15 so I have
room for more tools.

It still won't be large enough for 2 saw, so I'll have to cut dados some other way.
BTW, you don't need a CNC machine to cut dados. A manual mill works just fine.

Best regards,

Mark Rupersburg


So - who is the voter using Hersaf bits? I was thinking of giving these a
try, but would like to hear more from someone using them. I would also like
to give spiral bits a try, but wow are they expensive!

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: eGroups.com Poll Results <geoff@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 12:33 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Voting Results: Cutting Dados

Here are the results of the vote:

1. H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits 1
2. Multiple passes with saw blade 1
3. Slotting cutter in shaper 1
4. H.S. spindle, spiral bits 3
5. Hand-held router 4
6. High-speed spindle, straight bits 4
7. Other 6
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Re: Kay Phasemaster Question

Mark Rupersburg
 

Geoff;

This sounds (get it?) like a question for the manufacturer.? It seems like anything that was exposed to a? shop environment could be crudded up.? Maybe Kay has a? LN option -- like on your dust collector ;-)

Mark

Geoff Shepherd wrote:

Hi all,

When I start up my Kay MA-1 Phasemaster, it sounds like it has bad bearings
(whining) until it warms up a bit. This unit was never used, but sat for two
years on its pallet before I purchased it with the BF6-31 and AF-22 from
Mike Simpson in Oregon.

Does this model have grease fittings? Should I go get a grease gun and the
recommended lubricant (Chevron SRI) and try lubing up the bearings? Or do
they all do this?

The temp in my shop these days is about 60F give or take.

Also - thanks to Felder USA for footing the bill on the "No Ads" option for
our group... the advertising at the bottom of our messages and the banner
ads on our group site have been eliminated.

..Geoff

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Kay Phasemaster Question

Geoff Shepherd
 

Hi all,

When I start up my Kay MA-1 Phasemaster, it sounds like it has bad bearings
(whining) until it warms up a bit. This unit was never used, but sat for two
years on its pallet before I purchased it with the BF6-31 and AF-22 from
Mike Simpson in Oregon.

Does this model have grease fittings? Should I go get a grease gun and the
recommended lubricant (Chevron SRI) and try lubing up the bearings? Or do
they all do this?

The temp in my shop these days is about 60F give or take.

Also - thanks to Felder USA for footing the bill on the "No Ads" option for
our group... the advertising at the bottom of our messages and the banner
ads on our group site have been eliminated.

..Geoff
Re: Voting Results: Cutting Dados

Geoff Shepherd
 

Well, we're officially at 40 members.

I closed the poll for the dado survey, and the web site sent out a results
message that isn't terribly clear... the number after each option is the
number of votes received. So, it looks like "Other" wins, and a tie between
the high-speed spindle with straight bits vs. just using a hand-held router.
I suspect "Other" for most people probably means another table saw... or
maybe a dado plane (or that CNC milling machine in the corner, used just for
dados of course). :-)

So - who is the voter using Hersaf bits? I was thinking of giving these a
try, but would like to hear more from someone using them. I would also like
to give spiral bits a try, but wow are they expensive!

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: eGroups.com Poll Results <geoff@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 12:33 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Voting Results: Cutting Dados


Here are the results of the vote:

1. H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits 1
2. Multiple passes with saw blade 1
3. Slotting cutter in shaper 1
4. H.S. spindle, spiral bits 3
5. Hand-held router 4
6. High-speed spindle, straight bits 4
7. Other 6
Voting Results: Cutting Dados

eGroups.com Poll Results
 

Here are the results of the vote:

1. H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits 1
2. Multiple passes with saw blade 1
3. Slotting cutter in shaper 1
4. H.S. spindle, spiral bits 3
5. Hand-held router 4
6. High-speed spindle, straight bits 4
7. Other 6
Re: Shaper spindle

David DeCristoforo
 

Seth
Actually, you should have BOTH spindles. The 1.25" is a standard U.S. size and the 30mm
is a standard Euro (metric) size. Most U.S. made cutters will only be offered in 1.25"
or 3/4" whereas the Euro tooling will be 20 or 30mm. Having a 1.25" and a 30mm will
give you the most flexibility.
David DeCristoforo

"Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)" wrote:

This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth

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Re: Shaper spindle

John Renzetti
 

I usually recommend that new owners get the 30mm spindle with the shaper,
unless they already own a number of 1.25" cutters. The 30mm cutters are
available from a number of US manufacturers or US offices of European
manufacturers. However, the best prices are the Leitz cutters that Felder
USA sells. I think Charlie Norton did a price comparison between Felder and
LeitzUSA and Felder was much less expensive. Felder is starting to sell some
1.25" cutters but these cost a little more than the 30mm.
I don't think you'd ever need the 40 or 50mm bore cutters unless you
were into some heavy duty continuous manufacturing of large moldings or
window and door frames. The Felder catalog lists one set of cutters at 40mm
for window and door manufacturing. This set runs almost $4000.
Sometime soon the new year 2000 catalog will be available in English. In
the meantime usually most of the normal cutters available that are in the
big Leitz Lexicon can be acquired through FelderUSA. For something really
special, SS Schmidt in NJ, will make up anything you can think of. They did
this for a huge cutterhead for Mike Simmons(Geoff Shepherd bought his
BF6-31) From what I understand this cutter was about 5" high and 8" in
diameter.
Take care,
John Renzetti

----- Original Message -----
From: dolsid <dolsid@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 1:37 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Shaper spindle


Seth: I am in the same boat. I didn't know "come here from sic'em" about
shapers I ordered an 1.25 inch spindle assuming that is was a US standard
and found Felder did do that size of cutters. I hit the net and found
several suppliers in the States so will probably shop here. If I find
that
I "must have" a Felder cutter will pony up for a 30mm since I understand
it
is a standard in Europe and that the 40mm is used when spindle deflection
is
a potential problem. I assume that a larger motor would be in order for
the
heavier duty cutters that would go on the 40mm.-----
Re: Stop nuts on cross-cut fence

APGAR, Lee, GCM
 

jeff-- I somehow got signed up twice for the group and am getting two
copies of every msg. Could you please delete one of my entries? Thanks.
My email is lee@....

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [mailto:geoff@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 1:38 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Stop nuts on cross-cut fence


Oh well - and I thought I was on to something truly clever... turns out the
tip about the stop nuts for automatically aligning the cross-cut fence only
works on the fence for the outrigger table. The regular cross-cut fence
doesn't provide enough lateral adjustment to compensate for the difference
in the stop scale at 45 degrees vs. 90. For that one, it looks like I
either
have to mark and measure manually when cutting at 45 degrees, or add about
54 mm to the desired length and set the stop to that (not a big hassel, but
prone to error).

...Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:17 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Stop nuts on cross-cut fence


Maybe I missed it in the manual, but I *think* I figured out the
intended use for two stop nuts in the T-track on the back side of the
cross-cut fence, at least as indicated in the assembly sheet that comes
with the it.

One stop goes on the blade-side of the aluminum clamp block (the one
that acts as a pivot for the fence), and this stop nut is set so the
fence rule is in accurate for 90-degree cross-cuts. The second stop nut
goes on the other side of the same aluminum clamping clamping block
(between the two clamp blocks actually). This stop nut is set to align
the fence rule to be accurate for 45-degree miter cuts. So to get
accurate length readings for 90 or 45-degree cuts, you just slide the
fence to the stop left or right while adjusting the angle. For
in-between angles, it will be off the mark.

The only unforunate part of using the second stop nut like this is that
it traps the one clamp block on that side of the fence, so moving the
fence to the rear position for wide cross-cuts would require loosing
that setting. A scribe or pencil mark could save the setting in the
mean time. Actually, I suppose there could be a full 45-90-45 lateral
degree scale on the back between the stops, but it might vary from
machine-to-machine depending on how close the user has set the fence to
the blade during initial setup.

Then again, most people probably just use a chop saw. :-)

..Geoff
(Too much coffee == too much thinking)


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Re: Stop nuts on cross-cut fence

Geoff Shepherd
 

Oh well - and I thought I was on to something truly clever... turns out the
tip about the stop nuts for automatically aligning the cross-cut fence only
works on the fence for the outrigger table. The regular cross-cut fence
doesn't provide enough lateral adjustment to compensate for the difference
in the stop scale at 45 degrees vs. 90. For that one, it looks like I either
have to mark and measure manually when cutting at 45 degrees, or add about
54 mm to the desired length and set the stop to that (not a big hassel, but
prone to error).

...Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:17 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Stop nuts on cross-cut fence


Maybe I missed it in the manual, but I *think* I figured out the
intended use for two stop nuts in the T-track on the back side of the
cross-cut fence, at least as indicated in the assembly sheet that comes
with the it.

One stop goes on the blade-side of the aluminum clamp block (the one
that acts as a pivot for the fence), and this stop nut is set so the
fence rule is in accurate for 90-degree cross-cuts. The second stop nut
goes on the other side of the same aluminum clamping clamping block
(between the two clamp blocks actually). This stop nut is set to align
the fence rule to be accurate for 45-degree miter cuts. So to get
accurate length readings for 90 or 45-degree cuts, you just slide the
fence to the stop left or right while adjusting the angle. For
in-between angles, it will be off the mark.

The only unforunate part of using the second stop nut like this is that
it traps the one clamp block on that side of the fence, so moving the
fence to the rear position for wide cross-cuts would require loosing
that setting. A scribe or pencil mark could save the setting in the
mean time. Actually, I suppose there could be a full 45-90-45 lateral
degree scale on the back between the stops, but it might vary from
machine-to-machine depending on how close the user has set the fence to
the blade during initial setup.

Then again, most people probably just use a chop saw. :-)

..Geoff
(Too much coffee == too much thinking)
Re: Shaper spindle

dolsid
 

Seth: I am in the same boat. I didn't know "come here from sic'em" about
shapers I ordered an 1.25 inch spindle assuming that is was a US standard
and found Felder did do that size of cutters. I hit the net and found
several suppliers in the States so will probably shop here. If I find that
I "must have" a Felder cutter will pony up for a 30mm since I understand it
is a standard in Europe and that the 40mm is used when spindle deflection is
a potential problem. I assume that a larger motor would be in order for the

heavier duty cutters that would go on the 40mm.----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)" <sdhoneyman@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 1:07 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Shaper spindle


This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth


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Re: POLL: Cutting Dados

dolsid
 

I use a straight bit on the router with the Felder, also use a straight bit
on a router table, I am in the process of trying to get a dado option
running on the Felder but have a backup of using a regular dado set on a

Delta table saw in another shop. --- Original Message -----
From: <geoff@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 1:57 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] POLL: Cutting Dados


Given that the Felder machines do not normally accept a stacked dado blade
set, what are your favorite/usual methods of milling dados?

----

Please select one or more of the following:

o High-speed spindle, straight bits
o H.S. spindle, spiral bits
o H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits
o Slotting cutter in shaper
o Multiple passes with saw blade
o Modified dado set
o Hand-held router
o Other


by going to the following Web form:



Thank you!


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Dado cutting poll reminder...

Geoff Shepherd
 

I see we have a few new members to the group - welcome!

Just a reminder - there is an informal survey in progress on cutting
dados with (or without) Felder equipment. If you haven't cast your vote
yet, visit:



I'll close the poll and forward the results to the list in a few days
or so. So get your vote in while you can.

Any of us can start a new survey - please feel free to do so... good
topics might be most-used shaper spindle size, or favorite saw blade.
To start a new survey, use the following link:




..Geoff (list manager)
Re: Shaper spindle

Geoff Shepherd
 

I have three spindles that came with my used BF6-31: 30mm, 1 1/4", and
router. I plan to sell the 1 1/4" to a friend who has a need for it, and
I'll just be sure to order 30mm cutters as I build my own collection. I
understand some of the heavier-duty cutters (slotting?) use a 40mm bore.
From what I've seen, Felder offers quite a good selection of tooling in both
their regular and Hammer lines at attractive pricing.

I too will soon order the monthly special, and also have on my wish list the
slotting cutter, and universal head. Eventually I would like to give a
serious go at making my own entry doors and window sashes for restoring my
1915 Bungalow.

John recycled some electrons thusly:
KF7F, AD7-41, AF22(unlike Geoff's, it's the very very loud version)
John - I think they gave you the jet powered version because being a pilot,
you would appreciate it more. ;-)

...Geoff
Re: Shaper spindle

John Renzetti
 

hi Seth, I think you should not only get to swap your 1 1/4" spindle for
a 30mm, but you should also get some money to spend on cutters. The 1 1/4"
spindle lists for $330, while the 30mm lists for $220. The 30mm is sometimes
on sale from the factory.
I would get the 30mm spindle. In doing some research on various shaper
manufacturers I found that Felder sells top quality Leitz of Germany cutters
for a lot less than Leitz does. You could also get some of the Hammer
cutters, which are made of aircraft aluminum instead of the Felder Tool
Steel. A good starting point on shaper cutters would be the rebate head and
then the universal cutterhead set with I believe 7 profiles. This is on sale
now for about $179. There are about 90 different profiles available. Also
recommend the adjustable slotting cutter. From there you can add the cope
and stick and the panel raisers.
Talk to you later,
John Renzetti
KF7F, AD7-41, AF22(unlike Geoff's, it's the very very loud version)

----- Original Message -----
From: Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York) <sdhoneyman@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 2:07 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Shaper spindle


This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth


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Re: Shaper spindle

Philip Tamarkin
 

...I've got 'em both, and, so far, haven't used either...keep in mind that you can
always bush 30mm to 1 1/4" if needed, also the 30mm will fit the saw blades for
slotting. Most major tooling houses offer both bores now, so tooling isn't much of an
issue...-Philip Tamarkin

"Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)" wrote:

This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth

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Shaper spindle

Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)
 

This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth
Stop nuts on cross-cut fence

Geoff Shepherd
 

Maybe I missed it in the manual, but I *think* I figured out the
intended use for two stop nuts in the T-track on the back side of the
cross-cut fence, at least as indicated in the assembly sheet that comes
with the it.

One stop goes on the blade-side of the aluminum clamp block (the one
that acts as a pivot for the fence), and this stop nut is set so the
fence rule is in accurate for 90-degree cross-cuts. The second stop nut
goes on the other side of the same aluminum clamping clamping block
(between the two clamp blocks actually). This stop nut is set to align
the fence rule to be accurate for 45-degree miter cuts. So to get
accurate length readings for 90 or 45-degree cuts, you just slide the
fence to the stop left or right while adjusting the angle. For
in-between angles, it will be off the mark.

The only unforunate part of using the second stop nut like this is that
it traps the one clamp block on that side of the fence, so moving the
fence to the rear position for wide cross-cuts would require loosing
that setting. A scribe or pencil mark could save the setting in the
mean time. Actually, I suppose there could be a full 45-90-45 lateral
degree scale on the back between the stops, but it might vary from
machine-to-machine depending on how close the user has set the fence to
the blade during initial setup.

Then again, most people probably just use a chop saw. :-)

..Geoff
(Too much coffee == too much thinking)
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