开云体育

This is the first time I've looked at www.surpluscenter.com and its the first time they didn't have a Gast vacuum pump suitable for veneering for under $100...joe

I purchased a Gast rotary vane pump years ago from Surplus Center online for $60 and it was clearly new old stock. I took it to a local distributor to get a check valve, filter, and some other stuff and the own said he knew that pump was built for IBM for a computer system and it was built for continuous duty for 20 years. He said IBM's bulk pricing was around $800. I've recommended to several folks Surplus Center for vacuum pumps as they usually have surplus Gast pumps. The last few times I've looked there they only had 220V pumps. There are also always many Gast pumps on Ebay. Mine is 3/4HP and draws my vacuum bag down quickly...joe

Well , checking the Swahili to English dictionary - I think Glanz means
glisten.

So I guess you are right on all counts - that being a surfactant/ acid to
strip rust.

Guess there idea of keeping metal looking nice.



_____

From: felder-woodworking@...
[mailto:felder-woodworking@...] On Behalf Of Cliff Rohrabacher,
Esq
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:39 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: metal glanz MSDS any one?






In a Felder PDF on planer maintained they say to clean metal parts like
the threads on the table riser with the stuff ( in the alternate the PDF
says diesel works too)
The alcohol is a surfactant soluble in water and oils
The Amides, coco, N,N-bis(hydroxyethyl), is a coconut oil product
The Phosphoric acid might be to strip rust???

I can't say for sure if Metallglanz is the same as the Felder product
Metal Glanz
The MSDS seems awfully incomplete.

On 5/9/2012 5:21 PM, Blair Bucciarelli wrote:

Cliff,



Can't find the original post on Metal Glanz and need a refesh of what

Metal

Glaze is used for.





Blair



_____

From: felder-woodworking@...

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:felder-woodworking@...

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Cliff
Rohrabacher,

Esq
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:12 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com>

Cc: offaces@... <mailto:offaces%40yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: metal glanz MSDS any one?





Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for.

On 5/9/2012 11:38 AM, offaces@... <mailto:offaces%40yahoo.com>

<mailto:offaces%40yahoo.com> wrote:

Cliff,

I too couldn't find anything on the Felder labeled Metal Glanz, but found

it under several other labels. It appears to be a product produced by
HAGLEITNER.

datasheet here:

f

Hope this helps,

Lance

--- In felder-woodworking@...

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com> , "Cliff Rohrabacher,
Esq"<rohrabacher@...> wrote:

I've never seen one. Has any one one seen one?
Can't find one on Felder's site.

------------------------------------

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! Groups Links

_____

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4987 - Release Date: 05/09/12







------------------------------------

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4987 - Release Date: 05/09/12

And then there's this:

Also a Metall Glanz product

Here is the Planer maintenance PDF

In it Felder, spells it with one L, while in other places they use two Ls

In a Felder PDF on planer maintained they say to clean metal parts like the threads on the table riser with the stuff ( in the alternate the PDF says diesel works too)
The alcohol is a surfactant soluble in water and oils
The Amides, coco, N,N-bis(hydroxyethyl), is a coconut oil product
The Phosphoric acid might be to strip rust???

I can't say for sure if Metallglanz is the same as the Felder product Metal Glanz
The MSDS seems awfully incomplete.

Cliff,



Can't find the original post on Metal Glanz and need a refesh of what Metal
Glaze is used for.





Blair



_____

From: felder-woodworking@...
[mailto:felder-woodworking@...] On Behalf Of Cliff Rohrabacher,
Esq
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:12 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Cc: offaces@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: metal glanz MSDS any one?





Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for.

On 5/9/2012 11:38 AM, offaces@... <mailto:offaces%40yahoo.com> wrote:

Cliff,

I too couldn't find anything on the Felder labeled Metal Glanz, but found

it under several other labels. It appears to be a product produced by
HAGLEITNER.

datasheet here:

f

Hope this helps,

Lance

--- In felder-woodworking@...

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com> , "Cliff Rohrabacher,
Esq"<rohrabacher@...> wrote:

I've never seen one. Has any one one seen one?
Can't find one on Felder's site.

------------------------------------

To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@...

<mailto:felder-woodworking%40yahoogroups.com>

Visit the group web site:

Visit the FOG photo library at

FOG Amazon link: - Support the FOG with purchases at Amazon.
! Groups Links

_____

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4987 - Release Date: 05/09/12

Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for.

I have a never-used brand new when I got it, twin stage rotary vein Sargent Welsh high performance vacuum pump that I've been letting sit idle for years while I dither with ideas like that one as well as vacuum veneering.

Hi Gerald,
You don't have to worry about the threat from Rangate. I requested the rate for Vaccukar and received the same rate sheet from them. So they are offering the same price to anybody willing to buy from them.
I believe they should thank you for putting them on map and generating lot of interest in their expensive products. Anyway I don't think with this price, anybody will be buying from them anytime soon.



________________________________
From: Gerald Ortman <gto@...>
To: felder-woodworking@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Vakuucar


?
Please note that the Vakuucar prices given do not include a vacuum source.
In their videos they run it off of a shopvac.

As far as making one it would depend on exactly what one wanted. Most of the
functionality shown in the company videos could be achieved with a vacuum
hold down pad on a 'stick' held in a bench vise... You can mount that vise
on a roller cart etcetera, however 90% of what is shown in the Vakuucar
videos is how convenient it is to have a panel or rail held by one face
only, without anything obstructing the edges, so that one can sand, route,
apply edge banding and such unobstructed, and with the ability to change
workpiece by treading on a vacuum release valve, and then swapping
workpieces. There are a number of companies out there that I found in a
casual web search that have one to four vacuum pods held in a framework of
varying complexity. With tubing, tubing clamps and handles (to turn the
tubing clamps into fast action fittings that allow rotational and/or linear
motion) it is easy to assemble vacuum fixtures with 1, 2, 3, 4 or more axis
of rotation.

Duplicating the Vacuucar from components obviously requires machining the
two pair of end plates, which could be done with a drill press and a jigsaw
(although a milling machine or a CNC mill would make a very quick job of
it... however does the Vakuucar represent what you need? All it is is one
particular configuration of a cart bench with vacuum pucks. I have already
worked out a design that does what I want much better... for my needs. (I
have been looking at industrial suppliers' catalogues of all US and European
parts...no junk)

The add on feature of a panel lifter, I suppose would be worth having if you
buy the cart, however you can get lots of roll around panel lifters. There
is a really sweet one which has a frame with four vacuum pods attached to a
small electric hoist, which in turn is attached to an overhead gantry.

Good woodworking to all

Gerald

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lamb
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:17 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Vakuucar

Depends upon what you are willing to scrounge... I picked up a nice Cenco
Hyvac 7 vacuum pump the other day for next to nothing. I need some vacuum
fixturing for specific parts on my mill, and maybe the Felder. If you had to
go buy new, the same pump is over $1700, so I could see prices getting out
of hand real quick.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
Weimaraner Rescue of Arizona
www.vswc.weimaraner.com click on "rescue dogs"

On May 8, 2012, at 12:04 PM, David Kumm wrote:

Jon and Brian, I have to wonder if after it is all figured out, sourced,
and put together if we wouldn't find out that it would still run pretty
high- unless we could sell a million of them.. Dave

To: felder-woodworking@...
From: blamb11@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:53:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Vakuucar

Jon,

I can't keep up with the projects I have in the cue already.... But I do
agree, an enterprising sort with some 8020 extrusions, a vacuum pump and
some of the off the shelf vacuum pods available for CNC routers ought to
be able to whip something together pretty easily.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
Weimaraner Rescue of Arizona
www.vswc.weimaraner.com click on "rescue dogs"



On May 8, 2012, at 9:37 AM, jonrael wrote:

I would be interested in the vacuu syst, however with all the "off the
shelf" parts and existing metal working talent we have here, couldn't
we come up with a FOG version? Brian...Mac...?

--- In felder-woodworking@..., "John Renzetti"
<jrenzetti1@...> wrote:

Hi Gerald, Thanks for finding out that info. Although I'm not sure
how much
I should be thanking you since the basic model is doable but one
with all
the trimmings gives me pause. We went in opposite directions back in
1969,
actually in September 1968 when I was going into my senior year. I
bought a
new Pontiac GTO "Judge", 4 on the floor, about 400HP and about
9miles/gal.
Al Gore would not have been happy. But since I knew I was going to
Vietnam
about a year after graduation I figured I might have a nice car
while in
Officers Basic and Flight School. Should have never sold that thing.
I saw
an auction where the Judge fetched about $80k.
Take care,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: felder-woodworking@...
[mailto:felder-woodworking@...] On Behalf Of Gerald
Ortman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:24 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Vakuucar

FYI- Those interested. Received prices on Vakuucar system from
Rangate. See

below:

"Hello Gerald, thank you for requesting additional information on
our Barth

equipment. Here are the prices on the VakuuSyst and VakuuCar >and
related
options.

We do have special pricing on this container if you are interested.
It
maybe a little tight for time but maybe it is something you can do.

Part # Description
Price Special June container

BV-04 VakuuSyst ECO
$ 2695.00 $ 2185.00

BV-05 VakuuSyst
$ 2895.00 $ 2695.00

BV-08 VakuuCar +
$ 6695.00 $ 5425.00

BV-20 VakuuCar + with height adjustment hdl $ 7795.00
$ 6300.00

Options

BV-08-03TV Vakuum-oval suction cup incl touch val $

425.00

BV-08-04TV Vakuum-round suction cup incl touch $

475.00

BV-07-55-03 Castor with brake (per pcs)
$ 75.00

BV-08-05 Vakuum-oval suct cup extra small/support $
380.00

BV-08-06 Vakuum-oval suct cup extra small as 3rd station $
455.00

BV-08-53 Extension Tube 400 x 40
$ 94.00

BV-08-54 Clamping element K40 with Clamping lever $
75.00

BV-08-72 Spindle Clamp
$ 220.00

BV-08-82 Swing frame for panels (only VakuumCar + $
895.00

Gerald, we will be closing our June container in 3 weeks."

I am still intrigued by the product, very much so, more as a work
holder
than as a panel lifter, however I do note the cost. I have two
problems.
First the great majority of the components appear to be off the
shelf tubing

clamps, levers, casters and vacuum pods, which are, all in all, not
very
expensive items.... the two pair of endplates are the only major
"engineered" items and they are flat plates about 16 by 24 with two
slots,
two lines of holes and minor edge shaping. (A couple of CNC
machining
minutes I should imagine.)...However... It totals out to somewhere
between 6

and 8 grand by the time the cart is outfitted, (and presumably w/o
domestic
shipping), and as my friend Dennis used to say "that is a bit
salty". {The
second grump is the same really. I am old and can remember my first
brand
new 1969 VW bug, which with everything I wanted (including the vinyl
walnut
dashboard applicates and the nifty real walnut gearshift lever) and
including shipping and taxes... they handed me the keys and I gave
them a
check for a few dollars under two thousand. I know about inflation,
and this

is not fully rational, but the cart still sounds like three or four
VW's
somewhere in my head.}

Yours

gto





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------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Hi All, Well this has been strange one. And like Joe I've known Greg at
Rangate for a long time. This morning Brian and I emailed Gerald asking if
he could send us the actual email that he received from Greg that implied
legal action would be taken against him. Haven't heard from Gerald as yet.
But I did call Greg at Rangate a few minutes ago to find out his side of the
story. First Greg said that there was no legal threat against Gerald nor
will there be. Second he was peeved that their quote that was just intended
for Gerald was immediately published on the FOG, but he agreed that there
was no evil purpose on the part of Gerald. I did recommend that instead of
the standard boilerplate text that appears on the bottom of so many emails
these days that most people ignore, I suggested a simple sentence or an
actual spoken statement stating the quote is for this person only.
In any case the Vkuucar is still a nifty gadget.
Take care,
John

Eric Riebling also represents Barth.

Cliff,

I too couldn't find anything on the Felder labeled Metal Glanz, but found it under several other labels. It appears to be a product produced by HAGLEITNER.

datasheet here:


Hope this helps,

Lance

I've never seen one. Has any one one seen one?
Can't find one on Felder's site.

I use a Festool Vac Sys kit which I attach to a Festool bench or sometimes to my very low tech, height adjustable cart.





I know the VACS is not available in the US (yet) but there are many similar things around. Cost me about $2,000 all in with the pump, two swivel bases and 6 different vacuum heads. Probably the best investment I've ever made in the shop. My cheapo cart was about $400 - not so good - I'de prefer a hospital bed style arrangement.

I think if I had the money I'd be tempted by one the Vakuucars, but I agree that with the ingenuity of the FOG it should be easy to go the home-made route.

Richard.

I know Greg Godbout as a very valuable tooling seller/adviser and also as a friend.

Mr. Ortman's experience does not fit with the Greg Godbout I know and trust and everyone should remember that there are two sides to every story.

Joe in New Orleans


Joe Doherty
4611 Magazine St.
New Orleans, LA 70115
504 669 4571 mobile
504 891 4424 office
dohertyj@...




On May 8, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Gerald Ortman wrote:

To the FOG List Owner(s) and anyone reading this thread.

I have just received an email from Gregory Godbout at Rangate containing a
notice to me that he will be checking with his attorneys regarding an action
against me personally for posting the pricelist that he sent me, claiming in
effect, that the retail price list is protected privileged information. No
other complaint is made by him at this time other than the claim that the
price list is 'protected'.

I am unable to understand the position and believe it is in error, however
it is not my desire in life to upset anyone and if he feels so strongly I
will ask the following.

1. Will the list owner(s) remove the pricelist posting as well as any
referring to it.

2. Will the dear readers of FOG please destroy all copies of the pricelist
they have in any form, and not communicate to anyone the prices of the
Vakuucar product line.

I am a 63 year old disabled retiree and cannot afford to pursue a legal
defense of any kind at this time and will therefore hope that Mr. Godbout
will accept my apology for the unintended transgression. I truly did not
believe that circulating a retail pricelist sent to me in response to a
simple request for prices, would be something that Mr. Godbout would feel
was a secret communication of propriatory information and would see me
threatened with a ruinous lawsuit. I ask politely that he forgo such.

I will further ask the list owners to drop me from the list so as to avoid
being a bother or further possible trouble for anyone.

Gerald

PS: I have had occasion for other dealings with Rangate over time and I
believe also with Mr. Godbout regarding insert tooling. I have never had
cause for complaint.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No question I am sure it was very costly and very heavy with no adjustment in the ways, way to big and heavy to push all day that's for sure. Going with the X roll was smart decision.
mac
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Gerald,
I believe that what Greg sent to threaten you is a load of crap. I would not worry about it. How can a retail price list be private information? Rangate would send this list to anybody who requests info on the product, so how is there any harm done here? Besides, not many folks will be lining up to spend 7-10K on a gimmicky mobile workbench anyway.

Maybe you were offered a super deal that is not in fact retail pricing...

Mac, I think the pro glide was more expensive to manufacture and was considered overkill- which is kind of like saying it was too expensive. Dave

To: felder-woodworking@...
From: mac512002@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:47:59 -0700
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: New Format - 4 Kappa 400


























Mark,

Sometimes they trickle up as example it appears the pro glide is not offered and all Formats are X roll.

This is just an observation on my part and i could be wrong but that's the way it looks to me.

mac,,,



martin/campshure/co/llc

mac campshure

7412 elmwood ave.

middleton, wi 53562-3106

608-332-2330 cell

608-824-0023 fax

airtightclamps@...

info@...

airtightclamps.com



________________________________

From: mcdavis <mcdavis@...>

To: felder-woodworking@...

Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:04 PM

Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: New Format - 4 Kappa 400





Thanks John. Do when will these new features trickle down to the Felder and Hammer lines? Seriously, does anyone have a good handle on when updates are expected for the Felder and Hammer saws (I need to get one)? I didn't see a price anywhere, but I have a feeling it isn't cheap :).



-mark



--- In felder-woodworking@..., "John Renzetti" <jrenzetti1@...> wrote:

The 400 is the upgraded version of the Kappa 40. It looks like they've added

5 axis control on the cnc option. The parallelogram table is new as is the

blade compartment. Looks like the digital indicators on the rip and

crosscut fence is new.

-----Original Message-----

From: felder-woodworking@...

[mailto:felder-woodworking@...] On Behalf Of David Kumm

Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 3:32 PM

To: felder-woodworking@...

Subject: RE: [felder-woodworking] New Format - 4 Kappa 400

Can anyone say what is new and improved? I looked at the site but some of

the stuff listed as new seemed the same. I'm always interested in the

details even if not in the market so hopefully Felder will supply some.

Dave

To: felder-woodworking@...

From: mac512002@...

Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 12:29:33 -0700

Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] New Format - 4 Kappa 400

Great videoanomation

I like the Martin outrigger.

What i don't get is the mirror saw blades,,, that is the stupidest idea i

have ever seen, you literally can't see the blade when it is running.

The EU is supposed to be so safety conscious,,, well they failed on this

one!!

mac,,,

martin/campshure/co/llc

mac campshure

7412 elmwood ave.

middleton, wi 53562-3106

608-332-2330 cell

608-824-0023 fax

airtightclamps@...

info@...

airtightclamps.com

________________________________

From: feldergroupusa <salesinfo@...>

To: felder-woodworking@...

Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 2:09 PM

Subject: [felder-woodworking] New Format - 4 Kappa 400

Dear Members

The New Format - 4 Kappa 400 sliding table saw is now available in the US

and will be on display at the IWF show in Atlanta this August.

Please click on this link for more information.

Link:

at_code=29966d2a1b48742c07e1a48be4d290da&region=us-us

Best regards

Your Felder Group Team

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@...

Visit the group web site:

Visit the FOG photo library at

FOG Amazon link: - Support the FOG with purchases at Amazon.

! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark,
Sometimes they trickle up as example it appears the pro glide is not offered and all Formats are X roll.
This is just an observation on my part and i could be wrong but that's the way it looks to me.
mac,,,??

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell
608-824-0023 fax
airtightclamps@...
info@...
airtightclamps.com



________________________________
From: mcdavis <mcdavis@...>
To: felder-woodworking@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:04 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: New Format - 4 Kappa 400


?
Thanks John. Do when will these new features trickle down to the Felder and Hammer lines? Seriously, does anyone have a good handle on when updates are expected for the Felder and Hammer saws (I need to get one)? I didn't see a price anywhere, but I have a feeling it isn't cheap :).

-mark

--- In felder-woodworking@..., "John Renzetti" <jrenzetti1@...> wrote:

The 400 is the upgraded version of the Kappa 40. It looks like they've added
5 axis control on the cnc option. The parallelogram table is new as is the
blade compartment. Looks like the digital indicators on the rip and
crosscut fence is new.

-----Original Message-----
From: felder-woodworking@...
[mailto:felder-woodworking@...] On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 3:32 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: RE: [felder-woodworking] New Format - 4 Kappa 400


Can anyone say what is new and improved? I looked at the site but some of
the stuff listed as new seemed the same. I'm always interested in the
details even if not in the market so hopefully Felder will supply some.
Dave
To: felder-woodworking@...
From: mac512002@...
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 12:29:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] New Format - 4 Kappa 400


























Great videoanomation



I like the Martin outrigger.

What i don't get is the mirror saw blades,,, that is the stupidest idea i
have ever seen, you literally can't see the blade when it is running.

The EU is supposed to be so safety conscious,,, well they failed on this
one!!

mac,,,



martin/campshure/co/llc

mac campshure

7412 elmwood ave.

middleton, wi 53562-3106

608-332-2330 cell

608-824-0023 fax

airtightclamps@...

info@...

airtightclamps.com



________________________________

From: feldergroupusa <salesinfo@...>

To: felder-woodworking@...

Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 2:09 PM

Subject: [felder-woodworking] New Format - 4 Kappa 400





Dear Members



The New Format - 4 Kappa 400 sliding table saw is now available in the US
and will be on display at the IWF show in Atlanta this August.



Please click on this link for more information.

Link:

at_code=29966d2a1b48742c07e1a48be4d290da&region=us-us



Best regards



Your Felder Group Team






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@...

Visit the group web site:


Visit the FOG photo library at

FOG Amazon link: - Support the FOG with purchases at Amazon.
! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gerald, I am?a California lawyer.? I do not know in what jurisdiction your alleged transgression occurred so I will, for that and other reasons, withhold professional comment.?
?
However, I solemnly promise never to consult this or any other Rangate price list or indeed any Rangate catalog, advertisement or other product offering.?
?
It needs no legal analysis to conclude that life is sometimes too short.

??????? Jim

James H. Fleming
925-683-1002 (C)
510-273-8832 (Fax)
jameshfleming@...