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Hi,

I do not have my machine yet (CF 7 41 S Professional), but I ordered it at
the end of January (31st) and expect delivery about the first week of June.
I understand that the normal delivery time is about 3 months. It takes about
4-5 weeks for the machine to come from Austria. My machine is now on the
water between here and Germany. Each machine is built to order and will
probably take some time to figure out what you want, and you may change your
mind a few times as well. I would speak to Felder about the deposit, I
believe that it is 10%. Since Felder was changing the model lines there were
some delays in production. I originally ordered the old model before the new
ones were introduced, but I am now getting the new model.

There is a PDF file in the files section (under new machines), detailing the
changes. It is quite informative. There were also a few posts that I did
(see messages 137 - 145). I would speak to Felder about the changes; they
have one of the new machines for display at the showroom in Sacramento.

I ordered the 4 knife Felder cutter head with the jointer, as well as 2
extension tables. The extension tables will work on the other parts of the
machine as well. You can also order the motorized lift option for the
thickness table. I did not get that on my machine. Some people have the
motorized lift, but I have found that most do not. Most seem to have the 4
knife Felder cutter option.

I would speak to Charlie Norton about the planer adjustment. I met him at
his house yesterday and he is very knowledgeable about the adjustment on the
tables. He did have a Starrett straight edge, and I think that I will get
one as well. With any jointer you will probably have to make some
adjustments, especially since these machines are shipped from across the
world and will get banged up in shipping.

I would not be as concerned with the drill press. If you want a quality
machine, I would look into metal working equipment. A drill press is a very
basic machine, and to spend the money for an American made one was not as
important to me as having a better woodworking machine. I have a Powermatic
and am happy with it. I am sure that someone here will have more info on the
drill press.

Scott

Hi Joe,

I'll answer what I can from my experience.

At 10:40 PM 5/14/00 -0000, you wrote:

Hi,

...

1. When you order a Felder machine, how long does delivery take? I
have the impression that the machines are build to order based on
other posts. Another question along this line is how much of a
deposit is typically required for a machine order?

I ordered a CF731 - a new 700 series 12" combination machine - in
mid-April. The machine is expected to be delivered to me here on the east
coast in late July/early August. Prior to that it gets built in Austria,
shipped to Sacramento and given a good going-over there, then shipped to me
in Virginia. I put down at 10% deposit.

2. The current 16" machine is the AD7-41. However, a new 700 series
machine is available I hear. What are the differences? I have heard
that new units have an optional phase conversion unit($300).

I got info on the 700 series machines faxed to me by Felder.

...

That's all I can answer.

Steve

Hi,

I just joined the board on Friday after seeing John's review
of one of Felder's Planer / Jointers and passing back and forth
several emails with him. In the meantime, the folks at Felder USA in
Sacramento have sent me a literature package plus video tapes for
HFelder and Hammer. I am planning to trek over to Sacramento store
near the end of the month to see and possibly buy a 16" machine.
However, until then I have several question that maybe some of the
board members can help with.

1. When you order a Felder machine, how long does delivery take? I
have the impression that the machines are build to order based on
other posts. Another question along this line is how much of a
deposit is typically required for a machine order?

2. The current 16" machine is the AD7-41. However, a new 700 series
machine is available I hear. What are the differences? I have heard
that new units have an optional phase conversion unit($300).

3. What options do people typically order with the planer/jointers?

4. How much infeed/outfeed alignment work is required for a new
machine? The reason I ask is that on other boards people recommend
getting a Starrett precision straight edge to align the tables on new
Delta units.

5. One final unrelated question. Does anyone make a Felder class
drill press?

Thanks Alot Everyone

-Joe Repac

This will combine two messages in one.
First, thanks to Rich Mccomas from AK for uploading the picture of the
kitchen he built. Nice job.
Went up to the Philadelphia Furniture and Furnishings Show on Friday and met
one of our members,Frits Maas from WI who was an exhibitor (booth #123). It
was great meeting Frits and seeing the beautiful well designed and finely
crafted furniture he had built. I took some pictures and they'll be added to
the members projects area.
Take care,
John Renzetti
Chadds Ford, PA

Cherry and cherry veneer with a dark cherry stain. Corain for the counter tops and
back splash behind the stove. I built the range out of plywood then had copper made
for the outside and put Corain on the inside.

Geoff Shepherd wrote:

Richard - What a kitchen! Very impressive. The appliance garages are a
perfect fit for the situation. What woods were used?

..Geoff

I just upload to the files section a scanned photo of a kitchen I
built a few year ago that made one of the local magazines. I rarely
if
ever take photos of my work and that's why there are no pictures of
the other wall in the kitchen where a built in Sub-Zero refrigerator/
freezer with matching panels and pantry are located. Perhaps the
unusual thing about this kitchen is that on leg of the kitchen wall
of the house lean out at a 22.5 degree angle. This allowed the
tamboured appliance garages between the upper and lower cabinets. I
also built the table, in stalled the flooring and the ceiling.

Erik wrote:

informed as to my progress. What state are these guys in anyway?

Uh, State of denial? ;-) They're in Dayton, Ohio. John Folkerth purchased
the original closed-up factory (Magna Engineering) in the 70's and brought
it back to life. It couldn't hurt giving him a call or writing a letter...
if I were in his position, I'd sure want to know about lousy customer
service and botched orders. This whole mess is certainly counter to my
experience with them. For example, when I ordered a factory refurbished 12"
planer a couple years ago, what I received looked like it had been abused by
the previous customer (including lots of strange scribbling in the manual),
and was missing several parts. It had obviously slipped through the refurb
department unexamined. I called them up and they were just as shocked as I
was and quite apologetic. Much to my delight, they shipped a brand new
planer via 2nd day air and picked up the original, all at no charge. That's
customer service... I hope it's not a lost art with them.

..Geoff

Geoff,

It was a good heads-up on the meter -- I've wanted to get one for a while and this
price was great. I guess the reason I'm so annoyed with ShopSmith is that they admit
error, but won't do anything to correct the situation. How much can it cost to order a
few 606 meters and fulfill those orders that they screwed up on? I'll keep the group
informed as to my progress. What state are these guys in anyway?

Regards, Erik

Wow, Erik - I'm very sorry I even posted the original message about the deal
to this group. I had no idea of the problems that company appears to be
having at this point. It looks like some of us were lucky, and for others
the deal was too good to be true.

I would be ticked as well... as far as I'm concerned, if an on-line retailer
says something is in stock and ready to ship at the time I place my order,
and especially if they charge my card for the item, I expect to get the
item. Very rarely have I had problems like this with any company, but when
it does happen, it is not an enjoyable thing. I hope you and others who got
stuck with this can get it resolved quickly and painlessly.

--
Geoff

Well, I thought it was straightened out...when I got home from work yesterday I got a
message that they were actually out of stock, it was a clearance item, and I can either
keep the one I got for a price or send it back. Don't know about you, but this really
p*sses me off. Apparently I'm not the only one this has happened to -- anyone else
here??? Customer service was absolutely no help at all and this got me going -- I said
that any competent company that cares about their image would special order a few units
from Wagner to send to those customers that had already placed an order (and been
billed for it!). Even the customer service manager was no help at all. I did get the
names of the Pres. John Folkerth (x500) and VP Larry Jones (x400) at (800)543-9396 and
am planning on following up. I'd like to hear from others in the same boat. I'm now
convinced that some stock guy who purposely wanted to side step the whole issue started
throwing 609's in the remaining order boxes, because it doesn't seem isolated to me.
This probably isn't even legal!

A lot of companies can learn an aweful lot from Felder's customer service.

Leo-

I'll vouch for the pallet jack in our warehouse. Of course we also
use a forklift, but I doubt most folks have use for one at home.

:) Tom V.

Hmm.. that doesn't sound good. Shipping & handling costs aside, I've had few
problems in my dealings with that company, and when I've had a problem
they've been quick to ship a replacement and pick up the original at no
charge. Just this year I did have a problem similar to what you describe,
but eventually was able to order what I wanted (on sale at that). It sounds
like they are having problems keeping everyone on the same page (i.e. they
could use an updated inventory system with bar code scanners).

Yow, big electrical storm coming through... I better shut things down.
..Geoff

I find it very interesting that you called them and they are going to send you the
606. I tried twice to order one of the 606 ( when on sale ) and was clearly told that
had no more in stock and would not handle them anymore.

I have read a couple of post on other woodworking forum concerning ShopSmith's costume
service and the shipping rates. The person posting was not happy with either. Rich

Erik Friis wrote:

Hi Joe,

I contemplated the same thing when I bought my BF7-41XL. I decided to by a
European (21") wide pallet jack instead of the mobility kit. I reasoned that a
pallet jack would be a really nice item to have at my disposal for purposes
well beyond moving the Felder alone. Yet it costs the same or a nominal amout
more than the mobility kit depending on the quality of the jack you buy. A
jack will allow you to approach and move your machine from both front and back
sides and turn at a more radical angle in really tight situations. I can tell
you with full confidence that I would not have been able to get my machine off
its truck, down the loading ramp, up the driveway, and into my shop without a
pallet jack. I also think our good freinds at Felder rely on pallet jacks
more often then not when it comes to moving machines around (correct me if I'm
wrong guys).



"Joe Dusel" <joedusel@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I'm thinking about ordering the mobility kit for the KF700S Pro that
I'm getting. Are they worth the money? Is it possible to move these
big 1800 lb machines without these? I'm not planning on moving it
much, but I do figure that I might need to reposition the machine
once or twice after I get it.

Many thanks,

Joe





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The thought of not having the mobility kit makes my muscles ache! Then
again, if my shop was larger so I could leave the machine permanently in one
spot, renting/borrowing a pallet jack makes a lot of sense. Given the
smallish size of my shop (440 sq. ft.), I move my BF6-31 fairly often either
to rotate it or get it out of the way for a project.

..Geoff

Glad you got it straightened out... as noted, the 606 is the one to get. I
too don't particularly care for Shopsmith's "Catalog-style" shipping &
handling charges being based on order value rather than item weight.
Shipping should be the actual cost of shipping, and handling should be built
into the product prices or a nominal fee per item (like Amazon). Collecting
sales tax is complicated for them as they do most of their sales via
mall/home show demos and thus have a business presence in most states. You
would think their Woodturning Unlimited site (where the big sale is/was)
would be a separate business, but I guess it isn't really as far as tax laws
go. Too bad. It still was a good deal, though... also on the Tormek's while
they had them.

..Geoff

Hi Joe,

I also ordered the mobility kit. I think its the best single accessory you
can order for the machine. Without it, you are essentially stuck with the
machine wherever it lands. I know that its possible to move it using a
pallet jack or some other technique, but for most people; thats more theory
than reality.

Regards - Seth

Joe,

I've added the mobility kit to both my KF-7F and AD7-51. They share the
same handle which makes it more economical. I really like having the
machines on wheels so I can move them when I need to. I can't imagine not
being able to move them at all.

Joe-

If you have or rent a narrow pallet jack (21" outside width), you can move
your FELDER machine very easily. Renting a pallet jack for $25 a day
may be more economical than purchasing the $349 wheel kit, especially
if you are only going to benefit from it just a few times. But if you think
you
may need to move your machine more than 14 times over the time you
own it (at least 40 years, right?), the FELDER wheel kit is extremely
easy to use and very heavy duty.

Have Fun - Tom V.