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Re: horsepower
John Renzetti
Hi Jason, Boy are you lucky, getting the 3phase right into the shop
without a converter. :) Since you now have that option, I'm even more convinced the 3phase 4hp, AF22LN is the way to go, for all your machines. The 99 Christmas catalog had it for $939 complete. I think the Oneida is about $700. Nothing wrong with the Oneida. I think they have a 2hp version now without all the bags, but I think that is even more than the AF22LN, and you'd still have to get them to put the 3ph motor on it. Larry Johnston and Steve Jenkins use the Doughty remote DC starter. I'm thinking of getting one myself. Larry posted some diagrams of his setup in the files section. Take care, John Renzetti PS. Future Felder owner, Eric Joseph Renzetti, was born at 0129 EST. Weighs 4kg. Mother and baby doing fine. --- In felder-woodworking@..., "Jason Gant" <rjasong@a...> wrote: Thanks John and Rick. I'm sure I'll just go ahead with the 5.5HP.I'd hate to regret it later.a really cool option, but I wonder how much I'd really use it. I'll have thevariable speed belt system on the shaper anyway. Besides, I wouldn't beusing it for phase conversion(I already have 3 Phase power... well, I'm in themiddle of pulling it over to the garage/shop), and it costs a whopping $2100for the 3 Phase motors! Any idea why it would be so much higher for 3 Phase?I'd have thought it would have been the other way around???efficient extraction design on the Felder, plus the modern motor design, I'dbet the motor performance will outdo my old Rockwell.just for the KF700Pro. But John R. is trying to tempt me with the AF22LN(grin). Any thoughts? Perhaps the Oneida wouldn't be powerful enough? |
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Re: Hard To Read Messages Revisited
Scott Slater
Hi Natalie,
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I am going to the Center for Furniture Craftsmanship in Maine. I will be there the first 2 weeks of July. I will post some reports to Badger Pond when I am there. The school is run by Peter Korn and has a bias towards hand tools. I look forward to this experience. I have not had any formal training in woodworking, so it will be nice to learn some new techniques. I am sure that you will have a great time in France, I was there last year and had a nice time. I took the Chunnel train from London to Paris, this was fun, a very fast 3 hour trip. I know of a very nice hotel in Paris that is not too expensive, if you are interested email me. Have you decided on a Felder yet, I remember that you were interested in the BF6 when we last spoke. Nice to hear from you again, Scott. Scott Slater scott@... www.studiouw.com -----Original Message-----
From: Natalie Johnston [mailto:dotcalm@...] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 5:10 PM To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Hard To Read Messages Revisited Hey Scott, I looked at that mail message rules thing and I'm so glad you pointed that out! I knew that was possible, I had heard about it, but had never figured out how to do it. You just saved me a lot of time moving may messages around to various folders. I'm sorting all my Felder messages by subject for future reference. PS. What classes did you decide to take this summer, and when? I ended up not signing up for anything, and I'm already regretting it. But, my sister is getting married in September and the wedding will be in France. My whole family is going and that's taking up all the time and resources to spare. Thanks! Natalie |
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Re: horsepower
Charlie Norton
I would base the choice of dust collector on the expected duct losses. The
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Oneida 1.5HP unit is a remarkable design, and holds up well under moderate losses, yet the AF-22 will hold up better, since it is a much higher power unit. Based on the data in the Felder catalog, the AF-22 will properly evacuate the machine in the face of about 9.8 in of water (600 cfm), or the equivalent of 150 feet of 5" smooth pipe. -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Gant <rjasong@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Monday, April 24, 2000 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] horsepower Thanks John and Rick. I'm sure I'll just go ahead with the 5.5HP. I'd hatevariable speed belt system on the shaper anyway. Besides, I wouldn't be using itfor phase conversion(I already have 3 Phase power... well, I'm in the middle of3 Phase motors! Any idea why it would be so much higher for 3 Phase? I'd havefelder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: horsepower
Jason Gant
Thanks John and Rick. I'm sure I'll just go ahead with the 5.5HP. I'd hate
to regret it later. Rick, the Variable frequency conversion controller thingy would be a really cool option, but I wonder how much I'd really use it. I'll have the variable speed belt system on the shaper anyway. Besides, I wouldn't be using it for phase conversion(I already have 3 Phase power... well, I'm in the middle of pulling it over to the garage/shop), and it costs a whopping $2100 for the 3 Phase motors! Any idea why it would be so much higher for 3 Phase? I'd have thought it would have been the other way around??? Good point on the dust collector/motor cooler! With the more efficient extraction design on the Felder, plus the modern motor design, I'd bet the motor performance will outdo my old Rockwell. As far as collectors, I had figured I'd go with another Oneida 1.5 just for the KF700Pro. But John R. is trying to tempt me with the AF22LN (grin). Any thoughts? Perhaps the Oneida wouldn't be powerful enough? thanks guys, Jason G |
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Re: horsepower
Rick Strom
Good Morning Jason:
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I would agree with John Renzetti about the 4kw motor. Going beyond this hp capability will take some serious evaluations as to the type of use, how often, and cost to install. Then of course, justification of all. In addition, as you may have noticed on some of the past discussions, the new technology in motor control is to use a VFD. I would encourage you to look at using this method of control, over the star delta. In addition to better control, both speed, starting and stopping, but also as a "clean" way to invert from single phase to three phase power. Moving to the 7.5hp will significantly increase your installation costs. Like John mentioned, the 4kw unit, will handle most applications. Using the Rockwell unit that you have, and your comment about pushing it to the limit. Motor technology has improved significantly. Depending on the motor, assuming it is the original, several factors can cause the performance to be less than what you could expect for the same hp on a new Felder. For example, bearings, maintenance, and how often it was pushed to the limit, causing the control system to "trip". We find that most motor failures start with bearing failure, which causes the windings to overheat, and then short out. On this same thought, consideration need also be given to the dust collection system. I would venture a guess that most people when specifying a dc, think that the main, and only purpose of this system is to remove dust. So as a result if the chips go away you designed a good system. However, the more air you can move over the motor frame the cooler and longer it will run with maximum performance. As you consider the 7.5hp motor as an option, keep this in mind. This may be more than what you were looking for, but this early in the morning, I tend to ramble. Like you, I have given the larger hp some consideration. I believe, speed and the sharpness of the blade coupled with the 4kw unit, and the control system, will handle most all applications. Good luck. Rick Strom Virginia Operation -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Gant [mailto:rjasong@...] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 12:37 PM To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: [felder-woodworking] horsepower Hi Group, Well I'm getting closer to making the big purchase(KF700 Pro). 4hp is standard, so of course I figured the 5.5hp option would be that much better, but it's $210 more PLUS I'd have to step up to the "star-delta" switching, which costs $260. $470 total to upgrade to 5.5hp. Here's my question: Will the 5.5hp be all that noticable over the 4hp? Or if I decide I need/want more than the 4hp, do I go ahead and go with the 7.5hp - since I'd already have to upgrade the swithing. I currently use an old Rockwell 12"-14" table saw with a 5hp motor, and yes I do occasionally push it past its power limit, especially ripping thick stock with the feeder. Any thoughts/opinions??? thanks, Jason G To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... Visit the group web site: |
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Re: Sound Proofing Materials
Geoff Shepherd
Natalie,
Thanks for the information. The interlocking rubber tiles are probably the same thing the weight rooms use... they might be a great solution so long as I can still roll my machines around and the tiles aren't too much of a thermal insulator since I plan to have in-floor heating. The wood floor is not only nice to stand on and not so disasterous to dropped parts, but it allows insulating with pink-board, laying down the heating tubes, running electricity and dust collection, and it's something I can do without emptying the shop and breaking out the existing floor. I may end up using something called Warm Board for the sub-floor - it already has grooves routed into it for the heating tubes and an aluminum conduction layer laminated on top for fast temperature response. You can get polycarbonate at most home centers in the cut shop... one brand name is Lucite-Tuf (funny, the sheet says it's acrylic - same stuff?). When used for interior storm windows, it is sometimes fitted with magnetic strip and the window frame with steel L channel (painted to blend in). At my parent's house, I was always amazed at the noise reduction when the storms were put up for the winter. A more expensive form of polycarb is molded with internal air channels and is used for greenhouses. Take care, ..Geoff |
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Re: Sound Proofing Materials
Geoff,
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At the high school shop where I sometimes help out, they have a floor just as you described and the exterior walking surface is of maple hardwood. I have never really stopped to think how that might reverberate the noise, but it probably does. I just posted a message to Scott Slater regarding his shop floor, and other than what I suggested to him, the only other thing you might consider is using those square rubber floor tiles that lock together, (I have a catalogue if your interested), or laying down those large square rubber fatigue mats. These rubber tiles would also serve as fatigue mats. Rubber is a good material for sound absorption, but because it is more dense and without airpockets trapped inside, it is not as effective as Styrofoam and foamrubber. The greatest thing about the raised floor at the high school shop is that they routed all the dust collection ducts under the floor, they don't have all those pipes going up to the ceiling to that get in the way when I'm swinging long boards around. I have often wondered what would happen if one of them became clogged, but I guess they would do the same thing plumbers do. In 4 years, I haven't heard of that being a problem. I haven't heard about the polycarbonate panels you mentioned, but would like to know more about them. Thanks, Natalie ----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Shepherd To: felder-woodworking@... Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Sound Proofing Materials Natalie, Thanks for posting about your experiences in sound proofing. This is something I need to do to my shop. Fortunately, it is detached from the house, but it faces the alley and is within 50 - 75' of my neighbors homes. So, I one of my goals is to keep the noise down so as to not irritate the neigbors or call attention to a shop full of tools (we get a number of questionable folks wandering through the alley at night). I plan to build a raised wood floor over the existing slab. Do you have any thoughts on what I could do to prevent the floor from becoming a sounding board? For windows, have you tried putting up polycarbonate panels? This is the stuff they make interior storm windows out of, and not only is it a poor heat conductor, but also a good sound insulator. It is often demonstrated with a radio blaring away inside the window. Screwed down, it could also be a good theft deterent since the stuff is just about unbreakable. ..Geoff To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... Visit the group web site: |
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Re: Hard To Read Messages Revisited
Hey Scott,
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I looked at that mail message rules thing and I'm so glad you pointed that out! I knew that was possible, I had heard about it, but had never figured out how to do it. You just saved me a lot of time moving may messages around to various folders. I'm sorting all my Felder messages by subject for future reference. PS. What classes did you decide to take this summer, and when? I ended up not signing up for anything, and I'm already regretting it. But, my sister is getting married in September and the wedding will be in France. My whole family is going and that's taking up all the time and resources to spare. Thanks! Natalie ----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Slater To: felder-woodworking@... Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 10:22 PM Subject: RE: [felder-woodworking] Hard To Read Messages Revisited I am using Outlook, and have a filter setup for all messages that contain "felder-woodworking" in the subject, they move into the Felder folder. To do this, go to the rules wizard under tools, setup a new rule. All messages from the group contain felder-woodworking in the subject. Scott Slater scott@... www.studiouw.com To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... Visit the group web site: |
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Re: Sound Proofing Materials
Anthony,
As far as the ceiling of your shop goes, I would think that if you put in a drop ceiling and put the foam panels either on the outside of the ceiling or concealed inside the framework and covered with sheet rock or plywood would do the trick. However, I think it would work just as well to put the foam panels on the surface of the concrete slab, assuming you could figure out a way to attach them other than, say, with your hot glue gun. As someone pointed out, these panels absorb the sound, as much as provide a barrier. As far as the vibrations go, just tell those computer techys that you won't charge them for the periodic foot massages. Regarding you question about putting chipboard under the machine, I just don't think it will make enough difference to warrant the work and expense. I think the carpet will work good enough on the floor, but if you were inclined to do something more than the carpet, I would buy the 3/4" sound board that's fairly common in hardware stores. It is sometimes referred to as fiberboard, but make sure that what you buy has some specific claim to sound proofing qualities. This would be fine on a floor covered by carpet, but would not be durable enough by itself. The other concern I would have is getting your machinery level on it. The weight of the machinery might crush it unevenly, so consider that idea with caution. By the way, I have carpet on my shop floor, (but the legs of my machines and workbench are not on carpet). I started out using large pieces of carpet over those rubber fatigue mats for extra help on the concrete floor and found that they help keep the dust down a lot. Mainly because the dust sticks to them. They aren't as troublesome and hard to clean up as I guessed they would be, they make the floor warmer and not as hard on the joints. The best part is that when I drop my tools or work pieces, they suffer much less damage. I don't know anything about the polycarbonate material you referred to for the windows, but I would love to know more about it. Natalie ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Christy To: felder-woodworking@... ; dotcalm@... Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Sound Proofing Materials Dear Natalie, I read your tips with great interest. My shop is on the ground floor, downstairs from a computer college. The building has double brick (cavity) walls, a extra reinforced concrete slab (350mm thick) at 3.650m above the ground floor slab. I've re-screeded the workshop floor and will have an old carpet to cover it so as to dampen the reflected sound. Unfortunately the slab above really transmits sound/vibrations quite efficiently through itself. The windows (1m high) are set at 2.650m and go up to the lower side of the slab, on the South side of the shop. I have the dust collector on the outside of the South wall (in the car park). Do you think a suspended ceiling (of chip-board on battens) and something similar on the walls would dampen the sound transmission? Would a layer of chipboard under the machine help any? As I have two airconditioner openings (and two very old airconditioning units) to let air in, so I may put a layer of poly-carb over the windows (if I can get enough air through the dust collection system). Thanks for your input. Anthony To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... Visit the group web site: |
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Re: horsepower
John Renzetti
Hi Jason, I have the 5.5hp option and that has provided plenty of power
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to both the KF7F and the AD7-41. If you plan on doing a lot of ripping of thicker hardwoods the 4kw,5.5hp will give you an extra margin especially during operations where you are continuously ripping 8/4 or greater hardwoods. I really don't think you'd need the 7.5hp unless you planned on keeping the machine on for hours at a time. From what I understand as the motor operates throughout the day during long periods, it of course gets hotter and this causes somewhat of a power drop, so at the beginning of the day you start with 5.5hp and by the end of the day of continuous operation you may only have 3hp. Hopefully some of the motor guys like Rick Strom or John Hartshorne will also jump in and add some more info. Take care, John Renzetti Chadds Ford,PA (Looks like new baby will arrive tomorrow-the dates changed so much I think there's a betting line on him in Vegas. ) ----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Gant <rjasong@...> To: <felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 12:37 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] horsepower Hi Group,better, but it's $210 more PLUS I'd have to step up to the "star-delta" switching,if I decide I need/want more than the 4hp, do I go ahead and go with thefelder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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horsepower
Jason Gant
Hi Group,
Well I'm getting closer to making the big purchase(KF700 Pro). 4hp is standard, so of course I figured the 5.5hp option would be that much better, but it's $210 more PLUS I'd have to step up to the "star-delta" switching, which costs $260. $470 total to upgrade to 5.5hp. Here's my question: Will the 5.5hp be all that noticable over the 4hp? Or if I decide I need/want more than the 4hp, do I go ahead and go with the 7.5hp - since I'd already have to upgrade the swithing. I currently use an old Rockwell 12"-14" table saw with a 5hp motor, and yes I do occasionally push it past its power limit, especially ripping thick stock with the feeder. Any thoughts/opinions??? thanks, Jason G |
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Re: Sound Proofing Materials
Dear Natalie,
I read your tips with great interest. My shop is on the ground floor, downstairs from a computer college. The building has double brick (cavity) walls, a extra reinforced concrete slab (350mm thick) at 3.650m above the ground floor slab. I've re-screeded the workshop floor and will have an old carpet to cover it so as to dampen the reflected sound. Unfortunately the slab above really transmits sound/vibrations quite efficiently through itself. The windows (1m high) are set at 2.650m and go up to the lower side of the slab, on the South side of the shop. I have the dust collector on the outside of the South wall (in the car park). Do you think a suspended ceiling (of chip-board on battens) and something similar on the walls would dampen the sound transmission? Would a layer of chipboard under the machine help any? As I have two airconditioner openings (and two very old airconditioning units) to let air in, so I may put a layer of poly-carb over the windows (if I can get enough air through the dust collection system). Thanks for your input. Anthony |
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Re: Hard To Read Messages Revisited
Scott Slater
I am using Outlook, and have a filter setup for all messages that contain
"felder-woodworking" in the subject, they move into the Felder folder. To do this, go to the rules wizard under tools, setup a new rule. All messages from the group contain felder-woodworking in the subject. Scott Slater scott@... www.studiouw.com |
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Re: Hard To Read Messages Revisited
Richard McComas
I have decided that I would just got back to having all the messages sent to my e-mail
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server. Everything work well there. Geoff Shepherd wrote: Richard, have you played with your browser settings at all? Smaller font |
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Re: Hard To Read Messages Revisited
Geoff Shepherd
Richard, have you played with your browser settings at all? Smaller font
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size, full-screen window, more display resolution? The web site does not wrap the messages to fit your window size. How far are the lines extending to the right? Several words, or a whole paragraph's worth? Some of us do have our e-mail programs set to wrap words at 76 characters or so, which is an old standard from before Windows/Mac. It also happens to be much shorter than necessary these days, so that is why those messages are showing up fine for you. ..Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Richard McComas <rmccomas@...> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 7:49 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Hard To Read Messages Revisited A few threads back I posted a message on how the messages run off |
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Re: Sound Proofing Materials
Geoff Shepherd
Natalie,
Thanks for posting about your experiences in sound proofing. This is something I need to do to my shop. Fortunately, it is detached from the house, but it faces the alley and is within 50 - 75' of my neighbors homes. So, I one of my goals is to keep the noise down so as to not irritate the neigbors or call attention to a shop full of tools (we get a number of questionable folks wandering through the alley at night). I plan to build a raised wood floor over the existing slab. Do you have any thoughts on what I could do to prevent the floor from becoming a sounding board? For windows, have you tried putting up polycarbonate panels? This is the stuff they make interior storm windows out of, and not only is it a poor heat conductor, but also a good sound insulator. It is often demonstrated with a radio blaring away inside the window. Screwed down, it could also be a good theft deterent since the stuff is just about unbreakable. ..Geoff |
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Re: I'm engaged...
Geoff Shepherd
Congratulations, Steve!
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I have the AF22 LN dust collector. Actually, I was planning on an Oneida cyclone, but the guy I bought the BF6-31 from really wanted me to buy the AF22 LN from him as well (he was buying an industrial outdoor cyclone system from a friend to better meet the needs of his monster wide-belt sander). At first, I thought this dust collector was going to be way overkill for my use... however, last night I really put it to the test. My dad came over with a bunch of rough western maple boards neededing surfacing for a book case project, and we just about filled up both bags with the shavings. With a smaller collector, we would have had to empty the bags several times I'm sure. The pleated drum filter on this unit also does an excellent job. I'm not sure what its exact filtration spec is, but it is probably somewhere around 1 micron (more or less - anyone know what it is?). The AF-22 LN works very well, and surprisingly doesn't make much more noise than my old 1/2hp dust collector. Its only downside is that it isn't a two-stage collector like a cyclone, so anything you suck up goes through the blower. I don't use it to vacuum to floor (nails, staples, stray cats). My unit is on a stand with wheels, and I find that convenient in my shop as I store plywood on the wall behind it and probably helps keep the noise from amplifying into the building structure. The left side of the stand/cart, under the motor, is open and beggint to be put to use, so I keep my Fein Turbo vacuum there. One last note on this unit - there is an adjustable vane to direct shavings into just one bag, or both simultaneously. This could be useful if you usually compost your shavings, but want to keep certain toxic woods out of the pile. ..Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Kusterer <spkerer@...> To: <felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 1:21 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] I'm engaged...
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Re: Locating DC and air compressor in same space?
Charlie Norton
I thought air compressors had intake filters. These filters won't handle
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paint or extremely dusty air, but they should handle the air out of an Oneida just fine. Come to think of it, the air out of the Oneida is probably among the cleanest in the shop! At least it would be in my shop. -----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kusterer <spkerer@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Friday, April 21, 2000 4:33 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Locating DC and air compressor in same space? I have a space that fit both the dust collector and air compressor.felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: Locating DC and air compressor in same space?
Philip Tamarkin
Steve! Air comes out clean enough from the Oneida, and I assume you have some kind of
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intake filter on your compressor as well, so everything ought to be ok! -Philip Steve Kusterer wrote: I have a space that fit both the dust collector and air compressor. |
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