Re: How to install the gas spring for the main blade assembly
Wow, I don’t envy you. I am not in the shop but that looks difficult. The only thing I can think of is really strong zip tight. Upon assembly you can simply cut them. If you go slowly towards the final length you will not go over. It should be easy to compress it outside with K Body clamp.
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On Jan 31, 2025, at 5:32?PM, marrtw via groups.io <tmarr8@...> wrote: ?
While performing maintenance on my K975, I noticed the gas spring for the main blade assembly was leaking. I ordered a replacement and am now trying to reattach it. The spring is rated at 400NM and requires approximately 100 pounds of force to compress the needed one inch.
?
I’ve considered a few methods for compression, such as using a K Body clamp or a ratcheting strap, but both have drawbacks. Another option is further disassembling the saw to gain the necessary leverage, though that presents its own challenges.
?
Has anyone replaced this spring before or knows the best procedure?
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How to install the gas spring for the main blade assembly
While performing maintenance on my K975, I noticed the gas spring for the main blade assembly was leaking. I ordered a replacement and am now trying to reattach it. The spring is rated at 400NM and requires approximately 100 pounds of force to compress the needed one inch.
?
I’ve considered a few methods for compression, such as using a K Body clamp or a ratcheting strap, but both have drawbacks. Another option is further disassembling the saw to gain the necessary leverage, though that presents its own challenges.
?
Has anyone replaced this spring before or knows the best procedure?
|
Niel,
Would you mind sharing what brand VFD you’ve had good luck with at the 15kW level? I’ve not had need to go that high with a single phase input, but at that level it’s nice not to have to experiment if you’ve found something good.?
Thanks, James?
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 4:49?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Niel,
I lost track of this being a used machine. Even then, with my experience of helping members with electrical issues, many do not have the skills or they just don’t feel comfortable doing such modification. Incorporating VFD into a Felder while keeping all of its features is not straight forward. If VFD is added just before motor, then upon pushing the green button VFD will receive power. Then the VFD will need to be turned on by either the VFD control panel or a remote switch. Similar complexity on power down, pushing red button will remove power from the input of the VFD under load; definitely not recommended.
An easier option would be to provide an independent single phase power source to the VFD and directly connect its output to the motor. Then use the disconnected original motor power lines to remotely turn the VFD on and off. In addition, it would require the original braking to be disabled/removed and that function incorporated into the VFD. But wait, disabling brake is possible on some Felder machines but not all. On my 2002 KF700 it is possible to run machine by disabling brake (requires removing brake board connections and adding a jumper). In my 2006 K975, startup is incorporated in the brake board and the machine will not run w/o a working brake board. There may be a way but it would require some figuring out. I recently helped Morgan Skinner with his B3. His machine also has brake board doing some functions other than braking.
So really not a given that it is a straight forward modification in a Felder.
?Yes I would agree for a new machine under warranty - assume that this machine as a 2014 machine will not be under warranty. As an example my screw compressor has 2 separate motor/ screws and an electronic control. Because I had the circuit diagram I took the primary single phase input to the control panel/display and inserted a VFD to drive the compressors
N/
Hi Niel,
VFD is a good option when it can be directly connected to the motor. Unfortunately, it is not straight forward to do so with Dual 51 or most Felder machines due to the other circuitry involved. In addition, I would not recommend this option for a new machine under warranty.
Imran Malik IAM Wood Creations
I have scanned the answers so may be off base - I have used a Delta VFD 1 phase - 3 phase - on a 15kW spindle with no issues (assuming adequate supply (this was 63A IIRC). I tend to use VFDs on all my machines individually and prices have come down a lot and they are also relatively quiet. I do not use them for speed control simply run them at 60Hz (drill press being the only exception).?
There are many 10hp VFDs that can be driven with an adequate single phase supply.
N/ On 21 Jan 2025, at 02:27, Ty < ty@...> wrote:
Hi all, ? Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.? ? Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate, so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ? ? <20250120_214852503_iOS.jpg> ? Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational. Cheers, Ty
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Hi Niel,
I lost track of this being a used machine. Even then, with my experience of helping members with electrical issues, many do not have the skills or they just don’t feel comfortable doing such modification. Incorporating VFD into a Felder while keeping all of its features is not straight forward. If VFD is added just before motor, then upon pushing the green button VFD will receive power. Then the VFD will need to be turned on by either the VFD control panel or a remote switch. Similar complexity on power down, pushing red button will remove power from the input of the VFD under load; definitely not recommended.
An easier option would be to provide an independent single phase power source to the VFD and directly connect its output to the motor. Then use the disconnected original motor power lines to remotely turn the VFD on and off. In addition, it would require the original braking to be disabled/removed and that function incorporated into the VFD. But wait, disabling brake is possible on some Felder machines but not all. On my 2002 KF700 it is possible to run machine by disabling brake (requires removing brake board connections and adding a jumper). In my 2006 K975, startup is incorporated in the brake board and the machine will not run w/o a working brake board. There may be a way but it would require some figuring out. I recently helped Morgan Skinner with his B3. His machine also has brake board doing some functions other than braking.
So really not a given that it is a straight forward modification in a Felder.
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On Jan 31, 2025, at 3:35?PM, Niel via groups.io <nv@...> wrote: ? Yes I would agree for a new machine under warranty - assume that this machine as a 2014 machine will not be under warranty. As an example my screw compressor has 2 separate motor/ screws and an electronic control. Because I had the circuit diagram I took the primary single phase input to the control panel/display and inserted a VFD to drive the compressors
N/ On 31 Jan 2025, at 15:20, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Niel,
VFD is a good option when it can be directly connected to the motor. Unfortunately, it is not straight forward to do so with Dual 51 or most Felder machines due to the other circuitry involved. In addition, I would not recommend this option for a new machine under warranty.
Imran Malik IAM Wood Creations
I have scanned the answers so may be off base - I have used a Delta VFD 1 phase - 3 phase - on a 15kW spindle with no issues (assuming adequate supply (this was 63A IIRC). I tend to use VFDs on all my machines individually and prices have come down a lot and they are also relatively quiet. I do not use them for speed control simply run them at 60Hz (drill press being the only exception).?
There are many 10hp VFDs that can be driven with an adequate single phase supply.
N/ On 21 Jan 2025, at 02:27, Ty < ty@...> wrote:
Hi all, ? Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.? ? Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate, so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ? ? <20250120_214852503_iOS.jpg> ? Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational. Cheers, Ty
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Yes I would agree for a new machine under warranty - assume that this machine as a 2014 machine will not be under warranty. As an example my screw compressor has 2 separate motor/ screws and an electronic control. Because I had the circuit diagram I took the primary single phase input to the control panel/display and inserted a VFD to drive the compressors
N/
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On 31 Jan 2025, at 15:20, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Niel,
VFD is a good option when it can be directly connected to the motor. Unfortunately, it is not straight forward to do so with Dual 51 or most Felder machines due to the other circuitry involved. In addition, I would not recommend this option for a new machine under warranty.
Imran Malik IAM Wood Creations
I have scanned the answers so may be off base - I have used a Delta VFD 1 phase - 3 phase - on a 15kW spindle with no issues (assuming adequate supply (this was 63A IIRC). I tend to use VFDs on all my machines individually and prices have come down a lot and they are also relatively quiet. I do not use them for speed control simply run them at 60Hz (drill press being the only exception).?
There are many 10hp VFDs that can be driven with an adequate single phase supply.
N/ On 21 Jan 2025, at 02:27, Ty < ty@...> wrote:
Hi all, ? Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.? ? Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate, so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ? ? <20250120_214852503_iOS.jpg> ? Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational. Cheers, Ty
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Hi Niel,
VFD is a good option when it can be directly connected to the motor. Unfortunately, it is not straight forward to do so with Dual 51 or most Felder machines due to the other circuitry involved. In addition, I would not recommend this option for a new machine
under warranty.
Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations
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I have scanned the answers so may be off base - I have used a Delta VFD 1 phase - 3 phase - on a 15kW spindle with no issues (assuming adequate supply (this was 63A IIRC). I tend to use VFDs on all my machines individually
and prices have come down a lot and they are also relatively quiet. I do not use them for speed control simply run them at 60Hz (drill press being the only exception).?
There are many 10hp VFDs that can be driven with an adequate single phase supply.
N/
On 21 Jan 2025, at 02:27, Ty <ty@...> wrote:
Hi all,
?
Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was
uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.?
?
Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate,
so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have
a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ?
?
<20250120_214852503_iOS.jpg>
?
Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational.
Cheers,
Ty
|
I have scanned the answers so may be off base - I have used a Delta VFD 1 phase - 3 phase - on a 15kW spindle with no issues (assuming adequate supply (this was 63A IIRC). I tend to use VFDs on all my machines individually and prices have come down a lot and they are also relatively quiet. I do not use them for speed control simply run them at 60Hz (drill press being the only exception).?
There are many 10hp VFDs that can be driven with an adequate single phase supply.
N/
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Show quoted text
On 21 Jan 2025, at 02:27, Ty <ty@...> wrote:
Hi all,
?
Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.?
?
Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate, so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ?
?
<20250120_214852503_iOS.jpg>
?
Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational.
Cheers,
Ty
|
What is the recommended annual service on these machines?
?
Gordie
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Re: Replacement of internal dust hose is K3 Hammer slider
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:01 AM, Bram Baert wrote:
The model Bill is showing is available on printables
?
This is definitely a better design! I wished I'd found this file before.?
?
Looks like it could use a bit more support for the rectangular part -- increase the flange size for screwing into the metal collector. A bit longer circular flange to attach the hose would be nicer too.?
?
I'll see about modifying it. :)?
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Hi Ty,?
?
Have you considered installing the PP outdoors? I have my PT010 installed on the exterior wall of my Shop. If there is nothing running, I can faintly hear the PP, but as soon as I pop in my AirPods and/or start a machine I no longer hear it. Depending on how/where your working space is located, you could conceivably locate it in a location where your partner will be less likely to hear it, and just run conduit to/from the unit from the panel.?
?
I don't have any experience with rotary converters so I can't compare.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Drawer Sides Best Practices
What hardware are you using? That may affect the placement of the groove for the bottom.
If you're simply asking how to go about it, this would be my answer. First of all i dress all my material to the required dimensions. I make my drawer boxes up separately to the drawer fronts, so essentially i have a front that is the same width as the sides, and a back that is the width of the sides and front from the top of the groove, to the top of those pieces. (The bottom is slid into the groove after finishing and fixed in place with either screws or staples) I set my rip fence from the inside edge of the dado stack to the width of the back. It's a good idea to use a push stick to keep the material against the fence, and use a push block to hold the material down to the table to ensue you get consistent results with the depth of cut. You could of course do the same operation on the shaper, just referencing off the bottom edge of the sides to the groove. If you want to have the shaper set up to run the grooves, and the saw set up to cut all the pieces, that may be more time efficient, especially if you have lots to do.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Bryce
?
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
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Re: Drawer Sides Best Practices
Jamal, I use 5 mm underlayment for drawer bottoms, so the dado is pretty narrow. Two passes with a saw blade is enough, and for half a dozen drawers it is faster than setting up a dado on my saw. I dado all four sides of the box to make sure the bottom is well supported.
?
Imran, that is a furniture-grade drawer box. I suspect many production shops make or buy drawer boxes, and so only the fronts have to match the kitchen style.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Drawer Sides Best Practices
Hi KP,
Maybe not directly related to your question but something to consider. I really like the construction of our 25 yr old drawers. Key feature of interest is that the drawer front is part of the drawer, unlike the common practice of screwing the drawer front to the front of a complete drawer.
In our case, the front of the drawer sides have male sliding dovetails and the single front has the female sliding dovetails from bottom but they only go up as far as needed.
This may be more common than I think but I have not seen it in my limited exposure.
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On Jan 31, 2025, at 12:00?PM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...> wrote: ? Am embarking on making two large vanities for a master bath remodel and thinking through the process of making the drawer sides (solid poplar or maple) and bottom panel.
?
What are your best practices for cutting the drawer sides and the dado for the bottom panel using a K700S saw (with a dado stack) and F700Z shaper - lets keep the joinery (dovetail, etc.) out of the equation for now ;).?
?
Thank you!
?
Kamal Patel
?
? ??
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Drawer Sides Best Practices
Am embarking on making two large vanities for a master bath remodel and thinking through the process of making the drawer sides (solid poplar or maple) and bottom panel.
?
What are your best practices for cutting the drawer sides and the dado for the bottom panel using a K700S saw (with a dado stack) and F700Z shaper - lets keep the joinery (dovetail, etc.) out of the equation for now ;).?
?
Thank you!
?
Kamal Patel
?
? ??
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Re: Replacement of internal dust hose is K3 Hammer slider
Trying to design without the machine on hand is tremendously difficult, been there, done that, a lot. I think the design could be done better and with smoother internal pasage ways.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Friday, January 31, 2025 at 08:43:26 AM MST, Bill Belanger via groups.io <bllblngr@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. My plan was to use that as a model and redesign with a few changes including some way to secure it with James providing feedback. James seemed happy and I got distracted. Not having the machine at my disposal it’s difficult to prototype and I wasn’t sure there would be enough demand for the effort it would take. 4 inch hose would definitely be one mod. Bill Belanger?
On Jan 31, 2025, at 10:53, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? That is for 100mm metric hose, and it says not for commercial use. I would advise a re-design if Bill wants to print them.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Friday, January 31, 2025 at 01:53:14 AM MST, Bill Belanger via groups.io <bllblngr@...> wrote:
That’s the one. Thanks Bram. James found it, and I printed it for him.
Bill On Jan 31, 2025, at 04:01, Bram Baert via groups.io <bram.baert@...> wrote:
Hi,
?
The model Bill is showing is available on printables
?
Regards
Bram
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Re: Replacement of internal dust hose is K3 Hammer slider
Thanks Brian. My plan was to use that as a model and redesign with a few changes including some way to secure it with James providing feedback. James seemed happy and I got distracted. Not having the machine at my disposal it’s difficult to prototype and I wasn’t sure there would be enough demand for the effort it would take. 4 inch hose would definitely be one mod. Bill Belanger?
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On Jan 31, 2025, at 10:53, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? That is for 100mm metric hose, and it says not for commercial use. I would advise a re-design if Bill wants to print them.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Friday, January 31, 2025 at 01:53:14 AM MST, Bill Belanger via groups.io <bllblngr@...> wrote:
That’s the one. Thanks Bram. James found it, and I printed it for him.
Bill On Jan 31, 2025, at 04:01, Bram Baert via groups.io <bram.baert@...> wrote:
Hi,
?
The model Bill is showing is available on printables
?
Regards
Bram
|
Re: Replacement of internal dust hose is K3 Hammer slider
That is for 100mm metric hose, and it says not for commercial use. I would advise a re-design if Bill wants to print them.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Friday, January 31, 2025 at 01:53:14 AM MST, Bill Belanger via groups.io <bllblngr@...> wrote:
That’s the one. Thanks Bram. James found it, and I printed it for him.
On Jan 31, 2025, at 04:01, Bram Baert via groups.io <bram.baert@...> wrote:
Hi,
?
The model Bill is showing is available on printables
?
Regards
Bram
|
Alex, are you suggesting single phase? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jan 30, 2025, at 8:40?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? LOL! Thanks Alex for lighting the mood.
On Jan 30, 2025, at 9:22?PM, Alex Bowlds via groups.io <aabj@...> wrote: ?
WOW! ?I am so surprised that no one in this group, that usually have a pretty robust sense of humor, haven't suggested the obvious other option. ?LOL
?
Good luck making her happy.... and getting your equipment operational.
?
Yours,
?
Alex B.
On 01/30/2025 5:10 PM PST imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
?
Ty,
?
It is very difficult to comment on noise as people have different hearing capabilities. Frequency of concern has a range. Since you have not received it, I assume you have not actually heard it (the beginning of your email implies that you and your wife have heard it).
?
So I suggest you find one close to you. There may be a FOG member close to you or PP may be able to share a user near you (although, I have no idea if they do such a thing). This way you can make up your mind.
?
Mine unit is too old and it makes significant noise only when the fans are on. My 10HP unit, DPC-A10 enclosure is 22”x21”x12” inch and weighs 123 lbs. Current PTE 010 is 60% in size and 40% in weight compared to my unit. This is only possible with higher chopping frequency which means significantly smaller inductors (less weight). Chopping frequency on mine is 10KHz and I imagine newer unit is operating at or above 100KHz. This results in high frequency mechanical and electrical noise.
?
This change may have occurred over time therefore each model will have its own characteristics. The only way to be sure is to hear the same model you intend to buy.
?
I built and used a RPC for years but there are multiple reasons mentioned on this forum that makes a digital converter a better choice.
?
If you decide to go for a RPC AR has had good reputation (my info is a bit dated though). I have heard they ship a replacement in 24 hrs and pay freight both ways. Not sure if they still do that.
?
I would not mess with using your 3ph motor. You are opening a can of worms in case something goes wrong. You have a sizable investment and it is not worth it. Just sell your 3ph motor and use the proceeds to offset the cost of whatever you buy.
On Jan 30, 2025, at 6:55?PM, Ty via groups.io <ty@...> wrote:
Update -?
?
We were ready to pull the trigger on a Phase perfect and encountered an objection I was not expecting.? The hissing / buzzing sound coming from the unit is very objectionable to my wife's ears.? She's got hearing good enough to hear a fly fart, so I suspect from any room (and our workshop and home are connected) she would hear the buzzing.? The specific sound range is nail-on-a-chalkboard grating to her.? ?I checked with PP about the sound dampening kit, and they could off "no guarantees" it would solve my issue.??
?
That was a long-winded way of saying we are back to the rotary phase converter option.? I'm pretty concerned about the power quality and effects of that on this Felder machine.? I'd appreciate input from the group on the safest way to proceed.? ?I have an unused 30HP idler motor available.? Here are the top three options under consideration -?
?
- North America Phase Converter CP-30 ()
- American Rotary AD30 STK ()
- American Rotary ADX30 ()
?
Naturally I'd like to make use of the existing idler motor available to me.? ?AR is telling me that the ADX is the right one, but that requires a specially manufactured idler supplied only by them.? As this is a new area for me, Im struggling to understand what is marketing hype and what is good science.? All three options support the inrush current as measured by Imran for this machine.? All three produce more HP/amps than I need (with some to spare).? Are there other factors I should be considering???
?
Thank you all,
Ty
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Re: Replacement of internal dust hose is K3 Hammer slider
That’s the one. Thanks Bram. James found it, and I printed it for him.
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On Jan 31, 2025, at 04:01, Bram Baert via groups.io <bram.baert@...> wrote:
Hi,
?
The model Bill is showing is available on printables
?
Regards
Bram
|
Re: Replacement of internal dust hose is K3 Hammer slider
Hi,
?
The model Bill is showing is available on printables
?
Regards
Bram
|
imran
Tom Gensmer
Bryce Comer
Bill Belanger