Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
I believe those long set screws are provided to limit the force of the long (silver) clamping bar against the fence extrusion. ?At least that’s what set screws like that are used for on some of the older sliding saw rip fences ?Those screws do not appear to be positioned to adjust the angle of the fence relative to the table surface. ?If there is such an adjustment, it would be where the knuckle attaches to the F-rail along the front of the table.? David Best - via mobile phone?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 14, 2024, at 12:22?PM, Ron Pomeroy via groups.io <rpomeroy@...> wrote:
? <disclaimer - this is my understanding of things>
?
No. It in fact exposed the problem with the knuckle.
?
The mounting (flat) bars need to be parallel (coplanar) to the table surface. Otherwise the fence will rise and fall as it travels left and right. At some point the fence can run into the table surface. ?
?
The nylon screws underneath need to be adjusted so that:
?
A) there is a small consistent gap between the aluminum fence extrusion and the table so that the fence sits just above the table. ?
- This allows an escape route for sawdust and
- it keeps the fence from riding on and damaging the table surface.
B) the groove in the knuckle that rides on the flat bar sits perfectly flat and doesn’t rock so your fence is stable and square to the table. If the nylon screws underneath are not adjusted correctly the fence assembly will rock and squareness will not be repeatable as you move the fence. the nylon screws underneath serve only two roles:
- They provide a low friction interface for the fence support (knuckle) to slide across the table surface without damaging it
- They allow you adjust the fence so that it is parallel to the table surface (and height when used in conjunction with adjusting the flat bar vertical offset)
?
As for the set screws in the knuckle - truth be told - I think it’s a design flaw. Maybe they have a completely different purpose I don’t know about. The rail and fence assemble designs are roughly the same on the Hammer N4400 and the Felder FB lines. ?It’s interesting that the knuckle on the N4400 doesn’t have any set screws. I also had to shim the fence on the N4400 to get it square (again I aligned the rails parallel to the table first). Drift/toe-out was adjusted by adjusting the bolts that hold the rail to the table.
?
If I’m wrong someone speak up and correct me.
?
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
<disclaimer - this is my understanding of things>
?
No. It in fact exposed the problem with the knuckle.
?
The mounting (flat) bars need to be parallel (coplanar) to the table surface. Otherwise the fence will rise and fall as it travels left and right. At some point the fence can run into the table surface. ?
?
The nylon screws underneath need to be adjusted so that:
?
A) there is a small consistent gap between the aluminum fence extrusion and the table so that the fence sits just above the table. ?
- This allows an escape route for sawdust and
- it keeps the fence from riding on and damaging the table surface.
B) the groove in the knuckle that rides on the flat bar sits perfectly flat and doesn’t rock so your fence is stable and square to the table. If the nylon screws underneath are not adjusted correctly the fence assembly will rock and squareness will not be repeatable as you move the fence. the nylon screws underneath serve only two roles:
- They provide a low friction interface for the fence support (knuckle) to slide across the table surface without damaging it
- They allow you adjust the fence so that it is parallel to the table surface (and height when used in conjunction with adjusting the flat bar vertical offset)
?
As for the set screws in the knuckle - truth be told - I think it’s a design flaw. Maybe they have a completely different purpose I don’t know about. The rail and fence assemble designs are roughly the same on the Hammer N4400 and the Felder FB lines. ?It’s interesting that the knuckle on the N4400 doesn’t have any set screws. I also had to shim the fence on the N4400 to get it square (again I aligned the rails parallel to the table first). Drift/toe-out was adjusted by adjusting the bolts that hold the rail to the table.
?
If I’m wrong someone speak up and correct me.
?
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
I noticed your set screws are fully flush/retracted. ?For fun - adjust them outwards and see what that end up contacting. ?If our knuckles are machined the same they will protrude through the t-slot and contact the long metal clamping nut inside - thus putting pressure on the clamping nut - not the fence.
?
Regards,
?
Ron
|
The T-nuts supplied by Felder can be used for a variety of things including securing clamps and shop-made jigs to the sliding table. ?The same T-nut is also supplied as part of the connection kit that available for the short crosscut fence. ?The Felder T-nuts work fine for many applications, but if you buy??from Felder, you will also need the coupling kit shown at the bottom of that listing. ?That coupling kit comes with a T-Nut that may or may not give you accurate 90-degree registrations. ?User experience here varies. ? If you want actual dimension of the Felder-supplie T-nuts, you can find that on the left side of. ?There are also after-market stainless steel T-nuts that can be purchased from third parties, but they are not compatible with the short crosscut fence system. ?You might want to read through the 61 posts in this thread: ?/g/felderownersgroup/topic/89191815#msg121453
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 14, 2024, at 10:51?AM, jiojio_nc via groups.io <jiojio_nc@...> wrote:
To add some additional info, I have watched the posts and video from David Best, it is very helpful.? David mentioned the T nut can not be just any precision machined T nut, there needs to be adjustments allowed to make it work properly.? I can see what he is talking about from the video.? That brings another question:? what about the T nut sold by Felder?? They look like just a regular T nut without any adjustment.? Are they for a different application??
?
Thanks,
|
What will you use new T-nuts for? For simply securing clamps or jigs to the slider the nuts do not need to be particularly sophisticated. I made one with wood and a threaded insert, and then had a friend make a few up from aluminum bar stock.
?
There has been a lot of discussion about improving the short cut-off fence by making new t-nuts, but that is a whole different purpose.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Could you double check your set screws and where they actually contact the aluminum fence? If yours does can you take a pic? Mine just go through the t-slot opening and contact the long metal clamping nut.
?
Regards,
?
Ron
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
About the set screws:
?
On both of the knuckles I received for my FB610 - the set screws an along a centerline the corresponds to the center of the opening in the t-slot. This also corresponds to the center of the long clamping bar/nut that holds the fence against the knuckle (see the blue line I added). ?As such they never contact the aluminum fence. As they protrude they will contact the fence nut and limit the nut’s horizontal movement - stopping it shy of being able to force the fence against the flat machined surfaces on the knuckle. ?This only results in a loose fence. ?It’s not theory - I just unscrewed the set screws and that’s what happened. ?
?
Are your set screws in a different position? ?Also I find it interesting that in the borrowed photo from Cornelius - the set screws are fully retracted - effectively un-used. I have a sneaky suspicion no one is actually using these set screws - for the reasons I’ve explained. ?
?
As always - would love to be proven wrong. I’m here to learn.
?
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Yes it did show up thanks for the comments !
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Mike I couldn’t see if this link showed up so here it is again. This is the one I was trying not to rectangular one.
Designing and building for 50 years
On Dec 14, 2024, at 10:13?AM, Michael Marsico via groups.io <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Mac – sounds like a good endorsement
?
?
Hello Mike
I was at my neighbor Tim’s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you’re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high
top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they’re good they’re damn good.
I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice.
Best mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
?
I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them?
I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
--
Michael Marsico
-- Michael Marsico
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Ensuring the flat bars were coplanar with the table surface was step zero in my process
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Essentially. I understand drift is a bit more involved topic that includes flatness/crowning of the tires, blade tension, blade wear etc. ?But squareness of the fence as it relates to the cut is what I’m referring to
|
To add some additional info, I have watched the posts and video from David Best, it is very helpful.? David mentioned the T nut can not be just any precision machined T nut, there needs to be adjustments allowed to make it work properly.? I can see what he is talking about from the video.? That brings another question:? what about the T nut sold by Felder?? They look like just a regular T nut without any adjustment.? Are they for a different application??
?
Thanks,
|
1/2" x 1 1/4" bar stock will work, you have to round over some edges on a sander.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 11:38:27 AM MST, jiojio_nc via groups.io <jiojio_nc@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone:
?
I'm new to this forum, this is my first post.
?
I have searched the message for information on the T slot nut design for a 700S, I will be getting the machine in a few months.? I know there has been a lot of discussion on this subject, people making their own and some folks have done a lot of design work.? Can someone point me to a design of the T nut I can reference to make a piece out of brass?? I found one message thread which mentioned "T-nut drawings from hhwoodworking", but I was not able to find this drawing.
?
If anyone has the drawing or newer drawings that I can reference, it will be much appreciated.
?
Nelson
|
Hi Everyone:
?
I'm new to this forum, this is my first post.
?
I have searched the message for information on the T slot nut design for a 700S, I will be getting the machine in a few months.? I know there has been a lot of discussion on this subject, people making their own and some folks have done a lot of design work.? Can someone point me to a design of the T nut I can reference to make a piece out of brass?? I found one message thread which mentioned "T-nut drawings from hhwoodworking", but I was not able to find this drawing.
?
If anyone has the drawing or newer drawings that I can reference, it will be much appreciated.
?
Nelson
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
I think it is the 6" Mirka.? I have used it and the comparable Festool at a woodworking shop/school where I frequently take classes.? I'm saving for one--it's terrific.? Jeff On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 1:21?PM Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression via <airtightclamps= [email protected]> wrote:
Mike I couldn’t see if this link showed up so here it is again. This is the one I was trying not to rectangular one.
Designing and building for 50 years On Dec 14, 2024, at 10:13?AM, Michael Marsico via <michael.marsico1=[email protected]> wrote:
? Thanks Mac – sounds like a good endorsement ? ? Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim’s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you’re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they’re good they’re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice. Best mac,,, martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell Designing and building for 50 years ? I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander.? I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders.? Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them? I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
-- Michael Marsico
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
I second what Mac said.
I have a Mirka 5" RO sander.? It is a good sander.? It's a paddle sander, not a switch-type, something to keep in mind.
I had a 3M, sold it, like the Mirka better.
If you get 20% off coupons from Zoro, you may be able to get a decent price.
cheers,??? Rich M.
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Mike I couldn’t see if this link showed up so here it is again. This is the one I was trying not to rectangular one.
Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 14, 2024, at 10:13?AM, Michael Marsico via groups.io <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
? Thanks Mac – sounds like a good endorsement ? ? Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim’s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you’re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they’re good they’re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice. Best mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years ? I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them? I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
-- Michael Marsico
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Thanks Mac – sounds like a good endorsement ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2024 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep? Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim’s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you’re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they’re good they’re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice. Best mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years ? I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them? I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
-- Michael Marsico
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
As a sidenote, it is to do Mikra it was in the early 2000s. It was the Atlanta show after the show in the evening time. We’re on top of the hotel in a big hot tub and I was in the pool with a bunch of MIKRA reps from around the world all of a sudden Harry of Felder fame walks up to the edge of the hot tub with very tiny speedo on goes into a handstand for a couple minutes and then flaps over into the pool quite interesting. Go Harry.
Mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 14, 2024, at 10:04?AM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression via groups.io <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
? Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim’s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you’re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they’re good they’re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice.
|
David P. Best
Ron Pomeroy
Jeff
