Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Hey Gentleman
?
I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them?
?
I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
--
Michael Marsico
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Ron, if you adjust the mounting bars so your fence is square does it solve your issue?
Regards, Rod
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
I will look at mine tomorrow to let ya know what I find in the bag of parts that came with it.? I set it up once to validate the top is tapped from the factory.
?
PK
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
David,
?
This is what I did, I followed your 2 videos and square it to the trajectory of the slider, than attached a dial indicator to the fence and moved it and checked for parallelism between the fence and crosscut fence.
?
PK,
The additional screws I sent are in addition to the two bolts/metal plates that secure the bolts to the slider.
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
Those parts are what bolts the plate to the slider.
?
PK?
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
Few followup questions:
1)I wanted to validate that after squaring the cross-cut fence to the cast iron, the motorized fence run parallel to it. I used a dial indicator attached to the fence and moved it by 50mm. The dial indicator moved by ~0.003", is that good enough?
First off, you should be squaring the crosscut fence to the trajectory of the sliding table, not to the cast iron table edge. ?Then you can check the motorized fence movement in relationship to the previously squared fence. ?These methods are illustrated in the two videos at this link: ? ??
2)How/where do you store all the shaper accessories? For the cutters, I think to make a 1/2" plywood surface with some 1" dowels.
I store my shaper cutters in a typical shop cabinet with drawers, and installed 6mm plywood backer boards with finger-lift cutouts and hardwood dowels as shown below:
3)Is there any usage to the EU shaper hood that Felder provided with the machine if I have the Aigner bownolder?
If you mean the gizmo shown below, it¡¯s only useful to you if your BowlmouldMaster is the smaller 150mm version and you need to run tooling from 150-180mm and don¡¯t need pressure wheels, etc. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
I was able to fix the issue I had with the swing away device. Next issue I had was the 3 phase EU plug on the machine.
Felder sent me the wrong plug (they sent me a receptacle and not a plug, and they are out of stock for the correct item).
I initially though the EU plugs only defer one another by the number of pins and the supported amp.
I was wrong, apparently, apparently there is a different version for 5 pin layout that supports up to to 144V (250V 3phase) and 240V (400V 3phase). The first one is at the 6h and the latter one is at the 9h.
I couldn't easily find the 250V 3 phase, so I just bough the entire euro plug and replace the one on the machine.
The cost of an EU plug + receptacle is less than $20. In hindsight, why didn't I wire my shop with the EU plugs?
The 50A locking plug & receptacle cost me ~$100, where 63A version of the EU plug and receptacle are less than $40.
?
Few followup questions:
1)I wanted to validate that after squaring the cross-cut fence to the cast iron, the motorized fence run parallel to it. I used a dial indicator attached to the fence and moved it by 50mm. The dial indicator moved by ~0.003", is that good enough?
2)How/where do you store all the shaper accessories? For the cutters, I think to make a 1/2" plywood surface with some 1" dowels.
3)Is there any usage to the EU shaper hood that Felder provided with the machine if I have the Aigner bownolder?
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Leveling the flat bars all the way around was the first thing I did
?
Regards, Ron
|
Re: Version 2.0 Fritz & Franz jig
Very nice JP.
?
I built something similar with Lee Valley stops, the black knob threads into a flat washer in the sliding table T slot to keep the rear F&F jig piece in place.
?
?
The aluminium tracks are held in with T bolts and nylock nuts which allows side to side length calibration.
?
Regards, Rod.
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Jason, no I was referring to making sure that the fence mounting rails are parallel to the table surface.
?
Since the fence is out of square in opposite directions on either side of the blade, it indicated to me that the mounting rails are cocked in opposite directions.
?
Regards, Rod.
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Ron,? When you are talking about adjusting toe in-out, are you referring to drift?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Ron, try adjusting the flat bars bolted to the sides of the table.
?
I bet if you check they aren't parallel to the top of the table.
?
Regards, Rod.
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
OK, the nylon nuts adjust so it rests level to the table, also, you can jack up/down the far end to get your fence level to the table. If those set screws go into the slot and hit the steel bar, that's to prevent over tightening of the center bolt causing the clamping pressure to bow the fence, front to back.
You might want to add some shims to the knuckle where it contacts the f-channel and see how much out of square it is. It could be re-machined, or add a set screw to be able to jack up the low side.
Do they have an exploded diagram in the parts list, or post pictures of the whole thing.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, December 12, 2024 at 12:09:59 PM MST, Ron Pomeroy via groups.io <rpomeroy@...> wrote:
The set screws protrude through alright - but they go through the slot in the fence and hit nut (long metal bar) that holds the fence to the knuckle. A Felder tech was in the Seattle area and stopped by. ?I challenged him to explain how this setup could actually adjust toe-out. ?In the end he had to agree with me (or maybe he was just being nice?). ?As the set screws move outward they just push on the nut and that just stops the nut before it touches the inside of the t-slot - preventing the nut from pinning the fence to the milled surfaces of the knuckle - leaving the fence loose. ?It¡¯s not theory - I found this out by adjusting the set screws across their entire range. ?I think the design is flawed - or the factory is not producing to the actual design - or I¡¯m just missing something. ?If the set screws somehow pressed on the fence itself it would deflect the fence. ?I¡¯ll post some pics later.
?
As for Toms comments about the offering the square to the knuckle face: I did put a smaller square against the face and it¡¯s consistent with everything else I¡¯m seeing. ?I checked the aluminum fence extrusion separately for both sides (t-slot and face) being parallel to each other. ?The holes for the long bolt and knob combo to fasten the fence to the knuckle a not tapped or precise. ?There¡¯s lots of extra room to make getting the fence on the knuckle. ?This doesn¡¯t play a role in the squareness problem. ?the milled surfaces on the knuckle have a raised bit that rides in the opening in the t-slot allowing the fence to lay flat against the reference milled surfaces. ?These are the only thing determining geometry between the fence and the knuckle.
?
I¡¯m in ongoing discussions with Felder tech support to run down both the manufacturing and (potential) design problem. ?Note that the flat bar that the knuckle rides on connects to the table via three adjustable nuts. These can (and I think are intended) be adjusted to change toe out of the entire fence assembly. I think this is the intended way to change toe out. ?It leaves open the question of the how the set screws (not the nylon ones) function. ???
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
The set screws protrude through alright - but they go through the slot in the fence and hit nut (long metal bar) that holds the fence to the knuckle. A Felder tech was in the Seattle area and stopped by. ?I challenged him to explain how this setup could actually adjust toe-out. ?In the end he had to agree with me (or maybe he was just being nice?). ?As the set screws move outward they just push on the nut and that just stops the nut before it touches the inside of the t-slot - preventing the nut from pinning the fence to the milled surfaces of the knuckle - leaving the fence loose. ?It¡¯s not theory - I found this out by adjusting the set screws across their entire range. ?I think the design is flawed - or the factory is not producing to the actual design - or I¡¯m just missing something. ?If the set screws somehow pressed on the fence itself it would deflect the fence. ?I¡¯ll post some pics later.
?
As for Toms comments about the offering the square to the knuckle face: I did put a smaller square against the face and it¡¯s consistent with everything else I¡¯m seeing. ?I checked the aluminum fence extrusion separately for both sides (t-slot and face) being parallel to each other. ?The holes for the long bolt and knob combo to fasten the fence to the knuckle a not tapped or precise. ?There¡¯s lots of extra room to make getting the fence on the knuckle. ?This doesn¡¯t play a role in the squareness problem. ?the milled surfaces on the knuckle have a raised bit that rides in the opening in the t-slot allowing the fence to lay flat against the reference milled surfaces. ?These are the only thing determining geometry between the fence and the knuckle.
?
I¡¯m in ongoing discussions with Felder tech support to run down both the manufacturing and (potential) design problem. ?Note that the flat bar that the knuckle rides on connects to the table via three adjustable nuts. These can (and I think are intended) be adjusted to change toe out of the entire fence assembly. I think this is the intended way to change toe out. ?It leaves open the question of the how the set screws (not the nylon ones) function. ???
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
I've had a FB610 for over a year and noticed the same issue with the fence being out of square with the table. Adjusting the white colored hex bolts that Brian has pointed out corrected most of the issue. However, the alum fence is still bowed in the center (top to bottom). The gap due to the bow is ~0.003" (see attached photo) but it varies over the length of the fence. At least for how I use the saw, this gap is insignificant.?
Regards,
Darrell Miller
|
Re: Christmas in November
Michael and Imran,
?
Thanks for the suggestions. I will clean the rails, and also see if moving the slider clears the issue. I will also pay attention to the saw cover to see if there is a correlation there.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Re: Christmas in November
Hi John, ? I recently commissioned a KF700 and it had the intermittent start issue. It went away with cleaning the slider parts used to send the electrical signal to/from switches on the slider. You may be past this point but just thought I share. ? Imran ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] On Behalf Of John Hinman via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2024 7:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Christmas in November? David, my wife calls me a ¡°gadget guy¡± because I love gadgets and gizmos. I will be happy to share experiences with this system as I figure it out. The PCS is ¡°only¡± $7,500, not $10,000, by the way. The PCS is now working with my 300mm Tenryu and Amana blades, with no issues or hiccups. ?When the technician and I tried a Tenryu yesterday the system would not give us a signal that it worked, but apparently that was because the PCS was not set up correctly and not because the blade was not compatible. The only issue I am still trying to resolve is an intermittent failure to start. I have not identified the conditions that cause it, but the saw simply does not respond to the ¡°start¡± button. Turning the main power switch off and on, which re-boots the computer, gets me going again. I have a call in to the technician, as that is not acceptable behavior. John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
The picture posted shows the adjustment for square. The circled hex nuts are to make sure there is no rock or twist in the knuckle when it is clamped to the bar and resting on the table surface. Then the four set screws and lock nuts on the inside are to protrude thru the housing and rest against the fence extrusion and adjust for square to the table. You just need to adjust those to solve your problem.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, December 12, 2024 at 04:34:19 AM MST, Tom Trees via groups.io <tomgwoodworks@...> wrote:
It wouldn't be surprised if there were say, one or two degrees intentionally biased, regarding the face of the knuckle casting,
in order to keep the extrusion flat on the table, when it's cinched down.
Perhaps that might partially explain why there is such a error... and should this be the design,
it could well be that the holes drilled for the profile connector should have been done before said milling procedure,
instead of after, and those holes infact should be parallel with the fence rail/table, but aren't.
?
I'm sure the folks at Felder, or indeed prospective buyers of such, would appreciate seeing some more pics.
and if you had some suitable threaded rod or long bolts, it might show this up, should such a systematic error be evident.
?
Such may be worth noting, should you have only offered a square to the knuckle face, (without the extrusion attached)
Likely wishful thinking, but worth a shot.
?
All the best
Tom
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
It wouldn't be surprised if there were say, one or two degrees intentionally biased, regarding the face of the knuckle casting,
in order to keep the extrusion flat on the table, when it's cinched down.
Perhaps that might partially explain why there is such a error... and should this be the design,
it could well be that the holes drilled for the profile connector should have been done before said milling procedure,
instead of after, and those holes infact should be parallel with the fence rail/table, but aren't.
?
I'm sure the folks at Felder, or indeed prospective buyers of such, would appreciate seeing some more pics.
and if you had some suitable threaded rod or long bolts, it might show this up, should such a systematic error be evident.
?
Such may be worth noting, should you have only offered a square to the knuckle face, (without the extrusion attached)
Likely wishful thinking, but worth a shot.
?
All the best
Tom
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Christmas in November
Hi John,?
?
Congrats on the new machine. I was in line to get the Kappa 450 x after initially ordering a Kappa 400. But due to pricing changes and complications in my time line I've actually ended up with a K740.
?
Anyway, re your experience of intermittent functioning of the start button - I've discovered on mine that if I've opened the door to access the blade the saw will not start again until I switch the main power off and on again. It appears that opening the blade compartment initiates a full isolation of the saw that requires a full restart - a safety feature I guess (it might be in the manual but I haven't read it all yet). I've never experienced this on other panels saws that I've used at work including SCM's, Martins and Altendorfs.?
?
Enjoy the amazing machine!?
Michael?
|
rodsheridan
PK
David P. Best
Ron Pomeroy
Jason Holtz
imran
Tom Trees