Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Is the planer cover in the 4th image a separate piece that has to be put on and removed to store? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:17?PM, jeff via groups.io <jeff@...> wrote:
? - Model AD515
- 2018
- 114 hours on the meter
- 515mm (20") cutter head
- 8' long tables
- 220V
- 3PH
- Tables do not need to be lifted to use the planer
- This machine is basically brand new and pleasure to use
Asking $29,000 located in Wheat Ridge, CO
<hofmann1.jpg> <hofmann2.jpg> <hofmann3.jpg> <hofmann4.jpg>
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
I suspect most of the problems people are seeing with this blade have to do with runout. You need to double check the runout of the saw blade flange and look for any burrs or dings. Then install the blade and double check the runout of the blade itself. It won't matter how high tech the diamond inserts are if the blade wobbles, and that's most likely where the rough surfaces are coming from.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 01:38:12 PM MST, Andy <andy.raynor08@...> wrote:
This has been my experience as well. But test the blade as soon as you get it and send it back if it¡¯s leaving saw marks. Felder includes this instruction in the saw package.? On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 4:28?PM Richard Csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia= [email protected]> wrote:
I have the AKE version and it cuts super smooth with 4500rpm on my K945s. The funny thing what i've noticed is I've done a cut what may have been a little too much for this blade (8cm thick european oak) and since then the sound changed a bit and some whiny sound got introduced but man it leave a surface like after sanding on end grain. Its worth every penny in my view. I've got it from a german reseller what was even cheaper then sautershop. The important part is to pick up the right riving knife for it!
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
This has been my experience as well. But test the blade as soon as you get it and send it back if it¡¯s leaving saw marks. Felder includes this instruction in the saw package.? On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 4:28?PM Richard Csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia= [email protected]> wrote:
I have the AKE version and it cuts super smooth with 4500rpm on my K945s. The funny thing what i've noticed is I've done a cut what may have been a little too much for this blade (8cm thick european oak) and since then the sound changed a bit and some whiny sound got introduced but man it leave a surface like after sanding on end grain. Its worth every penny in my view. I've got it from a german reseller what was even cheaper then sautershop. The important part is to pick up the right riving knife for it!
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
I have the AKE version and it cuts super smooth with 4500rpm on my K945s. The funny thing what i've noticed is I've done a cut what may have been a little too much for this blade (8cm thick european oak) and since then the sound changed a bit and some whiny sound got introduced but man it leave a surface like after sanding on end grain. Its worth every penny in my view. I've got it from a german reseller what was even cheaper then sautershop. The important part is to pick up the right riving knife for it!
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Jason, possibly a little newer according to this link.
Patrick, the saw in my picture is in the Gutmann cladding factory in Germany. I think the Panhans short stroke slider pretty rare over here. Steve Smith owns one but have not seen any others. A guy on the east coast was selling Panhans for a few years but never had the presence Martin had here.
I think they are better in functionality than the T17 but also a newer vintage.
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Like-new Omec 750CN dovetail machine. 20" capacity with CNC control for incredible precision and control-ability. Cut traditional dovetails, box joints, sliding French dovetails, etc. at the spacing you desire.
Asking $29,000 located in Wheat Ridge, CO
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- Model AD515
- 2018
- 114 hours on the meter
- 515mm (20") cutter head
- 8' long tables
- 220V
- 3PH
- Tables do not need to be lifted to use the planer
- This machine is basically brand new and pleasure to use
Asking $29,000 located in Wheat Ridge, CO
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??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via groups.io <mikelis.vindavs@...> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
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That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
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I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
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The beam geometry and bearing configuration on that Panhans looks to be the top of the pile as far as those vintage machines are concerned. Are they more rare than the T17 in the States? They are rare, but not impossible to find.The outriggers/crosscut tables of those early machines leaves a lot to be desired, i feel. The Martin T75 i had for a short period of time had an underwhelming setup. The rest of the machine is fantastic for the time; however, the crosscut table is pretty flimsy. The crosscut fence was equally disappointing. The Okuma and Kolle examples look similar. The rip fence on the Kolle in question is maybe the most robust looking rip fence ive ever seen, but the crosscut fence setup looks like something Sawstop/Excalibur would put out.?
Patrick
On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 2:40?PM Joe Calhoon via <joecalhoon= [email protected]> wrote: Eric Reibling had Kolle machines on display at the 2000 IWF. They were all sheet metal machines at that point. I bought their slot mortiser. It was a decent machine that I sometimes wish I still had.
They went out of business a few years later. At a later Fenesterbau they had a vintage Kolle shaper on the exhibition floor without any signage or explanation. I guess as a tribute to the lost company.
You will see a few vintage Kolle in German shops and a lot of Baurele. Baurele was a fairly large company. Okoma and Funk were started by former Baurele employees in Oberkochen. Mainly for the angular machines but they also had planers, shapers and saws. Possibly those were made in house or just rebadged Baurele.
Panhans and the Altendorf TR45 short stroke sliders are my 2 favorites but rare here in the US.
They were not cast iron machines but very solid. I like My T17 but the table away from the blade has more disadvantages than next to the blade. Easy for putting in dados and shaper cutters though.
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Joe,? That Panhans looks to be similar vintage to my 684, maybe older? Mine is 1985 according to the machine's tag.
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
I suspect it is the small size of the gullet that is causing the problem. ?Because the gullet is so small, it is easy to load it with the chips from the cut. ?So there are two solutions to not overloading the gullet: ?1) use a higher RPM and 2) slow the feed rate.
Try slowing your cut to half your normal speed ¡ª does that give a result closer to what you expected?
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:44?AM, Mi?elis Vindavs via groups.io <mikelis.vindavs@...> wrote:
Aaron, that's a very good theory, and the shape of the teeth and saw marks would support that. The manual that came with the blade emphasized using higher rpm for better results. I'll have to explore some more when I get to the shop on the weekend. I looked at some more of AKE's product materials and they really boast about the quality of the cut being equal to a planer ("Hobelschnitt"). So I hope it's down to technique that I could improve.
Can anyone take a close-up picture on some of the teeth of these diamond type blades?
?
THEORY:? I am thinking that it's not the kerf size that is causing your saw mark problems.? I think the size of the teeth on the diamond blades are so tiny that it's not able to smooth out the saw marks.?
?
On a standard blade, the sides of the teeth are very straight and tall (like about 1/4" tall).? I think these tall flat-edged teeth are helping to shave the edge of the wood as it cuts into the material itself.? It acts somewhat like a jointer knife which creates a flat non-marked surface.
?
What do you guys think?
?
-Aaron
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
Aaron, that's a very good theory, and the shape of the teeth and saw marks would support that. The manual that came with the blade emphasized using higher rpm for better results. I'll have to explore some more when I get to the shop on the weekend. I looked at some more of AKE's product materials and they really boast about the quality of the cut being equal to a planer ("Hobelschnitt"). So I hope it's down to technique that I could improve.
Can anyone take a close-up picture on some of the teeth of these diamond type blades?
?
THEORY:? I am thinking that it's not the kerf size that is causing your saw mark problems.? I think the size of the teeth on the diamond blades are so tiny that it's not able to smooth out the saw marks.?
?
On a standard blade, the sides of the teeth are very straight and tall (like about 1/4" tall).? I think these tall flat-edged teeth are helping to shave the edge of the wood as it cuts into the material itself.? It acts somewhat like a jointer knife which creates a flat non-marked surface.
?
What do you guys think?
?
-Aaron
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Paul this is all good news. ?Glad to hear. ?I really can¡¯t say enough about PP post sales support, and I believe them when they mention their swap policy. ?Have a look at my post from 13 years ago about their service:?
David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Jul 30, 2024, at 6:15?PM, Paul.H.Denison via groups.io <Paul.H.Denison@...> wrote:
? Hi all,? I just got my 7.5HP simple installed and my machines are running so figured I should report back. The real test will be in use but here is my preliminary update.?
First off, my main issue with Phase Perfect was the inconsistent and misleading information I got from their sales team. Primarily, the claim that the 7.5HP was discontinued and that the software on the Simple units could not handle two motor startups. When questioned, I received shallow and incomplete justifications. I hate to be that guy, but a simple voicemail to a higher-up changed their recommendations. In general, the tech department was much more helpful and clear about the capabilities of the unit.?
The tech said that the Simple unit really just has less options built in (such as capacity for regenerative loads and voltage doubling) but it is not less ¡°robust¡± in it¡¯s ability to produce three phase power. It does have a cooling fan and I¡¯ve found it has no problem starting multiple motors at once. The noise is minimal. I measured it at 42 db, a vast improvement from my rotary.?
The tech also reassured me that they have a very generous swap out policy with all their customers. If the unit is installed but is running into initial issues during use (such as not handling multiple loads or startups during actual use) they will take back the used unit and send a larger or different model for the price difference. You, of course, have to fall within a reasonable time window of use and work with the tech to troubleshoot the unit that is installed.?
I got a 27A unit to run a 14.5A machine. I understand the argument for going bigger for the future, but my shop is small for the equipment we have and it is not sensible to operate more than one machine at a time. So, I just could not justify the extra $1,700 for the unit plus material cost to run a new 80A circuit.?
Another thing to note: although there is not an option for a shut off switch on the Simple model, the same circuitry exists as on the Enterprise. A digital jumper wire is simply pulled and wired with a 5v switch.
So far I¡¯m very happy with the Simple unit and the Phase Systems tech department.?
Thank you for all your input and advice.?
Cheers, Paul
_____________________________________________
P?aul Denison | Porchlight Woodworks Chimacum, WA
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 1:59 PM, imranindiana < imranindiana@...> wrote: Hi Aaron, ? This picture of simple model shows what appears to be a fan at the bottom. It would be nice if an owner of simple model could chime in with details. <image004.png> ? The manual says ¡°Hard starting loads such as fans, conveyors, and pumps may cause the PTS to briefly reduce the voltage on the generated leg during motor start¡±. Based upon this, 16¡¯ planning head and shaper with heavy tooling should be fine. Overcurrent/Motor Starting graph below shows that 7.5HP model can deliver over 50A for 10 S. I think this is more than sufficient if the specification actually represents true performance. ? <image006.png> ? The missing capacitors you identified might belong to the line filter per the manual below. So one could expect more electrical noise compared to the enterprise model. <image010.png> ? As I mentioned to the OP, running a device close to it¡¯s rating does have an impact on life. Someone also mentioned that there might be more equipment in future so a bigger model may be good investment. ? Imran ? ? ? Looking at the manuals, the "Simple" model is significantly smaller in size compared to the "Enterprise" model: 7HP Simple: 17 9/16¡± x 12 5/16¡± x 6 5/16¡± 7HP Enterprise: ?25 7/16¡± x 17 1/4" x 7 3/8¡± Looking at an internal diagram where Enterprise is on top and Simple on bottom, it appears that we have capacitors in the main AC-to-DC power supply on the left.? However, only the Enterprise has capacitors on the upper right for the board that drives the third leg.? The Simple model also does not appear to have any forced air cooling inside the unit.?? On the Enterprise, the big rectangle section in the middle is a forced air cooling area that aids with the other case fans.? I believe the Simple model just does not have room inside the case to put output run capacitors or cooling. This could indicate that the "Simple" model does not have enough grunt to drive multiple motors or start a secondary motor while driving the first motor.?? In any event, I suspect the Simple model will not perform as well as Enterprise.
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Hi all,? I just got my 7.5HP simple installed and my machines are running so figured I should report back. The real test will be in use but here is my preliminary update.?
First off, my main issue with Phase Perfect was the inconsistent and misleading information I got from their sales team. Primarily, the claim that the 7.5HP was discontinued and that the software on the Simple units could not handle two motor startups. When questioned, I received shallow and incomplete justifications. I hate to be that guy, but a simple voicemail to a higher-up changed their recommendations. In general, the tech department was much more helpful and clear about the capabilities of the unit.?
The tech said that the Simple unit really just has less options built in (such as capacity for regenerative loads and voltage doubling) but it is not less ¡°robust¡± in it¡¯s ability to produce three phase power. It does have a cooling fan and I¡¯ve found it has no problem starting multiple motors at once. The noise is minimal. I measured it at 42 db, a vast improvement from my rotary.?
The tech also reassured me that they have a very generous swap out policy with all their customers. If the unit is installed but is running into initial issues during use (such as not handling multiple loads or startups during actual use) they will take back the used unit and send a larger or different model for the price difference. You, of course, have to fall within a reasonable time window of use and work with the tech to troubleshoot the unit that is installed.?
I got a 27A unit to run a 14.5A machine. I understand the argument for going bigger for the future, but my shop is small for the equipment we have and it is not sensible to operate more than one machine at a time. So, I just could not justify the extra $1,700 for the unit plus material cost to run a new 80A circuit.?
Another thing to note: although there is not an option for a shut off switch on the Simple model, the same circuitry exists as on the Enterprise. A digital jumper wire is simply pulled and wired with a 5v switch.
So far I¡¯m very happy with the Simple unit and the Phase Systems tech department.?
Thank you for all your input and advice.?
Cheers, Paul
_____________________________________________
P?aul Denison | Porchlight Woodworks Chimacum, WA
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 1:59 PM, imranindiana < imranindiana@...> wrote: Hi Aaron, ? This picture of simple model shows what appears to be a fan at the bottom. It would be nice if an owner of simple model could chime in with details. 
? The manual says ¡°Hard starting loads such as fans, conveyors, and pumps may cause the PTS to briefly reduce the voltage on the generated leg during motor start¡±. Based upon this, 16¡¯ planning head and shaper with heavy tooling should be fine. Overcurrent/Motor Starting graph below shows that 7.5HP model can deliver over 50A for 10 S. I think this is more than sufficient if the specification actually represents true performance. ? 
? The missing capacitors you identified might belong to the line filter per the manual below. So one could expect more electrical noise compared to the enterprise model. 
? As I mentioned to the OP, running a device close to it¡¯s rating does have an impact on life. Someone also mentioned that there might be more equipment in future so a bigger model may be good investment. ? Imran ? ? ? Looking at the manuals, the "Simple" model is significantly smaller in size compared to the "Enterprise" model: 7HP Simple: 17 9/16¡± x 12 5/16¡± x 6 5/16¡± 7HP Enterprise: ?25 7/16¡± x 17 1/4" x 7 3/8¡± Looking at an internal diagram where Enterprise is on top and Simple on bottom, it appears that we have capacitors in the main AC-to-DC power supply on the left.? However, only the Enterprise has capacitors on the upper right for the board that drives the third leg.? The Simple model also does not appear to have any forced air cooling inside the unit.?? On the Enterprise, the big rectangle section in the middle is a forced air cooling area that aids with the other case fans.? I believe the Simple model just does not have room inside the case to put output run capacitors or cooling. This could indicate that the "Simple" model does not have enough grunt to drive multiple motors or start a secondary motor while driving the first motor.?? In any event, I suspect the Simple model will not perform as well as Enterprise.
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Re: Baurle planer listed on Woodweb
David,
I was told by a Felder rep when I talked to him about my "less than helpful" instructions, "They just assume you should know"! Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 2:08?PM David P. Best via <dbestworkshop= [email protected]> wrote: I was describing them to a Felder rep once at the Las Vegas machinery show, and he said they were ¡°old cast iron¡± and that the Felder machines were much easier to adjust. I replied that I couldn¡¯t say, because in 24 years, the Bauerle¡¯s had never needed adjustment.? Classic. ?¡°We make machines with bendy parts so they can be adjusted - we even give you a parts list in German and you won¡¯t need any instructions.? It¡¯s so simple."
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Re: Baurle planer listed on Woodweb
He was strangely silent.?
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Eric Reibling had Kolle machines on display at the 2000 IWF. They were all sheet metal machines at that point. I bought their slot mortiser. It was a decent machine that I sometimes wish I still had.
They went out of business a few years later. At a later Fenesterbau they had a vintage Kolle shaper on the exhibition floor without any signage or explanation. I guess as a tribute to the lost company.
You will see a few vintage Kolle in German shops and a lot of Baurele. Baurele was a fairly large company. Okoma and Funk were started by former Baurele employees in Oberkochen. Mainly for the angular machines but they also had planers, shapers and saws. Possibly those were made in house or just rebadged Baurele.
Panhans and the Altendorf TR45 short stroke sliders are my 2 favorites but rare here in the US.
They were not cast iron machines but very solid. I like My T17 but the table away from the blade has more disadvantages than next to the blade. Easy for putting in dados and shaper cutters though.
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imran
Jason Holtz
David P. Best
Brian
