Hi Imran:
?
No worries.
No, I don¡¯t know of any available slot cutters or ¡°thick blades¡± at that sort of diameter. However, have you considered that solid groovers (as opposed to adjustable groovers) have a larger capacity? You only need 300mm.
?
For example, this groover is 300mm x 10mm x 30mm bore, and has a cutting depth of 114mm, which is enough for your purposes. At 350 pounds it is expensive, but that is exactly the kind of cutter that is needed
for large bridle joints. Sadly, two would be better with the correct spacer between and then you¡¯d be golden ¨C bridle joints in 4¡± material with no handwork.
?
At least you have USD to work with. The AUD is low at the moment so this cutter would cost me $688, and then postage to little old Australia!
?
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight
variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike
Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be
done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see.
Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?
-
You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
-
I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many
species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
-
That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions
are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us
posted please!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb via groups.io
<blamb11@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 08:52
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Slotting Capability
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are
doing.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given
you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting
me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the
rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here
is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided
to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase
my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Hi Imran, have you looked at the non-adjustable, fixed width groovers by whitehill?? Far less expensive than the adjustable version if you are fine with one width, though with care a wider groove can be made with multiple passes.? The 300mm ones will do 4.5" depth.??
?
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/turn-blade-groovers/CBS013V1/
|
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Imran,?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money
is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder
than mine.?
- You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right
fitting joinery.?
- I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in
very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
- That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable
versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try...
you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to
4¡± depth of cut.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame
are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under
3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like
to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Imran,?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money
is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder
than mine.?
- You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right
fitting joinery.?
- I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in
very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
- That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable
versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try...
you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to
4¡± depth of cut.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame
are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under
3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like
to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
|
|
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
What type of knife system is on that cutterhead? ? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 2:34?PM, jeff via groups.io <jeff@...> wrote:
? You can run the planer with the jointer tables down, or if you're doing a lot of planing you can flip them up, put the cover on, and do your planing. Then remove cover and put tables back down when done.
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You can run the planer with the jointer tables down, or if you're doing a lot of planing you can flip them up, put the cover on, and do your planing. Then remove cover and put tables back down when done.
|
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Is the planer cover in the 4th image a separate piece that has to be put on and removed to store? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:17?PM, jeff via groups.io <jeff@...> wrote:
? - Model AD515
- 2018
- 114 hours on the meter
- 515mm (20") cutter head
- 8' long tables
- 220V
- 3PH
- Tables do not need to be lifted to use the planer
- This machine is basically brand new and pleasure to use
Asking $29,000 located in Wheat Ridge, CO
<hofmann1.jpg> <hofmann2.jpg> <hofmann3.jpg> <hofmann4.jpg>
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
I suspect most of the problems people are seeing with this blade have to do with runout. You need to double check the runout of the saw blade flange and look for any burrs or dings. Then install the blade and double check the runout of the blade itself. It won't matter how high tech the diamond inserts are if the blade wobbles, and that's most likely where the rough surfaces are coming from.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 01:38:12 PM MST, Andy <andy.raynor08@...> wrote:
This has been my experience as well. But test the blade as soon as you get it and send it back if it¡¯s leaving saw marks. Felder includes this instruction in the saw package.? On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 4:28?PM Richard Csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia= [email protected]> wrote:
I have the AKE version and it cuts super smooth with 4500rpm on my K945s. The funny thing what i've noticed is I've done a cut what may have been a little too much for this blade (8cm thick european oak) and since then the sound changed a bit and some whiny sound got introduced but man it leave a surface like after sanding on end grain. Its worth every penny in my view. I've got it from a german reseller what was even cheaper then sautershop. The important part is to pick up the right riving knife for it!
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Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
This has been my experience as well. But test the blade as soon as you get it and send it back if it¡¯s leaving saw marks. Felder includes this instruction in the saw package.? On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 4:28?PM Richard Csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia= [email protected]> wrote:
I have the AKE version and it cuts super smooth with 4500rpm on my K945s. The funny thing what i've noticed is I've done a cut what may have been a little too much for this blade (8cm thick european oak) and since then the sound changed a bit and some whiny sound got introduced but man it leave a surface like after sanding on end grain. Its worth every penny in my view. I've got it from a german reseller what was even cheaper then sautershop. The important part is to pick up the right riving knife for it!
|
Re: Felder Diamond Blade - saw marks
I have the AKE version and it cuts super smooth with 4500rpm on my K945s. The funny thing what i've noticed is I've done a cut what may have been a little too much for this blade (8cm thick european oak) and since then the sound changed a bit and some whiny sound got introduced but man it leave a surface like after sanding on end grain. Its worth every penny in my view. I've got it from a german reseller what was even cheaper then sautershop. The important part is to pick up the right riving knife for it!
|
Jason, possibly a little newer according to this link.
Patrick, the saw in my picture is in the Gutmann cladding factory in Germany. I think the Panhans short stroke slider pretty rare over here. Steve Smith owns one but have not seen any others. A guy on the east coast was selling Panhans for a few years but never had the presence Martin had here.
I think they are better in functionality than the T17 but also a newer vintage.
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Like-new Omec 750CN dovetail machine. 20" capacity with CNC control for incredible precision and control-ability. Cut traditional dovetails, box joints, sliding French dovetails, etc. at the spacing you desire.
Asking $29,000 located in Wheat Ridge, CO
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David Luckensmeyer
imran
David P. Best