Re: Give a Man A Fish..... (Felder Customer Service report)
Great story and happy to hear the happy ending. Please invite this Hero from Texas to join this group. He’ll be in good company with the incredibly helpful and knowledgeable members the group has.?
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All: ?I routinely plane material down to .125” with my Dual 51 to prepare pieces for bent lamination construction…straight grain is pretty essential and some pieces will be devoured by the planer come what may…a bit of extra length is always wise, small bites of .0025 at the slowest feed rate…Terry
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On Jul 20, 2024, at 2:29 PM, ibsenafshar <brian@...> wrote:
By coincidence, just yesterday I was able to thickness plane ash to .3" without a carrier board but less than that the machine want to turn the stock sideways and chew it up. With a carrier and thin double stick tape I easily hit my target .190". This with a 1999 Hammer C3-31, nothing special but the cutters are wicked sharp.
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By coincidence, just yesterday I was able to thickness plane ash to .3" without a carrier board but less than that the machine want to turn the stock sideways and chew it up. With a carrier and thin double stick tape I easily hit my target .190". This with a 1999 Hammer C3-31, nothing special but the cutters are wicked sharp. Images below are the ash, and a slice of afromosia that is .120".? Easy.
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It's just the standard 4kw single phase motor, vintage 2016.
On 7/19/2024 7:04 PM, imranindiana via
groups.io wrote:
Michael,
Thank you for sharing this. I will mull over this when I am
back home. What is the motor size in your machine?
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Michael Garrison Stuber
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Interesting regarding the brake. My martin tablesaw has been having brake errors lately. It will often trip the breaker inside the saw’s electrical cabinet with an error message about it taking too long to brake or something. It stops very fast and I do not know what the exact issue is. The tech at martin said to switch the legs around so the high voltage leg is on a specific terminal but it did not seem to help any of the three times I did it. I have resorted to shutting off the phase perfect to turn off the saw and let it simply coast down on its own since it has an overhead guard above it almost always.?
fyi I have a pt020 that is only a couple years old.?
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Gerry, In my world, 0.4" is not thin at all. Shop sawn veneers are usually 0.125" and guitar parts are routinely 0.08". Your wide belt sander is your friend. I would think 10" lengths should be fine, just butt them end to end while running them.?
My sander has a .125" limit switch, so I have a variety of carrier boards for thinner material. They are just MDF with a hardwood strip glued/screwed on the end to stop the piece from becoming a projectile. It will happen without this.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Table extensions on AD 741. A warning
Did you try opening and closing the outfeed table to see if the drop still persists? If you moved the outfeed vertically to be even with the cutter head, did you do it in the up only direction? You don't ever want to come down to a point with the jointer tables, always take the slack going up. Just a couple of thoughts....
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Saturday, July 20, 2024 at 05:19:40 AM MST, petertheeater24 via groups.io <petertheeater24@...> wrote:
For the first time I decided to use the cast Iron table extension that is usually attached to my shaper spindle moulder to my planer jointer out feed. ?I was planing some 10’ x 10” x 1 1/4 and thought I might benefit from extending the surface to help achieve a flatter, truer board. ?I set the extension up to be perfectly level with the out feed table.?
so far so good and the added surface helped support at the end of the cut. I think I probably always use the end of the outfeed table to pivot longer boards or use it as a point to rotate the board onto its side ready to carry it back for another pass. ?I didn’t deliberately do this on the extension- more so that I didn’t lever it out of level relative to the out feed surface. ?
Next day surface planing up some smaller boards I noticed something was amiss. ?First thing was the stock hitting the out feed just after the cutter on fence side. ?I could pass a board over cutter at the front of the machine but it was taking more from one side than other. ?I presume the out feed has moved and I would imagine this is due to the extra leverage of the extension.?
The table sits comfortably on the cathedral bolts at the front and they aren’t loose ( as in neither have loosened or undone). ?
The out feed tips away from the cutter head by 0.80 mm with the in feed and out feed tables married up at the cutter head.
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Fistly, am I missing something obvious? ?I am really hoping not to have to ?recalibrate the tables. ?I don’t have any of the specialist dials / gauges etc. A while ago I tried to set up a Hammer planer / Thicknesser that a colleague had attempted to adjust. After many hours I failed and had to call in Felder Techs - ???????$$$$$. ?
Any input welcomed.?
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Re: Cantilevered Lumber Storage Ideas
As a structural engineer, I did the calculations before I built it. With a 9-ft lever arm to the resistance and a 1 to 2 ft lever arm to the load there is quite a mechanical advantage.?
One of my early installations was in my garage. I really loaded that one up, and if it failed it would have dumped the load onto my car (and even worse, onto my wife’s car!)
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John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Be sure to ask the rep about noise.? PP saves cost in their lower priced units by eliminating components that reduce the high pitch whine.??
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Re: Table extensions on AD 741. A warning
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Table extensions on AD 741. A warning
For the first time I decided to use the cast Iron table extension that is usually attached to my shaper spindle moulder to my planer jointer out feed. ?I was planing some 10’ x 10” x 1 1/4 and thought I might benefit from extending the surface to help achieve a flatter, truer board. ?I set the extension up to be perfectly level with the out feed table.?
so far so good and the added surface helped support at the end of the cut. I think I probably always use the end of the outfeed table to pivot longer boards or use it as a point to rotate the board onto its side ready to carry it back for another pass. ?I didn’t deliberately do this on the extension- more so that I didn’t lever it out of level relative to the out feed surface. ?
Next day surface planing up some smaller boards I noticed something was amiss. ?First thing was the stock hitting the out feed just after the cutter on fence side. ?I could pass a board over cutter at the front of the machine but it was taking more from one side than other. ?I presume the out feed has moved and I would imagine this is due to the extra leverage of the extension.?
The table sits comfortably on the cathedral bolts at the front and they aren’t loose ( as in neither have loosened or undone). ?
The out feed tips away from the cutter head by 0.80 mm with the in feed and out feed tables married up at the cutter head.
?
Fistly, am I missing something obvious? ?I am really hoping not to have to ?recalibrate the tables. ?I don’t have any of the specialist dials / gauges etc. A while ago I tried to set up a Hammer planer / Thicknesser that a colleague had attempted to adjust. After many hours I failed and had to call in Felder Techs - ???????$$$$$. ?
Any input welcomed.?
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Re: Cantilevered Lumber Storage Ideas
@John Hinman: John, that looks like a sturdy storage solution. My mechanical engineer brain has one question. You mention that the weight goes to the floor and that you only use one screw in the top. Is there a foot on the bottom to support the over-turning moment (torque) on the assembly? I'm afraid that if it's just a post on the floor that top screw is doing a lot of work to keep the shelving from coming down on you.?
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Looking at the manuals, the "Simple" model is significantly smaller in size compared to the "Enterprise" model:
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7HP Simple: 17 9/16” x 12 5/16” x 6 5/16”
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7HP Enterprise: ?25 7/16” x 17 1/4" x 7 3/8”
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Looking at an internal diagram where Enterprise is on top and Simple on bottom, it appears that we have capacitors in the main AC-to-DC power supply on the left.? However, only the Enterprise has capacitors on the upper right for the board that drives the third leg.? The Simple model also does not appear to have any forced air cooling inside the unit.?? On the Enterprise, the big rectangle section in the middle is a forced air cooling area that aids with the other case fans.? I believe the Simple model just does not have room inside the case to put output run capacitors or cooling.
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This could indicate that the "Simple" model does not have enough grunt to drive multiple motors or start a secondary motor while driving the first motor.?? In any event, I suspect the Simple model will not perform as well as Enterprise.
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-Aaron
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Michael,
Thank you for sharing this. I will mull over this when I am back home. What is the motor size in your machine?
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Thank you for all your responses.?
My take is the PP sales team has been blowing hot air into the phone. One sales guy told me that that the 7.5 PP Simple has been discontinued but that is not true. Another said that the?software?on the simple line can’t handle two motors at once. I’ve only heard good things about phase perfect so I have to assume their service tech team is more reliable than sales. It honestly makes me want to re-consider buying from them.?
To answer an initial question, I am a business but don't rely on these machines like a full time cabinet shop does. We timber frame, build about one custom house a year and do occasional architectural woodwork and cabinetry as it comes.?
Re: Breaking I'm with Imran. I’ve heard this can be an issue with regenerative breaking that sends power back to the grid. I know this is utilized on large industrial machines but certainly not my old Felder.
Cheers,? _____________________________________________
P?aul Denison | Porchlight Woodworks Chimacum, WA
On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 3:15 PM, imranindiana < imranindiana@...> wrote: The brake has been mentioned here before but I do not see any impact of braking on the PP. During braking, motor is disconnected from PP but the brake board is using power to create DC for braking, which is not power intensive. So should be a non-issue. Does anyone see how braking can affect PP?
On Jul 19, 2024, at 6:02?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
? Phase Perfect discouraged me from using the Simple version because it would not accommodate the brake and other electronics of the saw I recently ordered. It did bump the price by about a $1,400.
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I’m still waiting on an electrician to install it.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Gerry,
I’m glad you got your electrical issues resolved. ?I remember speaking to you at length about all this several months back.
So some comments your other topics as follows: ?https://flic.kr/s/aHskkF1CTX
I have owned the Northstate Widebelt sander you have for over 20 years now and gotten great service out of it. ?I even posted some videos a long time back on how to adjust the belt tracking, and you’ll find some posts in the archive about the platen and how to replace the graphite cloth. ?The snipe issue you are having is the result of the board coming free from the downfeed pressure roller on the infeed side as the board finishes the final 4-inches of travel. ?There are three things you can do to reduce and often eliminate trailing edge snipe:
- The simplest method to reduce trailing snipe is to manually pull up on the board existing the machine while the last 6-inchs or so of material is being sanded. ?This will help the board not teeter-totter downward on the outfeed side which pushes the board up on the infeed side which creates the snipe. ?Just pull up slightly on the board exiting the machine and you’ll see a marked difference.
- Increase the use of the platen to push the sanding belt down into the board rather than leaving the rubber drive drum to do that work.
- Adjust the position of the infeed pressure roller so that it doesn’t push as hard - this is a tedious adjustment but not rocket science. ?I’m attaching the user manual for your sander in case you don’t have one. ?Page 15 details the pressure roller setup, and its parts #15 which are responsible for the positing of the feed roller relative to the bed under the tracking belt. ?You have to disassemble the roller assembly and rotate the position of #15 180° at a time to adjust their height. ?This is your chance to go fishing agin if you want.
I second the idea of double-stick tape on a carrier board (sled) for your thin short pieces. ?I do this a lot on the Northstate Widebelt especially when using a sled to carry the material. ?Carpet tape is aggressive but thick, and this one might be thinner - I haven’t measured the difference but it’s what I use for this application and to hold drawer fronts in position when drilling for pulls:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QDL9GK/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2
Your thickness planer is producing snipe on the trailing end for the same reason your widebelt is doing it - poorly adjust feed rollers ?You can reduce the snipe by adjusting the feed rollers, but this job (which I’ve done a few times) is really left to a Felder technician - it requires 12” long fingers and a bunch of precision height measurement tools. ?I routinely thickness softwoods to 3mm with my Dual 51 without issue, but I equipped the machine with rubber in- and outfeed rollers with this thin material need in mind (harpsichord soundboards). ?I have also seen the DeWalt lunchbox planer equipped with 3rd party feed rollers which reduces snipe for a couple of luthiers who face this issue all the time.
Hope this helps.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Jul 19, 2024, at 12:42?PM, Gerry Kmack via groups.io <gerry.kmack@...> wrote:
Hi John,
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I have a wide belt sander, and it is invaluable to me for certain tasks (like flattening an end grain cutting board). For some reason, though, I get snipe from the WBS, when I run thin short strips of wood through it.
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Can anyone with a WBS comment on this? Possibly my WBS needs adjustment? Anyone have any experience setting up a North State (it's actually identical to a Jet WBS) sander?
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Gerry
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The switches actually go the same way in both hemispheres. It is just the perspective of the user that is different.?
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John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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That is because electrons travel down in southern hemisphere and up in northern hemisphere.
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On Jul 19, 2024, at 6:52?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Haha! Love it John!
Except that it is the opposite in Australia:
Switch down = lights on. Switch up = lights off.
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Interaction of load and supply is way over my head.
“Switch up ==> lights on. Switch down ==> lights off.”
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Haha! Love it John!
Except that it is the opposite in Australia:
Switch down = lights on. Switch up = lights off.
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Interaction of load and supply is way over my head.
“Switch up ==> lights on. Switch down ==> lights off.”
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Interaction of load and supply is way over my head.
“Switch up ==> lights on. Switch down ==> lights off.”
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Jason Holtz
Jonathan Smith
imran
David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer