?So far digging through the stuff, the worst has been the brand new Kurt chuck showing rust on several surfaces.
I immediately went into triage mode and ignore the rust forming around me like the plague, or coronavirus, and applied WD40.
After vigorous application of Scotchbrie, the functionality remains, but the scars (stain) remain.?
The estimate just to clean up is $20k, to be followed with new insulation, plumbing, electrical, new and repaired plasterboard, and finally painting.
I did find a couple of items in the dripping wet insulation I thought lost.
Again, be sure you have freeze protection.? Winter is not yet over.
Bob
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I've bought many.? It helps to know enough about the machine to ask detailed questions as it becomes more about judging the seller than the machine.? If the machine is rare and I want it, I'll take the chance and deal with the issues.? If just something that
is priced right, I'll go deeper into it but also give myself a decent budget for repairs and replacement.? If the seller gives me a funny feeling I run for cover.
I'll done well and done poorly.? To me it is about the challenge rather than necessity but if you don't have experience fixing and rehabbing, you are better off over paying for a slightly used hobby machine than a screaming deal on a machine with poor pictures
and a seller who doesn't give solid answers.? Some machines are a better choice as the older can be industrial vs lightly built new and you can also buy a level of machine you can't afford new.? I would not buy a used Hammer level machine but a used Format
for the price of a new 700 or a used cast ironedge or disk sander, dust collector, or heavy long bed jointer are good risks.
Dave
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Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
Just to be cute, but not helpful JP,
I suspect a number of foggers might say that buying factory new for them qualified for this distinction.? I hope it is few!
I have a friend of mine who for years has bought used weird motorcycles and cars sight unseen from around the country and has made out very well, until his last deal anyway.? But he is way ahead over time.? I would caution to say he is the most aggravating, pestering potential buyer, with weeks of detailed, complicated phone calls, emails, photos, etc. and intense price pressure, all in a very friendly way.? He is not afraid of losing deals, even for one off items.? And he has a very disciplined approach to what he will pay in the end, a result of serious research before he starts looking.? There is generic sense here.
I expect you will get more helpful replies here, as usual.
Erik
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 19:52, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: Hey JP,
I’ve purchased a number of machines without seeing them in person first. If I remember correctly, 3-4 unisaws, 2 PM72’s, a Martin t75, a Martin t17, a 12” grizzly jointer, an Oliver 232, a northfield Unipoint, Felder KF700, a 500mm Italian jointer, and a Laguna LT20. Bunch of festool stuff as well. It all depends on the deal and how competent you are at assessing something through crappy photos and talking to the owner. There’s some stuff that you just buy and assume the risk because the deal is good enough. For example, both of those vintage Martin saws cost me $500+ shipping. In both cases, I almost didn’t care if the machines ran, because I could spend $2,000+ repairing them and still be in good shape.?
By far the biggest issue with remote transactions is rigging/transport. You might get lucky and have a seller with a forklift or similar on site to handle the loading for you, but that’s only the case half the time. The other half you are on your own and it sucks. Then you have to worry about some monkey carrier jacking up your machine in transit. Finally, the day of delivery you also have to dedicate the day to being on call waiting for it to arrive. One of the only times I used Uship, the guys came at 2 in the freaking morning. I actually think I unloaded the Martin t17 at 2am. It’s one of the reasons I rarely use that crackhead service.?
What are you looking at? As you can tell, most of my remote purchases were potential project machines where the risk was fairly low. The Felder is the one example of it being an ‘expensive’ machine where I would have been in the hole had anything been damaged/missing. Thankfully, it came from an old doctor that barely used it for 10-12 years.?
Patrick Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
Hey JP,
I’ve purchased a number of machines without seeing them in person first. If I remember correctly, 3-4 unisaws, 2 PM72’s, a Martin t75, a Martin t17, a 12” grizzly jointer, an Oliver 232, a northfield Unipoint, Felder KF700, a 500mm Italian jointer, and a Laguna LT20. Bunch of festool stuff as well. It all depends on the deal and how competent you are at assessing something through crappy photos and talking to the owner. There’s some stuff that you just buy and assume the risk because the deal is good enough. For example, both of those vintage Martin saws cost me $500+ shipping. In both cases, I almost didn’t care if the machines ran, because I could spend $2,000+ repairing them and still be in good shape.?
By far the biggest issue with remote transactions is rigging/transport. You might get lucky and have a seller with a forklift or similar on site to handle the loading for you, but that’s only the case half the time. The other half you are on your own and it sucks. Then you have to worry about some monkey carrier jacking up your machine in transit. Finally, the day of delivery you also have to dedicate the day to being on call waiting for it to arrive. One of the only times I used Uship, the guys came at 2 in the freaking morning. I actually think I unloaded the Martin t17 at 2am. It’s one of the reasons I rarely use that crackhead service.?
What are you looking at? As you can tell, most of my remote purchases were potential project machines where the risk was fairly low. The Felder is the one example of it being an ‘expensive’ machine where I would have been in the hole had anything been damaged/missing. Thankfully, it came from an old doctor that barely used it for 10-12 years.?
Patrick
Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Buying a used machine without seeing in person
Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
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On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote: ?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I’ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I’m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I’m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I’ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I’m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I’m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Alex,
Looking at the schematic some more, K5 timer relay controls K6 relay which connects the rectifier for braking purposes. So if timing is off, look at K5. Relay K1, normally closed contacts (21/22) also need to be functional for braking to work.
Also, T2 appears to be optional. So you may or may not have it.?
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On Jan 23, 2024, at 12:15?PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? Alex,
I have a schematic of single phase BF6-31 but your machine should have a schematic that would be best to use.
Both single and 3 phase BF6-31 show use of transformer T2, P1 Rectifier and Relay K6 for braking function. Apparently this is before the current era of using electronics implemented on a circuit board.
Felder usually labels all major parts. If you can located T2 and K6 in your electrical cabinet, we can troubleshoot. I am assuming that you are comfortable carrying out this kind of exercise. If not, an electrician should be able to check these 3 components. The part numbers for these components are in your schematic.
Let me know if you need any further assistance.
On Jan 23, 2024, at 10:59?AM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
? Hi all, it’s a first post on this forum for me. I have the above machine and have enjoyed using it for quite a few years. It’s 25 years old, single phase, built like a tank and is a great tool, but it’s suddenly developed an issue with the braking system. The normal noise when braking was amplified and didn’t stop until it had tripped the rcd. I’d be interested to hear from anyone that may have knowledge of this kind of problem or perhaps experienced the same thing please ?
?Thanks,
Alex
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
Hi Chris:
?
“… we vent to atmosphere…”
HMM? You vent to atmosphere. I don’t.
?
“…using filters is not used much in Australia…”
HMM? Really. All of my hobby friends and colleagues use filters.
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
The Oneida is a short cone cyclone so will not separate as well as a longer cone Clearvue which is generally reckoned to separate to 99%. The longer the cone the more separation you get but by definition the
more inefficient it becomes because the inefficiency is what drives the greater separation so the motor and impeller have to be sized accordingly. Bill Pentz has all the information to build a longer cone cyclone but I have never heard of any problems with
the Clearvue though using filters is not used much in Australia, fairly rare in fact (at hobby level) as we vent to atmosphere and I don't know anyone who uses a wide belt being covered in dust.?
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
Hi FOG:
?
I don’t know how many others here have one of the pulsed-air-cleaning RL units. I have a 2016 RL250 which uses blasts of pulsed compressed air to “reverse clean” the filters. I run all the usual machines,
and importantly, multiple sanders, including the Felder FS900KF (edge sander) and the Format-4 1102 Finish (wide belt sander).
?
The RL250 has zero issues with maintaining dust extraction of fine dust, in so far as the pulsed air system works. I have used my widebelt extensively over many years.
?
However, there is a bit more context you should know about.
?
- The RL250 and up has an onboard compressed air receiver. This reservoir is needed because the cleaning system requires a VERY significant amount of air.
?
- Early on in my ownership I had lots of trouble with chips packing in amongst the 12 cylindrical filters in the RL250. David Best helped me diagnose the
issue: insufficient volume and pressure of compressed air supply. I now have a 550L receiver pressurised between 100-140PSI, with a 30mm supply to attach to the RL250. The RL250 has a ?” filter regulator and now we know why. It needs a very significant air
flow of compressed air to work properly.
?
- Since implementing the larger reservoir and feed, I have not had any more clogging issues. I’d chalk that down to user or implementation error.
?
- Also early on in ownership, I had problems with internal hoses popping off – these are hoses which come from the onboard receiver and distribute compressed
air to the blast nozzles situated directly over each filter. This also led to partial clogging of filters through chip jamming/packing. Felder sent me, free of charge, an in-the-field fix with much heavier hosing and securing clips.
?
- I believe all new RL250 units (and larger) now come with the fix in place. I certainly have had no trouble since then.
?
I hope this helps.
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
I had similar problem with my Clearvue Cyclone - 16"-18" impeller, 5 hp.
About 18 months ago, I added a Wide Belt Sander to my shop... adding dust collection needs on top of my AD951 and Oscillating Spindle Sander. While I have the K700S slider and
the N4400 bandsaw, neither produces enough dust to stress my system.
Clearvue recommended placing a second cyclone body in-line with first, then exhausting into my Wynn double-cartridge stack. The change has allowed me to stay ahead of clogged cartridges,
with the second cyclone body pulling more debris from the air stream. One of my winter projects is to clean my filter cartridges, and they were significantly less clogged than before. I surmise that there is a physical limit to the amount of dust that one
cyclone can handle within an air-stream.
If you want to pursue this idea further, I can send some photos and installation notes.
?
On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 07:01:00 PM EST, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
I too have an older Oneida 3hp dust collector with a large filter that exhausts into the shop to preserve the conditioned air.? It works great for all
my tools includng the AD951 with straight knives, the KF700SP, and the F700Z.? Where it falls short is with the Timesaver wide belt and the horizontal sander.? I find the filter clogs up with the fine dust.? Thougjh I have no experience with the equipment,
it appears the Harvey dust collectors may do a better job of separating fine dust from the air stream before it reaches the filters.? If fine dust is clogging your filters, their dust separation equipment may be a viable option.
Air quality in my shop is monitored constantly via the Grit automation system. The large JET air filtration system hangs from the 16’ ceiling at about the 9’ level.? I have a 14’ diameter Big Ass Fan constantly operating at a slow speed to keep the air temp
at the ceiling close to the air temp at the floor.? It also helps the air circulating so that the air quality monitor functions more reliably.? The Grit Automation system turns on the air filtration system automatically whenever it detects a rise in particulates
above a threshold level.
I’m waiting for Grit to come up with a reliable bin monitor that will let me know when to empty the dust collection drum.? I am also watching the FOG thread that has been talking about vibrating mechanisms that cause the fine dust to separate from the filter
and drop into the collection bin.?
There doesn’t appear to be a perfect solution to chip and fine dust collection while maintaining conditioned air and keeping fine particulates below unsafe levels.
That’s my two cents.
Have a wonderful week,
Alex
> On Jan 21, 2024, at 9:05?PM, Joe Jensen <joe@...> wrote:
>
> A friend and fellow FOG member is considering a move from an RL to an Oneida 5hp VFD collector.? He has trouble with fine dust clogging the filters with his wide belt sander.
>
>
>
>
>
--
Mike D.
Annapolis, MD
AD951; K700S; N4400
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
The Oneida is a short cone cyclone so will not separate as well as a longer cone Clearvue which is generally reckoned to separate to 99%. The longer the cone the more separation you get but by definition the more inefficient it becomes because the inefficiency is what drives the greater separation so the motor and impeller have to be sized accordingly. Bill Pentz has all the information to build a longer cone cyclone but I have never heard of any problems with the Clearvue though using filters is not used much in Australia, fairly rare in fact (at hobby level) as we vent to atmosphere and I don't know anyone who uses a wide belt being covered in dust.?
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
Alex:
I had similar problem with my Clearvue Cyclone - 16"-18" impeller, 5 hp.
About 18 months ago, I added a Wide Belt Sander to my shop... adding dust collection needs on top of my AD951 and Oscillating Spindle Sander. While I have the K700S slider and the N4400 bandsaw, neither produces enough dust to stress my system. ?
Clearvue recommended placing a second cyclone body in-line with first, then exhausting into my Wynn double-cartridge stack. The change has allowed me to stay ahead of clogged cartridges, with the second cyclone body pulling more debris from the air stream. One of my winter projects is to clean my filter cartridges, and they were significantly less clogged than before. I surmise that there is a physical limit to the amount of dust that one cyclone can handle within an air-stream.
If you want to pursue this idea further, I can send some photos and installation notes.
Take Care.
Mike
D
On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 07:01:00 PM EST, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
I too have an older Oneida 3hp dust collector with a large filter that exhausts into the shop to preserve the conditioned air.? It works great for all my tools includng the AD951 with straight knives, the KF700SP, and the F700Z.? Where it falls short is with the Timesaver wide belt and the horizontal sander.? I find the filter clogs up with the fine dust.? Thougjh I have no experience with the equipment, it appears the Harvey dust collectors may do a better job of separating fine dust from the air stream before it reaches the filters.? If fine dust is clogging your filters, their dust separation equipment may be a viable option. Air quality in my shop is monitored constantly via the Grit automation system. The large JET air filtration system hangs from the 16’ ceiling at about the 9’ level.? I have a 14’ diameter Big Ass Fan constantly operating at a slow speed to keep the air temp at the ceiling close to the air temp at the floor.? It also helps the air circulating so that the air quality monitor functions more reliably.? The Grit Automation system turns on the air filtration system automatically whenever it detects a rise in particulates above a threshold level. I’m waiting for Grit to come up with a reliable bin monitor that will let me know when to empty the dust collection drum.? I am also watching the FOG thread that has been talking about vibrating mechanisms that cause the fine dust to separate from the filter and drop into the collection bin.? There doesn’t appear to be a perfect solution to chip and fine dust collection while maintaining conditioned air and keeping fine particulates below unsafe levels. That’s my two cents. Have a wonderful week, Alex > On Jan 21, 2024, at 9:05?PM, Joe Jensen < joe@...> wrote: > > A friend and fellow FOG member is considering a move from an RL to an Oneida 5hp VFD collector.? He has trouble with fine dust clogging the filters with his wide belt sander. > > > > >
-- Mike D. Annapolis, MD AD951; K700S; N4400
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
Jonathan,
Thanks for letting us know this Bindicator product exists.? After googling around, it seems you can get a full kit from Amazon.?
Current price is $560, so it's definitely a luxury product.? It might be on my list for way further down the line.? I'll just have to live with manually checking my bin, lol.
-Aaron
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Alex,
I have a schematic of single phase BF6-31 but your machine should have a schematic that would be best to use.
Both single and 3 phase BF6-31 show use of transformer T2, P1 Rectifier and Relay K6 for braking function. Apparently this is before the current era of using electronics implemented on a circuit board.
Felder usually labels all major parts. If you can located T2 and K6 in your electrical cabinet, we can troubleshoot. I am assuming that you are comfortable carrying out this kind of exercise. If not, an electrician should be able to check these 3 components. The part numbers for these components are in your schematic.
Let me know if you need any further assistance.
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On Jan 23, 2024, at 10:59?AM, alexmoore4@... wrote: ? Hi all, it’s a first post on this forum for me. I have the above machine and have enjoyed using it for quite a few years. It’s 25 years old, single phase, built like a tank and is a great tool, but it’s suddenly developed an issue with the braking system. The normal noise when braking was amplified and didn’t stop until it had tripped the rcd. I’d be interested to hear from anyone that may have knowledge of this kind of problem or perhaps experienced the same thing please ?
?Thanks,
Alex
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David,
I am currently aiming for the 3.2m slider.
i had the same thought about taking the 2.8 meter, when combined with clamps on both ends it is a bit cumbersome to fit 2.4m sheet?
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
Alex, This roto type bin level indicator works well with dust, hog fuel and planer shavings. They are common around sawmills but have an industrial price tag.??There are probably lots of other suppliers.? Photo eye and capacitance sensors struggle in this application.? Dumb mechanical is hard to outsmart.
Here is a pneumatic pressure differential switch that would connect either side of your filter.? I don't know if the pressure range fits your application but the price is right.???
A pneumatic bin vibrator should be inexpensive.? The common design is a steel ball blown around an eccentric track or raceway.? Be careful with these as they can pack material as easily as unpack.??
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Re: Positive experience with Felder Support
KRPatel,
Oh trust me I’ve tried to contact the president of Felder. ?Literally half a dozen times no response. ?Except for the time I received an auto reply stating he was out of town. ?He’s a Joke! ?
In my experiences it’s been simply terrible!
Wade
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On Jan 23, 2024, at 6:13?AM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...> wrote:
?Wade, it sounds ridiculous that you have to do that kind of troubleshooting.? The squeaky wheel gets the oil,? have you tried elevating things at Felder?? I would think they would NOT want you to take electronics apart?!
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Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Hi all, it’s a first post on this forum for me. I have the above machine and have enjoyed using it for quite a few years. It’s 25 years old, single phase, built like a tank and is a great tool, but it’s suddenly developed an issue with the braking system. The normal noise when braking was amplified and didn’t stop until it had tripped the rcd. I’d be interested to hear from anyone that may have knowledge of this kind of problem or perhaps experienced the same thing please ?
?Thanks,
Alex
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Try this, it’s called Moen Flo. My daughter works in the remodeling industry and they install quite a few of these, especially for people that don’t live full time at the property. It detects any unusual amount of water Flo and shuts off your main supply, then notifies you by phone of what is going on.
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imran
David Luckensmeyer
Jonathan Smith