Re: A3-31 setup and calibration
Thanks. The document is perfectly matched to my almost 20 year old a3-31 and I'm glad to have it because of the detail it provides.
I was just curious about why it is so specific about the cutterhead to outfeed height difference since I haven't seen that level of specificity in other jointers I've worked with (I am admittedly working with a very small sample size). Especially since setting the knife height is a separate step. Brian's answer about potentially making the blades weaker/prone to chatter made sense to me. ?
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Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer
They had the Hofmann J/P and two shapers at IWF in 2020.? Utterly beautiful!? (not cheap!) They had signed up too late for a booth on the main machinery floor, so were located more obscurely amongst the cabinet/finishing area.? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of joelgelman via groups.io Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 12:58 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer ? On the TP300, which should be extremely similar to the T32, it is only when the planer table is lowered to over 5.5 inches or so that the part as shown in the yellow area of the attached photo will not hit the planer table as you lower the flip up jointer tables. ?A nice feature for sure to be able to not have to lower the planer table to use it as a jointer.
As for high end JPs....?
.... the most interesting to me is the Hofmann (see links). ?I do not believe it is UL listed and I do not think one has never been sold in the United States (I could be mistaken). ?I have never seen one. ?However, interesting that it seems you can go from jointer to planer without raising the table.
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Re: Felder ¡°Technical Support¡± is a bad joke
Gerry, I've forwarded your post to a contact at Felder USA, hopefully you receive a call or email from them........Regards, Rod.
P.S. With so many people at Ligna it may take a few days for a response.
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Re: A3-31 setup and calibration
Hi, that's a document that's almost 20 years old. If you're trying to setup a machine with the cartridge knife system (what this document is intended for) then it needs to be set correctly to that specification.
This ensures that the knife carriers are in the correct location in the cutterhead, with proper support for the knives. (The head is MAN rated if adjusted properly)
Once you have the cutterhead to outfeed table height set correctly, you then adjust the knife carriers for the correct knife projection above the outfeed table.
If you're doing a Silent Power spiral head adjustment you set the cutters 0.01 to 0.04mm above the outfeed table at hinge and operators side.
Regards, Rod.
Regards, Rod.
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Yes Joe,
Rudy is his name.? He told me recently about moving a huge piece of lead that was part of a sailboat keel.? Sounded like quite an adventure!
Marlowe?
Marlowe,
I learned a lot from your unpacking of the Panhans.? Mac¡¯s crating was excellent and the way he used lumber to secure the pieces parts in the crate was revelatory for me. ?
Your rigging friend made moving that heavy jointer off the pallet easy.? I had a hard time believing how easily he could safely move the machine with simple tools and lots of experience.? Was his name Rudy?
Joe
? BTW, I? bought the Panhans from Mac.? One of my best machinery purchases, and certainly the best freight prep ever...
Marlowe? On Tue, May 16, 2023, 8:27 AM Marlowe McGraw via <marlomcgraw= [email protected]> wrote: Joe,
I found the M42 Tersa knives to be disappointing as well.? I bought carbide to replace them.
I could not part with my marvelous Panhans jointer but an stuck with straight knives there.? I mostly run carbide knives there, but even those knick even though I strive to remove as much debris as possible.?
I would welcome a Tersa head there, but don't know if custom heads are available even if I could stomach the down time of a measurement/reinstall and wait for completion.?
Marlowe
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So, I'm hearing that the Minimax FS41ES and FS52ES have the excellent parallelogram jointer design.?? How do the lower end FS41E / FS41C range compare?? Does anyone know?
-Aaron
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Marlowe,
I learned a lot from your unpacking of the Panhans. ?Mac¡¯s crating was excellent and the way he used lumber to secure the pieces parts in the crate was revelatory for me. ?
Your rigging friend made moving that heavy jointer off the pallet easy. ?I had a hard time believing how easily he could safely move the machine with simple tools and lots of experience. ?Was his name Rudy?
Joe
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On May 16, 2023, at 9:32 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? BTW, I? bought the Panhans from Mac.? One of my best machinery purchases, and certainly the best freight prep ever...
Marlowe? On Tue, May 16, 2023, 8:27 AM Marlowe McGraw via <marlomcgraw= [email protected]> wrote: Joe,
I found the M42 Tersa knives to be disappointing as well.? I bought carbide to replace them.
I could not part with my marvelous Panhans jointer but an stuck with straight knives there.? I mostly run carbide knives there, but even those knick even though I strive to remove as much debris as possible.?
I would welcome a Tersa head there, but don't know if custom heads are available even if I could stomach the down time of a measurement/reinstall and wait for completion.?
Marlowe
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yeah, I have the same impression that SCM's J/P and CNC shaper is better than Felder's. If I were to upgrade, for sure I would buy SCM.
James
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 2:26?AM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Nice summary PK! Thanks. All this positive talk about SCM makes me wonder whether I should be looking more closely at that marquee for future purchases.
?
?
Boy,
I stopped reading this when it got good!
In order - all in different machines:
-
I had a byrd head smaller diameter, It was OK.
-
I had a silent power head, it was significantly better than the byrd head.
-
I had a tersa head, It was a bit louder than the silent power, but not much.? Some issues with complex grain, but a great finish overall.
-
I have a Xylent head now and seems like it is a good as the Silent power head.
The Tersa head was a COST option on my SCM.? About the same cost as the Xylent head.
If I would have had experience with the Tersa head before I ordered the SCM the choice would have been more difficult.
As a home shop, for me, two things do matter.? The quieter the better for my neighbors (although they have never complained) and the smaller chips in the dust collector makes it easier to dispose of it in my trash cans.
But for me to rationalize cost and/or labor hours over a cutterhead as a one man shop is a difficult exercise.? I am spending thousands of dollars on tooling for cope and stick doors that I may never amortize.
I do this to enjoy my time, and I enjoy listening to all of you!
Have an amazing night!
PK??
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Marlowe,
Mac is Meister quality in all his dealings!
Joe
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BTW, I? bought the Panhans from Mac.? One of my best machinery purchases, and certainly the best freight prep ever...
Marlowe?
On Tue, May 16, 2023, 8:27 AM Marlowe McGraw via <marlomcgraw= [email protected]> wrote: Joe,
I found the M42 Tersa knives to be disappointing as well.? I bought carbide to replace them.
I could not part with my marvelous Panhans jointer but an stuck with straight knives there.? I mostly run carbide knives there, but even those knick even though I strive to remove as much debris as possible.?
I would welcome a Tersa head there, but don't know if custom heads are available even if I could stomach the down time of a measurement/reinstall and wait for completion.?
Marlowe?
I¡¯ve been using Tersa in my jointer, planer and S4S machine for over 20 years now. Architectural woodwork, doors and windows. It¡¯s great for that and would not change for that type work. I do think the spirals are better for figured wood and if I had a steady diet of that would consider the spiral. With the Tersa I have good luck with difficult grain by slowing the feed down. I played around with the Martin jointer with a spiral at IWF and liked the finish coming off that. Not planning any upgrades in my future but would certainly consider spiral if I were.
A couple local shops here have the top end SCM and Martin spirals and both are happy campers with those. In my work the M42 Tersa was just not holding up and have ended up using coated and carbide tersa. My favorites have been from Leitz and the coated Kanafusa knives. The carbides can be resharpened (not cheaply) and that extends the life.
At present I have carbide in the jointer but because of hand feeding they are a little blunt and going back to coated HSS in that one. I have always run 2 knives in the 4 knife heads. Don¡¯t know what the shavings look like as I never see them.
With carbide in the S4S machine I can run 8 to12 thousand LF before turning the knives. Without any nicks.
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Joe,
I found the M42 Tersa knives to be disappointing as well.? I bought carbide to replace them.
I could not part with my marvelous Panhans jointer but an stuck with straight knives there.? I mostly run carbide knives there, but even those knick even though I strive to remove as much debris as possible.?
I would welcome a Tersa head there, but don't know if custom heads are available even if I could stomach the down time of a measurement/reinstall and wait for completion.?
Marlowe?
I¡¯ve been using Tersa in my jointer, planer and S4S machine for over 20 years now. Architectural woodwork, doors and windows. It¡¯s great for that and would not change for that type work. I do think the spirals are better for figured wood and if I had a steady diet of that would consider the spiral. With the Tersa I have good luck with difficult grain by slowing the feed down. I played around with the Martin jointer with a spiral at IWF and liked the finish coming off that. Not planning any upgrades in my future but would certainly consider spiral if I were.
A couple local shops here have the top end SCM and Martin spirals and both are happy campers with those. In my work the M42 Tersa was just not holding up and have ended up using coated and carbide tersa. My favorites have been from Leitz and the coated Kanafusa knives. The carbides can be resharpened (not cheaply) and that extends the life.
At present I have carbide in the jointer but because of hand feeding they are a little blunt and going back to coated HSS in that one. I have always run 2 knives in the 4 knife heads. Don¡¯t know what the shavings look like as I never see them.
With carbide in the S4S machine I can run 8 to12 thousand LF before turning the knives. Without any nicks.
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Forgot to attach images
    Designing and building for 50 years
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On May 16, 2023, at 8:17 AM, mac campshure <mac512002@...> wrote:
? Old school here? A couple years ago I sold a few machines to a co in NY . I couldn¡¯t locate the info on the polish machine at the time .? I found it yesterday and sending out to jim.? I have owned a lot of jointer over the years this DSZA was a favorite . They are Nathan¡¯s if you can find . My Okoma 630 is know my favorite . They all have 2 knife 6000 rpm¡¯s, I have a 25¡± set up fixture for knife set that makes the task simple . Always have a back up set .? Newer planner favorites EMA 630 all time hands down favorite Buss 40¡±. mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years On May 16, 2023, at 7:58 AM, Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...> wrote:
?I¡¯ve been using Tersa in my jointer, planer and S4S machine for over 20 years now. Architectural woodwork, doors and windows. It¡¯s great for that and would not change for that type work. I do think the spirals are better for figured wood and if I had a steady diet of that would consider the spiral. With the Tersa I have good luck with difficult grain by slowing the feed down. I played around with the Martin jointer with a spiral at IWF and liked the finish coming off that. Not planning any upgrades in my future but would certainly consider spiral if I were.
A couple local shops here have the top end SCM and Martin spirals and both are happy campers with those. In my work the M42 Tersa was just not holding up and have ended up using coated and carbide tersa. My favorites have been from Leitz and the coated Kanafusa knives. The carbides can be resharpened (not cheaply) and that extends the life.
At present I have carbide in the jointer but because of hand feeding they are a little blunt and going back to coated HSS in that one. I have always run 2 knives in the 4 knife heads. Don¡¯t know what the shavings look like as I never see them.
With carbide in the S4S machine I can run 8 to12 thousand LF before turning the knives. Without any nicks.
|
Old school here? A couple years ago I sold a few machines to a co in NY . I couldn¡¯t locate the info on the polish machine at the time .? I found it yesterday and sending out to jim.? I have owned a lot of jointer over the years this DSZA was a favorite . They are Nathan¡¯s if you can find . My Okoma 630 is know my favorite . They all have 2 knife 6000 rpm¡¯s, I have a 25¡± set up fixture for knife set that makes the task simple . Always have a back up set .? Newer planner favorites EMA 630 all time hands down favorite Buss 40¡±. mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
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On May 16, 2023, at 7:58 AM, Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...> wrote:
?I¡¯ve been using Tersa in my jointer, planer and S4S machine for over 20 years now. Architectural woodwork, doors and windows. It¡¯s great for that and would not change for that type work. I do think the spirals are better for figured wood and if I had a steady diet of that would consider the spiral. With the Tersa I have good luck with difficult grain by slowing the feed down. I played around with the Martin jointer with a spiral at IWF and liked the finish coming off that. Not planning any upgrades in my future but would certainly consider spiral if I were.
A couple local shops here have the top end SCM and Martin spirals and both are happy campers with those. In my work the M42 Tersa was just not holding up and have ended up using coated and carbide tersa. My favorites have been from Leitz and the coated Kanafusa knives. The carbides can be resharpened (not cheaply) and that extends the life.
At present I have carbide in the jointer but because of hand feeding they are a little blunt and going back to coated HSS in that one. I have always run 2 knives in the 4 knife heads. Don¡¯t know what the shavings look like as I never see them.
With carbide in the S4S machine I can run 8 to12 thousand LF before turning the knives. Without any nicks.
|
I¡¯ve been using Tersa in my jointer, planer and S4S machine for over 20 years now. Architectural woodwork, doors and windows. It¡¯s great for that and would not change for that type work. I do think the spirals are better for figured wood and if I had a steady diet of that would consider the spiral. With the Tersa I have good luck with difficult grain by slowing the feed down. I played around with the Martin jointer with a spiral at IWF and liked the finish coming off that. Not planning any upgrades in my future but would certainly consider spiral if I were.
A couple local shops here have the top end SCM and Martin spirals and both are happy campers with those. In my work the M42 Tersa was just not holding up and have ended up using coated and carbide tersa. My favorites have been from Leitz and the coated Kanafusa knives. The carbides can be resharpened (not cheaply) and that extends the life.
At present I have carbide in the jointer but because of hand feeding they are a little blunt and going back to coated HSS in that one. I have always run 2 knives in the 4 knife heads. Don¡¯t know what the shavings look like as I never see them.
With carbide in the S4S machine I can run 8 to12 thousand LF before turning the knives. Without any nicks.
|
I have two planers, both with 125mm cutting circle.? ?I recently replaced the standard head, which I ran both solid carbide knives and Esta knives, with a Byrd Shelix.? The cut quality is superb.? As others have noted, I may see a reduction after resin build up/rotation, time will tell. I
My other planer has a Tersa head.? It provides a great finish but with more tear out in figured woods (which I use often).
In my world,? removal of tear out can eat up fair amount time and should be considered in the choice.? The rapid shift of knives in the Tersa is a great plus, as we all know knives knick before they require sharpening or replacement.?
The Byrd helps immensely in reducing the frequency of my most dreaded task, emptying dust drums.? The planer shavings drop into a pair of 55 gallon drums, but it's still far too often..?
I am so aggravated by the whole process that I bought a three bag Dustek collector that I will place outside and connect only to the jointer and planers.
Marlowe McGraw?
On Tue, May 16, 2023, 1:26 AM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Nice summary PK! Thanks. All this positive talk about SCM makes me wonder whether I should be looking more closely at that marquee for future purchases.
?
?
Boy,
I stopped reading this when it got good!
In order - all in different machines:
-
I had a byrd head smaller diameter, It was OK.
-
I had a silent power head, it was significantly better than the byrd head.
-
I had a tersa head, It was a bit louder than the silent power, but not much.? Some issues with complex grain, but a great finish overall.
-
I have a Xylent head now and seems like it is a good as the Silent power head.
The Tersa head was a COST option on my SCM.? About the same cost as the Xylent head.
If I would have had experience with the Tersa head before I ordered the SCM the choice would have been more difficult.
As a home shop, for me, two things do matter.? The quieter the better for my neighbors (although they have never complained) and the smaller chips in the dust collector makes it easier to dispose of it in my trash cans.
But for me to rationalize cost and/or labor hours over a cutterhead as a one man shop is a difficult exercise.? I am spending thousands of dollars on tooling for cope and stick doors that I may never amortize.
I do this to enjoy my time, and I enjoy listening to all of you!
Have an amazing night!
PK??
|
Nice summary PK! Thanks. All this positive talk about SCM makes me wonder whether I should be looking more closely at that marquee for future purchases.
?
?
Boy,
I stopped reading this when it got good!
In order - all in different machines:
-
I had a byrd head smaller diameter, It was OK.
-
I had a silent power head, it was significantly better than the byrd head.
-
I had a tersa head, It was a bit louder than the silent power, but not much.? Some issues with complex grain, but a great finish overall.
-
I have a Xylent head now and seems like it is a good as the Silent power head.
The Tersa head was a COST option on my SCM.? About the same cost as the Xylent head.
If I would have had experience with the Tersa head before I ordered the SCM the choice would have been more difficult.
As a home shop, for me, two things do matter.? The quieter the better for my neighbors (although they have never complained) and the smaller chips in the dust collector makes it easier to dispose of it in my trash cans.
But for me to rationalize cost and/or labor hours over a cutterhead as a one man shop is a difficult exercise.? I am spending thousands of dollars on tooling for cope and stick doors that I may never amortize.
I do this to enjoy my time, and I enjoy listening to all of you!
Have an amazing night!
PK??
|
Boy, I stopped reading this when it got good! In order - all in different machines:
- I had a byrd head smaller diameter, It was OK.
- I had a silent power head, it was significantly better than the byrd head.
- I had a tersa head, It was a bit louder than the silent power, but not much.? Some issues with complex grain, but a great finish overall.
- I have a Xylent head now and seems like it is a good as the Silent power head.
The Tersa head was a COST option on my SCM.? About the same cost as the Xylent head. If I would have had experience with the Tersa head before I ordered the SCM the choice would have been more difficult. As a home shop, for me, two things do matter.? The quieter the better for my neighbors (although they have never complained) and the smaller chips in the dust collector makes it easier to dispose of it in my trash cans. But for me to rationalize cost and/or labor hours over a cutterhead as a one man shop is a difficult exercise.? I am spending thousands of dollars on tooling for cope and stick doors that I may never amortize. I do this to enjoy my time, and I enjoy listening to all of you! Have an amazing night! PK??
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Re: A3-31 setup and calibration
If your hand hits you will know the difference. Designing and building for 50 years
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On May 15, 2023, at 6:29 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? It relates to how far the blade holders end up holding the indexable blades above the diameter of the cutting head. I can¡¯t say the .020¡± is too much, but it does make the blade weaker and more prone to chatter sticking out further.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On May 15, 2023, at 2:55 PM, Richard <rirving@...> wrote:
As I go back through re-calibrating my A3-31, I'm checking everything is setup correctly rather than just addressing the immediate problem. As I revisit the setup guide here: /g/felderownersgroup/files/Manuals%20&%20Drawings/Hammer%20Machine%20Setup%20Guide.pdfPage 74 calls for an overall height between cutterblock and outfeed table of between -.028" to -.036". This variance never mattered when I was setting up jointers with dovetail ways as far as I remember. So I am curious if anyone in this group knows if this really matters here? Mine is at -.053", so pretty far out of spec, but I'm trying to trace the logic of how reducing it by .02" is really going to help here.
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Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer
PK,
¡that would qualify as ? never a dull moment ? ?
Regards,
Jacques
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A couple days late jumping in on this topic to share my experience. I have had a Minimax FS 52es for several months, and am 100%b satisfied. Before purchase I was considering this machine or the Felder Dual 51. I consulted with several owners of both machines, including FOG expert members and Sam Blasco at SCM. The price of the two machines was very close, the FS 52es a little more than the Dual 51. Do not be put of by the "Minimax" label - the FS 52es is not "mini" in any way. As David Best has pointed out, the FS 52es' parallelogram jointer table suspension system is superior to the value engineered system on the Dual 51. The machine is very robust, and arrived in perfect condition and alignment, ready to go to work. Jointed surfaces/edges are dead flat - no concave "sprung joint" edges as reported on many Felder jointers. The electronic thickness control on the planer is accurate and reproducible out-of-the-crate within 0.1 mm, which is good enough for me. Dust extraction is very good, even though the FS 52es dust port is a a little smaller diameter than the Dual 51. There is no need to flip the dust port hose orientation when switching from planer to jointer function. The jointer fence is stout and maintains square alignment. The mobility kit works well and there is no handle attachment bracket sticking out from the machine.? On advice of Sam Blasco, I selected the Tersa cutterhead instead of the SCM Xylent spiral carbide insert head, and am glad I did. I previously had a jointer with a Byrd Shelix head and thought it was great, but he Tersa surface finish is FAR better. For my low volume shop I have no dog in the Tersa versus segmented knife fight and don't care about their comparative costs.? Both are good systems depending on the type and volume of work one does. The straight knife Tersa finish is astounding. and as pointed out by others, the fluffy Tersa shavings do fill up the dust bin faster. Starting with Sam Blasco, the sales process with SCM was great - more informed and straightforward than my previous Felder experiences. The SCM North American HQ in Georgia was good to deal with on order and delivery logistics.? The SCM tech support was very responsive in answering my few questions that arose from the terse user manual. On the other hand, I have also had very good experience with Felder tech support for my K700 and FB 510.?
Don
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rodsheridan
David Luckensmeyer
PK