Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Hi John,
After researching and asking around about the Felder overhead guard, many of your listed thoughts are why I¡¯ve decided to live without it. ????
Thx,
Wade
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 8:01 AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
?This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
John, that's a good list of things to think about.
The Suva design might answer several of the points, perhaps with a hinged side (held down by rare earth magnets) to be able to check blade height and alignment.
I considered using the support tube for extraction but, on balance, I'd prefer a separate rigid plastic waste pipe attached to the support tube, with a flexi to the guard.
Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 03:18 PM, <tom@...> wrote:
the SUVA 91 guard
Thanks Tom, there are some very useful drawings and photos on that link but the price is over ?1,500 /1800USD which is "rather a lot" (British understatement) for a relatively simple device. Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Scallops with tersa are right angle Scallops with helical inserts are length wise or 90 to tersa ? Both have their advantages ?just depends on what u do.? In A hobby shop like mine traditional hand set 2 knife is more than fine. With proper jigs it¡¯s no big deal. If I had a choice tersa Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 9:39 AM, Joe Jensen <joe@...> wrote:
? I upgraded a Powermatic 8¡± jointer to a Terminus (Teresa copy) and ran that for a couple of years. I found the Terminus knives to dull quickly but they were easy to change. ?I use hardwood exclusively and figured often and I still had the tear out issues. I then switched to a Byrd cutter head and I love the spiral carbide inserts. I now run a 12¡± SCMI jointer upgraded to a Byrd and I have a Byrd in my planer. If upgrading I¡¯d seriously consider the Hermance insert cutter head.? On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw? Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
I upgraded a Powermatic 8¡± jointer to a Terminus (Teresa copy) and ran that for a couple of years. I found the Terminus knives to dull quickly but they were easy to change. ?I use hardwood exclusively and figured often and I still had the tear out issues. I then switched to a Byrd cutter head and I love the spiral carbide inserts. I now run a 12¡± SCMI jointer upgraded to a Byrd and I have a Byrd in my planer. If upgrading I¡¯d seriously consider the Hermance insert cutter head.?
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw? Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Re: Saw controls on slider
Thanks for the details David; I see where they are coming from.?
I'm wholly?in agreement about the hardwired stop function-in my mind this is a code requirement (or at least how I typically interpret most codes). They use the table as part of the circuit, correct? That would drive a low-VDC requirement for sure.
James
David,
I am pretty sure Joe was talking about chassis mounted on/off switches.?I shared in response to comment suggesting that high voltage control switches are no longer used.?Also to clarify that it is not just Dave¡¯s old BF6 but even the recent 2022 Hammer K3 uses line voltage on the On/Off switches. ?Is that a chassis-mounted switch or a remote on/off switch?? My comment was related to remote STOP switch.
It was Joe Slater who confirmed that his 2022 Hammer K3 Winner has On/Off circuit fed by line voltage. His post below.
?James, I can¡¯t quote you the specific safety directive.? But when I was consulting with Marin on the feature set for their T60/65 saws, this topic came up and their engineers were emphatic that the STOP function had to be hardwired, and if it were part of the sliding table or safety interlock switches, it also had to be low voltage due to European regulations.? That is the full extent of my knowledge, and it could well be predicated on the fact that the remote switches were part of a movable element of the machine (on the sliding table itself).
On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Jim Dayton < jd74914@...> wrote:
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Hi Dave,?
If you can get the overarm frame in place, you'd be well positioned to take advantage of the SUVA 91 guard:??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Hi Jay, Lucky man to be in that position. I don't have any experience with Tersa, other than my moulder guy loves them on his Weinig. I think one big advantage is how quickly you can change knives, and you can have different steels for different materials. That said, I've been using both Byrd heads and the Oliver ITCH head for years. While the Tersa may give you a better finish right off the knives when new, the amount of service I get out of both of my carbide heads is incredible. I just ground the head in the Oliver for the first time in over 2 years. It was barely tearing out gnarly figured wood then. Outstanding given there are 6 furniture makers using it in my shop.
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw?
Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Overarm saw (crown) guard
I'm starting to put-together ideas for an overhead crown saw?guard to replace the one that attaches to the riving knife and would appreciate seeing what others have - whether commercial or DIY. I'll use some suitable steel tubing for the horizontal and vertical sections and will probably make a ply box for the crown guard, sufficiently wide to cope with angled cuts and sufficiently long to catch the dust (and keep fingers away!). It feels like it might be useful to be able to fit either wheels or hold-down anti-kickback fingers on the guard (so it would need to be rigidly attached to the over-arm, but remain adjustable), and to connect it to the LVHP extract rather than the HVLP one that the saw connects to ... but comments from those who've already trod a similar path would be very welcome.
Dave (in the UK)
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Thus Spoke Zarathustra !!! ??David Best - via mobile phone
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 8:50 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
Since we have a lack of replies here, I'm publishing the response from Felder technical support:
"A 1 ph motor will most definitely sound different while starting, stopping, and running than a 3ph motor.
I certainly don't have access to whatever frequency monitoring software that I assume you friend was using.
That said If he's referring to the noise of his 3ph machine than we are most definitely comparing apples and oranges!
His note regarding the higher frequency noise from the scoring unit "for several seconds" is indeed true. ? Though as I stated this is due to the start winding of the motor still being engaged.
I do not detect anything wrong w/ the way your machine sounds from the videos you've sent."
Thanks,
Aaron
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Since we have a lack of replies here, I'm publishing the response from Felder technical support:
"A 1 ph motor will most definitely sound different while starting, stopping, and running than a 3ph motor.
I certainly don't have access to whatever frequency monitoring software that I assume you friend was using.
That said If he's referring to the noise of his 3ph machine than we are most definitely comparing apples and oranges!
His note regarding the higher frequency noise from the scoring unit "for several seconds" is indeed true. ? Though as I stated this is due to the start winding of the motor still being engaged.
I do not detect anything wrong w/ the way your machine sounds from the videos you've sent."
Thanks,
Aaron
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Re: Saw controls on slider
David,
I am pretty sure Joe was talking about chassis mounted on/off switches.?I shared in response to comment suggesting that high voltage control switches are no longer used.?Also to clarify that it is not just Dave¡¯s old BF6 but even the recent 2022 Hammer K3 uses line voltage on the On/Off switches.
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:16 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? Is that a chassis-mounted switch or a remote on/off switch? ?My comment was related to remote STOP switch.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 8, 2023, at 5:58 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
It was Joe Slater who confirmed that his 2022 Hammer K3 Winner has On/Off circuit fed by line voltage. His post below.
On Mar 8, 2023, at 7:23 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? James, I can¡¯t quote you the specific safety directive. ?But when I was consulting with Marin on the feature set for their T60/65 saws, this topic came up and their engineers were emphatic that the STOP function had to be hardwired, and if it were part of the sliding table or safety interlock switches, it also had to be low voltage due to European regulations. ?That is the full extent of my knowledge, and it could well be predicated on the fact that the remote switches were part of a movable element of the machine (on the sliding table itself).
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Jim Dayton <jd74914@...> wrote:
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
|
Re: Saw controls on slider
Is that a chassis-mounted switch or a remote on/off switch? ?My comment was related to remote STOP switch.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 5:58 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
It was Joe Slater who confirmed that his 2022 Hammer K3 Winner has On/Off circuit fed by line voltage. His post below.
On Mar 8, 2023, at 7:23 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? James, I can¡¯t quote you the specific safety directive. ?But when I was consulting with Marin on the feature set for their T60/65 saws, this topic came up and their engineers were emphatic that the STOP function had to be hardwired, and if it were part of the sliding table or safety interlock switches, it also had to be low voltage due to European regulations. ?That is the full extent of my knowledge, and it could well be predicated on the fact that the remote switches were part of a movable element of the machine (on the sliding table itself).
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Jim Dayton <jd74914@...> wrote:
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
|
Re: Saw controls on slider
It was Joe Slater who confirmed that his 2022 Hammer K3 Winner has On/Off circuit fed by line voltage. His post below.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2023, at 7:23 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? James, I can¡¯t quote you the specific safety directive. ?But when I was consulting with Marin on the feature set for their T60/65 saws, this topic came up and their engineers were emphatic that the STOP function had to be hardwired, and if it were part of the sliding table or safety interlock switches, it also had to be low voltage due to European regulations. ?That is the full extent of my knowledge, and it could well be predicated on the fact that the remote switches were part of a movable element of the machine (on the sliding table itself).
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Jim Dayton <jd74914@...> wrote:
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
|
Re: Saw controls on slider
James, I can¡¯t quote you the specific safety directive. ?But when I was consulting with Marin on the feature set for their T60/65 saws, this topic came up and their engineers were emphatic that the STOP function had to be hardwired, and if it were part of the sliding table or safety interlock switches, it also had to be low voltage due to European regulations. ?That is the full extent of my knowledge, and it could well be predicated on the fact that the remote switches were part of a movable element of the machine (on the sliding table itself).
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Jim Dayton <jd74914@...> wrote:
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
|
Re: Saw controls on slider
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James
FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
With regard to the original question posted by "H:" I've made thousands of rip cuts on my K3 using the rip fence and never experienced any practical ill-consequence due to the fact the slider is, and must be, set a hair higher than the cast iron top. The angle produced is very small, if not negligible, and probably barely distinguishable from the other slight errors and imperfections, like blade marks, and slight wiggles that are part and parcel of hand-fed rips on a saw. So my advice is, ascertain how high your sliding table sits above the cast iron table. Assuming it is a few/several thou, like recommended here, rip away and don't worry about any hypothetical angle issue. If it is much higher than that, then perhaps the angle does start to become a thing and you need to fix that--and there is lots of good advice on making the adjustments in the archives here.
....As you gain experience with the machine, maybe you'll come to prefer ripping with the sliding table as opposed to the rip fence, or maybe you won't. ?But don't throw in the towel on using the rip fence based on an incorrect belief it won't produce satisfactory results unless the cast iron and the slider top are literally exactly coplanar.
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Joe Jensen
Tom Gensmer
Jason Holtz
David P. Best
imran