Re: Aftermarket Digital Rip Fence?
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Re: Does Felder Scoring Blade come with Shims?
Btw, there are other good split scoring blades other than felder, i have a Ridge wich is made by a german maker, Freud, FS tool…
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 10:57 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Apparently only option for scoring blade is Silver which is chrome plated. I believe some here have mentioned they don’t like chrome for main blade but don’t recall the reason. Any reason for me to be concerned?
Anyone, knows they come with shims? Shims are available separately and there is no mention of them being included on the web page.
Something positive. My first order via new Felder site. Shipping is very reasonable (UPS ground $14), yahoo! Just the fact, I know my total cost is a plus as well. Also PayPal is accepted.
Imran
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Does Felder Scoring Blade come with Shims?
Apparently only option for scoring blade is Silver which is chrome plated. I believe some here have mentioned they don’t like chrome for main blade but don’t recall the reason. Any reason for me to be concerned?
Anyone, knows they come with shims? Shims are available separately and there is no mention of them being included on the web page.
Something positive. My first order via new Felder site. Shipping is very reasonable (UPS ground $14), yahoo! Just the fact, I know my total cost is a plus as well. Also PayPal is accepted.
Imran
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Re: Scoring Blade Durability
Well cleaned the blade. Found 1 chipped tooth. Also found the make based upon printed PN. I believe it is following
I am going to order Felder scoring blade. Have some questions, will start a new thread.
Imran
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 8:35 PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote: ? I don’t know what there made of they are there and still work , I may only use ounce or twice a year. Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 18, 2022, at 7:12 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Mac, are your stops plastic or did you remake them into something nice with metal?.? I've found the stock ones are easy to break and are on most used machines.? The dial with the stops works well but you want to be gentle.? Dave
My scoring has stops for height and width
Designing and building for 50 years
On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:10 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?A conical blade is not appropriate for your saws Imran. The saw needs automatic rise/fall with very precise and repeatable height stops, otherwise the scoring saw kerf width varies each time it’s raised.?
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:00 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like
I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions
on this option?
Imran
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest
you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me
think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
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Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
Ping pong table tops, needed 5’x 9’ and then split in half. Had to do the last cut with a track saw due to not enough clearance for the 4.5’ crosscut?
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 9:08 PM, Jason Rerras <dkfurry@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
14" Delta and 30" Tannewitz
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Re: Scoring Blade Durability
I don’t know what there made of they are there and still work , I may only use ounce or twice a year. Designing and building for 50 years
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Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 7:12 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Mac, are your stops plastic or did you remake them into something nice with metal?.? I've found the stock ones are easy to break and are on most used machines.? The dial with the stops works well but you want to be gentle.? Dave
My scoring has stops for height and width
Designing and building for 50 years
On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:10 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?A conical blade is not appropriate for your saws Imran. The saw needs automatic rise/fall with very precise and repeatable height stops, otherwise the scoring saw kerf width varies each time it’s raised.?
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:00 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like
I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions
on this option?
Imran
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest
you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me
think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
|
Re: Scoring Blade Durability
Mac, are your stops plastic or did you remake them into something nice with metal?.? I've found the stock ones are easy to break and are on most used machines.? The dial with the stops works well but you want to be gentle.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My scoring has stops for height and width
Designing and building for 50 years
On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:10 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?A conical blade is not appropriate for your saws Imran. The saw needs automatic rise/fall with very precise and repeatable height stops, otherwise the scoring saw kerf width varies each time it’s raised.?
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:00 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like
I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions
on this option?
Imran
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest
you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me
think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
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Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
Hey Dan,
Just curious, what is the MDF being used for? ?That’s a heavy sheet too! ?
Thx,
Wade
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:10 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
? Breaking down a 5x10 piece of 3/4 mdf. Just barely enough clearance in my awkward L-shaped shop?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:50 PM, Jason Rerras <dkfurry@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
14" Delta and 30" Tannewitz [url=https://flic.kr/p/2n9ozNx][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51947122815_1fd6b442fc.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2n9ozNx]thumbnail_IMG_4693[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/amalgamdesigns/]Jason Rerras[/url], on Flickr
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Re: Scoring Blade Durability
My scoring has stops for height and width Designing and building for 50 years
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Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:10 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? A conical blade is not appropriate for your saws Imran. The saw needs automatic rise/fall with very precise and repeatable height stops, otherwise the scoring saw kerf width varies each time it’s raised.? David Best - via mobile phone? On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:00 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions on this option?
Imran On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
|
Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
Breaking down a 5x10 piece of 3/4 mdf. Just barely enough clearance in my awkward L-shaped shop?
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Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:50 PM, Jason Rerras <dkfurry@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
14" Delta and 30" Tannewitz [url=https://flic.kr/p/2n9ozNx][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51947122815_1fd6b442fc.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2n9ozNx]thumbnail_IMG_4693[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/amalgamdesigns/]Jason Rerras[/url], on Flickr
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Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
Nice!? As much as I really respect those beautifully clean well
lit shops, I take comfort in seeing photos where the shop looks a
bit more like mine.? I also have a certain amount of bandsaw
envy.? I'm currently refurbishing a Yates American J-120.? Not
nearly as nice as that Tannewitz, but it a nice big table that is
perfectly balanced on the trunion.? I can adjust the angle with my
pinky, instead of fighting with the table like I have to do on my
20" Grizzly.
On 3/18/2022 3:22 PM, Jason Rerras
wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
14" Delta and 30" Tannewitz
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
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Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
14" Delta and 30" Tannewitz
|
Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
 David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:31 PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote:
?  6” 36” Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 18, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Ok, I can play that game - but let’s switch it up for the better
 On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:49 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
This is like a Presidential debate.? Dave
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 12:58 PM, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
?
Similar picture of our two mixers
Dave Davies
Size comparison of Laguna 14bx to Felder FB710. Back edge of spines are aligned in plane.

--
Mike B
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
The number 7 needs restoration,? but I figured this returned us to wood working.? ?
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 6” 36” Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 18, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
Ok, I can play that game - but let’s switch it up for the better
On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:49 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
This is like a Presidential debate.? Dave
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 12:58 PM, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
Similar picture of our two mixers
Dave Davies
Size comparison of Laguna 14bx to Felder FB710. Back edge of spines are aligned in plane.
--
Mike B
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
Replaced tie rods on my ‘03 Avalanche last Sunday.
Imran
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 5:31 PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote: ?  6” 36” Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 18, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Ok, I can play that game - but let’s switch it up for the better
 On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:49 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
This is like a Presidential debate.? Dave
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 12:58 PM, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
?
Similar picture of our two mixers
Dave Davies
Size comparison of Laguna 14bx to Felder FB710. Back edge of spines are aligned in plane.

--
Mike B
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: Scoring Blade Durability
Also with a Conical style scoring blade your material would have to be perfectly flat against the table surface or you risk inconsistencies.
Wade
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Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:10 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? A conical blade is not appropriate for your saws Imran. The saw needs automatic rise/fall with very precise and repeatable height stops, otherwise the scoring saw kerf width varies each time it’s raised.? David Best - via mobile phone? On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:00 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions on this option?
Imran On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
|
Re: #rfp - Random Friday Photo - March 18, 2022
#rfp
 6” 36” Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 3:58 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Ok, I can play that game - but let’s switch it up for the better
 On Mar 18, 2022, at 4:49 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
This is like a Presidential debate.? Dave
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Mar 18, 2022, at 12:58 PM, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
?
Similar picture of our two mixers
Dave Davies
Size comparison of Laguna 14bx to Felder FB710. Back edge of spines are aligned in plane.

--
Mike B
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: Scoring Blade Durability
Thanks guys, I suspected that and also did not know about auto adjust feature. Nice!
Imran
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On Mar 18, 2022, at 5:16 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? I think the auto score on my k940 was $700 worth every damn penny? On Mar 18, 2022, at 5:03 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Saws like Mac has use stops so the scorer can be dropped and returned to the same spot.? Really a nice feature but cost cut out of many machines.? Dave
Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like
I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions
on this option?
Imran
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest
you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me
think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
|
Re: Scoring Blade Durability
I think the auto score on my k940 was $700 worth every damn penny?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 5:03 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Saws like Mac has use stops so the scorer can be dropped and returned to the same spot.? Really a nice feature but cost cut out of many machines.? Dave
Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like
I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions
on this option?
Imran
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest
you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me
think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
|
Re: Scoring Blade Durability
A conical blade is not appropriate for your saws Imran. The saw needs automatic rise/fall with very precise and repeatable height stops, otherwise the scoring saw kerf width varies each time it’s raised.? David Best - via mobile phone?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:00 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thank you all for the feedback. I just pulled out the blade for cleaning. It is correct size @ 120mm. Just checked eshop, $160 ? for a replacement from Felder. I think I will have current one sharpened first to see if anything changes. Like I said, it cuts fine. Here is a pic of the piece I used little while ago to adjust it.
Following on Mac’s response I see Felder offers single piece scoring blade with conical profile. About half the price of 2 pc std affair.
I assume these are more suitable for dedicated production environment. A hobbyist will either have to remove the blade when it is not needed or adjust it every time once lowered. I guess an option would be to just use it all the times. Any opinions on this option?
Imran On Mar 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran, I have not had the issues you mention with my scoring blades. ?As far as replacements go, I have not had good experience getting the kind of scoring blade I want (two-piece with shims) from suppliers other than from Felder. ?I suggest you order from Felder.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
I have only had scoring blade for few yrs and only used plywood a few times. Blade came with the saw and had the dipped covering on it, as they sometimes do after sharpening.
Point is, I have cleaned it at least 3 times with very little use. It gets covered with crap (I assume adhesives) very quickly and sometimes will have burning smell but wood is not burned. Recently, on birch ply, it cut clean with no splintering, so makes me think it is not dull.
Another clue is that I can feel it pushing the material fwd at initial contact. I think I have it about 1/16” high. I use clamps most of the times and only felt this when I did some ripping recently.
If I wanted to try another blade should I get Felder offering or are there better ones.
Regards,
Imran
|