Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
You should have schematics inside of your electrical panel.? The brake circuit uses a single phase transformer. You do not want the manufactured leg on that transformer.?
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 5:05 PM, imranindiana via < imranindiana@...> wrote: Andy,
Can you share a schematic?
All 3 windings are energized during braking and I just replaced my brake board on K975 and Dual51 brake board also has all 3 phases.
Imran On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Andy Wojteczko < andy@...> wrote: ? Check the schematic? On all of my Felder equipment it only uses two phases? Andy Andy,
I believe all phases are needed by the brake board. At least mine from Felder do.
Imran On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Andy Wojteczko < andy@...> wrote: ? Make sure the manufactured leg is not in the brake circuit.? Andy Tom, ? If PP output is good in normal use, it would indicate to me that the caps are okay. During braking the power to the motor from PP is disconnected. The brake board then provides the braking signal to the motor and obviously the voltage source of this signal is still coming from the PP. I would think local (bypass) capacitance on the brake board and/or located in the shaper will be much more effective than the one located at PP. ? Not knowing the details, I would think that the chance of PP caps contributing to this issue is low. Are you able to share any details of this troubleshooting? ? Imran ? ? The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
-- Andy Wojteczko
-- Andy Wojteczko
--
Andy Wojteczko
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
Andy,
Can you share a schematic?
All 3 windings are energized during braking and I just replaced my brake board on K975 and Dual51 brake board also has all 3 phases.
Imran
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Andy Wojteczko <andy@...> wrote: ? Check the schematic? On all of my Felder equipment it only uses two phases? Andy Andy,
I believe all phases are needed by the brake board. At least mine from Felder do.
Imran On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Andy Wojteczko < andy@...> wrote: ? Make sure the manufactured leg is not in the brake circuit.? Andy Tom, ? If PP output is good in normal use, it would indicate to me that the caps are okay. During braking the power to the motor from PP is disconnected. The brake board then provides the braking signal to the motor and obviously the voltage source of this signal is still coming from the PP. I would think local (bypass) capacitance on the brake board and/or located in the shaper will be much more effective than the one located at PP. ? Not knowing the details, I would think that the chance of PP caps contributing to this issue is low. Are you able to share any details of this troubleshooting? ? Imran ? ? The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
-- Andy Wojteczko
-- Andy Wojteczko
|
Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
Check the schematic? On all of my Felder equipment it only uses two phases?
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:13 PM, imranindiana via < imranindiana@...> wrote: Andy,
I believe all phases are needed by the brake board. At least mine from Felder do.
Imran On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Andy Wojteczko < andy@...> wrote: ? Make sure the manufactured leg is not in the brake circuit.? Andy Tom, ? If PP output is good in normal use, it would indicate to me that the caps are okay. During braking the power to the motor from PP is disconnected. The brake board then provides the braking signal to the motor and obviously the voltage source of this signal is still coming from the PP. I would think local (bypass) capacitance on the brake board and/or located in the shaper will be much more effective than the one located at PP. ? Not knowing the details, I would think that the chance of PP caps contributing to this issue is low. Are you able to share any details of this troubleshooting? ? Imran ? ? The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
-- Andy Wojteczko
--
Andy Wojteczko
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
Andy,
I believe all phases are needed by the brake board. At least mine from Felder do.
Imran
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Andy Wojteczko <andy@...> wrote: ? Make sure the manufactured leg is not in the brake circuit.? Andy Tom, ? If PP output is good in normal use, it would indicate to me that the caps are okay. During braking the power to the motor from PP is disconnected. The brake board then provides the braking signal to the motor and obviously the voltage source of this signal is still coming from the PP. I would think local (bypass) capacitance on the brake board and/or located in the shaper will be much more effective than the one located at PP. ? Not knowing the details, I would think that the chance of PP caps contributing to this issue is low. Are you able to share any details of this troubleshooting? ? Imran ? ? The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
-- Andy Wojteczko
|
Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
Make sure the manufactured leg is not in the brake circuit.?
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:25 PM, imranindiana via < imranindiana@...> wrote: Tom, ? If PP output is good in normal use, it would indicate to me that the caps are okay. During braking the power to the motor from PP is disconnected. The brake board then provides the braking signal to the motor and obviously the voltage source of this signal is still coming from the PP. I would think local (bypass) capacitance on the brake board and/or located in the shaper will be much more effective than the one located at PP. ? Not knowing the details, I would think that the chance of PP caps contributing to this issue is low. Are you able to share any details of this troubleshooting? ? Imran ? ? The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
--
Andy Wojteczko
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Tom,
Awesome info. The show was many years old but it is good to know that this practice is still being executed.
As I mentioned earlier, a manufacturer has many options when it comes to a gluing process. I will look into it some more to see what materials and bonding agents might be available.
Imran
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:26 PM, tom@... wrote: ?I can't remember the last wood entry door I installed, but nearly all of the wood jambs I'm installing these days have a synthetic material finger jointed to the bottom ~6" of the wood jambs. So, to your question Imran, this seems to be pretty standard in the industry, at least for halfway decent doors.?
Clearly they've identified a bonding agent that their testing shows provides a durable bond, but I suspect exact formulations are proprietary.?
I install a lot of Bayer Built doors, they market their system as "FrameSaver":??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
The older blue PP are no longer supported so changing caps on them is a good idea.? I know they are very adamant about changing the caps but I am ashamed to admit I haven't done it yet.? Dave
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Coincidentally, my PP came courtesy of OP ?. Unless he changed the caps it is running on original set. I assume it is 10* years old.
An impedance analyzer or an LCR meter can be used to check the state of health of a capacitor.
Imran
On Mar 27, 2021, at 2:12 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?
?
?I think PP recommends changing them for liability. Personally, they will last a pretty long time if almost forever. I consulted with several electrical engineers at work that I trust and they said not to worry about it unless you see downstream
weirdness and even then no rush... we have several special capacitor checkers (can’t remember what they are called,) and I checked mine which I bought from Bill, i think about about 4-6 years old light usage and the caps were perfect.?
On Mar 27, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
?So Tom your pp is not working?
Designing and building for 50 years
On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
?My phase perfect is 4 years old and it was suggested to change the capacitors. (The manual actually recommends every 3 years) I called phase perfect and they sent me the new capacitors but I can't figure out how to get to them without disconnecting
a lot of other connections. Has anyone done this? I know I can call tech support but they don't open until Monday.?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Morris
Wichita, KS?
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I can't remember the last wood entry door I installed, but nearly all of the wood jambs I'm installing these days have a synthetic material finger jointed to the bottom ~6" of the wood jambs. So, to your question Imran, this seems to be pretty standard in the industry, at least for halfway decent doors.?
Clearly they've identified a bonding agent that their testing shows provides a durable bond, but I suspect exact formulations are proprietary.?
I install a lot of Bayer Built doors, they market their system as "FrameSaver":??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
Tom, ? If PP output is good in normal use, it would indicate to me that the caps are okay. During braking the power to the motor from PP is disconnected. The brake board then provides the braking signal to the motor and obviously the voltage source of this signal is still coming from the PP. I would think local (bypass) capacitance on the brake board and/or located in the shaper will be much more effective than the one located at PP. ? Not knowing the details, I would think that the chance of PP caps contributing to this issue is low. Are you able to share any details of this troubleshooting? ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Tom Morris Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 2:48 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect ? The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
The Phase perfect is still working. The suggestion to change the capacitors came about because I’ve hooked up a new Martin T27 shaper and I’m getting an error code when the automatic brake engages on the spindle stop. Just doing some trouble shooting and this was a possible cure.
Tom
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
Coincidentally, my PP came courtesy of OP ?. Unless he changed the caps it is running on original set. I assume it is 10* years old.
An impedance analyzer or an LCR meter can be used to check the state of health of a capacitor.
Imran
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 2:12 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? ? ? I think PP recommends changing them for liability. Personally, they will last a pretty long time if almost forever. I consulted with several electrical engineers at work that I trust and they said not to worry about it unless you see downstream weirdness and even then no rush... we have several special capacitor checkers (can’t remember what they are called,) and I checked mine which I bought from Bill, i think about about 4-6 years old light usage and the caps were perfect.? On Mar 27, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
? So Tom your pp is not working? Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
?My phase perfect is 4 years old and it was suggested to change the capacitors. (The manual actually recommends every 3 years) I called phase perfect and they sent me the new capacitors but I can't figure out how to get to them without disconnecting a lot of other connections. Has anyone done this? I know I can call tech support but they don't open until Monday.?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Morris
Wichita, KS?
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As I mentioned in my response to Mac, I planned on using west system for glue up and on the end grain.
This was a high volume manufacturing plant not TOH doing the door build. In a plant setting there are many more options than I can carry out. I am also using solid wood (yes I know it is not recommended) so veneering is not in my plan unless this method adds substantially more protection.
Imran
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 2:15 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote: ?I've used Smith's epoxy as primer on painted things subject to weather, and it certainly performs far better than paint alone.? Note that I'm not specifically claiming it's better than any other brand (though Smith would claim that), I'm just claiming that epoxy primed and painted wood performs better than conventional primer and paint.?
http://www.smithandcompany.org/
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
My PP is ~15 years old and on original caps.
I think the only benefit of replacing prophylactically is downtime avoidance (ie, if/when they fail, PP will be down until you replace them)
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I've used Smith's epoxy as primer on painted things subject to weather, and it certainly performs far better than paint alone.? Note that I'm not specifically claiming it's better than any other brand (though Smith would claim that), I'm just claiming that epoxy primed and painted wood performs better than conventional primer and paint.?
http://www.smithandcompany.org/
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
? ? I think PP recommends changing them for liability. Personally, they will last a pretty long time if almost forever. I consulted with several electrical engineers at work that I trust and they said not to worry about it unless you see downstream weirdness and even then no rush... we have several special capacitor checkers (can’t remember what they are called,) and I checked mine which I bought from Bill, i think about about 4-6 years old light usage and the caps were perfect.?
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
? So Tom your pp is not working? Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
?My phase perfect is 4 years old and it was suggested to change the capacitors. (The manual actually recommends every 3 years) I called phase perfect and they sent me the new capacitors but I can't figure out how to get to them without disconnecting a lot of other connections. Has anyone done this? I know I can call tech support but they don't open until Monday.?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Morris
Wichita, KS?
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Bonding any of the? olifin family of? polymers has historically been a
real crap shoot.
I've used E-Beam Rasterizing and hydrogen flame treatments to get the
oils off the first molecular layer of the? surface.?? There are paints?
today that? can get past the oily surface film? and adhere - sort of.
PSA adhesives work pretty well especially of they are heat bonded.? But?
for this application (a door)? I think I'd toss that whole episode of
This Old house in the rubbish.
Why not use an epoxy?? Not? one of those so called penetrating epoxies,
but a good one? like West or 3-m.? You can get a high build with
multiple coats and it'll stick like - - well epoxy.
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On 3/27/21 1:38 PM, imranindiana via groups.io wrote: This may not be news to some of you but this is the first time I have heard of this. I was watching an old This Old House episode during lunch and caught this detail of four building.
To protect the end grain of stiles this manufacturer uses a polyethylene block as part of the stile at bottom. Here are some pics from TV screen.
Isn?�?t polyethylene difficult to glue. I will look up to confirm if west system epoxy will work with polyethylene as that is what I intend to use.
Not knowing much about it, seems like a good idea. I would like to do this to the top and bottom of an exterior door I plan to build.
Any thoughts?
Imran
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I guess I can kinda see it, looks like a gimmick to me Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:57 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Mac,
Not sure what your comment means. I was planning to soak epoxy into the end grain, not sure if this is considered sizing.
The method, I shared, is finger jointing a 1.5” polyethylene block (see pic in my msg) to the end of the stave core stile before the veneers are applied.
Imran? On Mar 27, 2021, at 1:45 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ? I assume that treat after door is complete? Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:38 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? This may not be news to some of you but this is the first time I have heard of this. I was watching an old This Old House episode during lunch and caught this detail of four building.To protect the end grain of stiles this manufacturer uses a polyethylene block as part of the stile at bottom. Here are some pics from TV screen.Isn’t polyethylene difficult to glue. I will look up to confirm if west system epoxy will work with polyethylene as that is what I intend to use.Not knowing much about it, seems like a good idea. I would like to do this to the top and bottom of an exterior door I plan to build.Any thoughts?Imran<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg>
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Mac,
Not sure what your comment means. I was planning to soak epoxy into the end grain, not sure if this is considered sizing.
The method, I shared, is finger jointing a 1.5” polyethylene block (see pic in my msg) to the end of the stave core stile before the veneers are applied.
Imran?
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 1:45 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ? I assume that treat after door is complete? Designing and building for 50 years On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:38 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? This may not be news to some of you but this is the first time I have heard of this. I was watching an old This Old House episode during lunch and caught this detail of four building.To protect the end grain of stiles this manufacturer uses a polyethylene block as part of the stile at bottom. Here are some pics from TV screen.Isn’t polyethylene difficult to glue. I will look up to confirm if west system epoxy will work with polyethylene as that is what I intend to use.Not knowing much about it, seems like a good idea. I would like to do this to the top and bottom of an exterior door I plan to build.Any thoughts?Imran<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg>
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Re: Changing capacitors on a Phase Perfect
So Tom your pp is not working? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:37 PM, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
?My phase perfect is 4 years old and it was suggested to change the capacitors. (The manual actually recommends every 3 years) I called phase perfect and they sent me the new capacitors but I can't figure out how to get to them without disconnecting a lot of other connections. Has anyone done this? I know I can call tech support but they don't open until Monday.?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Morris
Wichita, KS?
|
I assume that treat after door is complete? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 27, 2021, at 12:38 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? This may not be news to some of you but this is the first time I have heard of this. I was watching an old This Old House episode during lunch and caught this detail of four building.To protect the end grain of stiles this manufacturer uses a polyethylene block as part of the stile at bottom. Here are some pics from TV screen.Isn’t polyethylene difficult to glue. I will look up to confirm if west system epoxy will work with polyethylene as that is what I intend to use.Not knowing much about it, seems like a good idea. I would like to do this to the top and bottom of an exterior door I plan to build.Any thoughts?Imran<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg>
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imran
Tom Gensmer