I ordered a spindle moulder from SCM last July. and it finally arrived yesterday.
Just happy it got here given the hard times Italy were exposed to the pandemic.?
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Awesome.? Congratulations.? Memories too.? I remember building descending platforms (vs ramps) to use rented pallet jack to get my kf700 from pallet to garage floor.
On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 8:28 AM Andrew Brant < andrew@...> wrote: Hi! I ordered an AD741 last september from the felder office in Sacramento, and it¡¯s finally home! It hasn¡¯t been an easy year to get anything in a pallet from europe but it made it.?
I¡¯ve been woodworking for about ten years, mostly on the nights and weekends while i had a corporate day job in film production in silicon valley, and I would pay my SF rent by making stuff with hand tools in my backyard woodshed. Quit the job and followed my passion and went to the Krenov School in fort bragg. So now i¡¯m putting together my own shop and doing what i was doing full time.?
wanted to write about the experience so far, and in case i need any help from here! Smooth sailing.
Delivery was great, got it in my covered trailer easily on a forklift straight in. I bought two thousand pound straps, 8 - 2x4 x 24¡±, 8- ?2x4 x 8ft, and had six or so 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 4ft x4ft squares before delivery.?
i screwed 8 of the short 2x4s around the base kf
the pallet, around each corner, so it wasn¡¯t going anywhere on the drive back over the mountains to the coast. Straps weren¡¯t necessary at all but maybe they helped?
Got it home and called a local mover who got it into the lift gate and down the ground with pallet jacks, and then it took two full size ones to move it into the garage.?
Then, by myself I basically extended the pallet as much as I made a ramp, move it all the way over, kicked the pallet out, and seeing it was more than stable, i unscrewed 2x4¡¯s and knocked them out slowly with a sledgehammer. The machine didn¡¯t move at all while i did this, and i had stop blocks down so it wouldn¡¯t fall more than half an or so at a time. I¡¯d knock a few out, level it, move a piece of plywood from one end to the other and just slowly moved it back and forth about four times, like walking a switchback down a steep mountain trail. Very slow and easy, until it was down on the floor.?
The balance on a narrow, short pallet jack from globe isn¡¯t great but it works. I found it more tippy on the ground when i want to turn it at too sharp an angle. Straight back and forth is fine.?
I¡¯m going to get it wired up and turned on today, and the fence installed. Everything is ready for it, just have to put the plug end on. Super excited to have this machine finally!
                 
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Re: Straightlining lumber
Glen,
The video Jonathan shared shows how to make one. I would add few observations from my use of one.
First I made mine with thin ply on each side of 1/2¡± spacers. Being 12¡¯ long I added 4¡¯ length on opposing ends so the joint is offset. I believe it is 3/4¡± thick but not sure if it would be substantially stiffer if I used 1¡± thick wood between plys. It is about 14¡± wide. I do have two ~2¡± wide continuous runs of wood (lengthwise) between plys that line up with 2 slots in the slider.
People with short slider like 76¡± on my KF700 may benefit from having the runner that is captured in slider slot, that is how I did mine. It prevents the sled from lifting but down side is that you have to thread the sled in the slot as opposed to just dropping it down.
Working alone with long pieces it helps to have a stop block screwed on the leading end with a nail in it. I push end grain of the board into nail to fix that end and then move to the trailing end to adjust it without having the leading end move on me.
Now that I have 10¡¯ slider, there is not a great chance of lifting besides 16¡¯ sled is too long to thread.?I will likely experiment with a fixed runner secured in the slider and make sled out of solid material as apposed to box construction of my current sled. One advantage is that it is easier to support the sled with flat bottom (runner not attached to the bottom of the sled). You will need to support the sled if it goes 3¡¯ (just a guess but there about) or more off of the slider. For this reason I lock my slider in middle so support stands stay in one place as sled is moved.
The advantage of solid board vs my box construction is that one can use the dovetail hold downs as shown in video. My original hold downs were just scraps of wood holding down the long edge not being cut. I later added Kreg hold downs with a captured T bolt that is recessed into the bottom surface of sled. With 2 sets of T bolt holes I can handle narrow and wide boards.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:32 AM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote: ?In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
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Thank you all. Just getting the rest of the shop cleaned up and set, and tomorrow i should be turning it on. It was a beast to move and yeah, a very long ramp! But i was determined to go slow and be careful.
Hope some of the photos help if anyone else is thinking of buying something like this in a small place. I know i¡¯m grateful for everyone¡¯s posts before me.
Andrew
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Re: #Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
David,
Since the main drive belt did not show signs of deterioration I left it alone. I did noticed that the belt had a tiny but of flutter. Not sure about hearing a pure tone though. I figured it has not been damaged over 10 yrs (albeit light use) so better leave it alone.
I do not know much about belts. I assume one side is in tension (motor pulling) and the other in compression. I can see the compression side flutter if the belt is on the loose side.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:59 AM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran, good summary. ?How did you tension the main drive belt? ?My Dual 51 motor shaft snapped off because the early machines from the factory had belt tensions set way too high. ?After replacing the motor,? and several back-and-forth exchanges with Felder about how to know the belt was properly tensioned, the consensus was that when plucked, the belt should resonate at 160 Hz. I scratched my head how I was going to know if the belt was vibrating at 160 Hz. ? Then I decided to translate that to a key on my piano, recorded that sound on my iPhone, then did the belt tensioning to match what I was hearing on the iPhone in the shop. ?Today there is an app for the iPhone that will display the frequency of any sound it¡¯s hearing. ? It is especially good at suggesting when my cocktail ice clinking together is at the right temperature.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
?Thought I document some details of my service effort on Dual51. In case of Dual51 the electrical cabinet in the rear of the machine needs to be removed to get access to cutterhead drive belt and feed rollers. Inside the electrical cabinet, there is a ground wire that is screwed into the back wall (and therefore the chassis behind it) of the cabinet. This ground wire screw has to be removed to remove the electrical cabinet. This is not mentioned in my manual and was a source of great frustration first time around. Once the back is exposed you will see something like this (this is actually the after pic):
<image0.jpeg>
There is a removable link in the chain but be aware that putting the chain back by your self is bit of a pain. I was able to do it but it will go much quicker with a helping hand.
Once chain is removed it can be cleaned thoroughly and removing it allows good access to all sprockets.
<image2.jpeg>
<image4.jpeg>
My manual says use machine grease for chain and related parts but I just used shaper spindle grease which actually appears to be a bit viscous for the chain, at least at 50F shop temp. I wanted to ensure that the chain rollers got greased so I used the heat gun from a distance to warm things up a bit.
<image5.jpeg>
I wiped access grease off. The drive belt looked fine so I closed the rear up.
Next, I removed the covers on both sides under the planer bed. There is a grease zerk for each bed elevation post. I used Felder grease gun to pump grease into these. I continued pumping expecting the grease to come out up top but nothing did then realized that it is actually coming out from underneath. It is not easy to see what is happening below as there is a grill. As I write this, I realize that I could have removed this grill but it did not occur to me to do so at the moment. Once I realized that grease comes out from bottom. I lowered the planer bed causing some of the elevation post to extend below the chassis floor and pumped some more. This way the extra grease actually goes on the post and when the table is raised/lowered a few times it lubricates the post.
<image0.jpeg>?
There is a chain that drives the sprockets on all posts. Red arrow points to this chain. It looked good so I did not feel the need to clean and lube.?I wiped all excess grease, especially below the chassis floor as dust can get to the extended posts.
Hope this is helpful.
Imran
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Re: Straightlining lumber
SLR saw for sure. Doesn't your buddy have one? Most people who have a moulder do. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Straightlining lumber
ROTFLOL
I think this YouTube video does an excellent job:?https://youtu.be/AC9mBotnoBg
Yikes!?
A board for the jig wider than your work so you can setup some stop blocks or a fence??
You're welcome. Good luck!?
Kind regards,?
Jonathan?
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Re: Kids and the Workshop - Funny Story
Thanks again Brian for all your help. ?Amazing customer service!
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Re: #Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
Imran, good summary. ?How did you tension the main drive belt? ?My Dual 51 motor shaft snapped off because the early machines from the factory had belt tensions set way too high. ?After replacing the motor,? and several back-and-forth exchanges with Felder about how to know the belt was properly tensioned, the consensus was that when plucked, the belt should resonate at 160 Hz. I scratched my head how I was going to know if the belt was vibrating at 160 Hz. ? Then I decided to translate that to a key on my piano, recorded that sound on my iPhone, then did the belt tensioning to match what I was hearing on the iPhone in the shop. ?Today there is an app for the iPhone that will display the frequency of any sound it¡¯s hearing. ? It is especially good at suggesting when my cocktail ice clinking together is at the right temperature.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?Thought I document some details of my service effort on Dual51. In case of Dual51 the electrical cabinet in the rear of the machine needs to be removed to get access to cutterhead drive belt and feed rollers. Inside the electrical cabinet, there is a ground wire that is screwed into the back wall (and therefore the chassis behind it) of the cabinet. This ground wire screw has to be removed to remove the electrical cabinet. This is not mentioned in my manual and was a source of great frustration first time around. Once the back is exposed you will see something like this (this is actually the after pic):
<image0.jpeg>
There is a removable link in the chain but be aware that putting the chain back by your self is bit of a pain. I was able to do it but it will go much quicker with a helping hand.
Once chain is removed it can be cleaned thoroughly and removing it allows good access to all sprockets.
<image2.jpeg>
<image4.jpeg>
My manual says use machine grease for chain and related parts but I just used shaper spindle grease which actually appears to be a bit viscous for the chain, at least at 50F shop temp. I wanted to ensure that the chain rollers got greased so I used the heat gun from a distance to warm things up a bit.
<image5.jpeg>
I wiped access grease off. The drive belt looked fine so I closed the rear up.
Next, I removed the covers on both sides under the planer bed. There is a grease zerk for each bed elevation post. I used Felder grease gun to pump grease into these. I continued pumping expecting the grease to come out up top but nothing did then realized that it is actually coming out from underneath. It is not easy to see what is happening below as there is a grill. As I write this, I realize that I could have removed this grill but it did not occur to me to do so at the moment. Once I realized that grease comes out from bottom. I lowered the planer bed causing some of the elevation post to extend below the chassis floor and pumped some more. This way the extra grease actually goes on the post and when the table is raised/lowered a few times it lubricates the post.
<image0.jpeg>?
There is a chain that drives the sprockets on all posts. Red arrow points to this chain. It looked good so I did not feel the need to clean and lube.?I wiped all excess grease, especially below the chassis floor as dust can get to the extended posts.
Hope this is helpful.
Imran
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Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
Good summary Lucky. ?I will only add that if you take a deep enough cut to eliminate cup and twist coming onto the outfeed table, the high feeder pressure doesn¡¯t matter - there is nothing to flatten since it¡¯s already flat coming off the cutter. ?This is why I surface rough material at 3-4mm depth of cut, provided the material is already flat to within 3mm when resting on a flat surface like a sliding table. ?And my comments were specifically about surfacing rough timber that is wide (10-20 inches) and long (like 5 feet or more). ?If I¡¯m trying to take a banana-shaped table leg and make that flat, I¡¯m not going to be using a feeder, and will probably take several passes whittling down the ends to remove the cup. ?More likely however, I will clamp it to the sliding table and use the saw to skim the edge perfectly flat and straight using a straight-line rip technique.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 22, 2021, at 9:00 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Joe:
I¡¯m pretty sure you meant David B., but since he was replying agreement to my post I thought I¡¯d take a risk and reply myself. In my reply, I absolutely don¡¯t mean to patronise ¡ª you probably already know all this stuff. Forgive me if I go over known ground¡
If a board is already flat, then ¡°light forces with shallow passes¡± will probably get the job done. I say ¡°probably¡± because the hard timber we get in Australia won¡¯t pass nicely over the cutterhead without some serious drive help from the feeder, especially for wider pieces (say 300mm and wider). But let¡¯s say the timber is of reasonable species, reasonable dimensions, and reasonably flat. A single pass of 1mm or 2mm will flatten the board, all-at-once, so it doesn¡¯t matter whether the feeder is adjusted for a light force or a strong one. The key is that the job was done ¡°all-at-once¡±.
If a board is significantly not-flat ¡ª bowed, cupped, twisted ¡ª then any full length pass must get the majority of the ¡°not-flatness¡± out, otherwise, a couple of things will likely happen:
1. If the power feeder is adjusted so there is reasonable force pinning the board to the jointer surface, it is very likely the feeder pressure will partially flatten the board while it is being machined, only for the board to spring back after it is ejected from the feeder.
2. This is especially the case for a bowed board (which looks ¡°curved¡± when viewed on-edge). In this instance, after the machine passes over the cutterhead, and under the feeder, it will ¡°spring¡± back into its natural curved state. It doesn¡¯t take much pressure to distort a bowed board, especially one of some length ¡ª say 2m or longer. All that has been achieved in this instance is that the board¡¯s surface has been smoothed; but the board itself is still bowed.
3. This problem of spring back occurs less for cupped material (unless it is really thin) because even a strongly set power feeder will not unduly flatten a cupped board across its width during machining. So there is no, or less, spring back.
4. For a twisted board, it doesn¡¯t really matter whether the feeder is adjusted lightly or strongly. Light passes will not correct the twist as the board is likely to rock one way to the other as it passes under the feeder wheels (especially for short boards), or else corkscrew or propeller through as long boards are pinned under the feeder but twist through the cut as it extends off the end of the outfeed table. In other words, a twisted board is unstable unless it is manually flattened (e.g. David B¡¯s suggestion with the scrub plane), machine flattened (by hand beside the feeder or with the feeder moved out of the way), or the depth of cut is sufficient enough to flatten the board all-at-once (at least to 75% flat).
In summary, and in theory, a lightly adjusted feeder and light passes will work just fine for flat or nearly flat timber. And in theory, a lightly adjusted feeder will flatten badly warped boards, as long as the board is not thin, does not rock while being fed, and does not stick/stall because more drive pressure is required. Joe, this may be what you¡¯re thinking?
But in practice, boards need a reasonable amount of drive pressure from the feeder to work its way through the cutterhead. This is especially the case for cantankerous Australian timbers, and timbers of large dimensions. And this pressure will usually distort a warped board as it passes under the feeder wheels. If the depth of cut is not sufficient to obtain that 75% all-at-once flatness, or better, then the machinist will be chasing his/her/them tail, and never achieve flatness.
I hope this helps.
Warm regards, Lucky
David, why would ¡°light forces with shallow passes¡± not get the job done. Would this not be like using a hand plan?? Why does pressing a board flat with the feeder not press some of the bow out before it passes the cutter? ? ? I¡¯m with Lucky on this. ?For rough material, I first lay it on the sliding table of the saw, and check the amount of twist and bow. ?If the twist is under 3mm and the board lays flat, I set the jointer to 3+mm depth of cut, set the feeder over the outfeed table and adjust the height for 4mm of expected upward wheel displacement, and let it rip. ?Say the rough material is 25mm, I set the feeder tires 18-19mm above the outfeed table, infeed table to 3mm DOC. ?One pass, plenty of downward force on the outfeed table, and the board is ready for the thicknesser. ?Light forces with multiple shallow passes isn¡¯t going to get the surface flat. ?If the material has more than 3mm twist, I cut it into shorter pieces or work off the high corners with a scrub plane first. ?The outfeed table has to be slick - I use Waxlit on top of Renaissance wax on the tables. ? This is one reason I optioned my Dual 51 with a 13HP motor, and I¡¯ve done lots of 16¡± wide cherry in this manner. ? For thicker rough material (12/4 Oak for instance), I pay equal attention to bow and twist, and if the bow is substantial, with convex side down, bring down thickness at both ends, stopping part way through, then doing end-for-end swap, until the bow is less than 2mm or so, then revert to the process mentioned above. ?
On Mar 21, 2021, at 2:42 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: ? Hi Imran:
There is a common misperception that ¡°minimum down force¡± is desirable for a jointer.?
I think this is wrong thinking arising from users who take many light passes to flatten a board. In such a scenario, where a light pass is taken that does not flatten a board all-at-once, the board being machined would not rest flat against the outfeed table, and therefore be forced flat under the feeder, only to spring back afterwards. This leads to frustrating results.?
Best practice for jointer machinists, using a feeder, is to set the depth of cut to flatten the board all-at-once, to approx 75% of the board¡¯s surface. This achieves a flat board very quickly, and good down pressure can be used with the feeder. This is safer (no slip) and the results are superior (i.e. flat, consistent results).
For scenarios where the jointer¡¯s capacity is not up to the job (e.g. minimal horsepower, or the cup/bow/twist is beyond the jointer¡¯s maximum depth of cut), then the offending board should be machined partially by hand, by moving the feeder aside (or working beside the feeder if there¡¯s space) and machining part way along the ends (twist or bow), or pushing the board all the way through (cup ¡ª concave side down). The former is done easily by pushing a board through say 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then lifting the board off the cutterhead, swapping end for end, and machining 1/4 to 1/3 of the other end, to eliminate most of the twist or bow. The latter is easy enough to do, even for large boards, because most of the board is not engaged in the cut (only the outer edges of the cupped board), and so can be pushed through manually.
This process prepares the worst boards to a ¡°flatness¡± that allows the feeder to be used for that single, final feeder pass, which gets the board flat. By the way, short boards, say 600mm or shorter, which cannot be flattened all-at-once, should be discarded from the shop and project, or they should be partially flattened by hand (scrub plane). Short boards should not be partially machined by hand in the above manner, as the operator is working too close to the cutter head. User discretion required here.?
Minimum down force is irrelevant.?
Warm regards,
David Lucky
On 21 Mar 2021, at 11:21 pm, imranindiana via ??< imranindiana@...> wrote: ?Apparently, a modification is offered by Western Roller where a belt can be installed on PF - pic from their website Would this work better on PF for jointer where one wants minimum down force? Imran On Mar 21, 2021, at 9:01 AM, imranindiana via ??< imranindiana@...> wrote: ?There are lots of msgs here and it appears durometer 60 is the most common recommendation. However, I saw durometer 50 is also available. I need to replace wheels on shaper and jointer PF. Both have factory wheels. What is the durometer recommendation? Axiom Industries and Western Roller Corp are the 2 places recommended. If we have a sort on consensus, I can create a hashtag msg with details so it is easy to find. Imran <image0.jpeg>
?
|
In my great ability to take on jobs that are over my head, I got a new one today.
I am going to run 2400 of T&G siding. coming to the conclusion that try to do this is going to be down right impossible with my tools my fellow woodworking buddy will run it for me if I pay him for the knives a hundred bucks for wear and tear on the machine and a case of beer. So i need to straight line material before i take it over and I recall that you all make a sled to run longer material than the slider. If I am correct on this , could some of you share a picture of what you built so I can wrap my head around it. My slider is 10 ft and the boards are 16 ft. There is onl 150 of them.
Then what would be the best way to slice the oppisite side?
Thank You all as always.
Glen
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
Hi Joe:
I¡¯m pretty sure you meant David B., but since he was replying agreement to my post I thought I¡¯d take a risk and reply myself. In my reply, I absolutely don¡¯t mean to patronise ¡ª you probably already know all this stuff. Forgive me if I go over known ground¡
If a board is already flat, then ¡°light forces with shallow passes¡± will probably get the job done. I say ¡°probably¡± because the hard timber we get in Australia won¡¯t pass nicely over the cutterhead without some serious drive help from the feeder, especially for wider pieces (say 300mm and wider). But let¡¯s say the timber is of reasonable species, reasonable dimensions, and reasonably flat. A single pass of 1mm or 2mm will flatten the board, all-at-once, so it doesn¡¯t matter whether the feeder is adjusted for a light force or a strong one. The key is that the job was done ¡°all-at-once¡±.
If a board is significantly not-flat ¡ª bowed, cupped, twisted ¡ª then any full length pass must get the majority of the ¡°not-flatness¡± out, otherwise, a couple of things will likely happen:
1. If the power feeder is adjusted so there is reasonable force pinning the board to the jointer surface, it is very likely the feeder pressure will partially flatten the board while it is being machined, only for the board to spring back after it is ejected from the feeder.
2. This is especially the case for a bowed board (which looks ¡°curved¡± when viewed on-edge). In this instance, after the machine passes over the cutterhead, and under the feeder, it will ¡°spring¡± back into its natural curved state. It doesn¡¯t take much pressure to distort a bowed board, especially one of some length ¡ª say 2m or longer. All that has been achieved in this instance is that the board¡¯s surface has been smoothed; but the board itself is still bowed.
3. This problem of spring back occurs less for cupped material (unless it is really thin) because even a strongly set power feeder will not unduly flatten a cupped board across its width during machining. So there is no, or less, spring back.
4. For a twisted board, it doesn¡¯t really matter whether the feeder is adjusted lightly or strongly. Light passes will not correct the twist as the board is likely to rock one way to the other as it passes under the feeder wheels (especially for short boards), or else corkscrew or propeller through as long boards are pinned under the feeder but twist through the cut as it extends off the end of the outfeed table. In other words, a twisted board is unstable unless it is manually flattened (e.g. David B¡¯s suggestion with the scrub plane), machine flattened (by hand beside the feeder or with the feeder moved out of the way), or the depth of cut is sufficient enough to flatten the board all-at-once (at least to 75% flat).
In summary, and in theory, a lightly adjusted feeder and light passes will work just fine for flat or nearly flat timber. And in theory, a lightly adjusted feeder will flatten badly warped boards, as long as the board is not thin, does not rock while being fed, and does not stick/stall because more drive pressure is required. Joe, this may be what you¡¯re thinking?
But in practice, boards need a reasonable amount of drive pressure from the feeder to work its way through the cutterhead. This is especially the case for cantankerous Australian timbers, and timbers of large dimensions. And this pressure will usually distort a warped board as it passes under the feeder wheels. If the depth of cut is not sufficient to obtain that 75% all-at-once flatness, or better, then the machinist will be chasing his/her/them tail, and never achieve flatness.
I hope this helps.
Warm regards, Lucky
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
David, why would ¡°light forces with shallow passes¡± not get the job done. Would this not be like using a hand plan?? Why does pressing a board flat with the feeder not press some of the bow out before it passes the cutter? ? ? I¡¯m with Lucky on this. ?For rough material, I first lay it on the sliding table of the saw, and check the amount of twist and bow. ?If the twist is under 3mm and the board lays flat, I set the jointer to 3+mm depth of cut, set the feeder over the outfeed table and adjust the height for 4mm of expected upward wheel displacement, and let it rip. ?Say the rough material is 25mm, I set the feeder tires 18-19mm above the outfeed table, infeed table to 3mm DOC. ?One pass, plenty of downward force on the outfeed table, and the board is ready for the thicknesser. ?Light forces with multiple shallow passes isn¡¯t going to get the surface flat. ?If the material has more than 3mm twist, I cut it into shorter pieces or work off the high corners with a scrub plane first. ?The outfeed table has to be slick - I use Waxlit on top of Renaissance wax on the tables. ? This is one reason I optioned my Dual 51 with a 13HP motor, and I¡¯ve done lots of 16¡± wide cherry in this manner. ? For thicker rough material (12/4 Oak for instance), I pay equal attention to bow and twist, and if the bow is substantial, with convex side down, bring down thickness at both ends, stopping part way through, then doing end-for-end swap, until the bow is less than 2mm or so, then revert to the process mentioned above. ?
On Mar 21, 2021, at 2:42 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: ? Hi Imran:
There is a common misperception that ¡°minimum down force¡± is desirable for a jointer.?
I think this is wrong thinking arising from users who take many light passes to flatten a board. In such a scenario, where a light pass is taken that does not flatten a board all-at-once, the board being machined would not rest flat against the outfeed table, and therefore be forced flat under the feeder, only to spring back afterwards. This leads to frustrating results.?
Best practice for jointer machinists, using a feeder, is to set the depth of cut to flatten the board all-at-once, to approx 75% of the board¡¯s surface. This achieves a flat board very quickly, and good down pressure can be used with the feeder. This is safer (no slip) and the results are superior (i.e. flat, consistent results).
For scenarios where the jointer¡¯s capacity is not up to the job (e.g. minimal horsepower, or the cup/bow/twist is beyond the jointer¡¯s maximum depth of cut), then the offending board should be machined partially by hand, by moving the feeder aside (or working beside the feeder if there¡¯s space) and machining part way along the ends (twist or bow), or pushing the board all the way through (cup ¡ª concave side down). The former is done easily by pushing a board through say 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then lifting the board off the cutterhead, swapping end for end, and machining 1/4 to 1/3 of the other end, to eliminate most of the twist or bow. The latter is easy enough to do, even for large boards, because most of the board is not engaged in the cut (only the outer edges of the cupped board), and so can be pushed through manually.
This process prepares the worst boards to a ¡°flatness¡± that allows the feeder to be used for that single, final feeder pass, which gets the board flat. By the way, short boards, say 600mm or shorter, which cannot be flattened all-at-once, should be discarded from the shop and project, or they should be partially flattened by hand (scrub plane). Short boards should not be partially machined by hand in the above manner, as the operator is working too close to the cutter head. User discretion required here.?
Minimum down force is irrelevant.?
Warm regards,
David Lucky
On 21 Mar 2021, at 11:21 pm, imranindiana via ??< imranindiana@...> wrote: ?Apparently, a modification is offered by Western Roller where a belt can be installed on PF - pic from their website Would this work better on PF for jointer where one wants minimum down force? Imran On Mar 21, 2021, at 9:01 AM, imranindiana via ??< imranindiana@...> wrote: ?There are lots of msgs here and it appears durometer 60 is the most common recommendation. However, I saw durometer 50 is also available. I need to replace wheels on shaper and jointer PF. Both have factory wheels. What is the durometer recommendation? Axiom Industries and Western Roller Corp are the 2 places recommended. If we have a sort on consensus, I can create a hashtag msg with details so it is easy to find. Imran <image0.jpeg>
?
|
#Servicing 2011 Dual51 and Similar Jointer/Planer
#servicing
Hope this is helpful.
Imran
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Re: Northfield 32" Bandsaw
Joe , I run 1.5¡± woodmizer blades on my 36¡± oliver with Centauro power feed. They make to spec. Bi mental I think and about 50.00 ea or there abouts . Woodmiser sharpens for maybe 15 or 20 bucks. Blades are good for 3 to 5 sharpening. I am going to be resawing 20¡¯ clear quarter sawn Douglas Fir 2x6 in a week or two for paneling.
mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 22, 2021, at 6:59 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? FWIW, I have sawed 1/16¡± thick veneer on my LT16SEC with Laguna 1¡± resaw king. It was 2x12 Cypress and I just did it to check the resaw king blade. I was blown away with uniformity, maybe I am easily amused. I am sure my bandsaw is no where close to suggested tension.
Imran
On Mar 22, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote:
?
Blade breakage may be a point.? The only time I broke a big blade was when it was rubbing a lot on the ceramic rear rub disk with Laguna guides.
?
?
Joe, I can't speak to the larger blade.? The tension arguments go on forever.? My experience is not that different than yours although I see an improvement- slight but still an improvement - with
25K vs lower.? Mainly when using the full height of the resaw and also to keep the blade from moving into the rear bearing.? I try to keep the blade from heating up from rubbing the bearing.? I don't have any scientific evidence, I just know I haven't broken
any blades at 25K and I broke Trimaster blades at lower tension.? Dave
I spoke with people at both Tannewitz and Northfield on these saws.? Interestingly both unprompted offered that the internet groups obsession with
25,000 psi was flat out wrong. ?The Northfield guy said that¡¯s a spec for horizontal steel cutting bandsaws and irrelevant for wood saws. ?I being an engineer have a Starrett Bandsaw tension gauge so I¡¯ve been tensioning with that for years.? With my Felder
FB540 I can¡¯t get the 1¡± carbide blade over about 20,000 psi.? that said, it cuts perfectly and it always has.? I played with it at 15,000 and 20,000 and I notice no difference.? Having been at this for 40 years I never knew about tension gauges and always
tensioned until the blade was ¡°just taut enough¡±.? That always worked unless the blade was dull or you feed the stock too fast.?
?
Is there a big benefit of a 1 ?¡± blade over a 1¡± blade over a ?¡± blade for sawing veneers?
?
?
What you are describing matches what I have been told by others who have compared NF with Tanny or Oliver.? The tension spring and mechanism might have more to do with which to use for resawing
than the castings but only using each will tell the true story.? I would avoid the 1.25" Carbide blade on either.? The .035" band on the 3/4 or 1" will be easier to tension than the .042 on the 1 1/4.? My Olivers tension the 1" but I have no experience with
the thicker band.? Dave
Also, the owner I bought from purchased used in 2006. He restored it including having Northfield true and balance the wheels and put on new tires.? New pads on the carter guides, etc.? Owner never put it in service and it sat on a pallet
unused since 2006.? Fresh paint too.? Should just needs power.
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Re: Northfield 32" Bandsaw
FWIW, I have sawed 1/16¡± thick veneer on my LT16SEC with Laguna 1¡± resaw king. It was 2x12 Cypress and I just did it to check the resaw king blade. I was blown away with uniformity, maybe I am easily amused. I am sure my bandsaw is no where close to suggested tension.
Imran
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On Mar 22, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote: ?
Blade breakage may be a point.? The only time I broke a big blade was when it was rubbing a lot on the ceramic rear rub disk with Laguna guides.
?
?
Joe, I can't speak to the larger blade.? The tension arguments go on forever.? My experience is not that different than yours although I see an improvement- slight but still an improvement - with
25K vs lower.? Mainly when using the full height of the resaw and also to keep the blade from moving into the rear bearing.? I try to keep the blade from heating up from rubbing the bearing.? I don't have any scientific evidence, I just know I haven't broken
any blades at 25K and I broke Trimaster blades at lower tension.? Dave
I spoke with people at both Tannewitz and Northfield on these saws.? Interestingly both unprompted offered that the internet groups obsession with
25,000 psi was flat out wrong. ?The Northfield guy said that¡¯s a spec for horizontal steel cutting bandsaws and irrelevant for wood saws. ?I being an engineer have a Starrett Bandsaw tension gauge so I¡¯ve been tensioning with that for years.? With my Felder
FB540 I can¡¯t get the 1¡± carbide blade over about 20,000 psi.? that said, it cuts perfectly and it always has.? I played with it at 15,000 and 20,000 and I notice no difference.? Having been at this for 40 years I never knew about tension gauges and always
tensioned until the blade was ¡°just taut enough¡±.? That always worked unless the blade was dull or you feed the stock too fast.?
?
Is there a big benefit of a 1 ?¡± blade over a 1¡± blade over a ?¡± blade for sawing veneers?
?
?
What you are describing matches what I have been told by others who have compared NF with Tanny or Oliver.? The tension spring and mechanism might have more to do with which to use for resawing
than the castings but only using each will tell the true story.? I would avoid the 1.25" Carbide blade on either.? The .035" band on the 3/4 or 1" will be easier to tension than the .042 on the 1 1/4.? My Olivers tension the 1" but I have no experience with
the thicker band.? Dave
Also, the owner I bought from purchased used in 2006. He restored it including having Northfield true and balance the wheels and put on new tires.? New pads on the carter guides, etc.? Owner never put it in service and it sat on a pallet
unused since 2006.? Fresh paint too.? Should just needs power.
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Re: Kids and the Workshop - Funny Story
A strong magnet will destroy the magnetic banding on any of these DRO units, Fiama or the Siko units that Felder uses¡.
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So, as part of this hobby, I¡¯ve been bringing in the kids (10 & 6 YO boys) to teach them as well. ?We have safety rules on the wall, go through checklists before using equipment etc...because it¡¯s smart and engineers love writing procedures. ?Anyway, I got some DRO parallel arms in from Brian last week and went to install them. ?I used my precision level to make sure they were installed correctly. ?When I went to use them, I saw that they were way off for some reason. Called Brian to troubleshoot and the only thing we could come up with was that they were subjected to a strong magnetic field during shipping that threw them off. ?So I ordered a magnetic field viewer to check the strips?and confirmed that this was the case. ?When I told my oldest about that, he got a worried look on his face. ?He then told me that since I¡¯m old and my eyes aren¡¯t great (which they are), he decided to double check my work when I got the arms setup with the WIXY digital level that we have. ?They digital level that has a very strong magnet on the bottom of it....
-Annu
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Enjoy your new combo Andrew. I got the same thing about 4 months ago and am very happy with it. Lots of helpful people here on this site if you have any problems.
Regards, Tony
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Re: Northfield 32" Bandsaw
Blade breakage may be a point.? The only time I broke a big blade was when it was rubbing a lot on the ceramic rear rub disk with Laguna guides.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Northfield 32" Bandsaw
?
Joe, I can't speak to the larger blade.? The tension arguments go on forever.? My experience is not that different than yours although I see an improvement- slight but still an improvement - with
25K vs lower.? Mainly when using the full height of the resaw and also to keep the blade from moving into the rear bearing.? I try to keep the blade from heating up from rubbing the bearing.? I don't have any scientific evidence, I just know I haven't broken
any blades at 25K and I broke Trimaster blades at lower tension.? Dave
I spoke with people at both Tannewitz and Northfield on these saws.? Interestingly both unprompted offered that the internet groups obsession with
25,000 psi was flat out wrong. ?The Northfield guy said that¡¯s a spec for horizontal steel cutting bandsaws and irrelevant for wood saws. ?I being an engineer have a Starrett Bandsaw tension gauge so I¡¯ve been tensioning with that for years.? With my Felder
FB540 I can¡¯t get the 1¡± carbide blade over about 20,000 psi.? that said, it cuts perfectly and it always has.? I played with it at 15,000 and 20,000 and I notice no difference.? Having been at this for 40 years I never knew about tension gauges and always
tensioned until the blade was ¡°just taut enough¡±.? That always worked unless the blade was dull or you feed the stock too fast.?
?
Is there a big benefit of a 1 ?¡± blade over a 1¡± blade over a ?¡± blade for sawing veneers?
?
?
What you are describing matches what I have been told by others who have compared NF with Tanny or Oliver.? The tension spring and mechanism might have more to do with which to use for resawing
than the castings but only using each will tell the true story.? I would avoid the 1.25" Carbide blade on either.? The .035" band on the 3/4 or 1" will be easier to tension than the .042 on the 1 1/4.? My Olivers tension the 1" but I have no experience with
the thicker band.? Dave
Also, the owner I bought from purchased used in 2006. He restored it including having Northfield true and balance the wheels and put on new tires.? New pads on the carter guides, etc.? Owner never put it in service and it sat on a pallet
unused since 2006.? Fresh paint too.? Should just needs power.
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Re: Northfield 32" Bandsaw
Joe, I can't speak to the larger blade.? The tension arguments go on forever.? My experience is not that different than yours although I see an improvement- slight but still an improvement - with 25K vs lower.? Mainly when using the full height of the resaw
and also to keep the blade from moving into the rear bearing.? I try to keep the blade from heating up from rubbing the bearing.? I don't have any scientific evidence, I just know I haven't broken any blades at 25K and I broke Trimaster blades at lower tension.?
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I spoke with people at both Tannewitz and Northfield on these saws.? Interestingly both unprompted offered that the internet groups obsession with 25,000 psi was flat
out wrong. ?The Northfield guy said that¡¯s a spec for horizontal steel cutting bandsaws and irrelevant for wood saws. ?I being an engineer have a Starrett Bandsaw tension gauge so I¡¯ve been tensioning with that for years.? With my Felder FB540 I can¡¯t get
the 1¡± carbide blade over about 20,000 psi.? that said, it cuts perfectly and it always has.? I played with it at 15,000 and 20,000 and I notice no difference.? Having been at this for 40 years I never knew about tension gauges and always tensioned until the
blade was ¡°just taut enough¡±.? That always worked unless the blade was dull or you feed the stock too fast.?
?
Is there a big benefit of a 1 ?¡± blade over a 1¡± blade over a ?¡± blade for sawing veneers?
?
?
What you are describing matches what I have been told by others who have compared NF with Tanny or Oliver.? The tension spring and mechanism might have more to do with which to use for resawing than the castings but
only using each will tell the true story.? I would avoid the 1.25" Carbide blade on either.? The .035" band on the 3/4 or 1" will be easier to tension than the .042 on the 1 1/4.? My Olivers tension the 1" but I have no experience with the thicker band.? Dave
Also, the owner I bought from purchased used in 2006. He restored it including having Northfield true and balance the wheels and put on new tires.? New pads on the carter guides, etc.? Owner never put it in service and it sat on a pallet unused since 2006.?
Fresh paint too.? Should just needs power.
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Beating flat bandsaw blades
? ?I have 2 Laguna Resaw king blades that are $125+ each and teeth are great, but one drug a piece of foam through the lower wheel (cutting for upholstery) and the other pulled the dust collection plastic block right through on the first day it was installed! ??
I recently came upon some information that a kinked blade can be beaten back to shape. I always thought this was impossible due to work hardening. I'm not sure I trust the source. Has anyone ever re-flattened a kink in a bandsaw blade? What was your technique and results???
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Albert Lee
imran
Jason Holtz
Jonathan Martens
David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer
Joe Jensen