Felder Shaper Spindle 424-116 1 1/4 Inch
This has been reduced to $299. Sharing JIC, someone is on the fence.
?Imran
Begin forwarded message:
From: eBay <ebay@...>
Date: January 5, 2021 at 9:30:10 AM EST
To: imranindiana@...
Subject: felder shaper: 1 NEW!
?
|
|
|
|
|
Buy it now: $299.99
|
|
Same day shipping
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update your email preferences You are receiving this email based on your eBay account preferences. To change which emails you receive from eBay, go to in My eBay. |
|
|
Re: Ten woodworking tools you have to see
I see woodpeckers has a sale on the multi router from an email today.? ?So i thought I would revive this thread.? I was leaning toward a panto-router and wanted to ask if anyone had used both and what the set up was like.? I see David's comments on the multi-router which, as always, makes a lot of sense.? With the Pantorouter you move the router with the wood being clamped in one position and with the multi-router you move the work piece and tables to and around the router.? Does one of these methods make set up quicker and easier or is it "6 one 1/2 dozen the other"?
|
I do not see assembly drawing for AD741 in files, just the manual. Dual51 can be ordered with rubber infeed and outfeed rollers and it is a wear item. Do you have steel rollers? Mine is serrated steel on infeed and textured steel on outfeed.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 5, 2021, at 8:44 AM, david slater via groups.io <davidslater@...> wrote:
?Hi Imran,
The material is getting stuck at random times, one post may pass through ok(not often however), some get stuck halfway through and will need to be shoved with some serious force to get it through the rest of the way others just stop randomly and move again when pushed.
I have cleaned both the feed rollers as good as new. When the material is stuck the feed rollers do not stop they simply roll on top of the material. I have cleaned the bed with white spirit and scotch brite then re-waxed it but that still hasn¡¯t helped.
Regards, David.
|
Re: Update RE: [FOG] Langzauner Sander Delivery
That truly sucks. Who was the shipper? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Hi Imran,
The material is getting stuck at random times, one post may pass through ok(not often however), some get stuck halfway through and will need to be shoved with some serious force to get it through the rest of the way others just stop randomly and move again when pushed.
I have cleaned both the feed rollers as good as new. When the material is stuck the feed rollers do not stop they simply roll on top of the material. I have cleaned the bed with white spirit and scotch brite then re-waxed it but that still hasn¡¯t helped.
Regards, David.
|
Hi David,
So is the issue with infeed or the material is getting stuck at the very end when only outfeed is engaged?
I recently looked at my outfeed roller on dual51 and it had lots of resin from cypress. Came of easily with a natural cleaner we use in the house.
You likely know but this might help until the machine is fixed
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 5, 2021, at 7:36 AM, david slater via groups.io <davidslater@...> wrote: ?Hi Imran,
Yes the blades are practically new.
Regards, David.
|
Hi Imran,
Yes the blades are practically new.
Regards, David.
|
Assume you have tried changinh blades already.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 5, 2021, at 6:00 AM, david slater via groups.io <davidslater@...> wrote: ?Hi all
I wonder if any of you can help me with a problem i have been having with my thicknesser. Its a 2011 AD741, Recently I have been having issues with it feeding material through so i had the cowl off and noticed the drive chain for the feed rollers was extremely loose so i have just changed it for new thinking this was causing the issue. Unfortunately the issue remains and it still will not feed material through properly. I regularly wax the surface and this seems to help but only for a brief period of time.
I do run a large amount of green posts through it however i always have done and it did not used to be an issue. Today i waxed the bed again and ran some kiln dried douglas fir through it to test and whilst this mostly went through easier it still stuck a fair amount of times and needed shoving through.?
I have tried adjusting the tension on the feed rollers with the adjustment screws on top to no avail.
The machine sees a lot of work and will regularly get 1000bft through it in a day but it used to all just sail through without anything really sticking.
If any of you have any ideas as to what the problem may be i would be very grateful.
regards, David.
|
Hi all
I wonder if any of you can help me with a problem i have been having with my thicknesser. Its a 2011 AD741, Recently I have been having issues with it feeding material through so i had the cowl off and noticed the drive chain for the feed rollers was extremely loose so i have just changed it for new thinking this was causing the issue. Unfortunately the issue remains and it still will not feed material through properly. I regularly wax the surface and this seems to help but only for a brief period of time.
I do run a large amount of green posts through it however i always have done and it did not used to be an issue. Today i waxed the bed again and ran some kiln dried douglas fir through it to test and whilst this mostly went through easier it still stuck a fair amount of times and needed shoving through.?
I have tried adjusting the tension on the feed rollers with the adjustment screws on top to no avail.
The machine sees a lot of work and will regularly get 1000bft through it in a day but it used to all just sail through without anything really sticking.
If any of you have any ideas as to what the problem may be i would be very grateful.
regards, David.
|
Re: Kappa 400 Below Table Dust Extraction + Kappa 400 Review
If I would have known that I was going to end up with the k940 in the beginning I would have totally gone for the t60, still quite a jump from what I paid but still...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 4, 2021, at 6:38 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote:
?
A friend has a T60 and if you don¡¯t want all the CNC automation, it too is very well built.? I would say better built than all the Felder saw IMHO.
I really like how you move the fence with a crank on the operator side with a DRO on the screen to tell you the setting.
?
T75 loaded is like $70K plus.? T60 was like $22K
?
?
The Martin T70 or T75 are both TOTAL BEASTS!!?
I recommend you put a Martin T70 or T75 in the mix when evaluating an upgrade from the Kappa 400X.
?
On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:58 PM, Dmitry Ivanovs via
<divanov2@...> wrote:
?
I¡¯m happy with my Kappa. It was some issue with dust port. Always big chunks stack . But we came out solution?
Im even planing update to kappa 590 !!
Elegance Custom Cabinetry?
Regards?
?
Mark, I hope you are right, was kinda of disappointed to read of the poorer dust collection on the Kappa 400. I have enjoyed very good dust collection on my K500P
with Grizzly overhead dust guard. Of course I think the 5hp Oneida Gorilla Pro with Smart Boost cyclone has a lot to do with that.?
Pat
<Video.MOV>
|
Re: KF700sp and AD741 used pricing
Wait until you turn the handle the wrong way and wipe out $40 end mills or $50 worth of material. It¡¯s a steep slope indeed.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Who knew tooling could be so expensive?? I'm buying a mill and a lathe and having to suck it up to get the necessary tooling and equipment to make them functional.? Could have bought a nice teal machine for the price of this endeavor. Dave
Tool is expensive but don¡¯t be seduced by tooling you may not ever need.? I went with a 1 ?¡± spindle and I¡¯ve purchased a ton of basic profiles on ebay
used.? I¡¯ve also purchased Garniga from Rangate for the cabinet sets and some others.? I have used all the Garniga $$$ and probably ?¡± of the used ones.? But they were all between $30 and $90 each and things like roundovers and coves that I want when I need
them. ?
?
Did you intend to include a link or pics?
Have the machines been in hobby use or commercial?
Hard to say without condition and other details. Shaper tooling can easily add $$$.
?Hoping you guys could help me understand if this used Jointer planer and Saw/Shaper is a good deal at $7,500 for the J/P and $12,500 for the 8.5' KF700SP.? They come in what appears to be excellent condition, extension tables, some shaper
tooling and the KF700 has digi-drive and variable motor speed with separate saw motors for main saw blade and scoring blade.
Seems like it might be a little on the high side for 14+ year old equipment, but....
Please let me know what you think.
Thanks!
--
Mike Barrow
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: KF700sp and AD741 used pricing
Who knew tooling could be so expensive?? I'm buying a mill and a lathe and having to suck it up to get the necessary tooling and equipment to make them functional.? Could have bought a nice teal machine for the price of this endeavor. Dave
Tool is expensive but don¡¯t be seduced by tooling you may not ever need.? I went with a 1 ?¡± spindle and I¡¯ve purchased a ton of basic profiles on ebay
used.? I¡¯ve also purchased Garniga from Rangate for the cabinet sets and some others.? I have used all the Garniga $$$ and probably ?¡± of the used ones.? But they were all between $30 and $90 each and things like roundovers and coves that I want when I need
them.
?
?
Did you intend to include a link or pics?
Have the machines been in hobby use or commercial?
Hard to say without condition and other details. Shaper tooling can easily add $$$.
?Hoping you guys could help me understand if this used Jointer planer and Saw/Shaper is a good deal at $7,500 for the J/P and $12,500 for the 8.5' KF700SP.? They come in what appears to be excellent condition, extension tables, some shaper
tooling and the KF700 has digi-drive and variable motor speed with separate saw motors for main saw blade and scoring blade.
Seems like it might be a little on the high side for 14+ year old equipment, but....
Please let me know what you think.
Thanks!
--
Mike Barrow
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: KF700sp and AD741 used pricing
Tool is expensive but don¡¯t be seduced by tooling you may not ever need.? I went with a 1 ?¡± spindle and I¡¯ve purchased a ton of basic profiles on ebay
used.? I¡¯ve also purchased Garniga from Rangate for the cabinet sets and some others.? I have used all the Garniga $$$ and probably ?¡± of the used ones.? But they were all between $30 and $90 each and things like roundovers and coves that I want when I need
them.
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] KF700sp and AD741 used pricing
?
Did you intend to include a link or pics?
Have the machines been in hobby use or commercial?
Hard to say without condition and other details. Shaper tooling can easily add $$$.
On Jan 4, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Mike Barrow via groups.io <lunatuna23@...> wrote:
?Hoping you guys could help me understand if this used Jointer planer and Saw/Shaper is a good deal at $7,500 for the J/P and $12,500 for the 8.5' KF700SP. ?They come in what appears to be excellent condition, extension tables, some shaper
tooling and the KF700 has digi-drive and variable motor speed with separate saw motors for main saw blade and scoring blade.
Seems like it might be a little on the high side for 14+ year old equipment, but....
Please let me know what you think.
Thanks!
--
Mike Barrow
|
Re: Kappa 400 Below Table Dust Extraction + Kappa 400 Review
A T70 is about $45K in 2018 dollars Dave
A friend has a T60 and if you don¡¯t want all the CNC automation, it too is very well built.? I would say better built than all the Felder saw IMHO.
I really like how you move the fence with a crank on the operator side with a DRO on the screen to tell you the setting.
?
T75 loaded is like $70K plus.? T60 was like $22K
?
?
The Martin T70 or T75 are both TOTAL BEASTS!!?
I recommend you put a Martin T70 or T75 in the mix when evaluating an upgrade from the Kappa 400X.
?
On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:58 PM, Dmitry Ivanovs via
<divanov2@...> wrote:
?
I¡¯m happy with my Kappa. It was some issue with dust port. Always big chunks stack . But we came out solution?
Im even planing update to kappa 590 !!
Elegance Custom Cabinetry?
Regards?
?
Mark, I hope you are right, was kinda of disappointed to read of the poorer dust collection on the Kappa 400. I have enjoyed very good dust collection on my K500P
with Grizzly overhead dust guard. Of course I think the 5hp Oneida Gorilla Pro with Smart Boost cyclone has a lot to do with that.?
Pat
<Video.MOV>
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Update RE: [FOG] Langzauner Sander Delivery
I¡¯ve been working with Machinery Max and the shipper.? The machine is still strapped to the crushed pallets a month later as I don¡¯t see a way to strap
safely to get it off the pallets and I didn¡¯t want to do anything until we resolve who is covering this.?? Well today they told me to take it off the pallet and when looking again for a safe place to strap I found a bent frame where the table bolts to the
machine chassis.? Looks like maybe the machine did fall over and was lifted by the table. I now suspect the machine is not economically repairable and I am submitting a claim for complete loss.
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq.
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2020 8:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Langzauner Sander Delivery - Warning on Machinery Max Palletization
?
Shipper's Fault or no? don't bother yourself with such issues? and ? make the claim with the insurance
?
On 12/17/20 1:37 PM, David Kumm wrote:
That is horrible.? I didn't like Machinery Max before but this is beyond incompetence.? It is sad when the rare machine you search a long time for is in the hands of these people.? Dave
Warning to all who buy online auction items from Machinery Max.? I paid to have this palletized.? Spoke with the guy at the ship out site who is an employee of Machinery Max to ensure he would put blocking
under the machine feet so the machine would not break through the pallet.? He assured me he always does this and it would not be an issue. I pushed again telling him the last machine I had palletized indeed fell through the pallet.? He said he was the only
Machinery Max person there and the only one palletizing and loading and to not worry.
?
This is what was delivered.?
-
No blocking under the legs of the machine.?
-
Just ?¡± of MDF added to the top of the pallet for a 640KG machine.? Loose parts just laying on top of the machine, are they all even there??
-
Machine broke through which was certain to happen,? Trucking company had to put a second pallet under.
?
How in any world is this palletization acceptable?? I was assured it would be correctly palletized.? The machine is now much more beat up that in the auction pics.? Not sure I have any recourse.? I did buy
$10,000 of coverage for shipping but it was not the shipper¡¯s fault.
?
?
Joe Jensen
?|
VP Internet of Things Group?|
GM Retail Banking Hospitality and Education
480-554-8207¨COffice |
480-231-0669¨C°ä±ð±ô±ô ?
?
?
|
Re: Kappa 400 Below Table Dust Extraction + Kappa 400 Review
A friend has a T60 and if you don¡¯t want all the CNC automation, it too is very well built.? I would say better built than all the Felder saw IMHO.
I really like how you move the fence with a crank on the operator side with a DRO on the screen to tell you the setting.
?
T75 loaded is like $70K plus.? T60 was like $22K
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Randy Child via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Kappa 400 Below Table Dust Extraction + Kappa 400 Review
?
The Martin T70 or T75 are both TOTAL BEASTS!!?
I recommend you put a Martin T70 or T75 in the mix when evaluating an upgrade from the Kappa 400X.
?
On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:58 PM, Dmitry Ivanovs via
<divanov2@...> wrote:
?
I¡¯m happy with my Kappa. It was some issue with dust port. Always big chunks stack . But we came out solution?
Im even planing update to kappa 590 !!
Elegance Custom Cabinetry?
Regards?
?
Mark, I hope you are right, was kinda of disappointed to read of the poorer dust collection on the Kappa 400. I have enjoyed very good dust collection on my K500P
with Grizzly overhead dust guard. Of course I think the 5hp Oneida Gorilla Pro with Smart Boost cyclone has a lot to do with that.?
Pat
<Video.MOV>
|
Re: CNC (or at lest programmable) shaper setup adivce?
?Brett, ? You should get in touch with Tom Morris in Wichita.? He has a T-27. Dave Davies
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 4:54 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: You¡¯re welcome Brett.
I think you¡¯re wise to make the comparisons and consider the ¡°value¡± of each price bracket and each category of machine. So often Felder is compared to Martin but without references to the price difference. If one does not have the money for a Martin or even a more ¡°full-on¡± machine, then that¡¯s the end of the discussion. But if one does have the money, then value becomes important. Toyota versus AMG (we have both)! Ha!
Let¡¯s keep talking!
Lucky
Lucky,?
Thanks for your valuable contribution to this discussion. I had a feeling I was going to get the kind of answers regarding Martin products you had mentioned. I'm also looking to compare offerings from manufacturers just to understand the value proposition since for me it's not a clear path to choose.?
I'm also starting to wonder once these shaper rigs and tooling and accessories get so awesomely expensive that I shouldn't be making the alternative investment in a full-on 4 to 6 head moulder to accomplish some of the same missing efficiencies while adding more capacity to our production capabilities -? but I'm not trying to take a tangent to the original discussion of improved?shaper options. Lucky,
Yes, the sliding table I referred to is not the side sliding table for the tenonning on Martin shaper.
James
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 4:34 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: Hi Brett:
You mentioned the Profil 45Z (presumably X-motion) under a heading which included: ¡°CNC (or at least programmable)¡"
Regarding the Profil 45Z X-motion, here are some details. I¡¯ve had this machine for approximately 5 years. And channelling David Best¡¯s post from yesterday: Sorry Felder.
1. The Profil shaper will not hold calibration, not for the fence, not for the spindle. Period. I have more than a dozen cutters ¡°set up¡± and ¡°calibrated¡± in the machine, and another dozen cutters that I use manually and have not bothered to enter. I can calibrate one cutter perfectly, only to find that it is no longer calibrated a few weeks later. In such instances, the cutter is always out, by 0.1mm to 0.3mm. Always. (I have an Aigner Distometer for calibration purposes.)
2. At first various users thought this was a programming or user error. I certainly thought this. There is a ¡°calibration page¡± in the programming which ¡°no one¡± knows what to do with. Certainly no one in Australia. I believe John F. and Joe D. took the matter direct to Felder at a trade show in Europe but also did not get to the bottom of it. You¡¯d have to ask them for details.
3. I believe at least one user has done repeated testing (Joe D.) to see if the calibration issue is hardware rather than software. I recall that he found inconsistencies with the hardware (e.g. repeatedly moving the spindle up and down and then measuring for deviations). I think his comments are in the archives.
4. I am a professional woodworker who has only used a shaper for the last 5 years. I admit that I have a lot to learn. But I should also point out in my defence that I use my shaper for complex joinery and not as a glorified router table. So while I don¡¯t have the cred of someone like Ultimate Joe (I bow before you Joe!), I am speaking from first hand experience.
5. At the price I paid, I love the Profil X-motion. The interface is outstanding. But that interface controls what is essentially a manual shaper. If I want to use a previously calibrated cutter, I test the current settings (fence and height), make a test cut, and enter the discrepancy to re-calibrate the cutter. That¡¯s it: a very nice manual shaper.
6. I have recently participated in the installation of a T27 Martin shaper with all the boxes ticked. At more than twice the price of the Profil 45Z X-motion, it had better be good. I was blown away by the machine. To be clear, I don¡¯t know whether it holds calibration any better than the Profil, but ¡ :-)
7. I understand you desire a longer sliding table like the one Joe D. had. I would love that too, precisely for oversized doors. The T27 has a tenoning option which is very large and very robust. I think it is exactly what you want, but it comes at a very significant cost. (I¡¯m not sure what you mean James when you say that Martin do not have a sliding table on their shaper¡? I assume you mean across the front of the machine?)
My personal opinion: if you want a CNC or programmable shaper, I¡¯m confident you will be disappointed with the Profil 45Z X-motion.
Warm regards,
Lucky
All,?
I am considering the cost/value proposition of investing in a shaper setup that has automated programmable?setup capacities (or more?). I am curious what your recommendations may be for shopping brands, models,? and options. I'm becoming less convinced that a used machine will show up on the market as I've been looking for a while and what I've seen has pretty much only been Joe in N.O.'s Profile45, but admittedly I was looking for a larger sliding table to run oversized door setups, and I'm not totally convinced the Felder offerings are the only ones I should be looking at.?
Currently I'm invested in the 700z-class of shaper and not sure I'd want to give them up. I'd even consider putting on an upgraded fence module that can give me the automatic adjustments, but not sure if it is possible or if I can do it feasibly compared to adding another machine.?
With tedious manual setup inefficiencies switching back and forth on small projects I'm assessing the opportunity cost of all those nickels and dimes per se.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: CNC (or at lest programmable) shaper setup adivce?
You¡¯re welcome Brett.
I think you¡¯re wise to make the comparisons and consider the ¡°value¡± of each price bracket and each category of machine. So often Felder is compared to Martin but without references to the price difference. If one does not have the money for a Martin or even a more ¡°full-on¡± machine, then that¡¯s the end of the discussion. But if one does have the money, then value becomes important. Toyota versus AMG (we have both)! Ha!
Let¡¯s keep talking!
Lucky
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Lucky,?
Thanks for your valuable contribution to this discussion. I had a feeling I was going to get the kind of answers regarding Martin products you had mentioned. I'm also looking to compare offerings from manufacturers just to understand the value proposition since for me it's not a clear path to choose.?
I'm also starting to wonder once these shaper rigs and tooling and accessories get so awesomely expensive that I shouldn't be making the alternative investment in a full-on 4 to 6 head moulder to accomplish some of the same missing efficiencies while adding more capacity to our production capabilities -? but I'm not trying to take a tangent to the original discussion of improved?shaper options. Lucky,
Yes, the sliding table I referred to is not the side sliding table for the tenonning on Martin shaper.
James
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 4:34 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: Hi Brett:
You mentioned the Profil 45Z (presumably X-motion) under a heading which included: ¡°CNC (or at least programmable)¡"
Regarding the Profil 45Z X-motion, here are some details. I¡¯ve had this machine for approximately 5 years. And channelling David Best¡¯s post from yesterday: Sorry Felder.
1. The Profil shaper will not hold calibration, not for the fence, not for the spindle. Period. I have more than a dozen cutters ¡°set up¡± and ¡°calibrated¡± in the machine, and another dozen cutters that I use manually and have not bothered to enter. I can calibrate one cutter perfectly, only to find that it is no longer calibrated a few weeks later. In such instances, the cutter is always out, by 0.1mm to 0.3mm. Always. (I have an Aigner Distometer for calibration purposes.)
2. At first various users thought this was a programming or user error. I certainly thought this. There is a ¡°calibration page¡± in the programming which ¡°no one¡± knows what to do with. Certainly no one in Australia. I believe John F. and Joe D. took the matter direct to Felder at a trade show in Europe but also did not get to the bottom of it. You¡¯d have to ask them for details.
3. I believe at least one user has done repeated testing (Joe D.) to see if the calibration issue is hardware rather than software. I recall that he found inconsistencies with the hardware (e.g. repeatedly moving the spindle up and down and then measuring for deviations). I think his comments are in the archives.
4. I am a professional woodworker who has only used a shaper for the last 5 years. I admit that I have a lot to learn. But I should also point out in my defence that I use my shaper for complex joinery and not as a glorified router table. So while I don¡¯t have the cred of someone like Ultimate Joe (I bow before you Joe!), I am speaking from first hand experience.
5. At the price I paid, I love the Profil X-motion. The interface is outstanding. But that interface controls what is essentially a manual shaper. If I want to use a previously calibrated cutter, I test the current settings (fence and height), make a test cut, and enter the discrepancy to re-calibrate the cutter. That¡¯s it: a very nice manual shaper.
6. I have recently participated in the installation of a T27 Martin shaper with all the boxes ticked. At more than twice the price of the Profil 45Z X-motion, it had better be good. I was blown away by the machine. To be clear, I don¡¯t know whether it holds calibration any better than the Profil, but ¡ :-)
7. I understand you desire a longer sliding table like the one Joe D. had. I would love that too, precisely for oversized doors. The T27 has a tenoning option which is very large and very robust. I think it is exactly what you want, but it comes at a very significant cost. (I¡¯m not sure what you mean James when you say that Martin do not have a sliding table on their shaper¡? I assume you mean across the front of the machine?)
My personal opinion: if you want a CNC or programmable shaper, I¡¯m confident you will be disappointed with the Profil 45Z X-motion.
Warm regards,
Lucky
All,?
I am considering the cost/value proposition of investing in a shaper setup that has automated programmable?setup capacities (or more?). I am curious what your recommendations may be for shopping brands, models,? and options. I'm becoming less convinced that a used machine will show up on the market as I've been looking for a while and what I've seen has pretty much only been Joe in N.O.'s Profile45, but admittedly I was looking for a larger sliding table to run oversized door setups, and I'm not totally convinced the Felder offerings are the only ones I should be looking at.?
Currently I'm invested in the 700z-class of shaper and not sure I'd want to give them up. I'd even consider putting on an upgraded fence module that can give me the automatic adjustments, but not sure if it is possible or if I can do it feasibly compared to adding another machine.?
With tedious manual setup inefficiencies switching back and forth on small projects I'm assessing the opportunity cost of all those nickels and dimes per se.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: CNC (or at lest programmable) shaper setup adivce?
Lucky,?
Thanks for your valuable contribution to this discussion. I had a feeling I was going to get the kind of answers regarding Martin products you had mentioned. I'm also looking to compare offerings from manufacturers just to understand the value proposition since for me it's not a clear path to choose.?
I'm also starting to wonder once these shaper rigs and tooling and accessories get so awesomely expensive that I shouldn't be making the alternative investment in a full-on 4 to 6 head moulder to accomplish some of the same missing efficiencies while adding more capacity to our production capabilities -? but I'm not trying to take a tangent to the original discussion of improved?shaper options.
Lucky,
Yes, the sliding table I referred to is not the side sliding table for the tenonning on Martin shaper.
James
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 4:34 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: Hi Brett:
You mentioned the Profil 45Z (presumably X-motion) under a heading which included: ¡°CNC (or at least programmable)¡"
Regarding the Profil 45Z X-motion, here are some details. I¡¯ve had this machine for approximately 5 years. And channelling David Best¡¯s post from yesterday: Sorry Felder.
1. The Profil shaper will not hold calibration, not for the fence, not for the spindle. Period. I have more than a dozen cutters ¡°set up¡± and ¡°calibrated¡± in the machine, and another dozen cutters that I use manually and have not bothered to enter. I can calibrate one cutter perfectly, only to find that it is no longer calibrated a few weeks later. In such instances, the cutter is always out, by 0.1mm to 0.3mm. Always. (I have an Aigner Distometer for calibration purposes.)
2. At first various users thought this was a programming or user error. I certainly thought this. There is a ¡°calibration page¡± in the programming which ¡°no one¡± knows what to do with. Certainly no one in Australia. I believe John F. and Joe D. took the matter direct to Felder at a trade show in Europe but also did not get to the bottom of it. You¡¯d have to ask them for details.
3. I believe at least one user has done repeated testing (Joe D.) to see if the calibration issue is hardware rather than software. I recall that he found inconsistencies with the hardware (e.g. repeatedly moving the spindle up and down and then measuring for deviations). I think his comments are in the archives.
4. I am a professional woodworker who has only used a shaper for the last 5 years. I admit that I have a lot to learn. But I should also point out in my defence that I use my shaper for complex joinery and not as a glorified router table. So while I don¡¯t have the cred of someone like Ultimate Joe (I bow before you Joe!), I am speaking from first hand experience.
5. At the price I paid, I love the Profil X-motion. The interface is outstanding. But that interface controls what is essentially a manual shaper. If I want to use a previously calibrated cutter, I test the current settings (fence and height), make a test cut, and enter the discrepancy to re-calibrate the cutter. That¡¯s it: a very nice manual shaper.
6. I have recently participated in the installation of a T27 Martin shaper with all the boxes ticked. At more than twice the price of the Profil 45Z X-motion, it had better be good. I was blown away by the machine. To be clear, I don¡¯t know whether it holds calibration any better than the Profil, but ¡ :-)
7. I understand you desire a longer sliding table like the one Joe D. had. I would love that too, precisely for oversized doors. The T27 has a tenoning option which is very large and very robust. I think it is exactly what you want, but it comes at a very significant cost. (I¡¯m not sure what you mean James when you say that Martin do not have a sliding table on their shaper¡? I assume you mean across the front of the machine?)
My personal opinion: if you want a CNC or programmable shaper, I¡¯m confident you will be disappointed with the Profil 45Z X-motion.
Warm regards,
Lucky
All,?
I am considering the cost/value proposition of investing in a shaper setup that has automated programmable?setup capacities (or more?). I am curious what your recommendations may be for shopping brands, models,? and options. I'm becoming less convinced that a used machine will show up on the market as I've been looking for a while and what I've seen has pretty much only been Joe in N.O.'s Profile45, but admittedly I was looking for a larger sliding table to run oversized door setups, and I'm not totally convinced the Felder offerings are the only ones I should be looking at.?
Currently I'm invested in the 700z-class of shaper and not sure I'd want to give them up. I'd even consider putting on an upgraded fence module that can give me the automatic adjustments, but not sure if it is possible or if I can do it feasibly compared to adding another machine.?
With tedious manual setup inefficiencies switching back and forth on small projects I'm assessing the opportunity cost of all those nickels and dimes per se.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: CNC (or at lest programmable) shaper setup adivce?
Lucky,
Yes, the sliding table I referred to is not the side sliding table for the tenonning on Martin shaper.
James
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 4:34 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: Hi Brett:
You mentioned the Profil 45Z (presumably X-motion) under a heading which included: ¡°CNC (or at least programmable)¡"
Regarding the Profil 45Z X-motion, here are some details. I¡¯ve had this machine for approximately 5 years. And channelling David Best¡¯s post from yesterday: Sorry Felder.
1. The Profil shaper will not hold calibration, not for the fence, not for the spindle. Period. I have more than a dozen cutters ¡°set up¡± and ¡°calibrated¡± in the machine, and another dozen cutters that I use manually and have not bothered to enter. I can calibrate one cutter perfectly, only to find that it is no longer calibrated a few weeks later. In such instances, the cutter is always out, by 0.1mm to 0.3mm. Always. (I have an Aigner Distometer for calibration purposes.)
2. At first various users thought this was a programming or user error. I certainly thought this. There is a ¡°calibration page¡± in the programming which ¡°no one¡± knows what to do with. Certainly no one in Australia. I believe John F. and Joe D. took the matter direct to Felder at a trade show in Europe but also did not get to the bottom of it. You¡¯d have to ask them for details.
3. I believe at least one user has done repeated testing (Joe D.) to see if the calibration issue is hardware rather than software. I recall that he found inconsistencies with the hardware (e.g. repeatedly moving the spindle up and down and then measuring for deviations). I think his comments are in the archives.
4. I am a professional woodworker who has only used a shaper for the last 5 years. I admit that I have a lot to learn. But I should also point out in my defence that I use my shaper for complex joinery and not as a glorified router table. So while I don¡¯t have the cred of someone like Ultimate Joe (I bow before you Joe!), I am speaking from first hand experience.
5. At the price I paid, I love the Profil X-motion. The interface is outstanding. But that interface controls what is essentially a manual shaper. If I want to use a previously calibrated cutter, I test the current settings (fence and height), make a test cut, and enter the discrepancy to re-calibrate the cutter. That¡¯s it: a very nice manual shaper.
6. I have recently participated in the installation of a T27 Martin shaper with all the boxes ticked. At more than twice the price of the Profil 45Z X-motion, it had better be good. I was blown away by the machine. To be clear, I don¡¯t know whether it holds calibration any better than the Profil, but ¡ :-)
7. I understand you desire a longer sliding table like the one Joe D. had. I would love that too, precisely for oversized doors. The T27 has a tenoning option which is very large and very robust. I think it is exactly what you want, but it comes at a very significant cost. (I¡¯m not sure what you mean James when you say that Martin do not have a sliding table on their shaper¡? I assume you mean across the front of the machine?)
My personal opinion: if you want a CNC or programmable shaper, I¡¯m confident you will be disappointed with the Profil 45Z X-motion.
Warm regards,
Lucky
All,?
I am considering the cost/value proposition of investing in a shaper setup that has automated programmable?setup capacities (or more?). I am curious what your recommendations may be for shopping brands, models,? and options. I'm becoming less convinced that a used machine will show up on the market as I've been looking for a while and what I've seen has pretty much only been Joe in N.O.'s Profile45, but admittedly I was looking for a larger sliding table to run oversized door setups, and I'm not totally convinced the Felder offerings are the only ones I should be looking at.?
Currently I'm invested in the 700z-class of shaper and not sure I'd want to give them up. I'd even consider putting on an upgraded fence module that can give me the automatic adjustments, but not sure if it is possible or if I can do it feasibly compared to adding another machine.?
With tedious manual setup inefficiencies switching back and forth on small projects I'm assessing the opportunity cost of all those nickels and dimes per se.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
imran
Jason Holtz
Joe Jensen
David Luckensmeyer