Re: Looking to purchase Sliding table saw or combo machine
I have a Felder CF-741 professional combo machine near San Luis Obispo. It was purchased new in 2002 and used by a hobbyist. Please email for details if you are interested.
redwoodcoaster@...
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Yes, the longest slider with the K500 comes with it.
Not sure how useful it is, but I put them on my saw.
Bill
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Of course a work from a Master can increase in value after his death.?
More often than not in the painting works. ? A painting by van Gogh wasn’t expensive in his lifetime , but now you can’t touch one for tens of millions of dollars. ?Sometimes north off 100m.?
All the Italian masters had apprentices and passed their work off as their own. ? It does take skill to teach and season an apprentice to that level too. ? And it’s an entirely different skill set teaching than the original craft / trade.?
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Randy Child via groups.io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
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Re: Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
Mark,
The plate is held by 2 screws. i assume it also helps to keep the housing tight against the round bar so that it slides smoothly. if your machine was newer it might be different.
Imran
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Thought I had adjusted mine some how, i was having the same behavior? On Dec 16, 2020, at 3:48 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? My KF700 is 2002. Here is the rip fence locking detail
no adjustment. the plate is just pushed in and it clamps on the round bar. someone may have just guided me to not push it all the way. never had an issue with staying put.
Imran
On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Philip Davidson <pgdiv4@...> wrote:
? I have a similar rip fence and there is no way to push it all the way down. ?It locks with just pushing down to you fell a firm touch. ?Easy to pull up and have never had it move. ? Philip Davidson? On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:52 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I seem to recall that my rip fence was tighter than my liking early on. this is 19 yrs ago so do not recall what i did. never had an issues since. i have removed the rip fence and the bar since it is only a shaper now but the fence housing is laying on the table. when i am in shop later, i will take a look. i seem to recall that the cam portion of the lever forces a plate into the round bar.
Imran On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: ? Interesting, i really do need to take the fence off and have a look at it. It wasnt my only/primary saw until recently, and i admit my laziness never allowed for me to delve into it deeply. Now it is my only table saw and im using the rip fence much much more.?
My rip fence system is different from yours. Mine is mounted to a round bar. Looks like the 2020 KF700 has the same/similar fence.
Patrick Patrick,
I had the same issue with my CF 741 2008 model. I couldn't open the rip fence lever and almost broke the handle using my both hands. On next time , I had the same issue, I noticed that the lever is not inserted deep inside the hole and the eccentric end of the lever shaft jummed? at the edge of the P channel. It could be you had the same issue.
Alex Zoric
-------- Original message -------- Date: 16/12/2020 17:04 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [FOG] Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
This has bugged me forever, but i never asked anyone about it. Last night i used my 2005 KF700 for a bit, and the rip fence lever is absurdly stubborn to lift up on. One, i find the stubby plastic handle to be uncomfortable and too short to apply/unapply pressure. Two, once its locked, it is always a two-handed approach to undo the fence--left hand on top of the fence head, right hand yanking up on the handle--which almost always results in me smacking my right hand off the fence body when the lever finally lets loose. Ive owned 2 unifences, 2-3 biesemeyer fences, one VSCT fence, and a Martin T17 fence. Of them all, the VSCT and Martin have the best/most satisfying locking/unlocking action. The others were fine, and absolutely none were like this felder fence. Is this specific to me and something i can adjust, or is this just how the fence operates? Has anyone replaced the handle of their rip fence to something longer for greater leverage? The operation of the fence is perfectly fine, and it stays put once its locked, but the ergonomics couldnt?suck more.?
Patrick
-- Philip davidsonukuleles.com
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I had no idea that K500 uses support legs on the slider base extrusion. I assume this is for longer sliders only.
Imran
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote: ?I have the same on my K500 (2800mm) so I have place to put a leg at each end.
First of all, the legs are not a replacement for an additional bolt attachment for your slider to the base frame. You can only force the slider base up with the leg, but in no way you can force the slider base down. If that make sense.
Secondly, the leg will adjust the slider level at the other side. That is if you play with your outfeed leg as in your pictures, the infeed part of your slider will be affected. I got this information from the support and confirmed that it works this way with dial caliper and others.
There is so much you can do with those legs, I was not able to correct my slider to the level I wanted. However, if you put some heavy stuff on your slider it will avoid too much flex on it.
On my setup I use the legs to force the slider base up to the point it started to not be positive for the overall result and stopped here.
Bill
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A $20 iron vs. a $15,000 laser? Not sure I’d call that cheaper...
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Sam would layout the material and cut all the parts and assemble the chair as well as do the rough shaping before turning it over to the boys for shaping and sanding..he felt if he allowed them to do the cutting and assembling, it would not be his chair..so I guess now since Sam is gone, of course Mike has to do everything Sam did and it looks like they laser etch the Maloof name onto the piece,? which to me is an impersonal way to sign off on it..I'd rather see the name burned in like Sam did..just feels like a cheaper way to go, laser etching it.?
Sam may have signed all the chairs that left his shop but I though he had a number of employees that actually did the building of the chairs. Anyways your right something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. 20k still seems a lot to me for a single rocker but then again I've not had the chance to sit in a real one.
It does seem that the value does diminish after the original creator/master is gone. This seems to apply to not only wood working but other areas as well. Outside of wood working I've not seen the products come anywhere near the value of the original even it was built by the same helpers that made the original. So it would seem that to be truly authentic it needs so be signed off by the master.
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Re: Fine Adjustment for Rip Fence on Hammer B3
Brian,
Here is the micro adjust on KF700.?Brass pin to lock the C shape part onto the round tube. and parts diagram shows the detail. from your description sounds similar to Hammer.
Assuming, hammer is similar, Item#8 below be hard to do cheap, unless you have equipment to do so. $200 for the whole assembly is not bad compared to what it may cost to recreate it.
Imran
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On Dec 15, 2020, at 11:56 PM, Brian <brian@...> wrote: ?I recently picked up a slightly used (2017) Hammer B3 Winner.? I'm considering adding the Fine Adjustment mechanism that Felder sells.? The original owner added a Wixey DRO, so there could be some added benefit to being able to make precise adjustments.? (I'm still deciding if the Wixey is worth some of its quirks).? I've looked for posts about this option, but can't seemed to find any.? It's $201 on Felder's website, which is I guess reasonable for Felder.? It looks pretty simple, 2 threaded knobs, nuts, washers, and a piece of machined steel that slides on the guide rail and the knobs thread onto.? Any thoughts or experience using it on your Hammer's would be appreciated.
I'm also looking for a blade guard.? The stock one was damaged, so I can either order a replacement from Felder ($75) or look at other alternatives.? I'm planning to hook up dust collection to it, so an alternative would need to work that.??
Thanks
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Re: Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
Thought I had adjusted mine some how, i was having the same behavior?
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 3:48 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? My KF700 is 2002. Here is the rip fence locking detail
no adjustment. the plate is just pushed in and it clamps on the round bar. someone may have just guided me to not push it all the way. never had an issue with staying put.
Imran
On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Philip Davidson <pgdiv4@...> wrote:
? I have a similar rip fence and there is no way to push it all the way down. ?It locks with just pushing down to you fell a firm touch. ?Easy to pull up and have never had it move. ? Philip Davidson? On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:52 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I seem to recall that my rip fence was tighter than my liking early on. this is 19 yrs ago so do not recall what i did. never had an issues since. i have removed the rip fence and the bar since it is only a shaper now but the fence housing is laying on the table. when i am in shop later, i will take a look. i seem to recall that the cam portion of the lever forces a plate into the round bar.
Imran On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: ? Interesting, i really do need to take the fence off and have a look at it. It wasnt my only/primary saw until recently, and i admit my laziness never allowed for me to delve into it deeply. Now it is my only table saw and im using the rip fence much much more.?
My rip fence system is different from yours. Mine is mounted to a round bar. Looks like the 2020 KF700 has the same/similar fence.
Patrick Patrick,
I had the same issue with my CF 741 2008 model. I couldn't open the rip fence lever and almost broke the handle using my both hands. On next time , I had the same issue, I noticed that the lever is not inserted deep inside the hole and the eccentric end of the lever shaft jummed? at the edge of the P channel. It could be you had the same issue.
Alex Zoric
-------- Original message -------- Date: 16/12/2020 17:04 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [FOG] Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
This has bugged me forever, but i never asked anyone about it. Last night i used my 2005 KF700 for a bit, and the rip fence lever is absurdly stubborn to lift up on. One, i find the stubby plastic handle to be uncomfortable and too short to apply/unapply pressure. Two, once its locked, it is always a two-handed approach to undo the fence--left hand on top of the fence head, right hand yanking up on the handle--which almost always results in me smacking my right hand off the fence body when the lever finally lets loose. Ive owned 2 unifences, 2-3 biesemeyer fences, one VSCT fence, and a Martin T17 fence. Of them all, the VSCT and Martin have the best/most satisfying locking/unlocking action. The others were fine, and absolutely none were like this felder fence. Is this specific to me and something i can adjust, or is this just how the fence operates? Has anyone replaced the handle of their rip fence to something longer for greater leverage? The operation of the fence is perfectly fine, and it stays put once its locked, but the ergonomics couldnt?suck more.?
Patrick
-- Philip davidsonukuleles.com
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Re: Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
My KF700 is 2002. Here is the rip fence locking detail
no adjustment. the plate is just pushed in and it clamps on the round bar. someone may have just guided me to not push it all the way. never had an issue with staying put.
Imran
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Philip Davidson <pgdiv4@...> wrote:
? I have a similar rip fence and there is no way to push it all the way down. ?It locks with just pushing down to you fell a firm touch. ?Easy to pull up and have never had it move. ? Philip Davidson? On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:52 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I seem to recall that my rip fence was tighter than my liking early on. this is 19 yrs ago so do not recall what i did. never had an issues since. i have removed the rip fence and the bar since it is only a shaper now but the fence housing is laying on the table. when i am in shop later, i will take a look. i seem to recall that the cam portion of the lever forces a plate into the round bar.
Imran On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: ? Interesting, i really do need to take the fence off and have a look at it. It wasnt my only/primary saw until recently, and i admit my laziness never allowed for me to delve into it deeply. Now it is my only table saw and im using the rip fence much much more.?
My rip fence system is different from yours. Mine is mounted to a round bar. Looks like the 2020 KF700 has the same/similar fence.
Patrick Patrick,
I had the same issue with my CF 741 2008 model. I couldn't open the rip fence lever and almost broke the handle using my both hands. On next time , I had the same issue, I noticed that the lever is not inserted deep inside the hole and the eccentric end of the lever shaft jummed? at the edge of the P channel. It could be you had the same issue.
Alex Zoric
-------- Original message -------- Date: 16/12/2020 17:04 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [FOG] Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
This has bugged me forever, but i never asked anyone about it. Last night i used my 2005 KF700 for a bit, and the rip fence lever is absurdly stubborn to lift up on. One, i find the stubby plastic handle to be uncomfortable and too short to apply/unapply pressure. Two, once its locked, it is always a two-handed approach to undo the fence--left hand on top of the fence head, right hand yanking up on the handle--which almost always results in me smacking my right hand off the fence body when the lever finally lets loose. Ive owned 2 unifences, 2-3 biesemeyer fences, one VSCT fence, and a Martin T17 fence. Of them all, the VSCT and Martin have the best/most satisfying locking/unlocking action. The others were fine, and absolutely none were like this felder fence. Is this specific to me and something i can adjust, or is this just how the fence operates? Has anyone replaced the handle of their rip fence to something longer for greater leverage? The operation of the fence is perfectly fine, and it stays put once its locked, but the ergonomics couldnt?suck more.?
Patrick
-- Philip davidsonukuleles.com
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Re: Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
Wow, I lust after that machine but I don’t have enough dust collection to run a 43” triple head.? Probably fine with a double 37”
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Joe Jensen
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 1:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
No, what are they selling?
?
?
Joe, did you see the sander on Woodweb from 360?? dave
I just bought a production edge sander for over $9K counting auction premium and shipping and I’m a hobbiest.? Why. I hate sanding, nearly all projects
have edges to sand, and I wanted it ?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of JP Rice via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
I truly appreciate all the comments
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Re: Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
No, what are they selling?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 1:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
Joe, did you see the sander on Woodweb from 360?? dave
I just bought a production edge sander for over $9K counting auction premium and shipping and I’m a hobbiest.? Why. I hate sanding, nearly all projects
have edges to sand, and I wanted it ?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of JP Rice via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
I truly appreciate all the comments
|
Re: Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
Joe, did you see the sander on Woodweb from 360?? dave
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I just bought a production edge sander for over $9K counting auction premium and shipping and I’m a hobbiest.? Why. I hate sanding, nearly all projects have edges to sand,
and I wanted it ?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
JP Rice via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
I truly appreciate all the comments
|
Re: Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
Cheaper than a mistress, that’s what I tell my wife all the time
?
?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
If it's a hobby, it doesn't have to make $ense...
?
I just bought a production edge sander for over $9K counting auction premium and shipping
and I’m a hobbiest.? Why. I hate sanding, nearly all projects have edges to sand, and I wanted it
?
?
From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of JP Rice via
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
I truly appreciate all the comments
|
Re: Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
If it's a hobby, it doesn't have to make $ense...
Bill Bélanger
I just bought a production edge sander for over $9K counting auction premium and shipping and I’m a hobbiest.? Why. I hate sanding, nearly all projects
have edges to sand, and I wanted it ?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of JP Rice via
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
?
I truly appreciate all the comments
|
Sam and his 3 apprentices told me that they spend about 1 week each on each rocker.? So 160-200 hours.? $100 an hour is not out of the question at all.?
I suspect many many of Sam’s pieces were purchased for the rarity and not comfort.? Every one Sam made (he claimed) was sized to be comfortable for his 5’7” height.? Also when I toured in the last couple years of Sam’s life, they were getting nearly $50K for
chairs and they had a 10 year backlog.? I would think the collector value premium would be near zero for those not made when Sam was there.
?
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Re: Thoughts on going from K500 P to K700 S
I just bought a production edge sander for over $9K counting auction premium and shipping and I’m a hobbiest.? Why. I hate sanding, nearly all projects
have edges to sand, and I wanted it ?
?
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i would guess that Sam's estate would require some method to identify the pieces made after his death to keep the value of the originals supported.? Dave
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Meant hot iron stamp, Sam used a wood burning pen right?
On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?Personally, ?laser etch or iron is the same feels “production” and impersonal to me. hand signing in India ink is the way to go...
On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Randy Child via groups.io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
Sam would layout the material and cut all the parts and assemble the chair as well as do the rough shaping before turning it over to the boys for shaping and sanding..he felt if he allowed them to do the cutting and assembling, it would not be his chair..so
I guess now since Sam is gone, of course Mike has to do everything Sam did and it looks like they laser etch the Maloof name onto the piece,? which to me is an impersonal way to sign off on it..I'd rather see the name burned in like Sam did..just feels like
a cheaper way to go, laser etching it.?
On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 09:27:21 AM PST, David <david.hawxhurst@...> wrote:
Sam may have signed all the chairs that left his shop but I though he had a number of employees that actually did the building of the chairs. Anyways your right something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. 20k still seems a lot to me for
a single rocker but then again I've not had the chance to sit in a real one.
It does seem that the value does diminish after the original creator/master is gone. This seems to apply to not only wood working but other areas as well. Outside of wood working I've not seen the products come anywhere near the value of the original even it
was built by the same helpers that made the original. So it would seem that to be truly authentic it needs so be signed off by the master.
|
Meant hot iron stamp, Sam used a wood burning pen right?
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On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Personally, ?laser etch or iron is the same feels “production” and impersonal to me. hand signing in India ink is the way to go... On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Randy Child via groups.io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
Sam would layout the material and cut all the parts and assemble the chair as well as do the rough shaping before turning it over to the boys for shaping and sanding..he felt if he allowed them to do the cutting and assembling, it would not be his chair..so I guess now since Sam is gone, of course Mike has to do everything Sam did and it looks like they laser etch the Maloof name onto the piece,? which to me is an impersonal way to sign off on it..I'd rather see the name burned in like Sam did..just feels like a cheaper way to go, laser etching it.?
On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 09:27:21 AM PST, David <david.hawxhurst@...> wrote:
Sam may have signed all the chairs that left his shop but I though he had a number of employees that actually did the building of the chairs. Anyways your right something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. 20k still seems a lot to me for a single rocker but then again I've not had the chance to sit in a real one.
It does seem that the value does diminish after the original creator/master is gone. This seems to apply to not only wood working but other areas as well. Outside of wood working I've not seen the products come anywhere near the value of the original even it was built by the same helpers that made the original. So it would seem that to be truly authentic it needs so be signed off by the master.
|
Personally, ?laser etch or iron is the same feels “production” and impersonal to me. hand signing in India ink is the way to go...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Randy Child via groups.io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
Sam would layout the material and cut all the parts and assemble the chair as well as do the rough shaping before turning it over to the boys for shaping and sanding..he felt if he allowed them to do the cutting and assembling, it would not be his chair..so I guess now since Sam is gone, of course Mike has to do everything Sam did and it looks like they laser etch the Maloof name onto the piece,? which to me is an impersonal way to sign off on it..I'd rather see the name burned in like Sam did..just feels like a cheaper way to go, laser etching it.?
On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 09:27:21 AM PST, David <david.hawxhurst@...> wrote:
Sam may have signed all the chairs that left his shop but I though he had a number of employees that actually did the building of the chairs. Anyways your right something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay. 20k still seems a lot to me for a single rocker but then again I've not had the chance to sit in a real one.
It does seem that the value does diminish after the original creator/master is gone. This seems to apply to not only wood working but other areas as well. Outside of wood working I've not seen the products come anywhere near the value of the original even it was built by the same helpers that made the original. So it would seem that to be truly authentic it needs so be signed off by the master.
|
I have the same on my K500 (2800mm) so I have place to put a leg at each end.
First of all, the legs are not a replacement for an additional bolt attachment for your slider to the base frame. You can only force the slider base up with the leg, but in no way you can force the slider base down. If that make sense.
Secondly, the leg will adjust the slider level at the other side. That is if you play with your outfeed leg as in your pictures, the infeed part of your slider will be affected. I got this information from the support and confirmed that it works this way with dial caliper and others.
There is so much you can do with those legs, I was not able to correct my slider to the level I wanted. However, if you put some heavy stuff on your slider it will avoid too much flex on it.
On my setup I use the legs to force the slider base up to the point it started to not be positive for the overall result and stopped here.
Bill
|
imran
Joe Jensen
Bill Belanger
As most here know, I am a big Sam Maloof fan.? And most of you know that Sam passed away back in 2009.? At the time of his death, his iconic chairs were selling for $38,000 for the tiger maple rockers.? I do not know what they sell for now, but I heard they are around the $20,000 area now depending on what wood species they are made in.
I know Mike Johnson along with his son Stephen are continuing the business?and have purchased the Maloof woodworking part of the business, with Mike's wife Joanne running the office part, so it's all be kept within the Johnson family now.
It's obvious that Mike cannot command the same prices that Sam was able to get for his pieces.? My question is, on the new pieces that are made solely by Mike and His son, can they? ever increase in value over time, or will the only be worth what they are sold for since Mike does not have Sam's name or fame.? Basically the new pieces will only be worth as much as they are sold for and that's as far as they go, even way down the road since they do not have the signature that Sam added to his pieces?
?
I've often wondered if the value of the newly created pieces made by their helpers diminishes after the original master passes away or can they also increase in value over time?
food for thought