oh, forgot to add, use mill jacks under the unsupported ends sticking out of the vise to quiet down the chatter.
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 9:49 AM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
That's pretty cool, Ronnie! Thanks for sharing -- that pivot looks awesome and a neat idea to fix to the wall. If I add a pivot, it would be an iteration of your design.?There are a lot of people who make mods / new parts to various machines so glad to provide a bit of inspiration...I have one other saw related project that's still in early design stages :).
Brian -- at the very least, I think I will need a mating plate for the carriage/trucks. The majority (if not all) of the Asian cheapie rails are metric. I'll keep exploring; there are a lot of makers.?
Last night, I milled the first of the 3 adapter plates. Forgive the chatter on the surface, I'm not using the best work holding methods right now - that roughness is because 4" of the plate was hanging off the vise unsupported :).
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Looks great! If you can mill that, you can make the mounting plates for the trucks. All linear rails are metric, 12mm, 15mm, 20mm, 25mm and up.?
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 9:49 AM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
That's pretty cool, Ronnie! Thanks for sharing -- that pivot looks awesome and a neat idea to fix to the wall. If I add a pivot, it would be an iteration of your design.?There are a lot of people who make mods / new parts to various machines so glad to provide a bit of inspiration...I have one other saw related project that's still in early design stages :).
Brian -- at the very least, I think I will need a mating plate for the carriage/trucks. The majority (if not all) of the Asian cheapie rails are metric. I'll keep exploring; there are a lot of makers.?
Last night, I milled the first of the 3 adapter plates. Forgive the chatter on the surface, I'm not using the best work holding methods right now - that roughness is because 4" of the plate was hanging off the vise unsupported :).
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Re: The Annex workshop addition
Great location, between Valence and Cadiz.? ?What is the asking price for the building?
Paul in Metairie
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That's pretty cool, Ronnie! Thanks for sharing -- that pivot looks awesome and a neat idea to fix to the wall. If I add a pivot, it would be an iteration of your design.?There are a lot of people who make mods / new parts to various machines so glad to provide a bit of inspiration...I have one other saw related project that's still in early design stages :). Brian -- at the very least, I think I will need a mating plate for the carriage/trucks. The majority (if not all) of the Asian cheapie rails are metric. I'll keep exploring; there are a lot of makers.? Last night, I milled the first of the 3 adapter plates. Forgive the chatter on the surface, I'm not using the best work holding methods right now - that roughness is because 4" of the plate was hanging off the vise unsupported :).  
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That was my problem, I forgot¡. loved that it was quiet¡ but never had any other compressor that would cause that sort of problem.
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Brian, good to know on the cal air I have a small 10 gal and it is pretty quiet. I turn it off everytime I leave the shop except when I forget... On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it¡¯s not bad, but it¡¯s one of their ¡°cheaper¡± consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it¡¯s noisy. If I¡¯m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5¡± RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can¡¯t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn¡¯t recommend one of them.
On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I¡¯m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I¡¯ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I¡¯ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don¡¯t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It¡¯s obvious I need to do more research, that¡¯s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
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Brian, good to know on the cal air I have a small 10 gal and it is pretty quiet. I turn it off everytime I leave the shop except when I forget...
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it¡¯s not bad, but it¡¯s one of their ¡°cheaper¡± consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it¡¯s noisy. If I¡¯m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5¡± RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can¡¯t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn¡¯t recommend one of them.
On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I¡¯m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I¡¯ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I¡¯ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don¡¯t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It¡¯s obvious I need to do more research, that¡¯s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
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Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it¡¯s not bad, but it¡¯s one of their ¡°cheaper¡± consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it¡¯s noisy. If I¡¯m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5¡± RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can¡¯t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn¡¯t recommend one of them.
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I¡¯m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I¡¯ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I¡¯ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don¡¯t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It¡¯s obvious I need to do more research, that¡¯s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
Brian,
I¡¯m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I¡¯ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I¡¯ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don¡¯t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It¡¯s obvious I need to do more research, that¡¯s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
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And I¡¯m pretty sure you void the warranty if you change the oil and filters yourself, not that it can¡¯t be done, you just loose the warranty. Last I heard was $600 or more for normal maintenance.
I seriously considered a Kaeser given I run my CNC mill and it makes my 5hp compressor run fairly often, but I calculated the cfm per hour and it isn¡¯t anywhere close to making a Kaeser stay on the required amount of time. I¡¯ll keep my eyes open for a used Jun or Sil-Air and go that route for noise savings.
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If you still are considering a Kaeser, ?ask about the cost of the recommended routine maintenance.
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There are other brands than 8020, I keep seeing a guy selling surplus here on Craig¡¯s List and it¡¯s pretty cheap, although limited in choices for size.
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Every now and then I'll see a table or some enclosure on FB marketplace made out of 80/20 and I keep thinking I should buy it just for the components. Dave On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 10:47 PM Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote: Brian, Imran -- I think both your suggestions are great, will definitely extend the extrusion for some added support and exploring more bearing options. I like these bearings because I'm lazy and I didn't want to machine anything more than I needed. I've been learning Fusion 360 (it is a pain in the butt) with my little mill and I have a new found appreciation for machinists & their patience.?
Dave -- I have used 80/20 since my first CNC router build back some 7 yrs ago and fell in love with them, so while it seems I have a lot of them laying around I really just order what I need direct from them, on demand. Their service and packing are impeccable and I almost always find what I need from their eBay store at reasonable rates. Yes, costly but compared to having to powder coat, wire brush, and weld steel, I think I end up ahead in terms of labor saved. I think I assembled the arm in my design in like 15 - 20 minutes, which is a big savings.?
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Linear rails bolt right into the slots on 8020, so very little fabricating/drilling.
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On Jul 17, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
Brian, Imran -- I think both your suggestions are great, will definitely extend the extrusion for some added support and exploring more bearing options. I like these bearings because I'm lazy and I didn't want to machine anything more than I needed. I've been learning Fusion 360 (it is a pain in the butt) with my little mill and I have a new found appreciation for machinists & their patience.?
Dave -- I have used 80/20 since my first CNC router build back some 7 yrs ago and fell in love with them, so while it seems I have a lot of them laying around I really just order what I need direct from them, on demand. Their service and packing are impeccable and I almost always find what I need from their eBay store at reasonable rates. Yes, costly but compared to having to powder coat, wire brush, and weld steel, I think I end up ahead in terms of labor saved. I think I assembled the arm in my design in like 15 - 20 minutes, which is a big savings.?
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I know a few machine shop guys running that compressor with good success. It makes a load hissing noise when it unloads and stops, that¡¯s been the major complaint.
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On Jul 17, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
I came across this scroll type compressor on a Youtube video and was rather impressed with lack of noise and CFM output:?
I would love to try one someday to see how it really performs.?
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What do you plan to run with air? Too open ended of a question without some idea of what you want to do.
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On Jul 17, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Recommendations on motor size? Separate dryer?
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Yes, you have to have air flow around the compressor and the electric motor.
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Jason, ? The heat would kill the compressor? Dave Davies On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:29 PM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Tom, I have a 80 gallon, 5 HP with a separate dryer. This is in a 4000 foot coop shop with 6 people potentially working at once. It does the job well. Ours isn't the quietest, but we built an enclosure that helps quite a bit. Not fully enclosed, that would kill it says my neighbor. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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I've seen the noise issue mentioned several times but plumbing the intake out side only once.? So I will repeat. It helps.? It and can be easy too if near an exterior wall that is not near a neighbor.
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I purchased a Saylor-Beall 80gal/5HP about 6 years ago and it has been great. ?The low RPM, 2 stage is a litter quite too.
-Joe
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I did this setup a few years back w/ 8020 but mine was bolted to the wall over the K3. Not to long ago I've taken it down to fit my ShopSabre Pro404 in its place and yet to reinstall it. Basically had to pivot it to avoid the path of the ducting. Cut out 3/8" alum plate pivoting on 3/4" shaft. Worked pretty good. Did the manual connection by knob. Same for the up/down of the guard. Fitted the 3" hose over the top. Most of the alum was put together w/ Lord Adhesive Maxlok T/18 for the guard. That block of wood was for installation. It did dip a little due to weight. I believe I used HD 1530 for the arm. Suction was pretty good i think. Neat project, and after seeing some things pop up like this is getting me motivated to doing more stuff.  Ronnie
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Re: Joe in New Orleans Woodshed sell off
All,
Thanks for the nice comments about the shop. ?The 3D scan only took about 40 minutes. ?I had no idea scanning was that easy.
I am giving up Woodworking. ?I have really enjoyed the past 16 years of participation on the FOG learning and sharing and meeting other members. ?We are moving to Oregon and I don¡¯t feel like moving the shop and setting up again so I am going minimal.
I am selling individual items with some exceptions. I would like to sell the Leitz tilt and turn window set with accessories as a kit. ?I am putting together a list for that. ?Other exceptions will be bundled as machine and accessories to make things easier.
I should have the list together by early in this week and things will be available for pick up or shipping the second week in August. ?I am finishing a few projects. ?
The ceiling trolley makes painting so easy and fast as all sides of a workpiece can be painted without touching the workpiece to turn or flip, the workpieces can be left on the trolley hooks to dry then pushed back in front of the spray wall for a second coat. ?I bought 16 trolleys from Mac and those have worked well. ?
The Suvamatic has been great! ?One look at the porkchop guard that came with the General 880 after using the bridge guard on the CF731 and I ordered the Suvamatic and figured out a way to mount it. ?It has been worth the money.
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On Jul 17, 2020, at 9:36 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote:
Really great looking shop Joe. That 3D tour technology is incredible. Are you hanging it up? Are you hoping to sell it all as a package with the building, or are you selling it separate?
I love the trolley on the ceiling. And the SUVA guard on your 880 jointer. I think I need to get one. I hate that stupid porkchop, especially the way it's mounted in the wrong location and always leaves a bit of cutter exposed.
Jason
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Thanks for all the information, I was ready to spend 9k on a Kaeser. I¡¯m going to look for a separate dryer.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
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Tom:
I¡¯m going to pile in and strongly recommend against scroll/screw, etc. style compressors. I¡¯ve wasted money on two European units (albeit not Kaeser) but still very high quality machines.?
The first one destroyed itself after water leaked through and seized the compressor. I was ¡°smarter¡± the second time around and installed an Italian rotary screw machine with a timer to run the machine every day for 30 mins. Still not good enough. After 18 months, with factory servicing every 6 months, water had sufficiently mixed with the oil to corrode the screw so that it was making horrible scraping noises at 18 months. The company agreed to take the machine back at a very significant loss to them, and gave me (at a much reduced price) a two stage piston oiler that has been working nicely for the last couple of years.?
Do not be lured by the quiet compressors. They need to run nearly constantly to work well in the long term. I wasted approx $10k AUD to learn that lesson.?
4-5kW compressors are generally recognised as plenty. The separate dryer should be matched to CFM output which is usually around 15 for this size. I didn¡¯t pull the trigger but I recall they recommended a 1.5HP single phase dryer to go with my 4kW (5.5HP) compressor. There really is no need for the all-in-one style (Kaeser).
I have 550L of receiver (tank size) simply because my RL250 pulsed air cleaning system is an air-piggy.
Hopefully this helps.?
Cheers.?
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On 18 Jul 2020, at 11:10 am, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
?Recommendations on motor size? Separate dryer?
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Sang Luu
Jonathan Smith
David Luckensmeyer