Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I guess I need to replace three sliders now lol. I wonder how much my liability insurance would go down? I hope Altendorf will licence the tech to other manufacturers. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I think all in all..its better than not having anything at all..?
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 11:36:03 AM PST, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
Kind of depends upon the area around the blade that causes it to trip¡. timing would be greater the larger the area.
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.? On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
They really need to incorporate that inside the blade guard or
it'll be knocked? around and broken real quickly.
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
Kind of depends upon the area around the blade that causes it to trip¡. timing would be greater the larger the area.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.? On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
The video confirms the retraction time of about a quarter?second.? The sawstop detection event is flesh contact with blade, so response time needs to be a few milliseconds.? The Altendorf detection event is "hand approaching blade guard" via camera mounted on front of blade guard, and a quarter of a second seems sufficient for that.? ? This system doesn't seem like it'd be much help in a fast slip situation.?
This screenshot is at the instant of detection (camera annotation?is mine)
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
Maybe the article got it wrong, but it says the blade retracts in a quarter of a second? That sounds very slow. A SawStop breaks in 5ms, which is about 50 times faster.?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:33 AM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote:
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Felder e-shop has a graphic showing riving knife thickness.? ?Interestingly, it says non-CE compliant.? I wonder what isn't compliant.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:30 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Riving knives should be less than the kerf but greater than the plate in thickness.? The additional weight of the dado also creates issues when using an injection brake as the brake unit must be? manually adjusted to stop the heavier cutter .? That requires
either a larger brake unit or greatly reduces the number of times per hour the machine can be shut off.? Dave
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard
size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no. 500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left, a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Riving knives should be less than the kerf but greater than the plate in thickness.? The additional weight of the dado also creates issues when using an injection brake as the brake unit must be? manually adjusted to stop the heavier cutter .? That requires
either a larger brake unit or greatly reduces the number of times per hour the machine can be shut off.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:02:58 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard
size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no. 500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left, a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
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These are great. Thanks for the link.?
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Hammer K3 mobility solution
Hi. I recently acquired a Hammer K3 ?48x48 and with a really small shop space that lives most of its life as my wife¡¯s garage, everything has to be on wheels and able to be moved out of the way when woodworking time comes to an end. The factory mobility kit from Felder wouldn¡¯t work for me and I didn¡¯t like any of the aftermarket rolling bases. Last week I stumbled upon these machinery moving casters on amazon. They only add 1/2¡± to the height of the machine and are very sturdy and glide effortlessly.?
I place a small door stop style wedge under the front wheels when I¡¯m using the machine.?
A set of of is $105. Figured I¡¯d share. ?Search for ¡°Amarite Desk and Cabinet Corner Mover Dolly¡±
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Imran,
?
Did you use any washer with the mounts?? I am thinking of putting a fender washer ()?at the bottom of the chassis, above the bottom nut, to spread out the weight on a A951L and a D963.? BTW, price increased to $6.66 now.??
?
Thanks.
?
SW
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The crew is putting them through places today before we get more but the 3" castors appear to be good enough for the 300lb. rating and roll pretty well on our rough floor, and way nice to have 4-way swivel unlike the harbor freight hydro tables. The hand cranks are sufficient. Without measuring I'd say they could be drill operated with a 10mm hex, but hand isn't really a problem for rapid moves....the metal appears to be pretty hefty, maybe 11ga, and since we work in paint stripping and harsh chemicals we shall learn what grade of paint or powder coat was used soon enough. The top is about 30mm parawood like all the other husky tops, we may overlay our own tops to extend footprint capabilities and discussed boring dominoes into the edges to link them together when larger surfaces require.
In our shop, having a modular system of work tables is key as we are constantly rearranging for projects and being able to nest them away for storage is extremely valuable. They look good, seem easy to use with uneven floors, and I think we will have to work hard to break them.??
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:00 AM < tom@...> wrote: Brett that's fabulous! Do the tables feel reasonably robust? My expectation is that they're not as heavy duty as a hydraulic table, but for ~$150-200 they seem like a nice value. My memory is that the adjustment crank has a hex connection, and that for rapid height adjustments a guy could use a drill with a socket in lieu of the handle?.... I'll chat with the manager at my local Home Depot, see if I can get a similar deal....
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
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Brett that's fabulous! Do the tables feel reasonably robust? My expectation is that they're not as heavy duty as a hydraulic table, but for ~$150-200 they seem like a nice value. My memory is that the adjustment crank has a hex connection, and that for rapid height adjustments a guy could use a drill with a socket in lieu of the handle?.... I'll chat with the manager at my local Home Depot, see if I can get a similar deal....
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
That's pretty slick. Here's a direct link to a video. ?? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Felder also lists the adjustable dado (6.3 mm to 20 mm) on the Dutch and other european sites:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I think I just saw recently that Felder has something like this as well, if I remember correctly.
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:17:40 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:02:58 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
|
Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
|
Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
|
Jason Holtz
Bill Belanger
Tom Gensmer