Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Hi Imran,
For me the system has to be wireless for easy instal. My thoughts on machine turn-on detection was a accelerometer mounted on the machine with a Bluetooth transmitter.
Where would you put the accelerometer? 听One of the pulleys? 听Any products like that out there?
This transmitter (there can be multiple of these) coupled with an aurdino based Bluetooth receiver that controls dust collector (this can remain RF as mechanism is already in place) and blast gates could make a wireless system hat should be easy to install.
This actually sounds nice. 听If you need programming support I can help.
Regards, Denis
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Nicely done Dan. I have thought of a similar device like Brian mentions but never acted upon it due to lack of time.
For me the system has to be wireless for easy instal. My thoughts on machine turn-on detection was a accelerometer mounted on the machine with a Bluetooth transmitter.
This transmitter (there can be multiple of these) coupled with an aurdino based Bluetooth receiver that controls dust collector (this can remain RF as mechanism is already in place) and blast gates could make a wireless system hat should be easy to install.
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Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
I used to be听really into German cars. I owned听Mostly BMW but also one Audi and one Mercedes. This was ten years ago now. I owned six BMW's in that time all the way from a 318i to a Near new M3.
By far the Mercedes was the biggest piece of crap car i ever owned. For point of refernce i now own a Nissan Frontier and althought the trim is plastic it is a very reliable and well built vehicle.听听
Bellow every surface of that Mercedes was plastic. From a engineering perspective the car handled like crap also. If听you know anything about cars and put your head under the hood you would quickly understand why! Everything was bottom of th barrel.听Now this was a C class but still a Mercedes non the less. I had a Jetta that was by far superior with regard to quality of build regarding both engineeiring and fit and finish.
I would say Felder is like a nice VW imop... Maybe mid range A4?
听
On Sunday, December 4, 2016, James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
听
I have precision miter with length compensation.听
James
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit |
听
Interesting.听 The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170
Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence O
173
Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger O
171
Digital flip stop 74鈥� (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126鈥� (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500 O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
I have precision miter with length compensation.听
James
From: garrisonstuber@... [felder-woodworking] Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 1:16 AM To: felder-woodworking@... Reply To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit |
听
Interesting.听 The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170
Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence O
173
Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger O
171
Digital flip stop 74鈥� (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126鈥� (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500 O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 (http://maschinen.felder-gruppe.at/uploads/machinedetails/ee86e9abb0fab0c09c26960b5a54fed4258785f8.jpg)
or the 171 (http://maschinen.felder-gruppe.at/uploads/machinedetails/dd42bba348c336a77533ff40f390f5e359604be3.jpg)
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
If you mainly cut sheet goods, and need to cut miter or another angle, then precision miter attachment is what you need, cause EGL or DGL has length limit.
Yes, you can easily switch between metric and imperial. I already switch to metric, much easy and makes life simple.
James
From: garrisonstuber@... [felder-woodworking] Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 1:00 AM To: felder-woodworking@... Reply To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit |
听
Thanks James, and thank you for the numbers on the scoring motor as well.听 I'm still not sure how much cross cutting I'm going to do on this machine, other than panels.听 I get spot on repeatable cross cuts with my collection well tuned vintage DeWalt radial saws.听 The only problem is that slicing up a 4x8 sheet on them sucks.听 With the right blade (negative hook) and adjustments you can safely rip, but it's awkward and the dust collection is abysmal.听 My primary focus for this machine will be sheet goods, ripping (though I do a lot of that on my bandsaw), and shaping. That said, the DROs may still be very useful for setting up for sheet goods.
I assume that the DRO will happily switch between standard and metric?听 I plan on going with a metric machine.听 (I have largely switched to metric in my woodworking.)
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Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Felder is no where near Bentley. A few years ago I got an Audi A8L, pretty decked out and felt pretty special. Parked it in a ramp for a Badger game ( only ramp it ever saw ) and thought I had the coolest car there. Came back out to find a new Flying Spur, black like mine, right next to it. Not even close. Totally deflating. I've got an S550 now and waiting for a Bentley to show up and make me look bad. Which it will. Dave
________________________________
From: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> on behalf of 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 5:03 AM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Hi Julie, nice to read your note, and thanks for the clarification. So I went to my stash of catalogs from Felder (the most recent one I have is 2012) - beginning to wonder if I抎 lost my mind. In the section on the KF700, in the configurator, there is option 212 listed which reads 揟ilting bracket for power feeder (with standard models this is not possible with a 1300mm outrigger table).� So I did have it wrong, the exception (back then?) applied to the 1300mm outrigger table not the 1500, and I apologize for stirring up this controversy. But I am comforted that I haven抰 lost my mind completely, there was some kind of mechanical interference, I just remembered wrong. I'm not loosing my mind after all. You抎 tell me if I were - right? Now that we抮e in the 損ost truth� era here in the USA, everything is suspect. What a bewildering time - I was expecting Alzheimer's to set in and instead I get 損ost truth era." How抯 Brexit working out for ya on your side of the pond? :-)
As for the Benz reference, you抮e completely right, and I抣l quote Colonel Pickering speaking to Henry Higgins: 揅ome sir, perhaps you抳e picked a bad example.� I抦 no longer a Benz fan either - most expensive maintenance headache ever. Perhaps Bentley would have been a fairer comparison. :-)
David Best
PS: When I had a KF700 with tilt-away bracket, I found it really helped the rotational effort to put the feeder in a position where the center of gravity was most neutral. This is the position I found worked best - you抳e probably already discovered this, but for those who haven抰:
I see now that Felder offers a gas strut assisted feeder bracket. They ripped that design off a FOG member. Shame !
[cid:907A3C1A-C2C6-44D1-BD23-55AE8C463967]
On Dec 3, 2016, at 11:58 PM, JULIE DENNING julie.denning1@...<mailto:julie.denning1@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...<mailto:felder-woodworking@...>> wrote:
David,
A couple of points.
I have a 2008 KF700SP with 1500 outrigger, F38 power feeder and tilt away bracket. Due to space constraints I only mount the outrigger when I need it, but I haven't been aware of any conflict with the power feeder. I've checked the 2008 catalogue and haven't spotted any warning to that effect. I do, however, struggle with the power feeder tilt away for other reasons. For me, it's heavy. (I must investigate adding an assistance strut.) Also, again due to other space constraints around the machine, I have to find a sweet spot for positioning the power feeder before lowering it.
You say " You抮e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz". As the owner of products from each of these manufacturers, I must protest this comparison on behalf of Felder! I don't mind paying a quality price for a quality product, but object when I think I'm only getting the wrong half of that deal. Since buying my KF700 I've made two other, for me, pricey purchases from Felder, but I doubt I'll ever buy another Mercedes.
Julie
________________________________
From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@...<mailto:david@...> [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...<mailto:felder-woodworking@...>>
To: felder-woodworking@...<mailto:felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2016, 4:36
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. If you have the power for electronic scoring (it抯 a separate motor), and don抰 mind spending the additional for it, then it抯 clearly a better choice - even if you don抰 use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably.
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can抰 or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. If you don抰 get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I抣l text Hansj鰎g Felder directly. You抮e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it抯 value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you抮e working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you抮e trying to miter. If you抮e planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36�) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn抰 index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it抯 digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I抦 going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I抣l drop on the EGL.
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use.
One other word of caution. If you plan to use the shaper much, you抣l want a power feeder. Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. This may have changed - I don抰 know, but you should know, and if it抯 true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best
On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:18 PM, garrisonstuber@...<mailto:garrisonstuber@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...<mailto:felder-woodworking@...>> wrote:
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger. I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best. David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle. I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion. Does anyone who has one like theirs? Why? Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it. Is this still the case? Is it different on the electric scoring unit? I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
A note about the short crosscut fence and use on the 1300 outrigger table: 听the short fence is not long enough to contact the reference stop on the outrigger table. 听I had planned on using the short fence on the 1300 outrigger on my Profile 45 to save space but it does not work.
Joe in New Orleans听
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 3, 2016, at 11:02 PM, James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
听
Yes, check David Best's album听
On the heavy crosscut fence, you could have 3 DRO. The standard one with the stop on the left, then the one with stop on the right (), also one on end of the telescoping fence.听
You can also have DRO on the table-saw style rip fence,听
Yes, I removed the telescoping portion of the crosscut fence on the outrigger table. I did not order the short crosscut fence, I wish I had bought it, since moving the heavy crosscut fence to front/rear position is not easy.
I strongly recommend DRO. At least, get one on the crosscut fence. You get repeatability and make cut so much quicker and accurate. And I believe it is lot more expensive to get DRO after the purchase. This was the reason David Best sold his K975 slider and bought Kappa 400.
James
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Hi Julie, nice to read your note, and thanks for the clarification. 听 So I went to my stash of catalogs from Felder (the most recent one I have is 2012) - beginning to wonder if I鈥檇 lost my mind. 听 In the section on the KF700, in the configurator, there is option 212 listed which reads 鈥淭ilting bracket for power feeder (with standard models this is not possible with a 1300mm outrigger table).鈥� 听 听So I did have it wrong, the exception (back then?) applied to the 1300mm outrigger table not the 1500, and I apologize for stirring up this controversy. 听 But I am comforted that I haven鈥檛 lost my mind completely, there was some kind of mechanical interference, I just remembered wrong. 听 听I'm not loosing my mind after all. 听 You鈥檇 tell me if I were - right? 听 Now that we鈥檙e in the 鈥減ost truth鈥� era here in the USA, everything is suspect. 听 What a bewildering time - I was expecting Alzheimer's to set in and instead I get 鈥減ost truth era." 听 How鈥檚 Brexit working out for ya on your side of the pond? 听:-)
As for the Benz reference, you鈥檙e completely right, and I鈥檒l quote Colonel Pickering speaking to Henry Higgins: 听鈥淐ome sir, perhaps you鈥檝e picked a bad example.鈥� 听 I鈥檓 no longer a Benz fan either - most expensive maintenance headache ever. 听 Perhaps Bentley would have been a fairer comparison. 听:-)
David Best
PS: 听 When I had a KF700 with tilt-away bracket, I found it really helped the rotational effort to put the feeder in a position where the center of gravity was most neutral. 听 This is the position I found worked best - you鈥檝e probably already discovered this, but for those who haven鈥檛:听
I see now that Felder offers a gas strut assisted feeder bracket. 听 They ripped that design off a FOG member. 听 Shame !
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
David,
A couple of points.
I have a 2008 KF700SP with 1500 outrigger, F38 power feeder and tilt away bracket.听 Due to space constraints I only mount the outrigger when I need it, but I haven't been aware of any conflict with the power feeder.听 I've checked the 2008 catalogue and haven't spotted any warning to that effect.听 I do, however, struggle with the power feeder tilt away for other reasons.听 For me, it's heavy.听 (I must investigate adding an assistance strut.)听 Also, again due to other space constraints around the machine, I have to find a sweet spot for positioning the power feeder before lowering it.
You say " You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz".听 As the owner of products from each of these manufacturers, I must protest this comparison on behalf of Felder!听 I don't mind paying a quality price for a quality product, but object when I think I'm only getting the wrong half of that deal.听 Since buying my KF700 I've made two other, for me, pricey purchases from Felder, but I doubt I'll ever buy another Mercedes.
Julie
听Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. 听 I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. 听 If you have the power for electronic scoring (it鈥檚 a separate motor), and don鈥檛 mind spending the additional for it, then it鈥檚 clearly a better choice - even if you don鈥檛 use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. 听听
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can鈥檛 or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. 听 Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. 听If you don鈥檛 get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I鈥檒l text Hansj枚rg Felder directly. 听 You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. 听 PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it鈥檚 value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. 听 If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you鈥檙e working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you鈥檙e trying to miter. 听 听If you鈥檙e planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36鈥�) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. 听 In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn鈥檛 index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. 听 I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. 听 My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it鈥檚 digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. 听 I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I鈥檓 going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I鈥檒l drop on the EGL. 听
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. 听听
One other word of caution. 听 If you plan to use the shaper much, you鈥檒l want a power feeder. 听 Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. 听 You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. 听 However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. 听 This may have changed - I don鈥檛 know, but you should know, and if it鈥檚 true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best 听听
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.听 I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.听 David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.听 I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.听 Does anyone who has one like theirs?听听 Why?听 Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.听 Is this still the case?听 Is it different on the electric scoring unit?听 I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
David,
A couple of points.
I have a 2008 KF700SP with 1500 outrigger, F38 power feeder and tilt away bracket.听 Due to space constraints I only mount the outrigger when I need it, but I haven't been aware of any conflict with the power feeder.听 I've checked the 2008 catalogue and haven't spotted any warning to that effect.听 I do, however, struggle with the power feeder tilt away for other reasons.听 For me, it's heavy.听 (I must investigate adding an assistance strut.)听 Also, again due to other space constraints around the machine, I have to find a sweet spot for positioning the power feeder before lowering it.
You say " You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz".听 As the owner of products from each of these manufacturers, I must protest this comparison on behalf of Felder!听 I don't mind paying a quality price for a quality product, but object when I think I'm only getting the wrong half of that deal.听 Since buying my KF700 I've made two other, for me, pricey purchases from Felder, but I doubt I'll ever buy another Mercedes.
Julie
From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]"
To: felder-woodworking@...
Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2016, 4:36
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
听
Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. 听 I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. 听 If you have the power for electronic scoring (it鈥檚 a separate motor), and don鈥檛 mind spending the additional for it, then it鈥檚 clearly a better choice - even if you don鈥檛 use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. 听听
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can鈥檛 or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. 听 Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. 听If you don鈥檛 get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I鈥檒l text Hansj枚rg Felder directly. 听 You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. 听 PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it鈥檚 value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. 听 If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you鈥檙e working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you鈥檙e trying to miter. 听 听If you鈥檙e planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36鈥�) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. 听 In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn鈥檛 index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. 听 I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. 听 My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it鈥檚 digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. 听 I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I鈥檓 going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I鈥檒l drop on the EGL. 听
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. 听听
One other word of caution. 听 If you plan to use the shaper much, you鈥檒l want a power feeder. 听 Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. 听 You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. 听 However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. 听 This may have changed - I don鈥檛 know, but you should know, and if it鈥檚 true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best 听听
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.听 I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.听 David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.听 I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.听 Does anyone who has one like theirs?听听 Why?听 Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.听 Is this still the case?听 Is it different on the electric scoring unit?听 I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
I believe that鈥檚 a bug in the web site, although it could be peculiar to the KF700. 听 You can get the Precision Indexing System with digital fence on the Kappa 400 - I have it. 听 The pin-shot miter system (170) is not accurate and just makes it harder to position the fence. 听 Don鈥檛 go there.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Interesting.听 The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170 Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence听O 173 Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger听O 171 Digital flip stop 74鈥� (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126鈥� (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500听O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 ()
or the 171 ()
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Interesting.听 The Felder configurator won't let you pick the digital cross cut option (#171) if you pick the precision miter option with length compensation (#173):
170
Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence O
173
Precision mitre guide with cutting length compensation for 1300/1500 outrigger O
171
Digital flip stop 74鈥� (1900 mm), 1 digital flip stop, extendable to 126鈥� (3200 mm) for outrigger 1500 O
It looks like you can still get the "pin" option though (#170).
James, which one do you have?
The 173 (http://maschinen.felder-gruppe.at/uploads/machinedetails/ee86e9abb0fab0c09c26960b5a54fed4258785f8.jpg)
or the 171 (http://maschinen.felder-gruppe.at/uploads/machinedetails/dd42bba348c336a77533ff40f390f5e359604be3.jpg)
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Glen,
The outrigger table options are indeed confusing. 听 Let me try to clarify:
The 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables are basically the same except 1300 is 200mm less wide and only works on sliding tables 8-feet long or shorter. 听 Sliding tables longer than 98-inches require the 1500 outrigger (the support arm under the table that supports it throughout the travel of the sliding table must extend further, and is thus longer, and so is the table above it to match). 听 I don鈥檛 believe Felder offers the 1300 outrigger table on the Kappa 400 (they do on the 700-series) if you get one of the shorter sliding tables.
There is a third outrigger table called the 鈥淴-Roll鈥� outrigger( option 161) - talk about creating confusion with that name !!! 听 听Anyway, the X-Roll outrigger has a roller-bearing actuated small table that supports the crosscut fence on the outrigger table, and makes it much easer to reposition the fence for angled cuts. 听 The digital crosscut fence is about twice as heavy as the analog version, and if you load it up with a digital telescoping extension, it ends up about 50 pounds total. 听 Trying to man-handle that fence into the precision miter guide indexing system is a real chore and you can easily damage that index system if you鈥檙e not careful. 听 So they came up with the X-Roll outrigger table to address this, which has it鈥檚 own digital readout of the fence angle built in. 听 You can also provision that X-Roll table with a radio transmitter system so it talks to the digital crosscut stops and they cooperate in computing the true position of the stop from the blade when the fence is not at 90-degrees. 听 听The X-Roll outrigger unit even has a hand crank for precise positioning of the angle. 听 I don鈥檛 have the X-Roll outrigger table (wish I did) but David Luckensmeyer does. 听 Look at the photo in the following link and you鈥檒l see the X-Roll outrigger table element directly under the crosscut stop - it moves just like the sliding table, but of course is miniature in comparison - you鈥檒l also see the digital readout for the angle of the crosscut fence in the box between the crosscut stop and the sliding table:听
听
As for the crosscut fences, what I posted just prior to this for Michael applies to the Kappa 400, although there are additional option numbers relating to the radio compensation system on the X-Roll outrigger. 听Any of the crosscut fences can be put on any of the outrigger tables, although typically the X-Roll outrigger table
As for digital crosscut stops, I鈥檒l add the following. 听 The standard digital crosscut stop has the flipper on the left - which means the closest it will go to the blade is just over 8 inches. 听 If you want a digital crosscut stop that gets closer to the saw blade, you have to ADD (not substitute) an additional crosscut stop which is Felder part number 604-118. 听 That stop has the flipper on the right and will position down to about 3-inches from the blade. 听The digital crosscut stop on the telescoping extension is dedicated to the extension and can not be positioned below 74-inches. 听 On the non-digital crosscut fences, the analog crosscut stops can be used on the main part of the fence, or positioned on the telescoping extension - this is not the case with the digital stops. 听 More info on the digital stops is here - including a document on how to calibrate them: 听听
Sing out if you have more questions.
David Best
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Show quoted text
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.听 Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen 听听
-----Original Message----- From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' 听david@...听[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit 听Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. 听 I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. 听 If you have the power for electronic scoring (it鈥檚 a separate motor), and don鈥檛 mind spending the additional for it, then it鈥檚 clearly a better choice - even if you don鈥檛 use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. 听听
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can鈥檛 or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. 听 Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. 听If you don鈥檛 get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I鈥檒l text Hansj枚rg Felder directly. 听 You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. 听 PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it鈥檚 value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. 听 If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you鈥檙e working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you鈥檙e trying to miter. 听 听If you鈥檙e planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36鈥�) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. 听 In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn鈥檛 index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. 听 I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. 听 My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it鈥檚 digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. 听 I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I鈥檓 going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I鈥檒l drop on the EGL. 听
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. 听听
One other word of caution. 听 If you plan to use the shaper much, you鈥檒l want a power feeder. 听 Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. 听 You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. 听 However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. 听 This may have changed - I don鈥檛 know, but you should know, and if it鈥檚 true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best 听听
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.听 I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.听 David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.听 I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.听 Does anyone who has one like theirs?听听 Why?听 Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.听 Is this still the case?听 Is it different on the electric scoring unit?听 I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Glen,
The outrigger table options are indeed confusing. 听 Let me try to clarify:
The 1300 and 1500 outrigger tables are basically the same except 1300 is 200mm less wide and only works on sliding tables 8-feet long or shorter. 听 Sliding tables longer than 98-inches require the 1500 outrigger (the support arm under the table that supports it throughout the travel of the sliding table must extend further, and is thus longer, and so is the table above it to match). 听 I don鈥檛 believe Felder offers the 1300 outrigger table on the Kappa 400 (they do on the 700-series) if you get one of the shorter sliding tables.
There is a third outrigger table called the 鈥淴-Roll鈥� outrigger( option 161) - talk about creating confusion with that name !!! 听 听Anyway, the X-Roll outrigger has a roller-bearing actuated small table that supports the crosscut fence on the outrigger table, and makes it much easer to reposition the fence for angled cuts. 听 The digital crosscut fence is about twice as heavy as the analog version, and if you load it up with a digital telescoping extension, it ends up about 50 pounds total. 听 Trying to man-handle that fence into the precision miter guide indexing system is a real chore and you can easily damage that index system if you鈥檙e not careful. 听 So they came up with the X-Roll outrigger table to address this, which has it鈥檚 own digital readout of the fence angle built in. 听 You can also provision that X-Roll table with a radio transmitter system so it talks to the digital crosscut stops and they cooperate in computing the true position of the stop from the blade when the fence is not at 90-degrees. 听 听The X-Roll outrigger unit even has a hand crank for precise positioning of the angle. 听 I don鈥檛 have the X-Roll outrigger table (wish I did) but David Luckensmeyer does. 听 Look at the photo in the following link and you鈥檒l see the X-Roll outrigger table element directly under the crosscut stop - it moves just like the sliding table, but of course is miniature in comparison - you鈥檒l also see the digital readout for the angle of the crosscut fence in the box between the crosscut stop and the sliding table:听
听
As for the crosscut fences, what I posted just prior to this for Michael applies to the Kappa 400, although there are additional option numbers relating to the radio compensation system on the X-Roll outrigger. 听Any of the crosscut fences can be put on any of the outrigger tables, although typically the X-Roll outrigger table
As for digital crosscut stops, I鈥檒l add the following. 听 The standard digital crosscut stop has the flipper on the left - which means the closest it will go to the blade is just over 8 inches. 听 If you want a digital crosscut stop that gets closer to the saw blade, you have to ADD (not substitute) an additional crosscut stop which is Felder part number 604-118. 听 That stop has the flipper on the right and will position down to about 3-inches from the blade. 听The digital crosscut stop on the telescoping extension is dedicated to the extension and can not be positioned below 74-inches. 听 On the non-digital crosscut fences, the analog crosscut stops can be used on the main part of the fence, or positioned on the telescoping extension - this is not the case with the digital stops. 听 More info on the digital stops is here - including a document on how to calibrate them: 听听
Sing out if you have more questions.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.听 Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen 听听
-----Original Message----- From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' 听david@...听[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit 听Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. 听 I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. 听 If you have the power for electronic scoring (it鈥檚 a separate motor), and don鈥檛 mind spending the additional for it, then it鈥檚 clearly a better choice - even if you don鈥檛 use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. 听听
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can鈥檛 or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. 听 Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. 听If you don鈥檛 get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I鈥檒l text Hansj枚rg Felder directly. 听 You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. 听 PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it鈥檚 value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. 听 If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you鈥檙e working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you鈥檙e trying to miter. 听 听If you鈥檙e planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36鈥�) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. 听 In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn鈥檛 index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. 听 I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. 听 My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it鈥檚 digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. 听 I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I鈥檓 going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I鈥檒l drop on the EGL. 听
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. 听听
One other word of caution. 听 If you plan to use the shaper much, you鈥檒l want a power feeder. 听 Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. 听 You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. 听 However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. 听 This may have changed - I don鈥檛 know, but you should know, and if it鈥檚 true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best 听听
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.听 I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.听 David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.听 I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.听 Does anyone who has one like theirs?听听 Why?听 Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.听 Is this still the case?听 Is it different on the electric scoring unit?听 I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Thanks James, and thank you for the numbers on the scoring motor as well.听 I'm still not sure how much cross cutting I'm going to do on this machine, other than panels.听 I get spot on repeatable cross cuts with my collection well tuned vintage DeWalt radial saws.听 The only problem is that slicing up a 4x8 sheet on them sucks.听 With the right blade (negative hook) and adjustments you can safely rip, but it's awkward and the dust collection is abysmal.听 My primary focus for this machine will be sheet goods, ripping (though I do a lot of that on my bandsaw), and shaping. That said, the DROs may still be very useful for setting up for sheet goods.
I assume that the DRO will happily switch between standard and metric?听 I plan on going with a metric machine.听 (I have largely switched to metric in my woodworking.)
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Thank you.听 I've seen the configurator, but without the background details, it's not terribly useful.听 So many of the items have similar labels, if you're not already a felder expert, you get to feeling a little lost.听 Your explanations are very helpful.
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
My 2013 KF700S (painted green so not the current model) has the 1500 outrigger and it does not interfere with the power feeder when the tilt table is in the down position. I am not a strong man and an option I enjoy (3rd party option) is the pressurized cylinder to help with lifting the power feeder from the down position to above the table for use.
From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 9:23 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Damn your fast
Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Michael,
Let me refer you to the configurator for the KF700:
Click on 鈥淪pecifications/Configurator鈥� and you鈥檒l see all the available options for the machine.
The 鈥渁nalog鈥� crosscut fences (where you set the crosscut stop by aligning to a tape measure marking by sight) are options 166 and 169. This is how you set the stop on either of these fences:
Option 166 extends 74 inches to the left of the saw blade, and has a telescoping extension that will carry the crosscut stop to 102 inches. Option 169 extends 81-inches to the left of the saw blade and has a telescoping extension that will carry the crosscut stop to 126-inches. Option 169 has a different outrigger table arrangement with it鈥檚 own X-Roll mechanism for angling the fence. The telescoping extension on both 166 and 169 can be removed to save weigh or shorten the overall length the fence stick-out by about 7 inches when not in use.
Option #171 provisions the machine with a different and entirely different crosscut fence that has a digital cross stop with LED readout position indication that can be used out to 74鈥� length. That digital stop looks like this:
Beyond the 74" length, the telescoping extension on the #171 fence is not digital - you sight against a ruler to set the distance just like the 鈥渁nalog鈥� fence discussed above. If you want a second digital crosscut stop dedicated to the telescoping extension component, that鈥檚 option #172 which will give you digital readout and positioning beyond 74-inches - it also makes the fence really heavy.
You can see more about the digital crosscut fence/stops here - although as you will see, this is a custom configuration with 3-stops:
The KF700S can be optioned with an LED digital readout on the rip fence position. On the configurator, that is option #85 or #86 depending on the width rip capacity of the machine. That DRO looks like this:
Hope this helps.
Also, looking at the configurator again, I do not see a cautionary comment about the tilt-away bracket conflicting with the 1500 outrigger now. And looking at the photos, it appears to me that the tilt-away bracket attachment to the cast iron top as been redesigned - probably to eliminate the conflict - but you should double check nonetheless.
David Best
On Dec 3, 2016, at 8:34 PM, garrisonstuber@... <mailto:garrisonstuber@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote:
I didn't realize you could get a DRO on the fence. Do you mean a DRO on the stops on the crosscut fence, or a DRO on the table-saw style rip fence, or a DRO on Felder's slider rip fence? (There are a lot of potential fences here).
Also, when you say you removed the telescoping fence, do you mean you removed the telescoping portion, or that you switched the crosscut fence for the outrigger table with one of the smaller crosscut fences?
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
听
Michael,
Let me refer you to the configurator for the KF700: 听
Click on 鈥淪pecifications/Configurator鈥� and you鈥檒l see all the available options for the machine.
The 鈥渁nalog鈥� crosscut fences (where you set the crosscut stop by aligning to a tape measure marking by sight) are options 166 and 169. 听 This is how you set the stop on either of these fences: 听
Option 166 extends 74 inches to the left of the saw blade, and has a telescoping extension that will carry the crosscut stop to 102 inches. 听 听Option 169 extends 81-inches to the left of the saw blade and has a telescoping extension that will carry the crosscut stop to 126-inches. 听 Option 169 has a different outrigger table arrangement with it鈥檚 own X-Roll mechanism for angling the fence. 听 The telescoping extension on both 166 and 169 can be removed to save weigh or shorten the overall length the fence stick-out by about 7 inches when not in use.
Option #171 provisions the machine with a different and entirely different crosscut fence that has a digital cross stop with LED readout position indication that can be used out to 74鈥� length. 听That digital stop looks like this:
Beyond the 74" length, the telescoping extension on the #171 fence is not digital - you sight against a ruler to set the distance just like the 鈥渁nalog鈥� fence discussed above. 听 If you want a second digital crosscut stop dedicated to the telescoping extension component, that鈥檚 option #172 which will give you digital readout and positioning beyond 74-inches - it also makes the fence really heavy.
You can see more about the digital crosscut fence/stops here - although as you will see, this is a custom configuration with 3-stops:
The KF700S can be optioned with an LED digital readout on the rip fence position. 听 On the configurator, that is option #85 or #86 depending on the width rip capacity of the machine. 听 That DRO looks like this:
Hope this helps.
Also, looking at the configurator again, I do not see a cautionary comment about the tilt-away bracket conflicting with the 1500 outrigger now. 听 And looking at the photos, it appears to me that the tilt-away bracket attachment to the cast iron top as been redesigned - probably to eliminate the conflict - but you should double check nonetheless.
David Best
I didn't realize you could get a DRO on the fence.听 Do you mean a DRO on the stops on the crosscut fence, or a DRO on the table-saw style rip fence, or a DRO on Felder's slider rip fence?听 (There are a lot of potential fences here).
Also, when you say you removed the telescoping fence, do you mean you removed the telescoping portion, or that you switched the crosscut fence for the outrigger table with one of the smaller crosscut fences?
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Hi David
So I haven't said anything lately, I have just been read your and everyone else s posts and I have gathered a wealth of information.
I have looked at some of the other stuff you have mentioned and I think I am set on the kappa 400 x. I have spent many hours looking at this saw and I have to say i understand it pretty well except for the options on the outrigger table. This messages helps but I still cant quite figure it out.听 Looking at the pictures of your saw i think we have the same set up but im not exactly sure. Looking at the book there seems to be three variations of the outrigger. I wish you were my Felder Rep it would make it much easier for me to figure this all out.
Glen 听
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
听
Michael,
Let me clarify a few things. 听 I assume you are considering mechanical scoring because of your off-the-grid power consumption limits. 听 If you have the power for electronic scoring (it鈥檚 a separate motor), and don鈥檛 mind spending the additional for it, then it鈥檚 clearly a better choice - even if you don鈥檛 use scoring a lot, it will enhance the resale value appreciably. 听听
There is absolutely no excuse that your Felder sales rep can鈥檛 or won't research the answer to your question about the KF700 mechanical scoring. 听 Call Fergus Cook at the Felder Sacramento office and ask him to clarify the mechanical scoring option operation. 听If you don鈥檛 get satisfaction from Fergus, let me know and I鈥檒l text Hansj枚rg Felder directly. 听 You鈥檙e about to drop coin equivalent to a new Benz - you should be able to get answers and your sales rep should be willing to do the homework to satisfy your questions before you buy. 听 PERIOD.
On the subject of Precision Miter Guide, let me clarify - as it鈥檚 value to you has everything to do with what kind of work you expect to do. 听 If you plan on doing a lot of crosscut miters for things like mitered face frames, picture frames, mitered window/door frames, mitered raised panel doors, the precision miter guide option might be very valuable to you - especially if you鈥檙e working from dimensioned drawings where you know the precise length of the part you鈥檙e trying to miter. 听 听If you鈥檙e planning to do a lot of smaller (under ~36鈥�) picture frames or mitered raised panel doors or other similar joinery, you might actually be better off with the DGL or EGL. 听 In my own workflow, I have observed that when I want to angle the crosscut fence, 95 percent of the time I either want 45-degrees or some other angle which the precision miter guide doesn鈥檛 index, and I find the peg that extends below the crosscut fence a total pain in the ass to index to the slots on the precision miter guide, so I removed the peg. 听 I can consistently position the crosscut fence at 45-degrees using the markings on the the top of the crossbar. 听 My crosscut fence is twice the weight of what yours will be (because it鈥檚 digital), and that has an influence on my frustration level with the indexing system as well. 听 I also have the benefit of owning an EGL, so if I鈥檓 going to be doing a lot of mitering work, cutting to known lengths, I鈥檒l drop on the EGL. 听
I too would be interested to hear from other K/KF700 owners with precision miter guide just how often they use/need it and if they find it cumbersome to use. 听听
One other word of caution. 听 If you plan to use the shaper much, you鈥檒l want a power feeder. 听 Such power feeder would mount on the tilt-away bracket that attaches to the back edge of the cast iron top of the machine. 听 You can order the bracket later when you get the feeder. 听 However, as recently as 3 years ago, the tilt away bracket could not be used in conjunction with the 1500 outrigger because the telescoping support arm for the outrigger table would bind on the inverted power feeder. 听 This may have changed - I don鈥檛 know, but you should know, and if it鈥檚 true, and you expect to use a power feeder, you would be better off with the 1300 outrigger.
David Best
听听
So I'm working on finalizing my order for a KF700 S Pro with a 10 foot slider and the 1500mm outrigger.听 I've gotten some excellent advice from David Best.听 David noted that in his experience the precision miter attachment is fussy to use and not worth the hassle.听 I'm curious whether anyone else has an opinion.听 Does anyone who has one like theirs?听听 Why?听 Why not?
David also noted that on his KF700 (back in the day before he upgraded) that the mechanical scoring system required the main blade to be fully elevated to use it.听 Is this still the case?听 Is it different on the electric scoring unit?听 I've asked my the rep at Felder, but she doesn't seem to really know the equipment.
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
Newman Lake, WA
|
Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
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On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:59 PM, garrisonstuber@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Thanks for the clarifications David.听 You are correct I was planning on the mechanical scoring unit because I didn't want yet another motor to run on my limited power budget.听 Does anybody know what the HP or KW rating on the scoring motor is?
I really appreciate the warning about the 1300 versus the 1500 outrigger.听 I'll give them a call next week.听 Liz has been helpful, but doesn't seem to be particularly knowledgeable.听 I stopped by Felder's Scramento facility a few weeks back to look at the equipment.听 Unfortunately, they are in the process of moving so nothing was powered.听 The one tech that was around had just been hired six weeks ago.听 I briefly met Fergus.听 He was knowledgeable and responsive, but clearly busy with other things.
I have an existing smaller powerfeeder for my 3/4" spindle shaper.听 I will definitely be adding a powerfeeder to the KF 700.听 The only question is whether I mount my existing powerfeeder on it, or purchase a newer/bigger one sometime in 2017.
My experience is that the powerfeeder makes all the difference in terms of the safety and enjoyment when using a shaper, especially if you have a lot of material to run.听 I'm guessing I'm going to want a bigger powerfeeder to go with the bigger shaper.
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Re: Thoughts on the precision miter option and scoring unit
Michael,
Let me refer you to the configurator for the KF700: 听
Click on 鈥淪pecifications/Configurator鈥� and you鈥檒l see all the available options for the machine.
The 鈥渁nalog鈥� crosscut fences (where you set the crosscut stop by aligning to a tape measure marking by sight) are options 166 and 169. 听 This is how you set the stop on either of these fences: 听
Option 166 extends 74 inches to the left of the saw blade, and has a telescoping extension that will carry the crosscut stop to 102 inches. 听 听Option 169 extends 81-inches to the left of the saw blade and has a telescoping extension that will carry the crosscut stop to 126-inches. 听 Option 169 has a different outrigger table arrangement with it鈥檚 own X-Roll mechanism for angling the fence. 听 The telescoping extension on both 166 and 169 can be removed to save weigh or shorten the overall length the fence stick-out by about 7 inches when not in use.
Option #171 provisions the machine with a different and entirely different crosscut fence that has a digital cross stop with LED readout position indication that can be used out to 74鈥� length. 听That digital stop looks like this:
Beyond the 74" length, the telescoping extension on the #171 fence is not digital - you sight against a ruler to set the distance just like the 鈥渁nalog鈥� fence discussed above. 听 If you want a second digital crosscut stop dedicated to the telescoping extension component, that鈥檚 option #172 which will give you digital readout and positioning beyond 74-inches - it also makes the fence really heavy.
You can see more about the digital crosscut fence/stops here - although as you will see, this is a custom configuration with 3-stops:
The KF700S can be optioned with an LED digital readout on the rip fence position. 听 On the configurator, that is option #85 or #86 depending on the width rip capacity of the machine. 听 That DRO looks like this:
Hope this helps.
Also, looking at the configurator again, I do not see a cautionary comment about the tilt-away bracket conflicting with the 1500 outrigger now. 听 And looking at the photos, it appears to me that the tilt-away bracket attachment to the cast iron top as been redesigned - probably to eliminate the conflict - but you should double check nonetheless.
David Best
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I didn't realize you could get a DRO on the fence.听 Do you mean a DRO on the stops on the crosscut fence, or a DRO on the table-saw style rip fence, or a DRO on Felder's slider rip fence?听 (There are a lot of potential fences here).
Also, when you say you removed the telescoping fence, do you mean you removed the telescoping portion, or that you switched the crosscut fence for the outrigger table with one of the smaller crosscut fences?
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imran
David P. Best