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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Cliff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGreat job. I struggled with that whole? remote start thing for my RL.? Took
a long look at the Penn State device and opened up my RL?
electrical panel and decided that? I needed a less technical
solution.? The electrics in the RL intimidated me, I didn't want
to void the warranty, and I sort of didn't believe that the
Engineers who built that gizmo had the Felder RL in mind.? Felder sells these little current sensors that will turn the RL
on when the machine is turned on but it only works with 220VAC.?
But I was unhappy with that just because I didn't want the inrush
of current for two big motors? occurring at the same time.?? It's
a residential system, not commercial I placed all my? blast gates? about shoulder height so I could
easily access them while standing.? Then I designed a two solenoid
system with little on off buttons at each machine station that all
runs on 12VDC and connected to the solenoids VIA thermostat cable?
(4 conductor 18 AWG).? So? now I push a button to activate a
solenoid and push another button to activate the other solenoid
and the machine operates like it was being manually activated. ? On 12/3/2016 9:31 AM,
dschmid4@... [felder-woodworking] wrote:
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Re: New C3-41 owner
Cliff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHammer's fence sucks.? Floppy, deflects like crazy,? won't stand
up to wear, seems like it was? designed by an adolescent on bring
your kid to work day. It's? sad really because they put a lot of
work into the main steel component only? to end up with cheesy
junk. On 12/3/2016 2:06 PM,
danjones88@... [felder-woodworking] wrote:
Jay, |
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Thanks Brian. ?No current intent or plans to sell these, but never say never.
With this approach, scaling to multiple ports and machines would be easy. ?While mine is set up for one input channel (saw) and 1 output channel (blast gate), one could have multiple clip-on current sensors detecting "on/off" for any number of machines (but each would need a wire coming into the controller. ?Other than the sensor, no additional electronic components needed on the input side. ?On the output side, control to multiple blast gates would be just as easy - again, each gate with it's own wire to the unit. Would need one additional relay per blast gate, but these are only about $2 each. You'd just need to get somewhat familiar with the Arduino software code to configure it to behave the way you want (i.e. 2 blast gates on one machine, but only 1 on another, etc). ?But once you nailed this, making changes would be simple. Dan |
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
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Re: New C3-41 owner
Cliff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI made a version of this? on my own design using cams and bearings to lock the fence but this one is quite nice?? The Wood Whisperererer guy has a review Here:
On 12/3/2016 11:19 AM,
danjones88@... [felder-woodworking] wrote:
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Re: Blades for K700S
I'm using Tenryu blades..? Really nice blades. ? On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 2:40 AM, jontathan samways jonathansamways@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOr is Dan selling them? Nice job and way above my pay grade when it comes to electronics. My only question is the way I see it this only works on one machine and a specific function? I would like a unit that I could wire the shop into that say I turn on the saw, it opens port A and B (Suction on the above table shroud and the saw itself). Then if I run the shaper it¡¯s a different motor and different blast gates.?There are also two operations and two sets of blast gates depending upon if I¡¯m jointing or planing¡. Any way of having multiple gates and multiple functions? Even if it means I have hard wired multiple torroid sensors and blast gates?? I had to build a remote heavy duty relay earlier this year for my dust collector, the X10 stuff I was using, the 30 amp relay went kaput and they don¡¯t make them any more, at least that would work with all my old X10 remotes and such. So I picked up a 220V magnetic relay with a 110V coil and now have a relay that is remote controlled that will work up to 40 amps, or more if I had gotten a larger relay. On Dec 3, 2016, at 12:38 PM, David Davies myfinishingtouch@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGeneral rule of thumb after dry for interior woodwork, 6 to 7 % expect 1/16" of movement per ft Across the grain. Assuming proper construction techniques are used.? mac,,, martin/campshure/co/llc 608-824-0023?fax Designing and building for 47 years On Dec 3, 2016, at 1:01 PM, Cliff rohrabacher@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Dan, ? I echo Joe's comment excellent writeup.? Making one of these is outside my comfort zone but well within my son's zone as he's a EE major at Louisiana Tech.? What would you say the cost is to build one of these? Thanks, Dave On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Bellsouth dohertyj@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868 |
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Re: Hello all,
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Glen,I am a hobbyist woodworker with a good bit of Felder equipment. ?As I have accumulated machines, put them to use, and replaced a couple, some of the ¡°less important¡± things have become more important to me. ?A couple of for instances. ?I have a Profil 45 x motion shaper. ?At the time I purchased it, there was no real discussion about variable speed drive. ?If I had it to go over, that would be on my shopping list. ?I would not buy the Felder power feeders again. ?The Co-Matic with stand is much more user friendly and roughly the same price. ?The Dual 51 with Digi-drive and silent power is a very good machine. ?At the time of purchase, I thought investing in separate machines was just too much money. ?Now I¡¯m not so sure. ?I do know that at my age and stage, I would at least ?purchase the power lift on the joiner table. ?I¡¯ll repeat what has been said many ?times: ?Mac¡¯s pneumatic clamps are a must. ?The sliding table saw is infinitely more usable and safer with the clamps. ?One other suggestion. ?Over the past year I have spent a total of 10 days in Joe Calhoun¡¯s shop in Ouray, Colorado. ?It has been time well spent. ?Joe has a shop full of Martin equipment. These are just a few things I thought about as I was working in the shop this morning. ? Best wishes with the new adventure. Gary ?
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
Cliff
For those who don't wish to learn the skill of hand planing Consider building a Router Bridge.
It is a scalable piece of shop built gear that can take a variety of forms A nice thing about a router bridge is that you can secure the wood from below or the sides with screws, glue, tape, or vacuum. I've considered a slab table in the past and wondered about wood movement over time. |
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Re: See the new dust collector?
Hi guys. This is just to share some broad brush thoughts re. the recent discussions regarding dust filter efficiencies/HEPA/MERV/ and workplace expose limits (WEL)/room air quality. Thought it might be interesting to take a stab at creating some context... (1) In woodworking the ¡®system¡¯ (the combination of the woodworking machine, how it¡¯s set up and the hooding solution) is highly variable.? Depending on the job and how well the hooding and dust collection work in the given situation we can go from highly efficient dust collection (cuts in sheet goods with the top guard down tight on the work), to scenarios where huge amounts of dust are thrown out into the shop air. (e.g. on an open sided 45 deg through saw cut where the top guard can¡¯t catch the dust thrown from the top of the blade) Industrial applications/machines may even utilise largely sealed enclosures with built in extraction. This variety is presumably why worldwide workplace health and safety standards have chosen to leave it largely down to users to sort out their dust collection methods, and instead converged to define acceptable work environments in the form of air cleanliness/workplace exposure limits. (the soon to be tightened further 5mg/m3 average over 8hrs limit) Particle size is a big factor in determining the likely health impact of airborne dust, but in the above scenario you get what the process produces. i.e. we don¡¯t have the ability to preferentially capture say the smaller particles, so defining limits at differing particle sizes will only in some cases be useful. (2) Our focus on filter performance (HEPA/MERV ratings etc) is arguably a result of the fact that we¡¯re a niche application - most of us work in domestic/home workshop/urban contexts.? We for reasons to do with comfort/local laws preventing dust discharge/heating or using stand alone/non-ducted dust collection solutions need to recirculate our airflow. Filtration standards also become important when we introduce machine like mobile dust collectors or hand tools that recycle the air they use to collect dust.? Commercial wood working shops typically exhaust their dust collection airflow outdoors following basic separation of solids in a cyclone.? The non-professional woodworking dust systems market has exploited the fact that this niche is unregulated - by offering for many years the often discussed ¡®dust recirculation systems¡¯. One result of using cheap and ineffective filtration. Even the high end filtration standards we see offered in woodworking today were not really developed with woodworking in mind. (see (3) below) Either way (see (1) above) good filtration of the return air is of itself no guarantee of clean air in traditional machine based woodworking. Given efficient filtration high CFM is advisable too - not just to improve collection, but also to speed up the recycle and cleaning rate of escaped dust from the shop air. Much below 5 mcrons dust it seems is invisible by the way, so relying on sunlight etc. to detect it isn't much help. Dust isn't healthy in any form, but it's somewhere down around 1 micron that our elimination processes become unable to remove it - and it becomes capable of absorbtion through membranes etc. (see chronic immune issues (4) below) ? (3) Filtration standards are a minefield - far beyond my knowledge to give a thorough overview.? They developed independently in multiple countries and industries, and in multiple application scenarios. e.g. capturing potentially radioactive particles in the nuclear industry (the origin of HEPA etc), vacuum cleaners, construction equipment, mobile dust collection units, air conditioning, clean rooms and medical scenarios (capture of bacteria and allergens like pollen) to name a few. The various standards are not necessarily comparable since test and measurement methods (aerosol liquid versus solid particles, particle counts vs counts via optical effects vs¡.) ?and requirements/objectives consequently vary widely. They have nevertheless been adopted (sometimes cherry picked) for use in woodworking applications. ASHRAE has historically been active in setting medically determined filtration standards the US, the German BIA (employer liability insurer¡¯s association) via the ZH1/487 system of standards in Europe. Most developments in the standards field these days come from Germany (probably the major progressive and non military industrial manufacturing nation), get adopted as EU standards, and may then on occasion become the basis of global standards. There¡¯s lots happening - both in the form of more specialised industry/application focused standards, and efforts at harmonising at least similar groups of standards globally. e.g. http://www.filtnews.com/featured-articles/iso-29463-a-global-standard-for-hepa-and-ulpa-filters/ It¡¯s not going to bottom out any time soon it seems, and is a highly specialised topic - but for practical purposes it seems like we need filtration to at least ASHRAE 52.2 MERV 15 ?rating (and no doubt this is a moving target that will tighten with time) if recirculating our air:?http://www2.donaldson.com/torit/en-us/pages/products/ultra-webmediatechnology.aspx More on MERV ratings:?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_efficiency_reporting_value HEPA filters are a bit of an odd one, and probably not as simple a matter as the marketing we see might suggest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA ?They were developed for nuclear applications where trapping and retaining all particles down to a specified size is important. HEPA is often discussed as though it was about straining out particles (e.g. catching ?99.97% of particles down to 0.3 micron size), but that masks many complexities. The HEPA system has in Europe been developed on under Euro norm?EN 1822:2009 Euro HEPA ratings get complicated, in that the efficiency numbers for a given filter (see the link above - there¡¯s a wholes series of HEPA and similar ratings within it) are quoted based on the MPPS or at the particle size that most material gets passed through it at. So checking of the specific filter is needed to establish what the associated MPPS is. HEPA filters don¡¯t actually much strain out small particles at all - they rely on mechanisms like diffusion, attraction and ¡®sticky¡¯ fibres to trap particles which are so small that they don¡¯t really behave like separate objects falling through the air.? The particles are typically much smaller than the gaps between the fibres. It seems likely too that some filters are designed to capture specific compounds, and not just particles in general. For reasons like these it may also be that many HEPA filters for example aren¡¯t necessarily cleanable in any meaningful sense.... (?) Even if you can shake or blow the particles free, the question has to be asked how healthy this task is. Many may well be meant for disposal once dirty.... (4) The underlying medical standards are another minefield.? Most of us have discovered that wood dusts (especially hardwoods and tropicals) can be highly irritating. Some have discovered that they can trigger serious immune reactions, and other health problems caused by our lungs and respiratory tract getting clogged up with dust. There¡¯s also in the background the emerging acceptance that almost all of the degenerative diseases that kill us (heart, stroke, dementia, depression, auto immune stuff like multiple sclerosis, lupus, cancers, blood pressure, gut dysfunctions etc) have their origins in chronic and long term low level immune disturbance (which brings diet, farming, medical and manufacturing practices and the living environment into consideration of the cumulative effect on our immune systems too) The trouble is that we generally only become aware that we have these diseases when we fall seriously ill... Most of the medical data seems to have come from historical industry studies - by definition relating to people that were working potentially many years ago. It¡¯s clear that wood dust causes nasal cancers, but beyond that (e.g. the above) while a definite reality it¡¯s likely a lot less clear. The result is that setting the exposure limits on which the various standards are based has to have involved a fair amount of guesstimation. My own feeling (and health experience) is that as time goes on we will discover that even very moderate exposures (re the chronic immune disturbance issue) matter, and that we¡¯ll see ever tightening standards. Objective scientific proof won¡¯t always be an option though (which leaves a lot of latitude for the nay sayers and self serving vested interests to block measures), so as long we remain an unregulated niche it'll be a case of you pays your money and takes your pick.? Better safe than sorry... ian |
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Re: New C3-41 owner
There is an option from Very Super Cool Tools . They have A Euro style fence, but you'll need a Biesmeyer style rail. They do have instructions on there site on how to diy a rail. Jay
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDan,This is a great write up! ?Thanks for sharing. John Ferandin and I have been talking about a similar system for awhile but using a PLC rather than an Arduino. I really like your pigtail device for testing current. ?I have most of my shop set up with 30 amp three phase plugs and it would be easy to make a pigtail for testing current most of my machines. Joe in New Orleans
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New C3-41 owner
Hello all. ?Just bought a C3-41 (1999) and really like everything but the fence . ?The tightening screw is immovable. ?I would like to fix/replace mine and would appreciate hearing what my options would be. ?I searched and saw the unifence option. ?Are there others? ? Thank you so much. ?I need some help. Dan Thank you? |
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Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
I just posted a file describing a new device which controls a dust collector and blast gate when machine is turned on/off. ? This past spring I purchased a Felder KF700S sliding table saw and shaper combo. ?I also installed Nordfab ducting to the machine which included an automatic blast gate at ceiling height.? My dust collector is an Oneida Smart Pro 5HP unit with an RF remote.? In my small one person shop, the dust collector does not run continuously ¨C only when machines are producing chips. ? I wanted the dust collector to turn on automatically whenever I turned on the saw.? The blast gate must open at the same time.? When I turned the saw off, the collector would run for a programmable number of seconds before turning off and then closing the blast gate.? I wanted the dust collector to turn on via RF as I did not want to run wiring or disable my current RF remotes. Check out the unit in operation at?? Dan Schmidt |
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New file uploaded to felder-woodworking
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the felder-woodworking group. File : /FOG made products/DC & Blast Gate Controller.pdf Uploaded by : dschmid4 <dschmid4@...> Description : Automatic Dust Collector and Blast Gate Controller by Schmidt Woodworks, LLC. You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, dschmid4 <dschmid4@...> |
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Re: Blades for K700S
George, If I could only have one blade it would be a rip blade ! When I make a bespoke kitchen I would generally use the rip blade in the saw in conjunction with a scoring blade for the complete project, ?I use a felder silent power blade. IMHO is perfect for cross cutting, cutting up plywood. ?Im over in Spain where we dont have much choice in plywoods,I genaraly use a marine ply which when cut with universal blades or fine tooth blades burns the ply very quickly. Ive even cut up melamine faced boards using a rip blade blade in conjunction with a scoreing blade with good results. Ive no experiance with Leitz blades so cant coment, I did try talking to Leitz Spain but they there not intrested in my buisness, I run a one man shop generally making bespoke furniture so I guess they could not be bothed with me. I have a few CMT blades, there prices are good over here,and there service, there quality is not as good as Felder IMHO. I Agree with what others have said, you saw should be complete with blades, Would we buy a car without wheels? ? On 2 December 2016 at 21:43, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup
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Jonathan Samways |