?

I have a few Leitz rip blades and love them. ? However, I have standardized on Tenryu blades for use with the scoring saw. ? Specifically, I use the Tenryu?IW-350100AB3 which is 350mm, and too large for a K700, so you’d want the 300mm variant - IW300100AB3. ? I have about 5 identical Tenryu blades and just rotate them out for sharpening as required. ? Standardizing on a single blade type means you don’t have to change the scoring saw blade cut width when you swap out blades. ? I recently bought a new scoring blade from Freud Industrial and returned it because it was garbage. ? I recommend you buy your scoring saw blade from Felder.

Having said all that, I use Leitz exclusively for sharpening all my blades.? They have been the most consistent and convenient and will sharpen any brand of blade.? I had Leitz re-grind two of the mentioned Tenryu blades to flat-top instead of alternating-top-bevel so they cut a flat bottomed kerf for joinery applications. ? In my area (Portland Oregon) Leitz has a roving rep who comes down from Seattle every week and will come to my shop to pick up and deliver blades being sharpened at no extra cost. ? ?Even if I had to ship them UPS to Leitz for sharpening, I would do so to get their service.

David Best

On Dec 2, 2016, at 8:45 AM, George george954679@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello all, I have a new K700S due to arrive next week to my shop. I need to get some blades for it. I got a recommendation to check into Leitz blades from a guy who has a lifetime of experience and who's opinion I trust. Reasonable initial cost, good performance and Leitz 's reputation for being able to consistently re sharpen their blades to a high standard all appeals to me. It seems like a good value. I plan on building kitchen cabinets. (Plywood boxes, hardwood face frames and doors drawer fronts, etc.) I guess I'll need a main blade and a scoring blade to handle hardwood veneered plywoods, probably a combination blade, a crosscut blade?,a rip blade?,and any other suggestions anyone may have. (The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.) The saw has a 7.5 hp,5.5kw,3ph main motor. 4800 rpm. 30 mm arbor with lugs. Blade can be 250mm-315mm in diameter. The electronic scoring unit has 20mm arbor and the manual says the blade can be 100 mm maximum in diameter* (*when used with a 300 mm main blade) I don't understand what difference the size of the main blade makes since they are adjusted independently of each other, but that is what the manual says. I called Leitz. The sales guy was friendly, but I knew I was in trouble when he said he had never heard of Felder. He said he'd only been there 6 months and was still learning. Their websites does show blades for a number of different saw manufacturers and Felder is not one of them. He was not able to locate a small enough scoring blade for the K700S and seemed pretty unsure of himself on everything else. Do any of you guys use Leitz blades on your Felder equipment? If so do you have any specific recommendations? I am open to other blade manufacturers too, not just Leitz. The great re sharpening reputation Leitz has is very appealing though. Thanks everyone, I appreciate this website a great deal. George Gerstner, Ostrander,Ohio

?

Are the slabs reasonably flat? Do you have a parallel guide for your saw? What is the length of your slider??

I would think that if you can rip your pieces to something around 15 1/2" wide your j/p is more then adequate to process the slabs to an equal thickness. You may need a helper but this is something that can be easily done.?

John

JMK Services?

-------- Original message --------
From: "adam@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: 2016-12-02 5:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs

?

This question is about practices, since you guys are all way more experienced than me. I hope it isn't inappropriate to ask here; if it is, my apologies.

With my shop back up and running with the KF700SP and Minimax FS41ES, I'm ready to start on the dining room table I promised the wife. The table top will be 108" x 42".

I purchased three slabs of Willamette Valley (Oregon) black walnut. Two are bookmatched, 8/4 x 168" x 20". The third is also 8/4, about 110" x 16". The pieces are not clear and have significant checks that will need stabilizing. My plan is to use tinted epoxy, though I am open to other options. The edges are also quite rough so I expect to lose at least an inch on each long edge.

My plan, such as it is, is to trim 5' from the longer slabs and mill that wood into the pieces I need for aprons and legs. The top will be glued up from the three 9' slabs, with the unmatched slab in the middle. I'll use dominoes to align the edges.?

I am concerned about my ability to flatten, square, and glue up these pieces due to their dimensions and weight. Moreover, even ripping the wide slabs down to 16" will put them at the limit of my FS16. I have a couple of options for access to a wide belt sander and/or larger jointer/planer. I have also looked at the creation of a router jig for flattening large slabs, though a) I'm not super excited about building one for a one-time use; b) no longer own a large router; and c) don't have a large flat surface for the base of such a jig.

I would be exceptionally grateful for any suggestions (up to and including tough love) for how to best proceed. Thanks in advance — I've learned a ton from this list in the last year.

/afb

This question is about practices, since you guys are all way more experienced than me. I hope it isn't inappropriate to ask here; if it is, my apologies.



With my shop back up and running with the KF700SP and Minimax FS41ES, I'm ready to start on the dining room table I promised the wife. The table top will be 108" x 42".



I purchased three slabs of Willamette Valley (Oregon) black walnut. Two are bookmatched, 8/4 x 168" x 20". The third is also 8/4, about 110" x 16". The pieces are not clear and have significant checks that will need stabilizing. My plan is to use tinted epoxy, though I am open to other options. The edges are also quite rough so I expect to lose at least an inch on each long edge.



My plan, such as it is, is to trim 5' from the longer slabs and mill that wood into the pieces I need for aprons and legs. The top will be glued up from the three 9' slabs, with the unmatched slab in the middle. I'll use dominoes to align the edges.



I am concerned about my ability to flatten, square, and glue up these pieces due to their dimensions and weight. Moreover, even ripping the wide slabs down to 16" will put them at the limit of my FS16. I have a couple of options for access to a wide belt sander and/or larger jointer/planer. I have also looked at the creation of a router jig for flattening large slabs, though a) I'm not super excited about building one for a one-time use; b) no longer own a large router; and c) don't have a large flat surface for the base of such a jig.



I would be exceptionally grateful for any suggestions (up to and including tough love) for how to best proceed. Thanks in advance — I've learned a ton from this list in the last year.



/afb

On Dec 2, 2016, at 6:10 PM, mhkoury mhkoury@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I almost hate to say this but - -?

I would use a Lie Nielsen No. 8 joiner plane to get it flat. Strange, perhaps but for a small shop this is the most efficient tool to use.

Mark

On Dec 2, 2016, at 5:50 PM,?adam@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

This question is about practices, since you guys are all way more experienced than me. I hope it isn't inappropriate to ask here; if it is, my apologies.

With my shop back up and running with the KF700SP and Minimax FS41ES, I'm ready to start on the dining room table I promised the wife. The table top will be 108" x 42".

I purchased three slabs of Willamette Valley (Oregon) black walnut. Two are bookmatched, 8/4 x 168" x 20". The third is also 8/4, about 110" x 16". The pieces are not clear and have significant checks that will need stabilizing. My plan is to use tinted epoxy, though I am open to other options. The edges are also quite rough so I expect to lose at least an inch on each long edge.

My plan, such as it is, is to trim 5' from the longer slabs and mill that wood into the pieces I need for aprons and legs. The top will be glued up from the three 9' slabs, with the unmatched slab in the middle. I'll use dominoes to align the edges.?

I am concerned about my ability to flatten, square, and glue up these pieces due to their dimensions and weight. Moreover, even ripping the wide slabs down to 16" will put them at the limit of my FS16. I have a couple of options for access to a wide belt sander and/or larger jointer/planer. I have also looked at the creation of a router jig for flattening large slabs, though a) I'm not super excited about building one for a one-time use; b) no longer own a large router; and c) don't have a large flat surface for the base of such a jig.

I would be exceptionally grateful for any suggestions (up to and including tough love) for how to best proceed. Thanks in advance — I've learned a ton from this list in the last year.

/afb

On Dec 2, 2016, at 5:50 PM, adam@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

This question is about practices, since you guys are all way more experienced than me. I hope it isn't inappropriate to ask here; if it is, my apologies.

With my shop back up and running with the KF700SP and Minimax FS41ES, I'm ready to start on the dining room table I promised the wife. The table top will be 108" x 42".

I purchased three slabs of Willamette Valley (Oregon) black walnut. Two are bookmatched, 8/4 x 168" x 20". The third is also 8/4, about 110" x 16". The pieces are not clear and have significant checks that will need stabilizing. My plan is to use tinted epoxy, though I am open to other options. The edges are also quite rough so I expect to lose at least an inch on each long edge.

My plan, such as it is, is to trim 5' from the longer slabs and mill that wood into the pieces I need for aprons and legs. The top will be glued up from the three 9' slabs, with the unmatched slab in the middle. I'll use dominoes to align the edges.?

I am concerned about my ability to flatten, square, and glue up these pieces due to their dimensions and weight. Moreover, even ripping the wide slabs down to 16" will put them at the limit of my FS16. I have a couple of options for access to a wide belt sander and/or larger jointer/planer. I have also looked at the creation of a router jig for flattening large slabs, though a) I'm not super excited about building one for a one-time use; b) no longer own a large router; and c) don't have a large flat surface for the base of such a jig.

I would be exceptionally grateful for any suggestions (up to and including tough love) for how to best proceed. Thanks in advance — I've learned a ton from this list in the last year.

/afb

?

I ordered Felder blades.?

What you really need is David Best's "Felder Unofficial Survival Guide book"

Dave

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 10:45 AM, George george954679@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

?

Hello all, I have a new K700S due to arrive next week to my shop. I need to get some blades for it. I got a recommendation to check into Leitz blades from a guy who has a lifetime of experience and who's opinion I trust. Reasonable initial cost, good performance and Leitz 's reputation for being able to consistently re sharpen their blades to a high standard all appeals to me. It seems like a good value. I plan on building kitchen cabinets. (Plywood boxes, hardwood face frames and doors drawer fronts, etc.) I guess I'll need a main blade and a scoring blade to handle hardwood veneered plywoods, probably a combination blade, a crosscut blade?,a rip blade?,and any other suggestions anyone may have. (The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.) The saw has a 7.5 hp,5.5kw,3ph main motor. 4800 rpm. 30 mm arbor with lugs. Blade can be 250mm-315mm in diameter. The electronic scoring unit has 20mm arbor and the manual says the blade can be 100 mm maximum in diameter* (*when used with a 300 mm main blade) I don't understand what difference the size of the main blade makes since they are adjusted independently of each other, but that is what the manual says. I called Leitz. The sales guy was friendly, but I knew I was in trouble when he said he had never heard of Felder. He said he'd only been there 6 months and was still learning. Their websites does show blades for a number of different saw manufacturers and Felder is not one of them. He was not able to locate a small enough scoring blade for the K700S and seemed pretty unsure of himself on everything else. Do any of you guys use Leitz blades on your Felder equipment? If so do you have any specific recommendations? I am open to other blade manufacturers too, not just Leitz. The great re sharpening reputation Leitz has is very appealing though. Thanks everyone, I appreciate this website a great deal. George Gerstner, Ostrander,Ohio

--

Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868

On Dec 2, 2016, at 8:45 AM, George george954679@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

Hello all, I have a new K700S due to arrive next week to my shop. I need to get some blades for it. I got a recommendation to check into Leitz blades from a guy who has a lifetime of experience and who's opinion I trust. Reasonable initial cost, good performance and Leitz 's reputation for being able to consistently re sharpen their blades to a high standard all appeals to me. It seems like a good value. I plan on building kitchen cabinets. (Plywood boxes, hardwood face frames and doors drawer fronts, etc.) I guess I'll need a main blade and a scoring blade to handle hardwood veneered plywoods, probably a combination blade, a crosscut blade?,a rip blade?,and any other suggestions anyone may have. (The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.) The saw has a 7.5 hp,5.5kw,3ph main motor. 4800 rpm. 30 mm arbor with lugs. Blade can be 250mm-315mm in diameter. The electronic scoring unit has 20mm arbor and the manual says the blade can be 100 mm maximum in diameter* (*when used with a 300 mm main blade) I don't understand what difference the size of the main blade makes since they are adjusted independently of each other, but that is what the manual says. I called Leitz. The sales guy was friendly, but I knew I was in trouble when he said he had never heard of Felder. He said he'd only been there 6 months and was still learning. Their websites does show blades for a number of different saw manufacturers and Felder is not one of them. He was not able to locate a small enough scoring blade for the K700S and seemed pretty unsure of himself on everything else. Do any of you guys use Leitz blades on your Felder equipment? If so do you have any specific recommendations? I am open to other blade manufacturers too, not just Leitz. The great re sharpening reputation Leitz has is very appealing though. Thanks everyone, I appreciate this website a great deal. George Gerstner, Ostrander,Ohio

Mac, last I heard, Leitz had closed the Point shop. ?Dave


________________________________
From: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...=
m> on behalf of mac campshure mac512002@... [felder-woodworking]
der-woodworking@...>
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 3:29 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Blades for K700S



Hi G

?

Not trying to sell you on an RL, they have their own set of issues, just not so sure on first generation, new tech dust collector and being a Guinea pig.?

John

JMK Services?

-------- Original message --------
From: "James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>

Date: 2016-12-02 3:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "phil_moger@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?

?

John,

The dust collector is the loudest thing in my garage shop, I just do not feel comfortable when it runs long time, so I do not keep it running even for a few minutes stop.

True, there are concerns for the small capacity.?

Cost wise, Felder sales person told me RL140 is CDN 4800 new, special pricing. I turned down an offer from Felder, 2 year old 3-phase RL160, CDN$5000. Footprint is too big for my garage shop.

James

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:52 PM, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

?

James what other equipment is going to be running that is going to be as quiet as that dust collector, certainly not a saw, ?j/p or shaper. The small capacity would also be a deterent in my mind just to throw a few more negatives especially at roughly 5500.00 CDN before shipping and other associated costs.?

John

JMK Services?

-------- Original message --------
From: "James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2016-12-02 1:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "phil_moger@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?

?

Brain,

I read Bridge City owner John's post, it says the Gryo Air's design idea came from a Korean engineer and his Chinese partner.?

The technology is called Axial Centrifugation which makes flowing dust stream suddenly spins at high speed (over 4000 rpm), through a group of aerodynamic blades which generates very strong centrifugal force on dust particles (70 times bigger force than gravity). The particles are pushed away from air flow center by the centrifugal force and then drop into the dust bins. The clean air remains in flow center and goes forward to the final air filter. This process can successfully separate 99.9% dust particles from air.

John also mentioned that Chinese state agency tested the dust collector, and found the air coming out of the separation chamber is already very clean. This means the separation is very efficient and effective. The following video demos the technology and product.

I am interested in this dust collector. I have a delta 1.5 HP dust collector with a DIY thien baffle and 0.5 micron filter, it works fine, but freaking LOUD in the confined garage. I hesitate to buy Felder RL because I was told by their technician that RL 140 is even louder than my delta dust collector, RL's selling point is clean air. I simply cannot spend thousands to buy a dust collector louder than the current one.?

I need a dust collector which produces clean air like Felder RL, but also very quiet.

James

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

?

Death in the family shut it down years ago. IMO they had the best designed fan on the market, the cast the housings and did all the machine work themselves.

Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

On Dec 2, 2016, at 9:20 AM, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hey Brian IMHO this is what makes the forum great, we can discuss a subject to death, express an opinion, have a bitch session. I wonder what happened to that company/design. I ?know a lot of vendors have pulled their socks up since Bill took at shot at their designs. Unfortunately there is still a lot garbage still out there.?

John

JMK Services?

-------- Original message --------
From: "Brian Lamb?blamb11@...?[felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>?
Date: 2016-12-02 10:56 AM (GMT-05:00)?
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>?
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector??

?

I didn’t mean to start such a back and forth by mentioning a new style DC unit…. but my point here is the dust emitted is most certainly volume when spoken of in mg/m3 and that might not have any bearing on particle size.

For example, say this new fangled unit through it’s “mechanical” design, filters out all particles above10 micron and below 2 micron, just from the nature of it’s design and cyclonic action, then all the filter you would need is a 2 micron and you’d have pretty minimal escape of measurable particles. Now, I’m not saying it does this, just that it could.

A fan and a dust bag system is only going to filter as well as the dust bag can capture. But, when you have some sort of mechanical separation, you might have a whole different sort of clean. Many years ago, I was at a woodworking show and there was a company, Blue Tornado Cyclones I think it was, they had no bag or filter on the exhaust, sucked up a 5 gallon bucket of chips from another show vendor, and they had a black cloth hanging behind the open exhaust pipe…. absolutely no visible dust made it out of the cyclone… so it was obviously pretty decent at filtration mechanically.

Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

On Dec 1, 2016, at 4:33 PM, David Luckensmeyer?dhluckens@...om?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Brian, you’ve hit the nail on the head (as usual). Whether a filter can filter down to a certain size or not is only one half of the story. It’s the percentage efficiency that provides the other half. A filter that can filter down to 5 microns is definitely not good enough. But for filters that can filter down to 1 micron, or 0.5 microns, I’ve never seen one that has 100% efficiency. This means that the filters are not getting all of the particles down to that size.?

I’m no expert, but I think that is why Felder (and others) quote amounts/volumes, rather than sizes?

Warm regards,

David

Dr David Luckensmeyer

Practice Manager

Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd

?

and

Designer and Woodworker

Original Designs in Wood

?

On 2 Dec 2016, at 9:09 AM, Brian Lamb?blamb11@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I guess I should have continued my train of thought…. I didn’t see anything enlightening on the Festool group. I think an engineer for these dust collector companies would have to provide more info. What micron level the filters clean to is totally separate from how many milligrams per cubic meter is emitted from the DC.?

Obviously the less volume is emitted the better, but i think the size of particles has some bearing on health issues too.

Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

On Dec 1, 2016, at 9:06 AM, John Kee?jmkserv@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Brian Lamb?blamb11@...?[felder-woodworking]?<felder-woodworking@...>?wrote:

?

You guys are talking apples to oranges…. the mg/m3 is “Volume”, it’s .05 milligrams per cubic meter. The other is dust particle size, microns. So it depends upon how well the unit separates the dust particle size in the airstream, and then the pass through of the filters will determine the amount in milligrams per cubic meter of air.

Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

On Dec 1, 2016, at 8:24 AM, James Zhu?james.zhu2@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I have no doubt that Felder RL is rated at HEPA level filtration.

Festool dust extractor has 0.3 micron HEPA filter,?.

So 0.05 mg/m? on Gyro Air is at least?HEPA level filtration, otherwise, they will not be able to sell it in Europe.

James

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:14 AM, John Kee?jmkserv@...?[felder-woodworking]?<felder-woodworking@...>?wrote:

?

I remembered there was discussion about this and found this thread on Festool Forum. The long and the short from what I read is that Felders H3 .1mg/m3 translates to HEPA filtration. See post #5 for those interested. Felder rates there filter as Class M which also says Hepa level filtration.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:11 AM, James Zhu?james.zhu2@...?[felder-woodworking]?<felder-woodworking@...>?wrote:

?

John,

I was trying to figure out what exact micron is equivalent to 0.05 mg/m? filter emission rating on the Gryo air dust collector spec?.

II checked Felder's RL160 spec, and its filter emission rating is 0.1?mg/m?,?

This means the air coming out of Gryo air dust collector is even cleaner than Felder RL's.

James

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:35 PM, John?jmkserv@...?[felder-woodworking]?<felder-woodworking@...>?wrote:

?

On Dec 2, 2016, at 11:28 AM, 'James Baker' jamesbaker1@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

?

I read about it in the BC email ad they sent me. Several photos included. In one photo it showed a flex hose connected to the DC and it appeared to be quite small, 4” (but maybe 5”) . If that is correct, then I agree with Dave, going to be hard to capture a large volume of air surrounding your cutting tool.

From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...]
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 11:25 AM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?

The quietness is attractive, but one thing I don't quite understand is the target application. it doesn't seem to have the power (750 cfm) for a central system, and is too large to be portable and move around.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brain,

I read Bridge City owner John's post, it says the Gryo Air's design idea came from a Korean engineer and his Chinese partner.

The technology is called Axial Centrifugation which makes flowing dust stream suddenly spins at high speed (over 4000 rpm), through a group of aerodynamic blades which generates very strong centrifugal force on dust particles (70 times bigger force than gravity). The particles are pushed away from air flow center by the centrifugal force and then drop into the dust bins. The clean air remains in flow center and goes forward to the final air filter. This process can successfully separate 99.9% dust particles from air.

John also mentioned that Chinese state agency tested the dust collector, and found the air coming out of the separation chamber is already very clean. This means the separation is very efficient and effective. The following video demos the technology and product.




I am interested in this dust collector. I have a delta 1.5 HP dust collector with a DIY thien baffle and 0.5 micron filter, it works fine, but freaking LOUD in the confined garage. I hesitate to buy Felder RL because I was told by their technician that RL 140 is even louder than my delta dust collector, RL's selling point is clean air. I simply cannot spend thousands to buy a dust collector louder than the current one.

I need a dust collector which produces clean air like Felder RL, but also very quiet.

James

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


Death in the family shut it down years ago. IMO they had the best designed fan on the market, the cast the housings and did all the machine work themselves.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com




On Dec 2, 2016, at 9:20 AM, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

Hey Brian IMHO this is what makes the forum great, we can discuss a subject to death, express an opinion, have a bitch session. I wonder what happened to that company/design. I know a lot of vendors have pulled their socks up since Bill took at shot at their designs. Unfortunately there is still a lot garbage still out there.



John
JMK Services




-------- Original message --------
From: "Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: 2016-12-02 10:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@...>
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?


I didn’t mean to start such a back and forth by mentioning a new style DC unit…. but my point here is the dust emitted is most certainly volume when spoken of in mg/m3 and that might not have any bearing on particle size.


For example, say this new fangled unit through it’s “mechanical” design, filters out all particles above10 micron and below 2 micron, just from the nature of it’s design and cyclonic action, then all the filter you would need is a 2 micron and you’d have pretty minimal escape of measurable particles. Now, I’m not saying it does this, just that it could.

A fan and a dust bag system is only going to filter as well as the dust bag can capture. But, when you have some sort of mechanical separation, you might have a whole different sort of clean. Many years ago, I was at a woodworking show and there was a company, Blue Tornado Cyclones I think it was, they had no bag or filter on the exhaust, sucked up a 5 gallon bucket of chips from another show vendor, and they had a black cloth hanging behind the open exhaust pipe…. absolutely no visible dust made it out of the cyclone… so it was obviously pretty decent at filtration mechanically.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com




On Dec 1, 2016, at 4:33 PM, David Luckensmeyer dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

Brian, you’ve hit the nail on the head (as usual). Whether a filter can filter down to a certain size or not is only one half of the story. It’s the percentage efficiency that provides the other half. A filter that can filter down to 5 microns is definitely not good enough. But for filters that can filter down to 1 micron, or 0.5 microns, I’ve never seen one that has 100% efficiency. This means that the filters are not getting all of the particles down to that size.


I’m no expert, but I think that is why Felder (and others) quote amounts/volumes, rather than sizes?

Warm regards,
David

Dr David Luckensmeyer
Practice Manager
Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd
melissaluckensmeyer.com.au

and

Designer and Woodworker
Original Designs in Wood
luckensmeyer.com.au

On 2 Dec 2016, at 9:09 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I guess I should have continued my train of thought…. I didn’t see anything enlightening on the Festool group. I think an engineer for these dust collector companies would have to provide more info. What micron level the filters clean to is totally separate from how many milligrams per cubic meter is emitted from the DC.


Obviously the less volume is emitted the better, but i think the size of particles has some bearing on health issues too.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com




On Dec 1, 2016, at 9:06 AM, John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

You guys are talking apples to oranges…. the mg/m3 is “Volume”, it’s .05 milligrams per cubic meter. The other is dust particle size, microns. So it depends upon how well the unit separates the dust particle size in the airstream, and then the pass through of the filters will determine the amount in milligrams per cubic meter of air.


Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com




On Dec 1, 2016, at 8:24 AM, James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I have no doubt that Felder RL is rated at HEPA level filtration.

Festool dust extractor has 0.3 micron HEPA filter, .

So 0.05 mg/m? on Gyro Air is at least HEPA level filtration, otherwise, they will not be able to sell it in Europe.

James


On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:14 AM, John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


I remembered there was discussion about this and found this thread on Festool Forum. The long and the short from what I read is that Felders H3 .1mg/m3 translates to HEPA filtration. See post #5 for those interested. Felder rates there filter as Class M which also says Hepa level filtration.



On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:11 AM, James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


John,

I was trying to figure out what exact micron is equivalent to 0.05 mg/m? filter emission rating on the Gryo air dust collector spec .

II checked Felder's RL160 spec, and its filter emission rating is 0.1 mg/m?,

This means the air coming out of Gryo air dust collector is even cleaner than Felder RL's.

James


On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 12:35 PM, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


I agree James, but in today's world when your trying to sell equipment with a high price tag don't you think that you would him at least checked what the rocket scientists in marketing department were putting out there on the web. LOL.



John
JMK Services




-------- Original message --------
From: "James Zhu james.zhu2@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: 2016-11-29 12:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "phil_moger@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...>
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: See the new dust collector?



I think it is a typo.

If it was 5 micron, I do not think the owner of bridge city would buy it because he is allergic to wood dust as mentioned in the following review of his new dust collector.



James






On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 10:21 AM, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

As the filter appears to be 5 micron, seems more like a large dust distributor than a collector :-) Hope that's a misprint









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John Kee
JMK Services

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John Kee
JMK Services